I never worked for a telemarketer, but I spent three years at a survey institute. (Not as a caller, but as a programmer)
They use autodialers too. The key is to trim the autodial level so that no caller spends too much time without someone at the other end, while at the same time there must always be someone ready to take the call once the connection is made.
('Course your average call-o-matic service would not care of the latter, since they get paid to make N calls, not to get N calls to non-pissed off persons.)
If more people would start doing the "two seconds then hang up" routine, the telemarketers would simply trim the response time down to one second. It would cost a little more, maybe drive out the worst scum, but not fix anything.
BTW offtopic: If you are looking for bitter enemies to the telemarketers, try (serious) survey companies. The one I worked for has a good reputation, so most people recognoized them and answered. However as more and more telemarketing is performed, it is increasingly difficult to get interview time. We are reaching the point where it does not pay to try to be ethic when mass-calling. Since those with a clue block their phones due to the telespamming, the only option left is to raise the volume to get more suckers.
Fear the day when the troll league starts spamming with *replies* instead of original posts. I will check every damned "Re: Grits" post until I die from starvation...
As been pointed out already there is no generic answer.
The best situation is a product with *both* guaranteed support from the supplier and open source in case it goes down. If you must choose (if you *can* choose) btw closed source + support guarantee or open source + no guarantee, I'd take the OSS alternative as a general rule, but not *every* time.
Sometimes I've used a binary with source on the side, only to find that the source is a complete mess, and it is easier to start over. One time I've used a proprietary component and reverse engineered it when they did not support a new platform (and it was no more work than the open-but-messy source alternative)
There are basically three scenarios where you need modifications in a piece of software:
Install phase. You find bugs or incompabilities that must be fixed if you are to use the product at all.
New platform. You upgrade your OS or database and have compability problems.
New features needed. You want to use the product for something it was not originally designed for
In the following reasoning I'll assume I get software for a medium to big company. For small firms and persons the rules are completely different (in favour of OSS)
In the first case it does not really matter if you get a closed or open product. Most commersial SW allows a trial period. If the supplier has a clue they will provide support (or lose you as a customer). Anyway you probably have the time to evaluate and search for patches and other solutions. You are not yet "stuck" with your choice.
In the second case you are in real trouble if you purchased a closed product that is no more (been there done that) *If* it is still supported, you generally are better off than with an open solution. Reason? It is generally cheaper to buy an upgrade than spending time coding yourself or hiring someone for the job. Esp. if it requires an almost complete rewrite... (There might be a working patch downloadable, congratulations you hit the jackpot, but don't count on it.)
For new features, OSS rocks. However it is not hopeless to get new features in commersial SW. In MS Office (and others), there is always the option of macros. Many packages offer a programmable interface, plug-in support etc. That can be a better option than code patches. In less frequent SW your wishes count big time. A SW firm that writer specialized products for a few customers can be *very* nice to them...
To summarize: There are no guarantees. Commersial support is sometimes discontinued, the open source may turn out too expensive to fix.
Go for the best product. If you still have the choice, get the one with open source.
I usually recognize trolls. (C'mon, I may only have been posting on/. a coupla months, but I'm not a net newbie by any standard)
The original post in this thread could be a slashdot troll (no not a "slashdot troll", they deal with a certain lady and hot grits. A *real* troll on slashdot), since it expressed a non-/.-cosher opinion. I didn't care, since I heard the same argument so many times by very sane people outside slashdot.
When you can state such main stream opinions for trolling purposes, it says more about the forum then anything else I'm afraid.
So if it was a troll it was a troll savant. (a term I hereby claim instantly copylefted)
Oh I wasn't speaking of Linux in particular. Linux has a maintainer and an army of experts. So does Windows and a whole bunch of free or closed software.
Unmaintained OSS and (even worse) unsupported closed source SW is a terrible risk. Poorly maintained/supported code is only too common, and that goes for both the free and closed variety.
Was Streetlawyer trolling? a troll savant? Don't know. My opinions are (as usual) my own.
Yes, I've heard that statement abused a coupla times too, but as I said (and you understood) "I" was computer savvy, meaning "I" have a clue, but don't check bugtraq every day, or know every damned setting by heart.
I've helped people who are incredibly clueless when it comes to computers in general. They know how to use the tools of their daily work (that may be exellent) but they lack the deeper understanding that helpes you and me when something breaks or otherwise changes their environment.
They don't mind having an "expert" setting up their system. They *do* mind having to call support because their system crashes.
They want to learn and think about their *real* job and leave the backstage computer business to those who knows it better.
My car doesn't magically "just work". However I dont need to know every detail to drive it. If I'm completely clueless repairs will be expensive. If I spend all my time under the hood, making it run perfectly, I would have to find another job (or another girlfriend)
The same goes for computers. For most people there is a balance, where they know enough to avoid "deleting the internet" but spend most of their time doing "real" work.
Unless they are sold as upgrades like Windows98/2000:-)
Sorry couldn't resist. Actually I think Streetlawyer has a point. "Open source" does not help you if you can't (or dont have time to) understand the source.
Most of the time "Open source" is not worth a shit without a maintainer. (Nor is closed source SW BTW)
I must know where to get the *latest* version, I must know where to find *reliable* developers. I must know how to handle "Fix it *now*, cost is not important" situations.
I need a solution that does not require an expert for daily use
And "I" in this case is anyone who is computer savvy, but makes a living with running computers, not by making them run.
Some OSS fulfills those needs, some commercial SW does too. Neither open or closed source rubbish does.
I'm not even sure how I *want* libel law to work. If someone spreads the rumour that I'm a paedophiliac (sp?) I'd like a proper legal tool to defend myself with. OTOH, I don't want to consult a lawyer every time I open my big mouth.
I'll give you a quick non-lawyer translation of swedish law (as found by google) here just to get another example:
If you [call] someone a criminal, [...] or otherwise leave information aimed to cause harm to that person you are guilty of [libel/slander?] and sentenced to a fine or in serious cases prison to a maximum of two years.
If you are obliged to give that information, or if circumstances otherwise makes it justifiable, or if the information can be proved to be true or if you had reasonable cause to believe it was true, you have no liability.
Point here: The law said nothing about damages. It can't be used as a Make Money Fast-sceme.
If you are facing a libel/slander lawsuit, you risk merely a fine, not huge damages. (yeah there is a possibility of prison, but then it would *really* have to be serious. like an evil FUD department knowingly spreading rumours of health hazards using a competitors product)
(Rant warning) The word is out: patent everything!
on
eBay For Patents?
·
· Score: 2
The last year I've seen and read several swedish and other european "management gurus" telling their customers to patent everything in the US, obvious or not, profitable or not.
The word is out: The US patent office has lost their grip, you can get a patent for almost anything. If *you* do not patent your idea, someone else *will*
Take any everyday action, such as typing, asking your friend for help, order a book or a freaking pizza. Fill in a patent application vaguely describing a method for doing the same on the web and cross your fingers.
You have a company? Get a list of *everything* you do and get it patented. (Oh wait, perhaps you could patent the very idea of having a company? Fill in an application, it just might work.)
This is not just a slashdot anti-patent rant, it is (apart from some extrapolations of mine) advice given by some really deep thinkers. (and of course the armada of wanna-bes)
Their message is: The americans have lost control of their once good patent system. Run with the herd or get run over.
...watching someone else's life online seems like an alternative to have a life of your own. ...you leave your monitor, only to wath docusoaps on TV ...you reload users.pl every minute just in case someone replied to your post five days ago. ...you post "You know that you are bored when..."
/global.asa is where you put session variables and global event handlers for IIS.
Things like user validation scripts, userID/PWD for that database on the "secure" server next door.
If you (the IIS developer guy) know what you are doing, a hacker reading your global.asa is no big problem. If you count on that nobody will ever see that source (aka security through obscurity) You are in big trouble.
Sort of like putting your login script on the web.
The planet Psychlo is destroyed in the book by teleporting large quantities of banned nuclear weapons through using the Psychlo teleportation system. These cause the planet to implode inwards becoming a sun
Oh,... whats wrong with the old fashioned way of putting nukes in volcanoes? Of course you would have to deal with those pesking thetans afterwards, but what the hey!
Real problems start when governments and companies use each other as proxy.
A company wants to mine on Indian land? They don't want to do business? Go through the government! They can fix a law if you pay them!
A company wants to keep competitors off? Get the government to make stronger patent and trade mark laws
A government agency wants to do something unconstitutional? Form a company. They are just bound by regular laws.
The govenment wants to censor the net? First amendment in the way? Make sure that the companies does it for you!
The government wants to track anti-social people. Unconstitutional? Buy the data from a company
There is one fundamental difference btw a democratic government and a corporation: Elections. Perhaps far from perfect, but existing.
Voting with your money? Yeah right! Your vote *is* bigger than your wallet. How large share of the population in your country are you? Tiny. How large share of a major corporations revenue do you represent? Even less. Do the math. Go figure.
List for me the liberties "evil corporations" have taken from you
The right to life
The right to education
The right to peaceful assembly
The freedom of speech
Etc
Not from me, not from you, but from someone, somewhere.
The US government has a (somewhat) level playing field with the corps. Do you think that is the case in smaller countries?
Wars "forgotten" by CNN are fought in the third world. Officially between two nations, or btw the government and a rebel force. In reality they are fought between two (often both US) companies for oil and mining rights.
What I was getting at is the stupidity of treating something with fluctuating intrinsic value as currency. The point of having a monetary system (wether coins, bills or bits in a bank account) is that your dollars always are worth as much as mine.
That gives us a fair measurement of capital.
Of course the economic value of a dollar changes. Your dollars are *still* worth as much as mine. And since the intrinsic value of money is (virtually) zero, noone but a counterfeiter wins anything by adding more dollars to the equation.
IP has a economic (or relative) value based on its scarcity. So does physical products. That is why gas prices goes up when OPEC agrees to lessen the supply. That is why food prices goes down after a good harvest (not that *those* changes always gets through to the consumer...).
However, IP just like physical products *does* have intrinsic value. If it wasn't for pollution, lower gas prices would be better for everyone but the oil companies. Lower food prices would be good for everyone. (Farmers would complain, but lower gas prices would even things out)
And: A wider distribution of IP would increase the overall wealth. It might decrease the *relative* wealth of some people, but relative wealth is not all there is. If I have an old car and my neighbour has none, I have a better relative wealth that if we both had shiny new Ferarris. Still I'd prefer the Ferarri...
I hate to sound like the "new economy" evangelists, but here we *have* something that has intrinsic value and zero marginal cost. Applying scarcity (often by proxy, like record companies) just to inflate the economic value and fit IP into a economy modelled on physical products *must* be suboptimal.
I agree that any economy needs flux to function. I don't see the contradiction. Even for a freely distributed product there is a value in being *first*. That should provide flux enough for a working economy.
PS, it is not the intrinsic value of money that keeps you from living in a barter economy. it is the economic value.
AOL are not completely clueless, They claim that they took appropriate measures to shut down the page. I just can't believe that such a big player as AOL would open themselves for a lawsuit by not removing illegal material after being informed. If *their* effort (whatever it was) is not enough *no* ISP will be safe.
AOL Germany said it would appeal. It argued that it lacks technical means to monitor the service's huge data flow and that it had closed down the forum where music was illegally swapped after learning of it.
That is: They acted like any other ISP, removing files and/or accounts when abuse is reported, but not monitor every file themselves.
How do you suggest any ISP to guarantee that no account will ever be used for illegal activities? They can punish the "pirates" they catch, but not prevent all pirating.
Would you prefer a lawyer approving of *every* *single* *file* put on the net? That is what it would take to be "in control"
The chirping would drain the batteries, a bit. More so the handshaking involved when your cell phone gets a message. (or whatever, it seems like the transmitter is busy when I get a SMS too)
But you're right. 5h talk and 50h standby is an absolute minimun nowadays. I charge my two years old Motorola every third day and it is almost never off. A new Nokia or Ericsson could last a week.
Worse is the fact that if I'm abroad *I* pay for the international charge. The sender just pays for a domestic call.
One copy of the Britney Spears album would have the same value for me as a hundred copies (regardless of what that value is)
Still a hundred copies would *cost* me a hundred times more than one (except for discounts of course) Cloning the BS album would be more like selling a dollar bill to myself a hundred times.
Anyway, about your coin collector:
Someone who would spend $25 dollars to buy a quarter from the 1800's. This value increase is based on scarcity, a property normally attributed to IP.
Nineteenth century quarters are scarce, will *remain* scarce and hence has a collectors value. Britney Spears CD's can be *made* scarce. The music upon them is also scarce, if official CD's are the only medium. They get an increased *relative* value, not by creating more/better "property" but by keeping others out of supply.
Scarcity is a property artificially attributed to IP to give it a financial value. IP also has real value. Freevare is not scarce, do you mean that free software is worthless? Do you claim that air is worthless since it is equally distributed?
Interactions are based on the differences between, not the absolute values of, the temperatures.
True, but lukewarm coffee taste like shit, even if I brew it in the freezer.
... that most writers/composers/producers primary goal is a house in beverly hills. (BTW if there were a hundred times more houses in beverly hills, they would not be as valuable either:-)
Agreed, less music might be recorded since there would be no reason to create "IP" just to speculate for financial gain. But as long as there is a demand for music, someone will create it. This might come as a surprise, but music is actually older than recording technology!
There is also a demand for "stars" so there will be stars, just not prefab RIAA stars, but more unpredictable. And *they* will buy houses in beverly hills so I'm not worried about that area either.
Slashdot Mirror
Perhaps soak the GPS in some grizzly pheromone for added effect :-)
On the flip side I'd be free to spam you as much as I wanted, muhahahah!
Actually some of the better discussions I've had here has been on "dead" topics.
They use autodialers too. The key is to trim the autodial level so that no caller spends too much time without someone at the other end, while at the same time there must always be someone ready to take the call once the connection is made.
('Course your average call-o-matic service would not care of the latter, since they get paid to make N calls, not to get N calls to non-pissed off persons.)
If more people would start doing the "two seconds then hang up" routine, the telemarketers would simply trim the response time down to one second. It would cost a little more, maybe drive out the worst scum, but not fix anything.
BTW offtopic: If you are looking for bitter enemies to the telemarketers, try (serious) survey companies. The one I worked for has a good reputation, so most people recognoized them and answered. However as more and more telemarketing is performed, it is increasingly difficult to get interview time. We are reaching the point where it does not pay to try to be ethic when mass-calling. Since those with a clue block their phones due to the telespamming, the only option left is to raise the volume to get more suckers.
Fear the day when the troll league starts spamming with *replies* instead of original posts. I will check every damned "Re: Grits" post until I die from starvation...
The best situation is a product with *both* guaranteed support from the supplier and open source in case it goes down.
If you must choose (if you *can* choose) btw closed source + support guarantee or open source + no guarantee, I'd take the OSS alternative as a general rule, but not *every* time.
Sometimes I've used a binary with source on the side, only to find that the source is a complete mess, and it is easier to start over.
One time I've used a proprietary component and reverse engineered it when they did not support a new platform (and it was no more work than the open-but-messy source alternative)
There are basically three scenarios where you need modifications in a piece of software:
- Install phase. You find bugs or incompabilities that must be fixed if you are to use the product at all.
- New platform. You upgrade your OS or database and have compability problems.
- New features needed. You want to use the product for something it was not originally designed for
In the following reasoning I'll assume I get software for a medium to big company. For small firms and persons the rules are completely different (in favour of OSS)In the first case it does not really matter if you get a closed or open product. Most commersial SW allows a trial period. If the supplier has a clue they will provide support (or lose you as a customer). Anyway you probably have the time to evaluate and search for patches and other solutions. You are not yet "stuck" with your choice.
In the second case you are in real trouble if you purchased a closed product that is no more (been there done that) *If* it is still supported, you generally are better off than with an open solution. Reason? It is generally cheaper to buy an upgrade than spending time coding yourself or hiring someone for the job. Esp. if it requires an almost complete rewrite... (There might be a working patch downloadable, congratulations you hit the jackpot, but don't count on it.)
For new features, OSS rocks. However it is not hopeless to get new features in commersial SW.
In MS Office (and others), there is always the option of macros. Many packages offer a programmable interface, plug-in support etc. That can be a better option than code patches.
In less frequent SW your wishes count big time. A SW firm that writer specialized products for a few customers can be *very* nice to them...
To summarize: There are no guarantees.
Commersial support is sometimes discontinued, the open source may turn out too expensive to fix.
Go for the best product. If you still have the choice, get the one with open source.
The original post in this thread could be a slashdot troll (no not a "slashdot troll", they deal with a certain lady and hot grits. A *real* troll on slashdot), since it expressed a non-/.-cosher opinion. I didn't care, since I heard the same argument so many times by very sane people outside slashdot.
When you can state such main stream opinions for trolling purposes, it says more about the forum then anything else I'm afraid.
So if it was a troll it was a troll savant. (a term I hereby claim instantly copylefted)
Unmaintained OSS and (even worse) unsupported closed source SW is a terrible risk.
Poorly maintained/supported code is only too common, and that goes for both the free and closed variety.
Was Streetlawyer trolling? a troll savant? Don't know. My opinions are (as usual) my own.
I've helped people who are incredibly clueless when it comes to computers in general. They know how to use the tools of their daily work (that may be exellent) but they lack the deeper understanding that helpes you and me when something breaks or otherwise changes their environment.
They don't mind having an "expert" setting up their system. They *do* mind having to call support because their system crashes.
They want to learn and think about their *real* job and leave the backstage computer business to those who knows it better.
My car doesn't magically "just work". However I dont need to know every detail to drive it. If I'm completely clueless repairs will be expensive. If I spend all my time under the hood, making it run perfectly, I would have to find another job (or another girlfriend)
The same goes for computers. For most people there is a balance, where they know enough to avoid "deleting the internet" but spend most of their time doing "real" work.
Unless they are sold as upgrades like Windows98/2000 :-)
Sorry couldn't resist. Actually I think Streetlawyer has a point.
"Open source" does not help you if you can't (or dont have time to) understand the source.
Most of the time "Open source" is not worth a shit without a maintainer. (Nor is closed source SW BTW)
I must know where to get the *latest* version, I must know where to find *reliable* developers. I must know how to handle "Fix it *now*, cost is not important" situations.
I need a solution that does not require an expert for daily use
And "I" in this case is anyone who is computer savvy, but makes a living with running computers, not by making them run.
Some OSS fulfills those needs, some commercial SW does too. Neither open or closed source rubbish does.
If someone spreads the rumour that I'm a paedophiliac (sp?) I'd like a proper legal tool to defend myself with. OTOH, I don't want to consult a lawyer every time I open my big mouth.
I'll give you a quick non-lawyer translation of swedish law (as found by google) here just to get another example:
Point here: The law said nothing about damages. It can't be used as a Make Money Fast-sceme.
If you are facing a libel/slander lawsuit, you risk merely a fine, not huge damages. (yeah there is a possibility of prison, but then it would *really* have to be serious. like an evil FUD department knowingly spreading rumours of health hazards using a competitors product)
Yes!! a reply! (drools)
:-)
The word is out: The US patent office has lost their grip, you can get a patent for almost anything. If *you* do not patent your idea, someone else *will*
Take any everyday action, such as typing, asking your friend for help, order a book or a freaking pizza. Fill in a patent application vaguely describing a method for doing the same on the web and cross your fingers.
You have a company? Get a list of *everything* you do and get it patented. (Oh wait, perhaps you could patent the very idea of having a company? Fill in an application, it just might work.)
This is not just a slashdot anti-patent rant, it is (apart from some extrapolations of mine) advice given by some really deep thinkers. (and of course the armada of wanna-bes)
Their message is: The americans have lost control of their once good patent system. Run with the herd or get run over.
Things like user validation scripts, userID/PWD for that database on the "secure" server next door.
If you (the IIS developer guy) know what you are doing, a hacker reading your global.asa is no big problem. If you count on that nobody will ever see that source (aka security through obscurity) You are in big trouble.
Sort of like putting your login script on the web.
Oh,... whats wrong with the old fashioned way of putting nukes in volcanoes? Of course you would have to deal with those pesking thetans afterwards, but what the hey!
- A company wants to mine on Indian land? They don't want to do business? Go through the government! They can fix a law if you pay them!
- A company wants to keep competitors off? Get the government to make stronger patent and trade mark laws
- A government agency wants to do something unconstitutional? Form a company. They are just bound by regular laws.
- The govenment wants to censor the net? First amendment in the way? Make sure that the companies does it for you!
- The government wants to track anti-social people. Unconstitutional? Buy the data from a company
There is one fundamental difference btw a democratic government and a corporation: Elections. Perhaps far from perfect, but existing.Voting with your money? Yeah right! Your vote *is* bigger than your wallet.
How large share of the population in your country are you? Tiny. How large share of a major corporations revenue do you represent? Even less. Do the math. Go figure.
List for me the liberties "evil corporations" have taken from you
- The right to life
- The right to education
- The right to peaceful assembly
- The freedom of speech
- Etc
Not from me, not from you, but from someone, somewhere.The US government has a (somewhat) level playing field with the corps. Do you think that is the case in smaller countries?
Wars "forgotten" by CNN are fought in the third world. Officially between two nations, or btw the government and a rebel force. In reality they are fought between two (often both US) companies for oil and mining rights.
That gives us a fair measurement of capital.
Of course the economic value of a dollar changes. Your dollars are *still* worth as much as mine. And since the intrinsic value of money is (virtually) zero, noone but a counterfeiter wins anything by adding more dollars to the equation.
IP has a economic (or relative) value based on its scarcity. So does physical products. That is why gas prices goes up when OPEC agrees to lessen the supply. That is why food prices goes down after a good harvest (not that *those* changes always gets through to the consumer...).
However, IP just like physical products *does* have intrinsic value. If it wasn't for pollution, lower gas prices would be better for everyone but the oil companies. Lower food prices would be good for everyone. (Farmers would complain, but lower gas prices would even things out)
And: A wider distribution of IP would increase the overall wealth. It might decrease the *relative* wealth of some people, but relative wealth is not all there is. If I have an old car and my neighbour has none, I have a better relative wealth that if we both had shiny new Ferarris. Still I'd prefer the Ferarri...
I hate to sound like the "new economy" evangelists, but here we *have* something that has intrinsic value and zero marginal cost. Applying scarcity (often by proxy, like record companies) just to inflate the economic value and fit IP into a economy modelled on physical products *must* be suboptimal.
I agree that any economy needs flux to function. I don't see the contradiction. Even for a freely distributed product there is a value in being *first*. That should provide flux enough for a working economy.
PS, it is not the intrinsic value of money that keeps you from living in a barter economy. it is the economic value.
Maybe not in general, but it happens.
AOL are not completely clueless, They claim that they took appropriate measures to shut down the page. I just can't believe that such a big player as AOL would open themselves for a lawsuit by not removing illegal material after being informed. If *their* effort (whatever it was) is not enough *no* ISP will be safe.
Which they did. Read the article!
AOL Germany said it would appeal. It argued that it lacks technical means to monitor the service's huge data flow and that it had closed down the forum where music was illegally swapped after learning of it.
That is: They acted like any other ISP, removing files and/or accounts when abuse is reported, but not monitor every file themselves.
How do you suggest any ISP to guarantee that no account will ever be used for illegal activities? They can punish the "pirates" they catch, but not prevent all pirating.
Would you prefer a lawyer approving of *every* *single* *file* put on the net? That is what it would take to be "in control"
And those arrogant slashdotters who argue for shorter patent life spans...
More so the handshaking involved when your cell phone gets a message. (or whatever, it seems like the transmitter is busy when I get a SMS too)
But you're right. 5h talk and 50h standby is an absolute minimun nowadays. I charge my two years old Motorola every third day and it is almost never off. A new Nokia or Ericsson could last a week.
Worse is the fact that if I'm abroad *I* pay for the international charge. The sender just pays for a domestic call.
Still a hundred copies would *cost* me a hundred times more than one (except for discounts of course)
Cloning the BS album would be more like selling a dollar bill to myself a hundred times.
Anyway, about your coin collector:
Someone who would spend $25 dollars to buy a quarter from the 1800's. This value increase is based on scarcity, a property normally attributed to IP.
Nineteenth century quarters are scarce, will *remain* scarce and hence has a collectors value. Britney Spears CD's can be *made* scarce. The music upon them is also scarce, if official CD's are the only medium. They get an increased *relative* value, not by creating more/better "property" but by keeping others out of supply.
Scarcity is a property artificially attributed to IP to give it a financial value. IP also has real value. Freevare is not scarce, do you mean that free software is worthless? Do you claim that air is worthless since it is equally distributed?
Interactions are based on the differences between, not the absolute values of, the temperatures.
True, but lukewarm coffee taste like shit, even if I brew it in the freezer.
Agreed, less music might be recorded since there would be no reason to create "IP" just to speculate for financial gain. But as long as there is a demand for music, someone will create it. This might come as a surprise, but music is actually older than recording technology!
There is also a demand for "stars" so there will be stars, just not prefab RIAA stars, but more unpredictable. And *they* will buy houses in beverly hills so I'm not worried about that area either.