there are base principles like freedom of speech, freedom of information, and other human rights.
and there will be individual countries coming up with recognizing internet connectivity as a legal right. finland was the first one. european union countries will follow. the next likely ones will be sweden and norway.
eu is that kind of union, aside from britain. britain actually, shouldnt have been in eu in the first place, for they are not compatible with anything eu represents.
i hate this american way of thinking : first sell EVERYthing, including thoughts concepts even basic logic mechanisms to private people, then come up trying to defend their feudal rights over even the logical thought process. yea, it has gone THAT far, if you havent been following the crap that goes on in u.s. patent office - numerous corporations have been trying to patent simple logic arguments and processes as software patents. the implications of this, naturally, as anyone with 2 brain cells can understand, goes WAY beyond the related field or anything else. claiming ownership on a simple process of thought...
eu doesnt have software patents. this kind of skulldiggery wasnt allowed from the start. noone has been allowed to patent 'single click/double click' or so on. therefore, there are no issues with 'lost revenues' in Eu countries.
and there shouldnt be either. because, allowing people to claim ownership of thought phenomenon, and then letting them to attempt exacting tolls on anyone, who, god forbid, attempts to utilize basic principles for manipulating abstract concepts like mankind has done since the dawn of time, is BEYOND stupid, and feudal.
In any case, score one for Eu. whereas legislation to justice, usa has been the total bitch of corporations, and havent even been able to convict confirmed monopolies and fine them, Eu has been making those stubborn, reckless companies adhere to proper business practices and respect the market since a long time. and now there is this. dont be fooled - it wont stop here - the stuff in acta actually contradict with many basic rights and liberties that have been used as the founding principles of modern society since last 300 years, and eu will come up against those too.
however no surprise in there that, the country which comes up with a 'treaty' that tramples the democratic governance processes of not only their own, but other countries, and also attempts to violate and undo basic human rights for self profit of private interest, happened to be united states. tells heaps about how down you, 'the people' let your country go, while being fooled by those alan greenspan hordes. 'let businesses be, so they can come back and fuck you up in the ass and take even your liberties away'...
doesnt matter, still someone would smuggle stuff in after they were discovered, if they havent been smuggled in already.
the point is, practice is real. in brasil numerous tribes are isolated, its forbidden to conduct normal contact with them, and they can only be contacted under supervision and only certain items can be given to them or traded for. one of those tribes were the subject of a national geographic documentary. they also wore t shirts, but that was all they had. and the medicines allowed into the village.
youre missing one thing - just as you can group all homo sapiens sapiens as human, instead of separating and classifying them as black, caucasian, asian, nordic, you can also classify all potential intelligent species as sentients.
chances are high that, if such a concept exists, the aliens would be classifying themselves as 'sentients' as opposed to separate species, just like how we classify ourselves 'human' and work together in the u.n.
if there is mirror imaging as such, it is quite possible that just as how we treat those tribesman as humans, but underdeveloped and needing protection of 'their ways of life', aliens could be treating us as 'sentients' too and think that we need protection for preserving our 'originality'.
it is freaky in that, if so, it means we are getting our logic applied to us. or even, maybe, mysteriously inheriting the logic of our 'overseers'.
if both coincide, than it means we may be denied advanced technology, medicine, and whatnot, just like we deny those stuff to genuine tribes to preserve their 'originality' and their 'way of life'.
it would be rather a whole galactic case of as above as below.
so, the architect does not own copyright on your house.
WHAT IF HE DID ?
whats there from preventing copyright/intellectual property application to ANY idea or concept or creation ?
NOTHING. if enough private interest parties lobby enough, laws will be amended to make them applicable. you have been thinking that it was normal not to have copyrights on house designs or other creations because they were JUST NOT BEING APPLIED, whereas they can.
so, will it be something logical, something defensible, something rational to have such laws then ?
very probably you will find this rather hard to stomach - architects having ongoing royalties on your house every year you use it. and this being incorporated in law.
and it is. you are just incapable from comprehending you are accepting copyrights on 'creative' works, music, software and so on, because those have been enforced laws up to this point. had they not been in existence, you would find proposition of them being applied equally ridiculous.
so then, wake up to the fact. something being put into law does NOT mean that it is logical, civil, modern, and even acceptable. copyrights, patents are such stuff. once you start to hand out 'ownership' of ideas and concepts, the world goes upside down.
maybe because i was a teenager when this song came out, and the song was a chart topper. maybe it was compliant with music tastes of that time. i cant just understand what is so hilarious or odd about this video, and what the point of 'rickrolling' is.
last year, a stunning discovery was made. in brasil, researches discovered a tribe that has never had contact with modern world. its possible that the tribe never had contacts with outsiders for centuries or maybe thousands of years...
when the filming helicopters flew over them, the tribesmen ran around in panic, shot crude arrows at the helicopter, and tried to shoo it away.
......
there will be no contact with this tribe. probably, not even helicopters will pass over them from a distance that they can spot the helicopters. there are international agreements and regulations for preserving the 'ways of life' of such tribes. even there are some who are in contact with modern civilization gets heavy regulation to preserve 'their way of life', only medicine and some vital produce are allowed into their zones. this tribe will probably never contact modern society in any respect, due to these regulations. for the good, or for worse, there are such regulations. they are good in some respects, and bad in some others.
the tribesmen who saw the helicopter and tried to shoo it away will tell what they saw to their fellow tribesmen. some will laugh at them and dont believe, some will believe them, or maybe they will be spoken as 'heroes' for centuries to come, in tribal legends, as warriors who made some 'evil spirits' or devilish monster bird run away. or maybe they will be treated as cuckoos, jokes will be made about them for decades.
what if our planet is in a position like that tribe ? what if, we are being treated as some 'developing culture that should be preserved' as a planet ? what if the odd sightings of 'unidentified flying objects' here and there, and all the ridicule or stampede that accompanies with them is something similar to the event above ? what if ancient legends that tell about brave heroes and warriors and the heavenly foes they vanquished, are similar to the stories now being told about those tribesmen ?
the point is, we do not know whether we are even in a position to formulate and enforce ethics rules about space exploration. we dont even know, whether there are any forces that are hiding themselves from us, just after the fashion of south american governments or u.n., and watching us without we knowing about them. we dont even know whether we will be allowed to explore the space, go a few hops away from our planet and do any serious impact.
nomatter how you approach this, it is food for thought.
so, today, a us controlled, us based corporation disabled 277 frigging domain names owned by foreigners, upon orders of a U.s. court which decided upon a suit filed by a u.s. corporation based in u.s. so, it was for fight against spam, and so it was a 'good' thing. and all the fools are cheering up now.
then tell me how long until some other organization or individual or political party files a lawsuit under u.s. law to do the same thing to foreign domain names on different justification, say, 'copyright' issues, or patent issues, or maybe, political correctness, private interests, or some other godfrigging long forgotten state law (like the ones you can find in conservative states, reminiscent of 19th century), and some judge just happens to give a verdict to that end ?
what do you think will happen to the global and transborder nature of internet at that point ? how will it affect the entire internet, and all the markets and professional fields contained in it ?
nobody on the internet is subject or tributary to u.s. laws, apart from u.s. citizens. it seems that this foolery just happened will start the move towards taking the control of domain names out of u.s.'s hands, through a consortium of countries, or u.n., god knows.
but its evident that it can no longer be let to continue this way, given the rate things are going in u.s., with those private interests trying to control the net through moves against net neutrality, acta, and lobbying like in the recent news about trying to get open source labeled piracy.
In this summary, for instance, the overblown claim is that the software "creates beautiful, original music." What isn't mentioned is that one of the pieces of software (for there are two) is fed copious amounts of human-created source material to work from, and the other creates musical bits but only keeps the ones that the composer likes--hardly an unassisted process.
beethoven, liszt, and their numerous contemporaries fed themselves inane amounts of bach's music, in addition to numerous other composers before their time. they even composed pieces in bach's style, as a tribute to him, leave aside getting a lot of ideas and techniques from him. (especially contrapunctual techniques).
there isnt a difference in between great composers and this software in that regard.
nomatter how the 'art' community howls and barks, nomatter how they harrass you, do NOT delete any of your creations again. whats important is making music, and if ANYthing is making music, or any form of art, the rest of 'art' community can go eat shit.
music is a service to people, to engage emotions in them. it does NOT matter what the source of the music is. anything else is intellectual elitism.
the manner and level of regulations you have are geared towards preventing monopolies, and assuring product/service quality and government conformity. you dont have any regulations against corporations abusing their power.
Ignoring the obvious places, like China, how about if Chile was found to be doing this purely for economic gain? Do you really think the US could do much to Chile? How about Romania or Bulgaria? Would US sanctions mean much to them? I don't think so. Also, no matter what the US did, many countries in Europe would ignore it. Just as we are seeing with Iran and previously with Iraq. If France can get money by selling weapons to Iran, they will do it regardless of what the US thinks of the deal. I seriously doubt the US has the clout at the international level to really make sanctions stick today.
notice, i didnt say 'us'. i said 'world'.
internet is much more an integrated environment than global markets for any other thing. no nation would tolerate such aggression there. us wouldnt even need lift a finger.
that kind of shit gets perpetrated. now, pause for a moment and think, did you EVER read or heard ANYthing like that happening in any other country around the world ? mind that, there are 250+ countries. did ANYone, leave aside 'lobby organizations' or any kind of organization, anywhere around the world, dared even say such bullshit ?
no. but it happened in america. its not just saying either, they are trying to pressurize their government. itis little different than going up saying 'this free people business is blasphemy, it undermines adequacy and effectiveness of noble's rights' back in 18th century.
this has gone beyond the point where wall street scammed entire world. corporations and private interests are now trying to rip people off their freedoms without any shame or any hesitation, and getting away with it. this is an appalling indicator of how bad an environment corporatism and unregulated capitalism can create. at this rate, we will wish that we remained in feudal system. at least in that system the lord was obliged to feed the serfs.
if there is a cyberattack, it will originate from a particular country, or, in the ultimate end, the real culprit will be detected even if they were based in another country.
what do you think will happen then, in the world of internet ? how will entire world react ? do you think everyone will just let it slide, despite internet being a MAJOR economic field and all the countries being interconnected through it, along with all their economic interests ?
we are not living in 19th century anymore. this is no simple shit. any country perpetrating such an 'attack' would face SERIOUS consequences and sanctions from entire world. leave aside international organizations like wto. also leave aside the fact that they will practically getting all their ips banned from cyberspace by individual countries, and therefore totally fucking up their own internet market.
dont buy this cyberwar bullshit. they are just using it as an excuse to justify internet control schemes they want to bring upon you americans. remember how terrorism was used to bring liberties-infringing 'security' measures in all aspects of life. its the same shit, repeating itself.
so he was barking with randal c kennedy persona to sell the data he produced legitimately with his real, craig barth identity.
what the fuck does it matter in regard to data, whether he was putting out a second, fake persona to advertise it ? the data wont change with the nature of advertisement, its still data. if the data is solid, it means it is valid. if the data is supported by similar findings from other sources, then noone can question the data.
he knows a few items like 3 strikes, mandatory isp policing and surveillance and sentencing, and these all conflict with fundamental laws, not only in eu, but also international. human rights declaration, geneva convention, free speech principles. and he speaks on those.
if you dont know enough about europe, these laws and rules are fundamental to everything in eu.
i have done every single shit that can be done in wow.
pvp wasnt 'fixable' with a good guild organization. guild organization requires schedules, timetables, arrangements, and everyone sticking to all of these to work. and even with ALL that you couldnt provide all day long 40v40 pvp action on a continuous basis, nomatter how hard you tried.
pvp battlegrounds provide that. it doesnt take total of 10 seconds from clicking the wow icon on your desktop until you get into alterac valley itself. (not the queue, the battleground itself).
thats not world pvp. what you are talking about 1-2 people jumping on each other. you dont need a fucking massively multiplayer game for it. you can just log into any counterstrike server and get the exact same thing.
what was that ? 10 minutes wait to gather some 10-20 or so people to create a raid, 10 minutes to go to the location of the raid, 10 minutes of killing lowbies there until the high levels come, 10 minutes of killing 2-3 high levels until a serious raid forms up from the other side and arrives in your location, then 30 seconds of pvp, death, 5 minutes of running from gy, rezzing and repreparing. after 10 minutes, going back again.
all that 1-2 hour hassle for only a total of 5-10 minutes of pvp. fuck that
there is a reason why pvp battlegrounds are accommodating over 8000 players at godforsaken 03.30 at night in eu servers alone - instant, incessant action.
Slashdot Mirror
there are base principles like freedom of speech, freedom of information, and other human rights.
and there will be individual countries coming up with recognizing internet connectivity as a legal right. finland was the first one. european union countries will follow. the next likely ones will be sweden and norway.
eu is that kind of union, aside from britain. britain actually, shouldnt have been in eu in the first place, for they are not compatible with anything eu represents.
i hate this american way of thinking : first sell EVERYthing, including thoughts concepts even basic logic mechanisms to private people, then come up trying to defend their feudal rights over even the logical thought process. yea, it has gone THAT far, if you havent been following the crap that goes on in u.s. patent office - numerous corporations have been trying to patent simple logic arguments and processes as software patents. the implications of this, naturally, as anyone with 2 brain cells can understand, goes WAY beyond the related field or anything else. claiming ownership on a simple process of thought ...
eu doesnt have software patents. this kind of skulldiggery wasnt allowed from the start. noone has been allowed to patent 'single click/double click' or so on. therefore, there are no issues with 'lost revenues' in Eu countries.
and there shouldnt be either. because, allowing people to claim ownership of thought phenomenon, and then letting them to attempt exacting tolls on anyone, who, god forbid, attempts to utilize basic principles for manipulating abstract concepts like mankind has done since the dawn of time, is BEYOND stupid, and feudal.
In any case, score one for Eu. whereas legislation to justice, usa has been the total bitch of corporations, and havent even been able to convict confirmed monopolies and fine them, Eu has been making those stubborn, reckless companies adhere to proper business practices and respect the market since a long time. and now there is this. dont be fooled - it wont stop here - the stuff in acta actually contradict with many basic rights and liberties that have been used as the founding principles of modern society since last 300 years, and eu will come up against those too.
however no surprise in there that, the country which comes up with a 'treaty' that tramples the democratic governance processes of not only their own, but other countries, and also attempts to violate and undo basic human rights for self profit of private interest, happened to be united states. tells heaps about how down you, 'the people' let your country go, while being fooled by those alan greenspan hordes. 'let businesses be, so they can come back and fuck you up in the ass and take even your liberties away' ...
huh ? so you gone nuts over javascript. is it ?
doesnt matter, still someone would smuggle stuff in after they were discovered, if they havent been smuggled in already.
the point is, practice is real. in brasil numerous tribes are isolated, its forbidden to conduct normal contact with them, and they can only be contacted under supervision and only certain items can be given to them or traded for. one of those tribes were the subject of a national geographic documentary. they also wore t shirts, but that was all they had. and the medicines allowed into the village.
youre missing one thing - just as you can group all homo sapiens sapiens as human, instead of separating and classifying them as black, caucasian, asian, nordic, you can also classify all potential intelligent species as sentients.
chances are high that, if such a concept exists, the aliens would be classifying themselves as 'sentients' as opposed to separate species, just like how we classify ourselves 'human' and work together in the u.n.
if there is mirror imaging as such, it is quite possible that just as how we treat those tribesman as humans, but underdeveloped and needing protection of 'their ways of life', aliens could be treating us as 'sentients' too and think that we need protection for preserving our 'originality'.
it is freaky in that, if so, it means we are getting our logic applied to us. or even, maybe, mysteriously inheriting the logic of our 'overseers'.
if both coincide, than it means we may be denied advanced technology, medicine, and whatnot, just like we deny those stuff to genuine tribes to preserve their 'originality' and their 'way of life'.
it would be rather a whole galactic case of as above as below.
so, the architect does not own copyright on your house.
WHAT IF HE DID ?
whats there from preventing copyright/intellectual property application to ANY idea or concept or creation ?
NOTHING. if enough private interest parties lobby enough, laws will be amended to make them applicable. you have been thinking that it was normal not to have copyrights on house designs or other creations because they were JUST NOT BEING APPLIED, whereas they can.
so, will it be something logical, something defensible, something rational to have such laws then ?
very probably you will find this rather hard to stomach - architects having ongoing royalties on your house every year you use it. and this being incorporated in law.
and it is. you are just incapable from comprehending you are accepting copyrights on 'creative' works, music, software and so on, because those have been enforced laws up to this point. had they not been in existence, you would find proposition of them being applied equally ridiculous.
so then, wake up to the fact. something being put into law does NOT mean that it is logical, civil, modern, and even acceptable. copyrights, patents are such stuff. once you start to hand out 'ownership' of ideas and concepts, the world goes upside down.
maybe because i was a teenager when this song came out, and the song was a chart topper. maybe it was compliant with music tastes of that time. i cant just understand what is so hilarious or odd about this video, and what the point of 'rickrolling' is.
last year, a stunning discovery was made. in brasil, researches discovered a tribe that has never had contact with modern world. its possible that the tribe never had contacts with outsiders for centuries or maybe thousands of years ...
when the filming helicopters flew over them, the tribesmen ran around in panic, shot crude arrows at the helicopter, and tried to shoo it away.
there will be no contact with this tribe. probably, not even helicopters will pass over them from a distance that they can spot the helicopters. there are international agreements and regulations for preserving the 'ways of life' of such tribes. even there are some who are in contact with modern civilization gets heavy regulation to preserve 'their way of life', only medicine and some vital produce are allowed into their zones. this tribe will probably never contact modern society in any respect, due to these regulations. for the good, or for worse, there are such regulations. they are good in some respects, and bad in some others.
the tribesmen who saw the helicopter and tried to shoo it away will tell what they saw to their fellow tribesmen. some will laugh at them and dont believe, some will believe them, or maybe they will be spoken as 'heroes' for centuries to come, in tribal legends, as warriors who made some 'evil spirits' or devilish monster bird run away. or maybe they will be treated as cuckoos, jokes will be made about them for decades.
what if our planet is in a position like that tribe ? what if, we are being treated as some 'developing culture that should be preserved' as a planet ? what if the odd sightings of 'unidentified flying objects' here and there, and all the ridicule or stampede that accompanies with them is something similar to the event above ? what if ancient legends that tell about brave heroes and warriors and the heavenly foes they vanquished, are similar to the stories now being told about those tribesmen ?
the point is, we do not know whether we are even in a position to formulate and enforce ethics rules about space exploration. we dont even know, whether there are any forces that are hiding themselves from us, just after the fashion of south american governments or u.n., and watching us without we knowing about them. we dont even know whether we will be allowed to explore the space, go a few hops away from our planet and do any serious impact.
nomatter how you approach this, it is food for thought.
so, today, a us controlled, us based corporation disabled 277 frigging domain names owned by foreigners, upon orders of a U.s. court which decided upon a suit filed by a u.s. corporation based in u.s. so, it was for fight against spam, and so it was a 'good' thing. and all the fools are cheering up now.
then tell me how long until some other organization or individual or political party files a lawsuit under u.s. law to do the same thing to foreign domain names on different justification, say, 'copyright' issues, or patent issues, or maybe, political correctness, private interests, or some other godfrigging long forgotten state law (like the ones you can find in conservative states, reminiscent of 19th century), and some judge just happens to give a verdict to that end ?
what do you think will happen to the global and transborder nature of internet at that point ? how will it affect the entire internet, and all the markets and professional fields contained in it ?
nobody on the internet is subject or tributary to u.s. laws, apart from u.s. citizens. it seems that this foolery just happened will start the move towards taking the control of domain names out of u.s.'s hands, through a consortium of countries, or u.n., god knows.
but its evident that it can no longer be let to continue this way, given the rate things are going in u.s., with those private interests trying to control the net through moves against net neutrality, acta, and lobbying like in the recent news about trying to get open source labeled piracy.
anyone who loves bach should listen these. you wont believe these are synthesized, computer generated music.
online at his site. check the link :
http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/5000.html they are downloadable
and here you can check other emmy pieces http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/works2.htm
In this summary, for instance, the overblown claim is that the software "creates beautiful, original music." What isn't mentioned is that one of the pieces of software (for there are two) is fed copious amounts of human-created source material to work from, and the other creates musical bits but only keeps the ones that the composer likes--hardly an unassisted process.
beethoven, liszt, and their numerous contemporaries fed themselves inane amounts of bach's music, in addition to numerous other composers before their time. they even composed pieces in bach's style, as a tribute to him, leave aside getting a lot of ideas and techniques from him. (especially contrapunctual techniques).
there isnt a difference in between great composers and this software in that regard.
nomatter how the 'art' community howls and barks, nomatter how they harrass you, do NOT delete any of your creations again. whats important is making music, and if ANYthing is making music, or any form of art, the rest of 'art' community can go eat shit.
music is a service to people, to engage emotions in them. it does NOT matter what the source of the music is. anything else is intellectual elitism.
the manner and level of regulations you have are geared towards preventing monopolies, and assuring product/service quality and government conformity. you dont have any regulations against corporations abusing their power.
there wont be shift key usage in my posts. either deal with it or just dont read my posts. noone is forcing anyone to read.
Ignoring the obvious places, like China, how about if Chile was found to be doing this purely for economic gain? Do you really think the US could do much to Chile? How about Romania or Bulgaria? Would US sanctions mean much to them? I don't think so. Also, no matter what the US did, many countries in Europe would ignore it. Just as we are seeing with Iran and previously with Iraq. If France can get money by selling weapons to Iran, they will do it regardless of what the US thinks of the deal. I seriously doubt the US has the clout at the international level to really make sanctions stick today.
notice, i didnt say 'us'. i said 'world'.
internet is much more an integrated environment than global markets for any other thing. no nation would tolerate such aggression there. us wouldnt even need lift a finger.
that kind of shit gets perpetrated. now, pause for a moment and think, did you EVER read or heard ANYthing like that happening in any other country around the world ? mind that, there are 250+ countries. did ANYone, leave aside 'lobby organizations' or any kind of organization, anywhere around the world, dared even say such bullshit ?
no. but it happened in america. its not just saying either, they are trying to pressurize their government. itis little different than going up saying 'this free people business is blasphemy, it undermines adequacy and effectiveness of noble's rights' back in 18th century.
this has gone beyond the point where wall street scammed entire world. corporations and private interests are now trying to rip people off their freedoms without any shame or any hesitation, and getting away with it. this is an appalling indicator of how bad an environment corporatism and unregulated capitalism can create. at this rate, we will wish that we remained in feudal system. at least in that system the lord was obliged to feed the serfs.
if there is a cyberattack, it will originate from a particular country, or, in the ultimate end, the real culprit will be detected even if they were based in another country.
what do you think will happen then, in the world of internet ? how will entire world react ? do you think everyone will just let it slide, despite internet being a MAJOR economic field and all the countries being interconnected through it, along with all their economic interests ?
we are not living in 19th century anymore. this is no simple shit. any country perpetrating such an 'attack' would face SERIOUS consequences and sanctions from entire world. leave aside international organizations like wto. also leave aside the fact that they will practically getting all their ips banned from cyberspace by individual countries, and therefore totally fucking up their own internet market.
dont buy this cyberwar bullshit. they are just using it as an excuse to justify internet control schemes they want to bring upon you americans. remember how terrorism was used to bring liberties-infringing 'security' measures in all aspects of life. its the same shit, repeating itself.
do NOT buy it.
so he was barking with randal c kennedy persona to sell the data he produced legitimately with his real, craig barth identity.
what the fuck does it matter in regard to data, whether he was putting out a second, fake persona to advertise it ? the data wont change with the nature of advertisement, its still data. if the data is solid, it means it is valid. if the data is supported by similar findings from other sources, then noone can question the data.
he knows a few items like 3 strikes, mandatory isp policing and surveillance and sentencing, and these all conflict with fundamental laws, not only in eu, but also international. human rights declaration, geneva convention, free speech principles. and he speaks on those.
if you dont know enough about europe, these laws and rules are fundamental to everything in eu.
i have done every single shit that can be done in wow.
pvp wasnt 'fixable' with a good guild organization. guild organization requires schedules, timetables, arrangements, and everyone sticking to all of these to work. and even with ALL that you couldnt provide all day long 40v40 pvp action on a continuous basis, nomatter how hard you tried.
pvp battlegrounds provide that. it doesnt take total of 10 seconds from clicking the wow icon on your desktop until you get into alterac valley itself. (not the queue, the battleground itself).
you dont need MASSIVELY multiplayer for counterstrike.
sort that's fundamentally different from the FPS experience: It's spontaneous, it crops up as one single element of a bigger experience
basically you jump on people unawares. thats it. you can do it in counterstrike too.
thats not world pvp. what you are talking about 1-2 people jumping on each other. you dont need a fucking massively multiplayer game for it. you can just log into any counterstrike server and get the exact same thing.
what was that ? 10 minutes wait to gather some 10-20 or so people to create a raid, 10 minutes to go to the location of the raid, 10 minutes of killing lowbies there until the high levels come, 10 minutes of killing 2-3 high levels until a serious raid forms up from the other side and arrives in your location, then 30 seconds of pvp, death, 5 minutes of running from gy, rezzing and repreparing. after 10 minutes, going back again.
all that 1-2 hour hassle for only a total of 5-10 minutes of pvp. fuck that
there is a reason why pvp battlegrounds are accommodating over 8000 players at godforsaken 03.30 at night in eu servers alone - instant, incessant action.