And the form where i am typing this is not really GUI. The browser submits the data to a server and I will see my post back as html incoming from it as well????
Actually FTP, Email, Voice recognition or whatever the transport of the commands may be, is not the escence of the argument. The issue is that, if a configuration change is only available on GUI, it is difficult to automate. While there a many ways to automate a CLI based configuration change. Clearly in software evrything is possible. But out of the box, CLI administration. Particularly LINUX based has many automation tools based on the fact that anything can be done on a command line/text editor.
There is a MS vs LINUX subtext in the article. Because of the traditions in each of the camps. I do believe that LINUX has an edge once a willing admin is able to endure the hard task of remembering every random and arcane name or switch LINUX has to offer. So for the casual admin MS may be better.
Sure that may be an acomplishement for LINUX and for corageous admins. But it is far from ideal as well.
When are the teological discusions going to end. This is old news, and still people fight it as if their life depended on it. Chill out.
As humans we can make sense out of the lack of order in the linux commands. While the windows GUI with it's limitations is much easier to use. The sad part of the story is that we don't really have a better alternative to either of them yet. The windows powershell, althought I have not user it myself may be a wakeup call to Linux, or maybe not. While people are willing to learn arcane nomenclature and adhoc syntax, there is not really much any CLI alternative can do.
The bigger question is while we invest time in petty MS vs LINUX discussions, we miss the third alternative. What will be the better way to do what we do. the repetitive tasks. As well as ease of use and learning? Does a Steve jobs need to come and spell it out with a product (like he did with the iphone) before we can begin to understand that there ARE other posibilities!!!
That should be where our energies should be invested towards.
If I read this right this is really bad!! It would be nice to know which are these third world countries. China used to be one of them and I'm not so sure It's the same country that it was when the term was born.
I just don't get this idea that somehow people from "third world" countries are that different from the rest of the world. The fact that this ideal poor person can afford a computer to begin with suggests that they would have the extra 50$ (or whatever in may be) to get the next version. I mean how different can the hardware requirements really be. Locking the operating system to run only 3 apps doesn't really lower the hardware requirements.
Next time it will be "We made a new books for those poor third world countries, we only printed the top half of the page and they are half off"
Come on, there are poor people everywhere including guess who... the US. Unless they envision people on food stamps buying their operating system it does not make sense for poor people in "third world countries" either.
A container from china costs from 2500$ to 3000$ to ship. They come in 45', 40' and 20' sizes. The smallest fits arount 33 cubic meters. At around 2 CFL per liter you could fit 66000. If we leave extra room let's say 50000. At 3000$ it costs 6 cents to get each CFL to the US. Now even if someone said "2 per liter? Baloney! the most you could fit is 20000!" well, fuel probably only accounts for 60% of the price anyway, so we are still talking cents.
We have less than 10 cents to ship versus 20$ savings. Come on!!! I think people have an aversion to anything china.
A container from china costs from 2500$ to 3000$ to ship. They come in 45', 40' and 20' sizes. The smallest fits arount 33 cubic meters. At around 2 CFL per liter you could fit 66000. If we leave extra room let's say 50000. At 3000$ it costs 6 cents to get each CFL to the US. Now even if someone said "2 per liter? Baloney! the most you could fit is 20000!" well, fuel probably only accounts for 60% of the price anyway, so we are still talking cents.
We have less than 10 cents to ship versus 20$ savings. Come on!!! I think people have an aversion to anything china.
I just did the posting I am quoting. I am logged on I can see my user (arthernan) at the top of the page. And the "post anonymously" check box is empty.
"Obviously, wind alone isn't the solution," Jacobson said. "It's got to be a package deal, with energy also being produced by other sources such as solar, tidal, wave and geothermal power."
Plus Nuclear was not graded low because of nuclear waste management, but because it produces a 25 times more carbon than solar, tidal, wave and wind. Assuming that there is a risk for CO2 emmission in geotermal. The other reason is politics, how can the US build in't new generation power supply on the very material that is the mayor terrorist threat.
If the US is succesful at getting a new generation of power without nuclear plants. Everybody else can do it. Do you think Iranians would not get wind of such an accomplishment? Wouldn't it make it easier to impose sanctions? To me it's a no-brainer. Sorry for all those nuclear scientists.
Pipedreams, but you rather spend 2 mllion. I think you need to be more consistent on you comments.
85%-90% Clean is actually pretty good. The guys at Stanford were very clear on their study. They compared individual options for vehicle power. I did not hear them say that they dreamed one of them was picked and used across the board.
To tie this with another post. Somebody said that the OS is bypassed by application anyway, so what role does Linux or any other OS have ona a cluster like this?
If the only reason to have an OS is to load and run an application, and to do some other unavoidable file maintenance. I think there could be competition from Windows.
How about recordings that are 15+ years old, in which the author if he is still alive is nowhere to be found.
There are a lot of songs that I heard when I was very young that are IMPOSSIBLE to find in any store. These musicians made a connection with society and profited from it. That is a great thing. But at some point we have to be reasonable and acknowledge that people should be able to hear the music that they made popular by listening to it. And if the author is not there to sell it, we should be able to put it in a P2P.
The biggest problem is that the RIAA has you convinced that the current law is the only alternative. And they do that to keep control of a distibution business that has been made obsolete by the internet. In the good old days publishers indeed did a lot of work. Wether printing press or makling tubes. Distributing intelectual works was capital intensive. That is not the case today. And there are people out there that know of much better alternative to the copyright law.
In other words the disjunctive of prohibiting P2P sharing or allow criminal activity is false. There is a third option and it is FIX copyright law. And that is the option RIAA does not want you to think about.
Look at Europe, do you think it has a history of extreme poverty. Many people embarked a much longer trip by boat to get to the US for exactly the same reasons.
More than a few could not afford their tickets. How many horror stories do you think there were of people dying in their hiding places, inside the boat.
Lots of american citizens go througth a lot of effort to move from city to city for a job offer.
Many of these mexican people are leaving their small rural town for the big city, and they decide to go the whole nine yards.
Don't get me wrong I love the US, I just think it is sad how many people think ideas like yours are "common knowledge".
Just like there are differences between plausible probable and likely. There is a difference between an acussation and questioning.
Before an acusation can even be made people have to ask questions. Unless you expect to catch every lawbreaker in the act, there has to be some inquiry and/or research. And it does make sense for an open software foundation. To discuss this openly.
There are a handful of ways to increase computing power optical computing and parallel computing being the most likely as far as I know. And it may very well be they could be combined to attain even more power.
One day we might all be using superparallel computers.
Using an old board might even have some merit. Maybe they realized that for their architecture, that old board is as good as any.
Plus, and this is a huge plus. Older boards are also cheaper boards. And if you are thinking of mass production you can save some serious money If you are able to make it work. And if they are thinking of making it for a desktop enviroment, they need to make it as cheap as they possibly can.
Sure there are many applications that need to wait for user input and as the statment implies there are many that don't need to.
Max out all known memory and storage systems? Not to mention your internet connection? I think you are getting too creative in your arguments.
The only good point in your post is the lack of programmer support to today. And hasn't it occured to you that part of this lack of support exists because most programmers don't have access to a supercomputer. I know I don't have. The minute I can have a desktop that can have one superprocessor like that one. I'll try to get one. In my case I think I need it to cost 2000$ or less to justify buying it.
Nobody can stop progress, and lack of faster clock speeds IS a HUGE deal. So if you are a programmer you better look at what do you need to learn to be proficient on parrallel computer programming.
Yes it is not surprising, but not because of ignorant people but practicality.
The way I see it there are depending on your browser 3 or more boxes. The address box, the search box in the toolbox section. And for many people the home page is also a search engine (google is a common option) which has a search box too.
You can type yahoo on any of them and you will get there. The URL is the hardest to type, thought MS has made it so [http://www.] and [.com] are appended to any word that is typed in that field.
So it is another click, but what is it when ou get used to using one field for almos everything?
Google or amazon are not so good examples, since they make money. And they are already there.
The wikipedia is a latecomer, and they have no ads whatsoever.
Time warner argues that the consumer is footing a higher bill than is necesary. The extra money time warner would get would mean lower rates or internet service. But I do not buy it for one second, time warner won't lower their rates, the consumer market is entirely separate from the corporate. If anything it represents a new Market for Time Warner.
CFL are $ 2.50 regular bulbs are $0.50. CFL last 10 times longer. So in fact if Wall-Mart customers made the switch Wall-Mart would be taking a hit of 50% in light bulb revenue. In the article they talk about reaching sales of 100 million CFL a year compared to 4 million they sell now. That would be 250 million dolars of lost revenue.
I don't doubt that Wall-Mart is thirsty for good publicity. If anything this proves the power of the internet and the consumer.
The cost of hybrid technology by itself adds 3000k to the value of the vehicle. And the gas savings alone won't make up the difference. That is not even talking about the cost of the batteries required to make it fully electric. EDrive systems will offer a Li-ion solution for $12000 (http://www.edrivesystems.com/faq.html)
I can't say how much energy it takes to produce a battery, But it certainly it does take some energy along with other natural resources. Judging from the price it may take more energy to produce the battery than the energy used throught the lifetime of the vehicle.
The biggest problem is that our current source of energy (fossil fuels) is terribly cheap, at the the expense of global warming ect... In average we only spend $1000 - $2000 a year on gas. This is what makes the choice of technology so difficult. It is very easy to come up with very energy efficient solutions at a high price and make vehicles that won't sell.
I personally don't even know what the price of fuel cell technology is. And how will the price decrease as production scales up. It may very well be that the price diferential that we now see for small production quantities reverse when production ramps up. Even when we might expect new battery technology to be cheaper and more efficient. This depends on new discoveries and developments in electrical/chemical processes that may not happen. This is true of other technologies too. Attempting to solve the problem from different angles seems a sensible thing to do.
Cyc and hence the open version of it OpenCyc is a rule based AI system. Certain degree of AI is already available OCR, Speech recognition, even Google has some smarts in it. All these systems are mostly statistical. Many have intelligence built into the model design, but the actual numbers that make up the model have very little meaning. Bayesian networks to my taste capture the most info but they are still behind.
But the jury is still out, what aproach will take the first mayor step towards a reasoning system.
As for the statistical AI. I do buy the idea that ultimately the information that is being processed is not neccesarly as relevant as the final result. So eventualy a reasoning system can function on a purely statistical basis. And there is a chance that our brain is purely statistical. But it's development with human elements as a statistical machine it's to me unlikely.
Now back to Cyc. If you download it, it will be difficult to use, you will find bugs inside it. Yes, juck they do exist. But it's a start. The biggest problem to fleshing this thing out is getting users to use it. Cycorp is no microsoft with hoardes of PR and Marketing people. And they have not documented every feature. But I think it's the most complete AI system out there.
So is Cyc
"the fledgling footsteps of an emerging AI?"
or
"the babbling beginnings of a bloated database?"
I'll add my own.
"a huge effort to acomplish something very difficult"
"not terribly well documented"
It's probably a little of each one. I personally think that there is a huge opportunity here. For people that are willing to work with Cycorp lack of support experience. Cycorp needs user input, and if/when they get it you will be surpriised of what is in the box. Everybody talks about the Killer app for AI, there is a good chance that app will have to do with Cyc.
There are several people from Cycorp watching this thread. I hope I got some people interested. I would suggest you post questions if you have any.
Slashdot Mirror
And the form where i am typing this is not really GUI. The browser submits the data to a server and I will see my post back as html incoming from it as well????
Actually FTP, Email, Voice recognition or whatever the transport of the commands may be, is not the escence of the argument. The issue is that, if a configuration change is only available on GUI, it is difficult to automate. While there a many ways to automate a CLI based configuration change. Clearly in software evrything is possible. But out of the box, CLI administration. Particularly LINUX based has many automation tools based on the fact that anything can be done on a command line/text editor.
There is a MS vs LINUX subtext in the article. Because of the traditions in each of the camps. I do believe that LINUX has an edge once a willing admin is able to endure the hard task of remembering every random and arcane name or switch LINUX has to offer. So for the casual admin MS may be better.
Sure that may be an acomplishement for LINUX and for corageous admins. But it is far from ideal as well.
When are the teological discusions going to end. This is old news, and still people fight it as if their life depended on it. Chill out.
As humans we can make sense out of the lack of order in the linux commands. While the windows GUI with it's limitations is much easier to use. The sad part of the story is that we don't really have a better alternative to either of them yet. The windows powershell, althought I have not user it myself may be a wakeup call to Linux, or maybe not. While people are willing to learn arcane nomenclature and adhoc syntax, there is not really much any CLI alternative can do.
The bigger question is while we invest time in petty MS vs LINUX discussions, we miss the third alternative. What will be the better way to do what we do. the repetitive tasks. As well as ease of use and learning? Does a Steve jobs need to come and spell it out with a product (like he did with the iphone) before we can begin to understand that there ARE other posibilities!!!
That should be where our energies should be invested towards.
http://forum.thedailyshow.com/tds/board/message?board.id=story_suggestions&thread.id=9642
If I read this right this is really bad!! It would be nice to know which are these third world countries. China used to be one of them and I'm not so sure It's the same country that it was when the term was born.
I just don't get this idea that somehow people from "third world" countries are that different from the rest of the world. The fact that this ideal poor person can afford a computer to begin with suggests that they would have the extra 50$ (or whatever in may be) to get the next version. I mean how different can the hardware requirements really be. Locking the operating system to run only 3 apps doesn't really lower the hardware requirements.
Next time it will be "We made a new books for those poor third world countries, we only printed the top half of the page and they are half off"
Come on, there are poor people everywhere including guess who... the US. Unless they envision people on food stamps buying their operating system it does not make sense for poor people in "third world countries" either.
Lets make some real numbers in volume terms now.
A container from china costs from 2500$ to 3000$ to ship. They come in 45', 40' and 20' sizes. The smallest fits arount 33 cubic meters. At around 2 CFL per liter you could fit 66000. If we leave extra room let's say 50000. At 3000$ it costs 6 cents to get each CFL to the US. Now even if someone said "2 per liter? Baloney! the most you could fit is 20000!" well, fuel probably only accounts for 60% of the price anyway, so we are still talking cents.
We have less than 10 cents to ship versus 20$ savings. Come on!!! I think people have an aversion to anything china.
http://news.cnet.com/Sourcing-in-China-not-a-sure-bet/2030-1069_3-5561137.html [cnet.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containerization#Dimensions_and_payloads [wikipedia.org]
Real data, but let me put it in volume terms now.
A container from china costs from 2500$ to 3000$ to ship. They come in 45', 40' and 20' sizes. The smallest fits arount 33 cubic meters. At around 2 CFL per liter you could fit 66000. If we leave extra room let's say 50000. At 3000$ it costs 6 cents to get each CFL to the US. Now even if someone said "2 per liter? Baloney! the most you could fit is 20000!" well, fuel probably only accounts for 60% of the price anyway, so we are still talking cents.
We have less than 10 cents to ship versus 20$ savings. Come on!!! I think people have an aversion to anything china.
http://news.cnet.com/Sourcing-in-China-not-a-sure-bet/2030-1069_3-5561137.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containerization#Dimensions_and_payloads
I just did the posting I am quoting. I am logged on I can see my user (arthernan) at the top of the page. And the "post anonymously" check box is empty.
Did you read the article?
"Obviously, wind alone isn't the solution," Jacobson said. "It's got to be a package deal, with energy also being produced by other sources such as solar, tidal, wave and geothermal power."
Plus Nuclear was not graded low because of nuclear waste management, but because it produces a 25 times more carbon than solar, tidal, wave and wind. Assuming that there is a risk for CO2 emmission in geotermal. The other reason is politics, how can the US build in't new generation power supply on the very material that is the mayor terrorist threat.
If the US is succesful at getting a new generation of power without nuclear plants. Everybody else can do it. Do you think Iranians would not get wind of such an accomplishment? Wouldn't it make it easier to impose sanctions? To me it's a no-brainer. Sorry for all those nuclear scientists.
Pipedreams, but you rather spend 2 mllion. I think you need to be more consistent on you comments.
85%-90% Clean is actually pretty good. The guys at Stanford were very clear on their study. They compared individual options for vehicle power. I did not hear them say that they dreamed one of them was picked and used across the board.
To tie this with another post. Somebody said that the OS is bypassed by application anyway, so what role does Linux or any other OS have ona a cluster like this?
If the only reason to have an OS is to load and run an application, and to do some other unavoidable file maintenance. I think there could be competition from Windows.
How about recordings that are 15+ years old, in which the author if he is still alive is nowhere to be found.
a tion
There are a lot of songs that I heard when I was very young that are IMPOSSIBLE to find in any store. These musicians made a connection with society and profited from it. That is a great thing. But at some point we have to be reasonable and acknowledge that people should be able to hear the music that they made popular by listening to it. And if the author is not there to sell it, we should be able to put it in a P2P.
The biggest problem is that the RIAA has you convinced that the current law is the only alternative. And they do that to keep control of a distibution business that has been made obsolete by the internet. In the good old days publishers indeed did a lot of work. Wether printing press or makling tubes. Distributing intelectual works was capital intensive. That is not the case today. And there are people out there that know of much better alternative to the copyright law.
In other words the disjunctive of prohibiting P2P sharing or allow criminal activity is false. There is a third option and it is FIX copyright law. And that is the option RIAA does not want you to think about.
I suggest you read
http://questioncopyright.org/proportional_registr
Althought the whole site is good to read.
I think I have trashed ten times the amount of code that I have written.
Look at Europe, do you think it has a history of extreme poverty. Many people embarked a much longer trip by boat to get to the US for exactly the same reasons.
More than a few could not afford their tickets. How many horror stories do you think there were of people dying in their hiding places, inside the boat.
Lots of american citizens go througth a lot of effort to move from city to city for a job offer.
Many of these mexican people are leaving their small rural town for the big city, and they decide to go the whole nine yards.
Don't get me wrong I love the US, I just think it is sad how many people think ideas like yours are "common knowledge".
Just like there are differences between plausible probable and likely. There is a difference between an acussation and questioning.
Before an acusation can even be made people have to ask questions. Unless you expect to catch every lawbreaker in the act, there has to be some inquiry and/or research. And it does make sense for an open software foundation. To discuss this openly.
Man, I can't belive the urge for bashing!!!
There are a handful of ways to increase computing power optical computing and parallel computing being the most likely as far as I know. And it may very well be they could be combined to attain even more power.
One day we might all be using superparallel computers.
Using an old board might even have some merit. Maybe they realized that for their architecture, that old board is as good as any.
Plus, and this is a huge plus. Older boards are also cheaper boards. And if you are thinking of mass production you can save some serious money If you are able to make it work. And if they are thinking of making it for a desktop enviroment, they need to make it as cheap as they possibly can.
Sure there are many applications that need to wait for user input and as the statment implies there are many that don't need to.
Max out all known memory and storage systems? Not to mention your internet connection? I think you are getting too creative in your arguments.
The only good point in your post is the lack of programmer support to today. And hasn't it occured to you that part of this lack of support exists because most programmers don't have access to a supercomputer. I know I don't have. The minute I can have a desktop that can have one superprocessor like that one. I'll try to get one. In my case I think I need it to cost 2000$ or less to justify buying it.
Nobody can stop progress, and lack of faster clock speeds IS a HUGE deal. So if you are a programmer you better look at what do you need to learn to be proficient on parrallel computer programming.
I think you are underestimating the power of the consumer and reality.
Ford and GM did the same thing. And now look at them.
Sadly I don't think EXXON-MOBIL will ever do as badly. But they are not all powerfull.
Yes it is not surprising, but not because of ignorant people but practicality.
The way I see it there are depending on your browser 3 or more boxes. The address box, the search box in the toolbox section. And for many people the home page is also a search engine (google is a common option) which has a search box too.
You can type yahoo on any of them and you will get there. The URL is the hardest to type, thought MS has made it so [http://www.] and [.com] are appended to any word that is typed in that field.
So it is another click, but what is it when ou get used to using one field for almos everything?
Google or amazon are not so good examples, since they make money. And they are already there.
The wikipedia is a latecomer, and they have no ads whatsoever.
Time warner argues that the consumer is footing a higher bill than is necesary. The extra money time warner would get would mean lower rates or internet service. But I do not buy it for one second, time warner won't lower their rates, the consumer market is entirely separate from the corporate. If anything it represents a new Market for Time Warner.
I doubt that they would get away with it.
CFL are $ 2.50 regular bulbs are $0.50. CFL last 10 times longer. So in fact if Wall-Mart customers made the switch Wall-Mart would be taking a hit of 50% in light bulb revenue. In the article they talk about reaching sales of 100 million CFL a year compared to 4 million they sell now. That would be 250 million dolars of lost revenue.
I don't doubt that Wall-Mart is thirsty for good publicity. If anything this proves the power of the internet and the consumer.
The cost of hybrid technology by itself adds 3000k to the value of the vehicle. And the gas savings alone won't make up the difference. That is not even talking about the cost of the batteries required to make it fully electric. EDrive systems will offer a Li-ion solution for $12000 (http://www.edrivesystems.com/faq.html)
r ic_vehicle
I can't say how much energy it takes to produce a battery, But it certainly it does take some energy along with other natural resources. Judging from the price it may take more energy to produce the battery than the energy used throught the lifetime of the vehicle.
The biggest problem is that our current source of energy (fossil fuels) is terribly cheap, at the the expense of global warming ect... In average we only spend $1000 - $2000 a year on gas. This is what makes the choice of technology so difficult. It is very easy to come up with very energy efficient solutions at a high price and make vehicles that won't sell.
I personally don't even know what the price of fuel cell technology is. And how will the price decrease as production scales up. It may very well be that the price diferential that we now see for small production quantities reverse when production ramps up. Even when we might expect new battery technology to be cheaper and more efficient. This depends on new discoveries and developments in electrical/chemical processes that may not happen. This is true of other technologies too. Attempting to solve the problem from different angles seems a sensible thing to do.
An interesting reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid_elect
Cyc and hence the open version of it OpenCyc is a rule based AI system. Certain degree of AI is already available OCR, Speech recognition, even Google has some smarts in it. All these systems are mostly statistical. Many have intelligence built into the model design, but the actual numbers that make up the model have very little meaning. Bayesian networks to my taste capture the most info but they are still behind. But the jury is still out, what aproach will take the first mayor step towards a reasoning system. As for the statistical AI. I do buy the idea that ultimately the information that is being processed is not neccesarly as relevant as the final result. So eventualy a reasoning system can function on a purely statistical basis. And there is a chance that our brain is purely statistical. But it's development with human elements as a statistical machine it's to me unlikely. Now back to Cyc. If you download it, it will be difficult to use, you will find bugs inside it. Yes, juck they do exist. But it's a start. The biggest problem to fleshing this thing out is getting users to use it. Cycorp is no microsoft with hoardes of PR and Marketing people. And they have not documented every feature. But I think it's the most complete AI system out there. So is Cyc "the fledgling footsteps of an emerging AI?" or "the babbling beginnings of a bloated database?" I'll add my own. "a huge effort to acomplish something very difficult" "not terribly well documented" It's probably a little of each one. I personally think that there is a huge opportunity here. For people that are willing to work with Cycorp lack of support experience. Cycorp needs user input, and if/when they get it you will be surpriised of what is in the box. Everybody talks about the Killer app for AI, there is a good chance that app will have to do with Cyc. There are several people from Cycorp watching this thread. I hope I got some people interested. I would suggest you post questions if you have any.