Hey, I'm a childless adult so according to all the "parents" I've spoken with my opionions do not count.
Not sure why you chose to use the air quotes there. My guess is that if they have children, they really are actual parents. At least by any definition of the word that I've been exposed to.
Kids nowadays spend all their time in front of video games [...] Everything is planned and scheduled instead of impulse. [...] My observation is that this is fucked up.
Well, I think that you have based your observation on "facts". I can assure you that these "facts" do not apply in my family, nor do they apply in the families that we associate with. For instance, in our neighborhood, there are generally kids out playing something or other (tag, ball, shoot the nerf arrows, run around with and antagonize the dogs, etc.) There are usually, but not always, some adults out there chatting as well (and keeping half an eye on the kids). In our house, there are no video games for big people or little people, and no cable TV. We don't really have a set schedule of events for after work/school (unless you consider that time to be scheduled family time). We choose something to do as a family, and yes, little people get a say in the decision.
Also, consider the case of a coworker of mine. He's got his son signed up for sports and other activities. This might appear as overscheduling to the outside observer, but it happens to be the only way to get his son away from the playstation.
Also, be careful with your, "The child of $ACQUAINTANCE is already $AGE and does not perform $ACTIVITY. The world is going to $BAD_PLACE, in a $VEHICLE!" observations. Not all kids are interested in the same things that you are. They are their own people. They may be little people, but they are definitely individuals. They will not fail to remind you of this fact, either.
I'll take a J2EE app and deploy it on Windows for development and Solaris for production, and half the time I don't even consider that the underlying architecture is as different as night and day. The app just works in both places.
I can get fired for a moderate snafu. Fortunately I've enough saved up that we would eat anyway.
Exactly. Wake me when you're the owner.
Then why wasn't that the case with how it dinged our credit rating back in 2004? Did the law change?
You are way out of your element on credit reporting. There are no laws regarding credit scoring, only credit reporting (FCRA). Just so you know, a hard pull only gives you a temporary FICO ding of about 5 points. Hard pulls for car loans and mortgages are grouped together, so if you rate-shop, you only lose 5 points. My point is, if your FICO went way down in 2004, it was for some other reason. You probably had a late payment. or your balances on your credit cards went way up, or you closed your oldest line. Something like that. You wouldn't even notice a hard pull. Google it and get educated. This stuff is important for all Americans to know.
Mediation/court isn't cheap. Which is why LL's do it; they're gambling they can keep that deposit and their victims are too scared or too poor to pony up the cash to take them on.
Oh, c'mon. Small claims court costs under $100 in every jurisdiction I've ever heard of. My filings cost $49. Loser pays. So if you are so sure you're right, you've got nothing to lose. Also, poor people get legal aid for free, so your poor people argument is just wrong.
At any rate, what shady landlords are banking on is that, seriously, what is the penalty for just withholding the deposit and waiting to get sued? How many people will actually a) know that they can sue, b) know how to sue, and c) not be too lazy to figure it out? When they get sued, maybe, what, 10% of the time, just refund the deposit+court fees, and poof. No more complaint, so the suit is dismissed. That being said, it's a very short-sighted strategy, and is horrible business practice. LLs who do that are hurting themselves in the long run because word-of-mouth produces the best residents. Again, very very very few LLs pull stunts like that. Tenants, on the other hand... well... being a landlord is hard for a reason. There are a lot of tenants who know how to work the system. It's important to know how to weed those folks out. There are some great and ethical techniques, that I won't get into here.
Sure it does. It'll tell me how financially strapped you are, thus the likelihood that you're going to make me fight for my deposit. That's the same logic that you used with employee applicants.
Actually, it does not. What you want is my company's credit report. That will give you an idea of what type of landlord you are dealing with. Looking at my personal credit report tells you nothing.
If someone asked to see my company's D&B report... to tell the truth, I have no idea how I'd react. I'd probably just defer to a current tenant as a reference. If the applicant was really insistant, I'd probably just reject. I don't really want to know what the applicant was up to, and there are plenty of other people ready to rent the apartment. It's just not standard business practice, and I don't like surprises from my tenants.
Not even close. The standards for credit checking your contractors isn't the same as with renters. You explained the reasons for credit checking an employee and, one by one, I explained that there were more accurate alternatives.
Yup. Then I told you that I check my employees and contractors as well, and I told you why. I think you ignored that part.
Again, wake me when it's you who could be sued for your employees' misconduct. Until then, you just don't understand.
Likewise, you were way out of your league with regards to employment issues, what with me being a manager.
Wake me when you're the owner, then. Your own assets aren't on the line. Something goes wrong for you, you might get a reprimand from the owner. Something goes wrong for me, my family doesn't eat.
But that's a convenience. Why should your convenience be translated into a right to tear through someone's entire life? Do you realize that reading someone's credit rating brings their rating down?
Look, I'm going to need to run credit, anyhow. Why delay the inevitable?
And regarding the credit inquiry lowering their score, educate yourself about credit scores by googling soft pulls vs. hard pulls. When a LL pulls credit, it's a soft pull, which doesn't affect the credit score. Again, you're way out of your element on credit reporting, so that's ok that you didn't know that.
Also, I'm not sure where all this "pathetic worm" stuff comes from. Really, I'm just trying to prove that the applicant is not a pathetic worm. If I don't do an objective look into his/her past, how am I supposed to evaluate?
The thing is, a lot of landlords will do funky things like wait for a sucker who doesn't do a departure walk through in person, and say things like said renter had pet damage when there wasn't any, and deny their deposit. My wife had that happen to her and we had to go to mediation to get her money. You can't, like, post these complaints online or the landlords will threaten a libel suit! See how you guys are protected? (This is why, of course, I advise people to accompany a landlord in a walk through.)
I can definitely agree that there are some LLs out there who simply withhold the security deposit on everyone and say, "If you don't like it, sue me." Most people don't. But for those that do, just refund the deposit, and then there's no more complaint. Just so you know 99% of landlords would never do anything like that because it's bad business practice. Referrals from current residents are my best residents. Good people associate with good people.
Regarding your wife, she got her money. What's the problem? That's what mediation and small claims court are for. To resolve disputes like this. I'm sure the LL had his side of the story as well.
Regarding posting landlord reviews online, it's already done. Google for it. I don't read the tenant sites, but they are out there. If you really want to post something about your wife's former LL, nobody's stopping you. It's really more likely for a landlord to be sued, anyhow. If I ever have to provide a negative tenant reference, I'll simply say, "Let me check my records for the case number... can you hold?" 99% of the time, I don't even have to look up the case number. I've said what needs to be said.
Anyhow, you say you want to pry into a landlord's record, and I think that's smart to do. But you're not getting my credit report. It doesn't tell you anything you need to know about me.
Then I guess I need to ask the tenant how rigorous you guys are about keeping that gate closed. At our old apartment, in an upper class area, they refused to keep the gate closed. They dented our car and stole another.
I'm sorry for your loss. In the future, it might be a good idea to check with the local police department for accurate crime statistics in the neighborhood.
BTW how did renting manage to find its way into a discussion that started about employment background checks?
Excellent point. Ok, try this one on for size. I do the same screening process for an employee as I do for a renter. All of my handymen. All of my contractors. Anyone who gets a master key goes through a complete credit, reference, and criminal check. Why? Lawyers. If one of my employees should be accused of improper conduct, I could be sued for not screening properly. After all, why should I screen residents who get a key to one unit harder than a handyman who gets a master? That could be construed as negligence.
So there you have it. Credit checks for employees, and we're back on topic.
You're a little bit out of your element here with respect to landlord/tenant issues, but that's to be expected since you are not in the business. I'm happy to answer your questions, though.
Because taking the time means the report will be more accurate and less invasive? Why should others be victimized by someone else's sloppy, lazy, corner-cutting investigative tactics?
In my business, it's obvious. I price my units to rent, and I receive many applications. I simply don't have the time to spend 10 or 20 minutes on each application. If I can eliminate an application in 10 seconds for $10, you bet I'm going to do it.
But there's one other big reason that credit reports are better than not being "sloppy, lazy, etc." Some applicants check the "don't contact my current landlord without my permission" box, since they don't want their current LL to know that they are looking. I imagine that happens way more often in hiring situations. Candidates don't want their current employer to know that they are looking to leave, and I don't blame them. What do you do when you can't call on their current employer? Current Landlord data is not available from Uncle Sam.:-)
How about your record of screwing over other people for their rent deposit?
Well, if you ask that way, you're rejected. But if you were to ask, "What are your move-out policies related to security deposit refunds?" I would simply show you my standard moveout letter that says in the first paragraph, "We want to make sure that you receive your entire security deposit back. In order for us to do this, you will need to perform the following items:" At any rate, my credit report would not show my record of security deposit refunds.
Judgements for and against you in that regard?
Public record. Check the county courthouse.
How about your past maintenance issues?
Hopefully the condition of the unit will tell you what you need to know, but feel free to speak with any current tenant. I'll hold the unit for you once I receive a security deposit.
The thefts on your property? Actual security response time?
Here is where you are really out of your element. I can't answer questions about safety, because that opens up a huge liability for me. If I say my apartments are safe, and then god-forbid something happens, I could be sued for saying the apartment was safe when it proved not to be. My response it to refer any security-related questions to the police. They can provide factual crime rate data, and the applicant can make up his/her own mind. I will also encourage the applicant to examine the safety features of the property, to determine his/her comfort. Regarding security response time, there is nothing I can do if a crime is being committed. That's the law. I'm not the cops, so I can't do anything.
Your tenants are trusting you with their lives, not to mention their property.
I encourage all of my residents to obtain renter's insurance. It's very affordable, and protects against a variety of hazards, including theft.
The solution to this is kind of obvious. Call Harvard and get information from them directly.
That takes time and effort. My credit reports cost less than $10. It's a little different for me because I'm screening apartment rental applicants. But, seriously, if I can eliminate a deatbeat in 10 seconds, why should I waste my time trying to track down former landlords?
Why not just call his former employer and bypass the BS?
How do I know it's the candidate's former employer and not his Uncle Irving? If the credit report looks fishy, I'm going to be extra careful about who I'm speaking with on the phone.
How about renters being allowed to make inquiries upon the landlord's personal life?
I have no problem with lenders asking for my credit report. They are trying to decide whether or not to trust me with their assets, and I am willing to show them my creditworthiness. My renters are asking me to trust them with my assets, and I do expect them to provide a credit report.
I see no reason for my renters to inquire into my financial background. Perhaps if there were a good reason, I'd consider it. But as it stands, it's me who's being asked to trust the renter to pay reliably and not cause thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars worth of damage to my property. When I pull credit, I see every time a former landlord had to sue them for damage that they have caused. I see every time they failed to pay their utility bills and got them cut off (do you have any idea how much damage can result when you get your heat cut off, your pipes freeze and burst, and the water and mold go everywhere?). I see former landlords that they did not pay. Like I said, I don't look at the score. I look at the story.
Incidentally, I have had applicants inquire about my background. They ask how long I've been a landlord, and have asked to speak to current tenants. I like when they ask those kinds of questions, because it shows that they care. People who care tend to be good tenants. It is my understanding that employers like candidates who have researched the company, so I see it works similarly in the employment market.
The report didn't get a lot of press for obvious reasons.
Probably because the "study" is irrelevant? Hint: the majority of charter schools are for At Risk students. Gee whiz, do you think they're gonna score lower on their SOLs?
At least with charter schools, these students are actually going to school.
Sorry, no. Babies don't 'just happen'. Just like bad credit *you* have to take deliberate action for it to happen. (And modern birth control very, very, very rarely fails.
You know, I thought that as well. But since having a kid, I wind up meeting a lot of parents, and "oops's" happen way more than you might think. I know one couple where they had just gotten married, she was on the pill, and they were young and partying all the time. Well, she got pregnant, continued to have her period since she was on the pill, continued to party heavily because she never thought she was pregnant (she got her period each month!). She went to the doctor, I forget why, and was informed that she was pregnant. Thank god their daughter turned out fine (drinking alcohol and taking the pill while pregnant are HUGE no-nos), but what say you to that?
They thought that they were being responsible. Birth control fails. Fortunately, they were married and were able to raise a kid (it is a struggle for them). But, like I said, I hear an awful lot of "oops" stories. Different people respond to birth control better than others, I guess.
Easier than you might think to repair your credit. If you can go a full year making every payment, making it on time, and satisfying all of your accounts in collection/judgment, your credit will probably be good enough to get a mortgage. It may not be a super prime rate, but you can become a homeowner.
Actually, it can be done. I have friends who have private medical insurance because their employer's policy is so awful. So far, they have been happy with their coverage.
My wife has an extremely serious illness, requiring expensive treatment which really only delays the inevitable. In addition, I was without employment for 9 months. Please let me assure you that we are nowhere near bankruptcy, and we never were anywhere near bankruptcy.
We were saved by the following things:
Medical insurance
Sound financial planning
Don't get me wrong, it took a lot of thought on our parts regarding how to structure our finances to withstand periods of unemployment, as well as her health condition. But I just wanted to let you know that it is a gross misstatement to say that Americans are somehow "one illness away from bankruptcy."
Anyone with any sort of equitiy in a home or a good job should NEVER keep a balance on their credit card. Get a line of credit and transfer the credit card balance to it if you can't pay it off.
Be VERY careful giving or heeding that advice. I know that you know what part 2 of your little plan should be, but make sure that you are explicit about it if you give that advice. Part two is: Make triple sure that you can make your consolidated mortgage payment, and cut up your credit cards.
So many people charge up their cards, pay the cards off with a HELOC, and then charge up the cards again. Eventually, you will have to pay the piper, and you've upped the stakes with your HELOC technique. Remember, if you don't pay your credit card bills, your credit card issuer will get mad and call you every day and demand payment. If you don't pay your Mortgage, your bank will simply take your house and kick you out onto the street.
There is a reason why Mortage interest rates are lower. The loan is secured by your means of shelter. Most people don't like to live on the street.
I can't imagine that any company would ever replace the entire interviewing and screening process with a FICO score. The four folks that you mentioned would probably have difficulties getting jobs now, good credit or bad.
I don't think you've fully thought through your policy. Remember, there is a lot more on a credit report than a credit score. I run credit on every applicant for one of my apartments, and while I totally ignore the score, the information on the report is invaluable, and I use it extensively.
Off the top of my head, I can think of two things that would be of particular interest to you: Address History and Judgments.
For Address History, let's say your job applicant's resume says he went to Harvard from 1995-1999. But his address history shows he lived in Oklahoma during that time. Shows you that you'd better verify that degree really exists. Ditto, if he says he worked for Google in Palo Alto, but during that time he really lived in Arkansas. Better call that former employer.
Judgments show you whether or not this guy could be a liability to your company. If this guy has been sued and lost a bunch of times, do you really want him in your office stealing computers, sexually harassing your HR department, and saying "the wrong things" to your clients? You might want to figure out what is going on there before you invite this walking liability to represent your company.
As for me, I just want to see the "story". I look at the things I just mentioned, but what I really want to know is when an applicant says, "I got divorced finalized in '04 and it totally wrecked my finances. I'm just trying to pick up the pieces, and I haven't had a single late or missed payment in the last 12 months," that he or she is telling the truth. What I want to see is pretty good history up until '04, and then a total disaster, and then no lates/missings for the last 12 months or so. His FICO will still be abyssmal, but if he's told me the truth, I won't hold the low FICO against him. Assuming the rest of his app checks out, I'll rent to him.
A lack of credit shouldn't keep you from getting a job. It will probably be considered a plus.
HR Gal #1: I saw the strangest thing today. When I tried to run this job applicant's credit, it came up as "no data found".
HR Gal #2: Oh, I saw that before. Someone tried to give us a fake SSN.
HR Gal #1: That makes sense. Looks like we dodges a bullet on this one. NEXT!
Don't think I'm kidding. On rental apps, if someone comes up as a "no data" without a verifiable reason why, it's automatic rejection. Usually, that means a "no data" won't get the apartment, because by the time I can verify the reason and get a cosigner with credit, I've already rented the unit.
Martha lied to federal investigators, which is a crime.
Sure, Dunn may have "sanctioned" illegal acts, but to what extent? And what can be proved? If she hired a private dick and said, "I need to know which board members are leaking info to reporters. Your job is to find out," I'm not sure she would be guilty of any crime. It's not like she told the PI to use pretexting or any other illegal means, if that is what she said. And even if she did ask specifically for cellphone records, did she say to use pretexting to get them?
And more importantly, can you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt?
Passwords aren't too helpful. They don't stand up to well to, "I'm sorry, but I've forgotten my password." They you just default back to the old personal info questions.
He's not saying don't use RBLs, he's saying don't just automatically reject email based on one RBL hit. Use RBLs as just one factor in the mail acceptance logic.
If I were your customer, and my clients weren't able to email me because you won't allow their email to go through, you don't deserve my business.
Do yourself a favor: talk to a lawyer who is familiar with retail and shoplifting about your "tackling shoplifters across the street" policy. The rules for handling shoplifters vary from state to state, and there are big penalties for violating them.
It's worth an hour of somebody's time to help you develop a sound policy.
For what it's worth, I'm not aware of any state that allows your employee to do what he did. You dodged a huge liability bullet on that one.
Slashdot Mirror
And you should recalibrate your sarcasm detector before you hit the Submit button.
Also, consider the case of a coworker of mine. He's got his son signed up for sports and other activities. This might appear as overscheduling to the outside observer, but it happens to be the only way to get his son away from the playstation.
Also, be careful with your, "The child of $ACQUAINTANCE is already $AGE and does not perform $ACTIVITY. The world is going to $BAD_PLACE, in a $VEHICLE!" observations. Not all kids are interested in the same things that you are. They are their own people. They may be little people, but they are definitely individuals. They will not fail to remind you of this fact, either.
I'll take a J2EE app and deploy it on Windows for development and Solaris for production, and half the time I don't even consider that the underlying architecture is as different as night and day. The app just works in both places.
At any rate, what shady landlords are banking on is that, seriously, what is the penalty for just withholding the deposit and waiting to get sued? How many people will actually a) know that they can sue, b) know how to sue, and c) not be too lazy to figure it out? When they get sued, maybe, what, 10% of the time, just refund the deposit+court fees, and poof. No more complaint, so the suit is dismissed. That being said, it's a very short-sighted strategy, and is horrible business practice. LLs who do that are hurting themselves in the long run because word-of-mouth produces the best residents. Again, very very very few LLs pull stunts like that. Tenants, on the other hand... well... being a landlord is hard for a reason. There are a lot of tenants who know how to work the system. It's important to know how to weed those folks out. There are some great and ethical techniques, that I won't get into here.
Actually, it does not. What you want is my company's credit report. That will give you an idea of what type of landlord you are dealing with. Looking at my personal credit report tells you nothing.If someone asked to see my company's D&B report... to tell the truth, I have no idea how I'd react. I'd probably just defer to a current tenant as a reference. If the applicant was really insistant, I'd probably just reject. I don't really want to know what the applicant was up to, and there are plenty of other people ready to rent the apartment. It's just not standard business practice, and I don't like surprises from my tenants.
Yup. Then I told you that I check my employees and contractors as well, and I told you why. I think you ignored that part.Again, wake me when it's you who could be sued for your employees' misconduct. Until then, you just don't understand.
And regarding the credit inquiry lowering their score, educate yourself about credit scores by googling soft pulls vs. hard pulls. When a LL pulls credit, it's a soft pull, which doesn't affect the credit score. Again, you're way out of your element on credit reporting, so that's ok that you didn't know that.
Also, I'm not sure where all this "pathetic worm" stuff comes from. Really, I'm just trying to prove that the applicant is not a pathetic worm. If I don't do an objective look into his/her past, how am I supposed to evaluate?
I can definitely agree that there are some LLs out there who simply withhold the security deposit on everyone and say, "If you don't like it, sue me." Most people don't. But for those that do, just refund the deposit, and then there's no more complaint. Just so you know 99% of landlords would never do anything like that because it's bad business practice. Referrals from current residents are my best residents. Good people associate with good people.Regarding your wife, she got her money. What's the problem? That's what mediation and small claims court are for. To resolve disputes like this. I'm sure the LL had his side of the story as well.
Regarding posting landlord reviews online, it's already done. Google for it. I don't read the tenant sites, but they are out there. If you really want to post something about your wife's former LL, nobody's stopping you. It's really more likely for a landlord to be sued, anyhow. If I ever have to provide a negative tenant reference, I'll simply say, "Let me check my records for the case number... can you hold?" 99% of the time, I don't even have to look up the case number. I've said what needs to be said.
Anyhow, you say you want to pry into a landlord's record, and I think that's smart to do. But you're not getting my credit report. It doesn't tell you anything you need to know about me.
I'm sorry for your loss. In the future, it might be a good idea to check with the local police department for accurate crime statistics in the neighborhood. Excellent point. Ok, try this one on for size. I do the same screening process for an employee as I do for a renter. All of my handymen. All of my contractors. Anyone who gets a master key goes through a complete credit, reference, and criminal check. Why? Lawyers. If one of my employees should be accused of improper conduct, I could be sued for not screening properly. After all, why should I screen residents who get a key to one unit harder than a handyman who gets a master? That could be construed as negligence.So there you have it. Credit checks for employees, and we're back on topic.
But there's one other big reason that credit reports are better than not being "sloppy, lazy, etc." Some applicants check the "don't contact my current landlord without my permission" box, since they don't want their current LL to know that they are looking. I imagine that happens way more often in hiring situations. Candidates don't want their current employer to know that they are looking to leave, and I don't blame them. What do you do when you can't call on their current employer? Current Landlord data is not available from Uncle Sam. :-)
Well, if you ask that way, you're rejected. But if you were to ask, "What are your move-out policies related to security deposit refunds?" I would simply show you my standard moveout letter that says in the first paragraph, "We want to make sure that you receive your entire security deposit back. In order for us to do this, you will need to perform the following items:" At any rate, my credit report would not show my record of security deposit refunds. Public record. Check the county courthouse. Hopefully the condition of the unit will tell you what you need to know, but feel free to speak with any current tenant. I'll hold the unit for you once I receive a security deposit. Here is where you are really out of your element. I can't answer questions about safety, because that opens up a huge liability for me. If I say my apartments are safe, and then god-forbid something happens, I could be sued for saying the apartment was safe when it proved not to be. My response it to refer any security-related questions to the police. They can provide factual crime rate data, and the applicant can make up his/her own mind. I will also encourage the applicant to examine the safety features of the property, to determine his/her comfort. Regarding security response time, there is nothing I can do if a crime is being committed. That's the law. I'm not the cops, so I can't do anything. I encourage all of my residents to obtain renter's insurance. It's very affordable, and protects against a variety of hazards, including theft.Hopefully that answers some of your questions.
I see no reason for my renters to inquire into my financial background. Perhaps if there were a good reason, I'd consider it. But as it stands, it's me who's being asked to trust the renter to pay reliably and not cause thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars worth of damage to my property. When I pull credit, I see every time a former landlord had to sue them for damage that they have caused. I see every time they failed to pay their utility bills and got them cut off (do you have any idea how much damage can result when you get your heat cut off, your pipes freeze and burst, and the water and mold go everywhere?). I see former landlords that they did not pay. Like I said, I don't look at the score. I look at the story.
Incidentally, I have had applicants inquire about my background. They ask how long I've been a landlord, and have asked to speak to current tenants. I like when they ask those kinds of questions, because it shows that they care. People who care tend to be good tenants. It is my understanding that employers like candidates who have researched the company, so I see it works similarly in the employment market.
At least with charter schools, these students are actually going to school.
They thought that they were being responsible. Birth control fails. Fortunately, they were married and were able to raise a kid (it is a struggle for them). But, like I said, I hear an awful lot of "oops" stories. Different people respond to birth control better than others, I guess.
Easier than you might think to repair your credit. If you can go a full year making every payment, making it on time, and satisfying all of your accounts in collection/judgment, your credit will probably be good enough to get a mortgage. It may not be a super prime rate, but you can become a homeowner.
Actually, it can be done. I have friends who have private medical insurance because their employer's policy is so awful. So far, they have been happy with their coverage.
We were saved by the following things:
- Medical insurance
- Sound financial planning
Don't get me wrong, it took a lot of thought on our parts regarding how to structure our finances to withstand periods of unemployment, as well as her health condition. But I just wanted to let you know that it is a gross misstatement to say that Americans are somehow "one illness away from bankruptcy."If employers weren't getting information that they deemed to be valuable from them, they wouldn't do 'em.
So many people charge up their cards, pay the cards off with a HELOC, and then charge up the cards again. Eventually, you will have to pay the piper, and you've upped the stakes with your HELOC technique. Remember, if you don't pay your credit card bills, your credit card issuer will get mad and call you every day and demand payment. If you don't pay your Mortgage, your bank will simply take your house and kick you out onto the street.
There is a reason why Mortage interest rates are lower. The loan is secured by your means of shelter. Most people don't like to live on the street.
Where are the houses located? I may be able to help.
I can't imagine that any company would ever replace the entire interviewing and screening process with a FICO score. The four folks that you mentioned would probably have difficulties getting jobs now, good credit or bad.
Off the top of my head, I can think of two things that would be of particular interest to you: Address History and Judgments.
For Address History, let's say your job applicant's resume says he went to Harvard from 1995-1999. But his address history shows he lived in Oklahoma during that time. Shows you that you'd better verify that degree really exists. Ditto, if he says he worked for Google in Palo Alto, but during that time he really lived in Arkansas. Better call that former employer.
Judgments show you whether or not this guy could be a liability to your company. If this guy has been sued and lost a bunch of times, do you really want him in your office stealing computers, sexually harassing your HR department, and saying "the wrong things" to your clients? You might want to figure out what is going on there before you invite this walking liability to represent your company.
As for me, I just want to see the "story". I look at the things I just mentioned, but what I really want to know is when an applicant says, "I got divorced finalized in '04 and it totally wrecked my finances. I'm just trying to pick up the pieces, and I haven't had a single late or missed payment in the last 12 months," that he or she is telling the truth. What I want to see is pretty good history up until '04, and then a total disaster, and then no lates/missings for the last 12 months or so. His FICO will still be abyssmal, but if he's told me the truth, I won't hold the low FICO against him. Assuming the rest of his app checks out, I'll rent to him.
HR Gal #2: Oh, I saw that before. Someone tried to give us a fake SSN.
HR Gal #1: That makes sense. Looks like we dodges a bullet on this one. NEXT!
Don't think I'm kidding. On rental apps, if someone comes up as a "no data" without a verifiable reason why, it's automatic rejection. Usually, that means a "no data" won't get the apartment, because by the time I can verify the reason and get a cosigner with credit, I've already rented the unit.
Write back in 5 years and let us know how your little "rules" worked out for you.
You'll learn.
Sure, Dunn may have "sanctioned" illegal acts, but to what extent? And what can be proved? If she hired a private dick and said, "I need to know which board members are leaking info to reporters. Your job is to find out," I'm not sure she would be guilty of any crime. It's not like she told the PI to use pretexting or any other illegal means, if that is what she said. And even if she did ask specifically for cellphone records, did she say to use pretexting to get them?
And more importantly, can you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt?
Passwords aren't too helpful. They don't stand up to well to, "I'm sorry, but I've forgotten my password." They you just default back to the old personal info questions.
Not that I condone renting at blockbuster or anything... they're super expensive... but I just wanted to clear up your misinformation.
If I were your customer, and my clients weren't able to email me because you won't allow their email to go through, you don't deserve my business.
It's worth an hour of somebody's time to help you develop a sound policy.
For what it's worth, I'm not aware of any state that allows your employee to do what he did. You dodged a huge liability bullet on that one.