Kinda how Apple does all the time? (See: iOS 7+, OS X 10.10+, Photos, iTunes / Apple Music, etc)
I've had enough DECADES of experience with both MS and Apple to know that, MOST of the time, Apple tends to temper their questionable decisions due to "feedback", and, as a developer of Windows Application Software, I ALSO know that, MOST of the time, MS blithely IGNORES "feedback".
Microsoft never achieved some sort of nirvanic perfection with Windows XP or Windows 7. The start menu was a refinement process that began in 1995, but just because it's old and familiar doesn't mean it ever became all that great. The only way to move forward is to try new things - even awful things. Any company that doesn't is dying.
I agree that trying new things is good. HOWEVER, companies the size of Microsoft usually try them out internally on FOCUS GROUPS, not the ENTIRE USERBASE.
And PLEASE don't try to tell me that MS Focus-Grouped "Metro". That, or they systematically IGNORED the members of said group.
There are no other plausible explanations for that abomination of a UI to actually make it to market. None.
I mean, FFS, it was SO bad that they even omitted the name "Windows" (or was it "Microsoft"?) from all their advertising during that time, and BURIED the name "Metro" Fast, Fast, Fast! Remember?
even Apple has lots of faults, starting with keychords that would make an emacs user choke (e.g. the four-key chords for a screen snapshot), or the fact that in certain basic views in the Folder, it's impossible to create a new directory, you have to switch to another view for the 'New folder' button to appear.
But how many times do you actually do a Screenshot without then later editing it? Easier to launch Preview (or Grab), and do your ScreenCap from there. That way (at least with Preview) you can do annotation/manipulation of the image without having to save/paste your screenshot into another Application.
Even OSX has gone this way with Yosemite (though maybe it went a bit too far).
Jeezus! How can you even compare The-UI-Formerly-Known-As-Metro with the "flattening" in Yosemite.
Don't get me wrong; I don't like it much either; but at least they didn't do anything CLOSE to the "let's just throw away then ENTIRE GUI and replace it with a bad mashup of Playschool Tiles and Windows 3.1's GUI.
Those nice interface special effects also demand too much of the crappy little Lower Slobbovian PCs that so many people try to shoehorn Windows into. To get their treasured student copy of Word 2007 to come up before Tuesday, they have to rummage through Control Panel for ways of turning the special effects off.
As I have said before, I believe it is to spare some battery life on mobile devices.
It is complaining like this that most likely caused Microsoft to dial back the Metro/Modern UI presence, and give us the start menu back.
Actually, what is amazing is that MS actually listened, at least somewhat.
The bad old MS (not to say they still aren't still quite a bit "bad") would have just shoved this down everyone's throats come Hell or highwater. Seen them do it time and time again.
I personally find Apple actually on the ball when it comes to getting stuff fixed. MS was fast patching the font bug, but Apple hasn't been a slouch getting updates out either.
Now, if Apple could actually start trying to get their foot in the door in the enterprise, things would be interesting.
Yes, I hope that the ghost of the dear-departed Mr. Jobs doesn't prevent Mssr. Cook from seeing that.
Maybe even bring back a version of XServe, and (finally!) give OS X Server some much-needed love! I mean, FFS, it's a damned Certified UNIX OS! Just because it uses a different GUI and is closer to BSD than it is to Linux (no wars, please!!! I said "CLOSER"), and that parts are closed-source should be of no moment.
But yes, you'd need to be at the box locally for this to be worrisome. I work at a university who's still in the process to migrating people from MAC to PC
Pray tell, how many executive-level blowjobs from the MS Reps. did THAT take?
Or did the student body unanimously vote to ditch OS X for the wonderful user experience that is The-Interface-Formerly-Known-As-Metro?
Except if you have SuperUser access, there are no sandboxes... Or did you not understand the definition of SuperUser?
Oh wait, you're defending them... of course you are.
Wrong. There are still Application sandboxes, regardless of the user's credentials. Some apps that need to have semi-permanent sudo permissions require you to login with them everytime you launch the app, or sometimes will store an Admin password that you supply one time.
And in the case of "root", pretty much NO Macs have the login for "root" enabled. So that's right out.
Hopefully Apple can issue a fix in a short amount of time, because this is an easy exploit to use, and combined with something like a broken Java variant, could be used via the Web browser to hijack the entire box.
According to TFS, the exploit is already patched in betas of El Capitan, and according to TFA, there is already a patch available (albeit not from Apple itself) for Yosemite, where the vulnerability first appeared.
If you don't have physical security and there is any kind of local threat of compromise, you could become toast at any time. These kinds of "threats" are insignificant in the larger scheme of things. If you need local security, the only sufficient mechanism is to physically deny access to the computer.
And don't forget that pretty much ANY *NIX OS would fall prey to this type of exploit, right? Once you have physical access, pretty much all bets are off with a sufficiently-talented attacker.
Why not just use the root account and edit the sudoers file directly? Seems like fussing about with distros is a bit of yak shaving.
Switch accounts, login as root. All my Macs have a root account with a passwd set, like something a sysadmin would do....
You do have a root account with a passwd set, don't you?!
Nearly zero Macs have login for root enabled. It's part of their security measures. You can do it; but almost no one ever does, instead relying on sudo to temporarily grant those privileges to those on the sudoers list.
Now they're currently trying to figure down how to get a live distro running that can mount Mac filesystems so they can fix that. It's kind of hilarious from my POV..
I thought Macs still supported target disk mode. So all you have to do is boot holding T while it's connected via Firewire or Thunderbolt to another Mac/PC and its internal drive shows up as a disk drive.
I guess if they want to waste a day using the wrong tools, they can go ahead.
They do. I thought it went away with FireWire; but it didn't. In fact, I think you can do it over WiFi, too, using AirDrop. That's exactly the way to do it. Just use another Mac.
In general I think you're correct. Most people are pretty dumb and likely better off in the walled garden so they can't hurt themselves. Similarly, dumb people are better off with a foam hammer than a real hammer, even if it's less useful at least they can't nail themselves to their toilet.
See? There you go, blaming the user. Typical Slashtard.
There is a BIG difference between being "dumb" and being "ignorant".
If I sat you down in the control room of a jet fighter, or a helicopter, I would bet that (assuming you aren't skilled in any of those) you wouldn't be able to successfully land any of them. Why? Because you simply haven't had to learn those skills to navigate your particular slice of the universe. Does that make you "dumb"?
Not everyone is a computer expert. And that is EXACTLY what it takes to determine which (if any) of a set of permissions an app might need, if you are IGNORANT of the rather dire consequences of granting just ONE of the wrong permissions.
Wow!!! You mean that intrinsic APPS can't even be UPDATED on Android without updating the OS???
Wow. Just. Wow.
You mean just like iOS? Ever seen a Safari update outside an OS update? Mail? Messages? Shall I go on?
What? Did an eight-year-old write Android? Is that why it has that ridiculous, childish name? Why not just call it "Buzz Lightyear" and be done with it?
Pot, kettle. Black. macs4all, you're a notorious flamer and troll around here, but even I am perplexed at this post of yours. Normally your unwavering defense of all things Apple is at least rooted in some understanding of the underlying technology, even if misguided. But this is horrifically bad if you honestly think iOS is different from Android in this regard.
I will agree that it is pretty-much unheard of for Apple to update intrinsic iOS Apps outside the auspices of an OS Update, they instead will often "spawn" an iOS "point-release" update for the SOLE (or at least primary) purpose of updating an intrinsic app or framework. What you are suggesting is that Apple only updates things on major iOS version-changes. By comparison, there is absolutely NO history of a "Jelly Bean.1" in the Android ecosystem. None. And Apple DOES, on occasion, but very rarely, update iOS Apps without an OS update; however, I admit they tend to simply spawn "Point Releases" of iOS instead.
And on OS X, they update included Applications and Frameworks ALL the time without waiting for even a minor "Point Release" of OS X.
Do you think that calling something "i" as in "myself" plus "general name for the product" isn't ridiculous? Why not? Do you perceive it as mature (adult-like)?
LOL!
The "i" prefix on Several Apple products in the late 1990s and early 2000s is not indicative of the personal pronoun "I" (notice the capitalization), as in "I, Robot", but rather, the "i" in "Internet" (small "i"). Silly as it seems now, the fact that, in 1999, you could take an iMac (the first "i" Product") out of the box and connect (via dialup, using the iMac's built-in MODEM) to the interwebs in two easy steps in about five minutes was quite a revelation. Apple even had a popular TV ad and a catchphrase ("There is no step 3") revolving around this.
After the iMac single-handedly put Apple back on the map (and launched the USB peripheral industry), Steve Jobs and Apple used the name recognition of the "i" in "iMac" to cause consumers to identify "i" products as Apple products. And Apple products were (and are) "cool" products in the eyes of most consumers. Not making any judgments here, just observations. And the fact that, to this day, many, many other companies have named goods and services with the "i" prefix, despite Apple's efforts to the contrary, clearly shows the power of that simple, one-character "branding".
Of course, all successful marketing gimmicks eventually become a caricature of themselves, and so Apple has all-but abandoned the iconic "i" prefix on newer product lines, such as the Apple Watch. But as brand-identity goes, that little "i" has served Apple QUITE well; but it has nothing to do with conceit ("I, Phone!"), but rather, harkens back to a time when painless internet connectivity was a big selling feature.
The difference being, you actively installed those apps and explicitly gave them those permissions. Not the same boat, not even the same ocean.
Blame the User. The last bastion of the technically-challenged.
In case you didn't notice: The percentage of Android Users that are up to par with the likes of people who frequent Slashdot or Stack Overflow, etc. is vanishingly small. So, simply dismissing those people with a conceited and immature wave-of-the-hand is most unhelpful to the entire Android "community".
You want people to start flocking to iOS? Keep that attitude up, asswipe.
The stock browser is a primary avenue of exploit for this malware. Stock lives in/system where it is installed read-only.
This was a colossally foolish thing to do. Browser libraries, executables, and sundry components MUST retain the ability to receive patches.
LD_LIBRARY_PATH should point to/data/lib, then resolve to/system/lib only if an override library is not installed, allowing update capability for stock webkit.
Wow!!! You mean that intrinsic APPS can't even be UPDATED on Android without updating the OS???
Wow. Just. Wow.
What? Did an eight-year-old write Android? Is that why it has that ridiculous, childish name? Why not just call it "Buzz Lightyear" and be done with it?
Apple does stop supporting. My (no longer used) iPad is stuck on iOS 5.x.
He never said they don't stop supporting. Only that they do so ONLY when the Hardware simply makes it impractical.
You have a first-generation iPad. Know how I know that? Because EVERY other version of the iPad (including my iPad 2nd gen) IS still supported (haven't checked as to whether that is true for iOS 9; but so far, it has been supported). In fact, Apple recently released a "point-release" for iOS8 that, among other things, was specifically designed to improve performance on iPad 2.
NOBODY in the Android-universe does that, with the possible exception of Google with Nexus. And they do that only because it is their Reference Platform for Android.
Walled garden no bugs or exploits. It only means now you're even more dependent on a company to fix the exploits and bugs because it's much harder to find workarounds or fix them yourself.
However, Android does have a permission model that is all or nothing, where a fleshlight app can ask for everything under the sun and there is no "allow, but not with those permissions" available.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm really curious about your opinion on Apple device's names.
It was an informed opinion. Thanks. Very interesting. Would mod you up if I could.
And thank YOU for allowing facts to sway your opinion. So rare on Slashdot!!!
Kinda how Apple does all the time? (See: iOS 7+, OS X 10.10+, Photos, iTunes / Apple Music, etc)
I've had enough DECADES of experience with both MS and Apple to know that, MOST of the time, Apple tends to temper their questionable decisions due to "feedback", and, as a developer of Windows Application Software, I ALSO know that, MOST of the time, MS blithely IGNORES "feedback".
Microsoft never achieved some sort of nirvanic perfection with Windows XP or Windows 7. The start menu was a refinement process that began in 1995, but just because it's old and familiar doesn't mean it ever became all that great. The only way to move forward is to try new things - even awful things. Any company that doesn't is dying.
I agree that trying new things is good. HOWEVER, companies the size of Microsoft usually try them out internally on FOCUS GROUPS, not the ENTIRE USERBASE.
And PLEASE don't try to tell me that MS Focus-Grouped "Metro". That, or they systematically IGNORED the members of said group.
There are no other plausible explanations for that abomination of a UI to actually make it to market. None.
I mean, FFS, it was SO bad that they even omitted the name "Windows" (or was it "Microsoft"?) from all their advertising during that time, and BURIED the name "Metro" Fast, Fast, Fast! Remember?
even Apple has lots of faults, starting with keychords that would make an emacs user choke (e.g. the four-key chords for a screen snapshot), or the fact that in certain basic views in the Folder, it's impossible to create a new directory, you have to switch to another view for the 'New folder' button to appear.
But how many times do you actually do a Screenshot without then later editing it? Easier to launch Preview (or Grab), and do your ScreenCap from there. That way (at least with Preview) you can do annotation/manipulation of the image without having to save/paste your screenshot into another Application.
And if you know the most-excellent GROUP of Keyboard Shortcut(s) for Screen Capture (and, by the way, it's a THREE-key, not FOUR-key Shortcut), you should CERTAINLY know the Keyboard Shortcut for "New Folder" in Finder (Command-Shift-N).
I never thought I'd see the day when a Slashdotter complained about HAVING Keyboard Shortcuts. Is that the Four Horsemen I hear???
It's not "more modern looking", it's simply a modern designer trend. There's a really big difference.
This. Exactly. This. This. A Thousand-Times THIS!!!
Even OSX has gone this way with Yosemite (though maybe it went a bit too far).
Jeezus! How can you even compare The-UI-Formerly-Known-As-Metro with the "flattening" in Yosemite.
Don't get me wrong; I don't like it much either; but at least they didn't do anything CLOSE to the "let's just throw away then ENTIRE GUI and replace it with a bad mashup of Playschool Tiles and Windows 3.1's GUI.
I though on Slashdot we hated Eye Candy?
No, we just hate anything new and/or from Microsoft.
But not as much as "we" hate anything from Apple.
Those nice interface special effects also demand too much of the crappy little Lower Slobbovian PCs that so many people try to shoehorn Windows into. To get their treasured student copy of Word 2007 to come up before Tuesday, they have to rummage through Control Panel for ways of turning the special effects off.
As I have said before, I believe it is to spare some battery life on mobile devices.
It is complaining like this that most likely caused Microsoft to dial back the Metro/Modern UI presence, and give us the start menu back.
Actually, what is amazing is that MS actually listened, at least somewhat.
The bad old MS (not to say they still aren't still quite a bit "bad") would have just shoved this down everyone's throats come Hell or highwater. Seen them do it time and time again.
Cowardly AC here...
I personally find Apple actually on the ball when it comes to getting stuff fixed. MS was fast patching the font bug, but Apple hasn't been a slouch getting updates out either.
Now, if Apple could actually start trying to get their foot in the door in the enterprise, things would be interesting.
Yes, I hope that the ghost of the dear-departed Mr. Jobs doesn't prevent Mssr. Cook from seeing that.
Maybe even bring back a version of XServe, and (finally!) give OS X Server some much-needed love! I mean, FFS, it's a damned Certified UNIX OS! Just because it uses a different GUI and is closer to BSD than it is to Linux (no wars, please!!! I said "CLOSER"), and that parts are closed-source should be of no moment.
But yes, you'd need to be at the box locally for this to be worrisome. I work at a university who's still in the process to migrating people from MAC to PC
Pray tell, how many executive-level blowjobs from the MS Reps. did THAT take?
Or did the student body unanimously vote to ditch OS X for the wonderful user experience that is The-Interface-Formerly-Known-As-Metro?
Except if you have SuperUser access, there are no sandboxes... Or did you not understand the definition of SuperUser?
Oh wait, you're defending them... of course you are.
Wrong. There are still Application sandboxes, regardless of the user's credentials. Some apps that need to have semi-permanent sudo permissions require you to login with them everytime you launch the app, or sometimes will store an Admin password that you supply one time.
And in the case of "root", pretty much NO Macs have the login for "root" enabled. So that's right out.
Hopefully Apple can issue a fix in a short amount of time, because this is an easy exploit to use, and combined with something like a broken Java variant, could be used via the Web browser to hijack the entire box.
According to TFS, the exploit is already patched in betas of El Capitan, and according to TFA, there is already a patch available (albeit not from Apple itself) for Yosemite, where the vulnerability first appeared.
If you don't have physical security and there is any kind of local threat of compromise, you could become toast at any time. These kinds of "threats" are insignificant in the larger scheme of things. If you need local security, the only sufficient mechanism is to physically deny access to the computer.
And don't forget that pretty much ANY *NIX OS would fall prey to this type of exploit, right? Once you have physical access, pretty much all bets are off with a sufficiently-talented attacker.
Why not just use the root account and edit the sudoers file directly? Seems like fussing about with distros is a bit of yak shaving. Switch accounts, login as root. All my Macs have a root account with a passwd set, like something a sysadmin would do.... You do have a root account with a passwd set, don't you?!
Nearly zero Macs have login for root enabled. It's part of their security measures. You can do it; but almost no one ever does, instead relying on sudo to temporarily grant those privileges to those on the sudoers list.
Now they're currently trying to figure down how to get a live distro running that can mount Mac filesystems so they can fix that. It's kind of hilarious from my POV..
I thought Macs still supported target disk mode. So all you have to do is boot holding T while it's connected via Firewire or Thunderbolt to another Mac/PC and its internal drive shows up as a disk drive.
I guess if they want to waste a day using the wrong tools, they can go ahead.
They do. I thought it went away with FireWire; but it didn't. In fact, I think you can do it over WiFi, too, using AirDrop. That's exactly the way to do it. Just use another Mac.
In general I think you're correct. Most people are pretty dumb and likely better off in the walled garden so they can't hurt themselves. Similarly, dumb people are better off with a foam hammer than a real hammer, even if it's less useful at least they can't nail themselves to their toilet.
See? There you go, blaming the user. Typical Slashtard.
There is a BIG difference between being "dumb" and being "ignorant".
If I sat you down in the control room of a jet fighter, or a helicopter, I would bet that (assuming you aren't skilled in any of those) you wouldn't be able to successfully land any of them. Why? Because you simply haven't had to learn those skills to navigate your particular slice of the universe. Does that make you "dumb"?
Not everyone is a computer expert. And that is EXACTLY what it takes to determine which (if any) of a set of permissions an app might need, if you are IGNORANT of the rather dire consequences of granting just ONE of the wrong permissions.
Wow!!! You mean that intrinsic APPS can't even be UPDATED on Android without updating the OS???
Wow. Just. Wow.
You mean just like iOS? Ever seen a Safari update outside an OS update? Mail? Messages? Shall I go on?
What? Did an eight-year-old write Android? Is that why it has that ridiculous, childish name? Why not just call it "Buzz Lightyear" and be done with it?
Pot, kettle. Black. macs4all, you're a notorious flamer and troll around here, but even I am perplexed at this post of yours. Normally your unwavering defense of all things Apple is at least rooted in some understanding of the underlying technology, even if misguided. But this is horrifically bad if you honestly think iOS is different from Android in this regard.
I will agree that it is pretty-much unheard of for Apple to update intrinsic iOS Apps outside the auspices of an OS Update, they instead will often "spawn" an iOS "point-release" update for the SOLE (or at least primary) purpose of updating an intrinsic app or framework. What you are suggesting is that Apple only updates things on major iOS version-changes. By comparison, there is absolutely NO history of a "Jelly Bean.1" in the Android ecosystem. None. And Apple DOES, on occasion, but very rarely, update iOS Apps without an OS update; however, I admit they tend to simply spawn "Point Releases" of iOS instead.
And on OS X, they update included Applications and Frameworks ALL the time without waiting for even a minor "Point Release" of OS X.
Do you think that calling something "i" as in "myself" plus "general name for the product" isn't ridiculous? Why not? Do you perceive it as mature (adult-like)?
LOL!
The "i" prefix on Several Apple products in the late 1990s and early 2000s is not indicative of the personal pronoun "I" (notice the capitalization), as in "I, Robot", but rather, the "i" in "Internet" (small "i"). Silly as it seems now, the fact that, in 1999, you could take an iMac (the first "i" Product") out of the box and connect (via dialup, using the iMac's built-in MODEM) to the interwebs in two easy steps in about five minutes was quite a revelation. Apple even had a popular TV ad and a catchphrase ("There is no step 3") revolving around this.
After the iMac single-handedly put Apple back on the map (and launched the USB peripheral industry), Steve Jobs and Apple used the name recognition of the "i" in "iMac" to cause consumers to identify "i" products as Apple products. And Apple products were (and are) "cool" products in the eyes of most consumers. Not making any judgments here, just observations. And the fact that, to this day, many, many other companies have named goods and services with the "i" prefix, despite Apple's efforts to the contrary, clearly shows the power of that simple, one-character "branding".
Of course, all successful marketing gimmicks eventually become a caricature of themselves, and so Apple has all-but abandoned the iconic "i" prefix on newer product lines, such as the Apple Watch. But as brand-identity goes, that little "i" has served Apple QUITE well; but it has nothing to do with conceit ("I, Phone!"), but rather, harkens back to a time when painless internet connectivity was a big selling feature.
The difference being, you actively installed those apps and explicitly gave them those permissions. Not the same boat, not even the same ocean.
Blame the User. The last bastion of the technically-challenged.
In case you didn't notice: The percentage of Android Users that are up to par with the likes of people who frequent Slashdot or Stack Overflow, etc. is vanishingly small. So, simply dismissing those people with a conceited and immature wave-of-the-hand is most unhelpful to the entire Android "community".
You want people to start flocking to iOS? Keep that attitude up, asswipe.
The stock browser is a primary avenue of exploit for this malware. Stock lives in /system where it is installed read-only.
This was a colossally foolish thing to do. Browser libraries, executables, and sundry components MUST retain the ability to receive patches.
LD_LIBRARY_PATH should point to /data/lib, then resolve to /system/lib only if an override library is not installed, allowing update capability for stock webkit.
Wow!!! You mean that intrinsic APPS can't even be UPDATED on Android without updating the OS???
Wow. Just. Wow.
What? Did an eight-year-old write Android? Is that why it has that ridiculous, childish name? Why not just call it "Buzz Lightyear" and be done with it?
Yeah but fuck the jews.
I'm not even Jewish; but I double-dog dare you to sign-on and say that.
Apple does stop supporting. My (no longer used) iPad is stuck on iOS 5.x.
He never said they don't stop supporting. Only that they do so ONLY when the Hardware simply makes it impractical.
You have a first-generation iPad. Know how I know that? Because EVERY other version of the iPad (including my iPad 2nd gen) IS still supported (haven't checked as to whether that is true for iOS 9; but so far, it has been supported). In fact, Apple recently released a "point-release" for iOS8 that, among other things, was specifically designed to improve performance on iPad 2.
NOBODY in the Android-universe does that, with the possible exception of Google with Nexus. And they do that only because it is their Reference Platform for Android.
Walled garden no bugs or exploits. It only means now you're even more dependent on a company to fix the exploits and bugs because it's much harder to find workarounds or fix them yourself.
And Android Users can?
However, Android does have a permission model that is all or nothing, where a fleshlight app can ask for everything under the sun and there is no "allow, but not with those permissions" available.
This is changing in Android M
Too bad that pretty much EVERYONE who owns an Android device currently will have to:
1. Wait a YEAR while all the Carriers re-infect it with THEIR Malware, er, Extra Features.
2. THROW AWAY their Current Android Device, the BUY ONE WITH Android "M".