You seem to think that the industrial revolution was somehow separate from adoption of free market policies. It isn't. The two go hand in hand together. Look at ANY economy that has ever industrialized, and you will find that to be the case. Even "communist" China has economic policies that would make lovers of big government shriek (they spend less than half of what we spend on government, only 20% of GDP versus our 43%).
And I did NOT forget the market crash that followed the end of the era of economic freedom, nor the economic depression that followed that. Thing is, those were caused by the adoption of a central bank (which marked the end of the mostly free market in the United States), just like most major market panics, and just like most depressions (with the remainder being caused by war--the only thing that gives central banks a run for their money in terms of capital destruction). Those weren't caused by "regulations", they were caused by the abandonment of free market regulation, ie we had central authorities propping up favors banks until they couldn't, and then sudden huge crashes, when one or two should have failed, while the others adjusted their risk positions.
Go to any university and marvel at all the shiny new buildings. Take a survey of the administrative positions, and find out how many there are today versus 10, 20, 30, and 40 years ago. The local university just saw its administrative staff nearly double with the inclusion of a provost, who wanted a bunch of vice-provosts, who each wanted support staff, etc. And new buildings everywhere. Not to mention the Rec center put in a god damn lazy river.
Also note that some of the money does go to professors, but in the form of textbook kickbacks, which is why textbooks are an order of magnitude more expensive than similarly sized and similarly themed books that are not for students.
I doubt they were subsidized by the FEDERAL government, which is the point here. If the states want to do it, that is their business, and the business of their residents if they want to expand or abolish them.
You don't get it. He was first pissy about RP not working a minimum wage job. I pointed out the fact that he doesn't even make minimum wage as a congressman, then he said that he was "rich" so he "couldn't understand", which is just stupid, because he worked his way up and saved and is now wealthy.
Class warfare is stupid, especially when you wage it on the only champion of WE THE PEOPLE in congress.
No, SOME interest is subsidized. Most is not. Depends on whether you have subsidized or unsubsidized loans. The latter is the larger program, as I recall.
How about simply reducing the cost of school, rathe than providing infinite monies for schools to spend on new fooseball stadiums and statues honoring their regents?
I see, so you prefer profusion and servitude to economy and freedom.
Also, please note that correlation is not causation. You seem to be implying that college does all these wondrous things like lowering unemployment and increasing lifespan, rather than noting the obvious sorting effect that stems from admissions requirements. Did you actually learn anything in college, or did you take on a lifetime of debt for no real reason?
$5700 a year in 1950's dollars? I think you mean $5700 a year in 2011 dollars. Which means you did NOT have to be wealthy to go to college. It is not uncommon to see state school tuitions near $20K/year today. If it was $5700 a year, I would have been able to work summers and pay for most or all of my schooling without loans OR scholarships.
Show me some place where government money isn't flowing in that the costs just keep rising and rising and rising faster than inflation.
The same thing is happening with medical care (the only form of medical care that has decreasing costs is the cosmetic surgery industry, where neither government nor insurance money is accepted), and the same thing happened with the housing bubble (hell, as a student WITH NO JOB I got a loan to buy a house--insanity now that I think about it).
That is a very interesting program. If only the states were free to innovate in such a manner in all fields currently controlled by the Federal Government.
No, people come out of public universities with just as much debt as private ones.
The truth is, we do need fewer college graduates. We need fewer english literature grads, fewer art majors, fewer political science majors. Freely available student loans pushes people into these non-earning and minimally productive fields. Instead, we need engineers, scientists, doctors, etc. And we sure as HELL don't need them graduating with tens or hundreds of thousands in student debt.
If the federal government must stick its nose into education, let them give grants. If they must give loans, they should make them dischargeable after a certain period (with severe credit implications, if you must). But giving out unlimited loans and garnishing wages to pay them back, even going so far as to take payments out of social security retirement payments is just EVIL.
No, what brought us the S&L collapse and then the "Wall Street" meltdown (characterizing it as limited to Wall Street is fantastically ignorant, as numerous sovereigns are now on the verge of collapse) was the Federal Reserve's implicit then EXPLICIT backstop of the financial system. They refused to allow bad companies to fail (mixed market), and as such, those companies were free to take greater and greater risks until one big risk went bad and we had the 2008 collapse. Now it is even worse.
Enron was accounting fraud, and the regulators were CAPTURED. No amount of regulation is going to save you when the regulators themselves are in bed with the fraudsters.
I'm afraid it is you that is the idiot, anonymous. You refuse to see cause and effect, and you refuse to understand history, and as such, you, and others like you, doom us all to repeat it.
What is wrong with that, considering that slavery has been rightfully abolished? Congressional terms were created to be fairly short for a reason, people were supposed to serve a term or two, and then go back home. Now we have career politicians who really DON'T understand. They have never had to work or even to think to get their money. It just pours in from outrageous salaries and legal bribes. Are you sure that these are the people you want in charge of your monetary and fiscal policy? Look at what it has gotten you!
A lifetime of owning a medical practice has left him with quite a bit of money to retire on. Rather than sit on his patoot at home, he chooses to apply his knowledge of the federal government and the Federal Reserve to try to return freedom to America.
Uh, he worked hard his whole life and accumulated savings (even going so far as to leave congress for some time to resume his medical practice), and wisely invested those savings in commodities, betting on continued dollar devaluation that he has spent his whole career fighting against. He knows the root cause of our economic turmoil, and railed against it long before anyone else even realized it was a problem (speaking about the housing bubble in 2002, for instance). But he doesn't "understand what its like to be poor", so he is not allowed to try to put a stop to indentured servitude.
Wow, nice way to set up a situation where literally anyone who argues against your case has no right. Either they are independently wealthy, and they have no right to ask us to stand on our own two feet, or they take money from the government, and therefore they are hypocrites.
And how EXACTLY do you figure that student LOANS are a part of the safety net? Notice these aren't GRANT programs he is calling to end. Or did you forget about the tens of thousands of dollars of non-dischargeable student debt that you are likely stifling under?
Ron Paul gets little or no money from the rich elite, who hate him because he fights against the creeping fascism that made and keeps the rich elite both rich and elite.
Lots of anonymous slander against Ron Paul in this thread.
He is bribed with campaign contributions. BY THE PEOPLE. He attracts a huge number of small donations, much of which comes from the military (ie servicemen and women) who rightfully want these unjust wars to end.
Compare Paul's contribution sources to any other Presidential candidate, and you will see something interesting. I'll give you a clue--the bankers hate him, but they love EVERY SINGLE OTHER CANDIDATE. That alone makes him worth considering.
Yes, like the last time it was applied, from 1875-1913 in the USA. You know, the time where the US went from being a colonial backwater to an industrial superpower.
Oh, or did you mean to imply that the disaster that is today's economy was caused by the free market? Well, you can't have a free market when the government is intervening every five minutes to keep some company from collapsing. Can't even have one when you have a central bank that sets interest rates. What we have now is a MIXED market. The MIXED market has failed us.
I guess the fact that higher education costs are spiraling out of control even as the jobs these degrees are supposed to help you to get have all but disappeared means nothing to you?
If you like indentured servitude so much, why don't you use your useless advanced degree to build a time machine and go back to 1720?
Subsidized student loans are "free" money that enslaves most for a lifetime, moreso today than at any time in living memory. There was a time when working part time over the summer would be enough to pay ALL college expenses, now you have to work some 35 hours a week during the semester plus full time in the summer and over breaks. This is outrageous.
My grandmother got Alzheimers and forgot where she was one day, and took a shit in a closet. How do you think a six year old would interpret such an action by an old man, but in her bedroom?
The point is, don't murder people who aren't posing an imminent threat. Period. It doesn't matter how much they violated your morality. Let the courts take care of that shit.
More anecdotes--I have been mistaken for a countless number of old flames by a large number of senile women (when I used to volunteer in a nursing home). The shit that came out of some of these women's mouth I ain't never heard. Note that I was quite underaged at the time, but tall for my age.
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Lots of cowards crowing at the moon today. Seems like you people pop out of the woodwork for ever Ron Paul story across the whole internet.
You seem to think that the industrial revolution was somehow separate from adoption of free market policies. It isn't. The two go hand in hand together. Look at ANY economy that has ever industrialized, and you will find that to be the case. Even "communist" China has economic policies that would make lovers of big government shriek (they spend less than half of what we spend on government, only 20% of GDP versus our 43%).
And I did NOT forget the market crash that followed the end of the era of economic freedom, nor the economic depression that followed that. Thing is, those were caused by the adoption of a central bank (which marked the end of the mostly free market in the United States), just like most major market panics, and just like most depressions (with the remainder being caused by war--the only thing that gives central banks a run for their money in terms of capital destruction). Those weren't caused by "regulations", they were caused by the abandonment of free market regulation, ie we had central authorities propping up favors banks until they couldn't, and then sudden huge crashes, when one or two should have failed, while the others adjusted their risk positions.
Go to any university and marvel at all the shiny new buildings. Take a survey of the administrative positions, and find out how many there are today versus 10, 20, 30, and 40 years ago. The local university just saw its administrative staff nearly double with the inclusion of a provost, who wanted a bunch of vice-provosts, who each wanted support staff, etc. And new buildings everywhere. Not to mention the Rec center put in a god damn lazy river.
Also note that some of the money does go to professors, but in the form of textbook kickbacks, which is why textbooks are an order of magnitude more expensive than similarly sized and similarly themed books that are not for students.
Note that Ron Paul is not getting rid of state subsidies, only Federal loans.
I doubt they were subsidized by the FEDERAL government, which is the point here. If the states want to do it, that is their business, and the business of their residents if they want to expand or abolish them.
You don't get it. He was first pissy about RP not working a minimum wage job. I pointed out the fact that he doesn't even make minimum wage as a congressman, then he said that he was "rich" so he "couldn't understand", which is just stupid, because he worked his way up and saved and is now wealthy.
Class warfare is stupid, especially when you wage it on the only champion of WE THE PEOPLE in congress.
No, SOME interest is subsidized. Most is not. Depends on whether you have subsidized or unsubsidized loans. The latter is the larger program, as I recall.
How about simply reducing the cost of school, rathe than providing infinite monies for schools to spend on new fooseball stadiums and statues honoring their regents?
I see, so you prefer profusion and servitude to economy and freedom.
Also, please note that correlation is not causation. You seem to be implying that college does all these wondrous things like lowering unemployment and increasing lifespan, rather than noting the obvious sorting effect that stems from admissions requirements. Did you actually learn anything in college, or did you take on a lifetime of debt for no real reason?
$5700 a year in 1950's dollars? I think you mean $5700 a year in 2011 dollars. Which means you did NOT have to be wealthy to go to college. It is not uncommon to see state school tuitions near $20K/year today. If it was $5700 a year, I would have been able to work summers and pay for most or all of my schooling without loans OR scholarships.
Show me some place where government money isn't flowing in that the costs just keep rising and rising and rising faster than inflation.
The same thing is happening with medical care (the only form of medical care that has decreasing costs is the cosmetic surgery industry, where neither government nor insurance money is accepted), and the same thing happened with the housing bubble (hell, as a student WITH NO JOB I got a loan to buy a house--insanity now that I think about it).
That is a very interesting program. If only the states were free to innovate in such a manner in all fields currently controlled by the Federal Government.
No, people come out of public universities with just as much debt as private ones.
The truth is, we do need fewer college graduates. We need fewer english literature grads, fewer art majors, fewer political science majors. Freely available student loans pushes people into these non-earning and minimally productive fields. Instead, we need engineers, scientists, doctors, etc. And we sure as HELL don't need them graduating with tens or hundreds of thousands in student debt.
If the federal government must stick its nose into education, let them give grants. If they must give loans, they should make them dischargeable after a certain period (with severe credit implications, if you must). But giving out unlimited loans and garnishing wages to pay them back, even going so far as to take payments out of social security retirement payments is just EVIL.
No, what brought us the S&L collapse and then the "Wall Street" meltdown (characterizing it as limited to Wall Street is fantastically ignorant, as numerous sovereigns are now on the verge of collapse) was the Federal Reserve's implicit then EXPLICIT backstop of the financial system. They refused to allow bad companies to fail (mixed market), and as such, those companies were free to take greater and greater risks until one big risk went bad and we had the 2008 collapse. Now it is even worse.
Enron was accounting fraud, and the regulators were CAPTURED. No amount of regulation is going to save you when the regulators themselves are in bed with the fraudsters.
I'm afraid it is you that is the idiot, anonymous. You refuse to see cause and effect, and you refuse to understand history, and as such, you, and others like you, doom us all to repeat it.
What is wrong with that, considering that slavery has been rightfully abolished? Congressional terms were created to be fairly short for a reason, people were supposed to serve a term or two, and then go back home. Now we have career politicians who really DON'T understand. They have never had to work or even to think to get their money. It just pours in from outrageous salaries and legal bribes. Are you sure that these are the people you want in charge of your monetary and fiscal policy? Look at what it has gotten you!
A lifetime of owning a medical practice has left him with quite a bit of money to retire on. Rather than sit on his patoot at home, he chooses to apply his knowledge of the federal government and the Federal Reserve to try to return freedom to America.
Uh, he worked hard his whole life and accumulated savings (even going so far as to leave congress for some time to resume his medical practice), and wisely invested those savings in commodities, betting on continued dollar devaluation that he has spent his whole career fighting against. He knows the root cause of our economic turmoil, and railed against it long before anyone else even realized it was a problem (speaking about the housing bubble in 2002, for instance). But he doesn't "understand what its like to be poor", so he is not allowed to try to put a stop to indentured servitude.
Wow, nice way to set up a situation where literally anyone who argues against your case has no right. Either they are independently wealthy, and they have no right to ask us to stand on our own two feet, or they take money from the government, and therefore they are hypocrites.
And how EXACTLY do you figure that student LOANS are a part of the safety net? Notice these aren't GRANT programs he is calling to end. Or did you forget about the tens of thousands of dollars of non-dischargeable student debt that you are likely stifling under?
Ron Paul gets little or no money from the rich elite, who hate him because he fights against the creeping fascism that made and keeps the rich elite both rich and elite.
Lots of anonymous slander against Ron Paul in this thread.
He is bribed with campaign contributions. BY THE PEOPLE. He attracts a huge number of small donations, much of which comes from the military (ie servicemen and women) who rightfully want these unjust wars to end.
Compare Paul's contribution sources to any other Presidential candidate, and you will see something interesting. I'll give you a clue--the bankers hate him, but they love EVERY SINGLE OTHER CANDIDATE. That alone makes him worth considering.
Yes, like the last time it was applied, from 1875-1913 in the USA. You know, the time where the US went from being a colonial backwater to an industrial superpower.
Oh, or did you mean to imply that the disaster that is today's economy was caused by the free market? Well, you can't have a free market when the government is intervening every five minutes to keep some company from collapsing. Can't even have one when you have a central bank that sets interest rates. What we have now is a MIXED market. The MIXED market has failed us.
I guess the fact that higher education costs are spiraling out of control even as the jobs these degrees are supposed to help you to get have all but disappeared means nothing to you?
If you like indentured servitude so much, why don't you use your useless advanced degree to build a time machine and go back to 1720?
Not having worldwide military bases is "isolationist"?
Then I guess it is time we join the rest of the world in being "isolationist".
He gives back his salary every year. He makes NO money off of being a Congressman.
Subsidized student loans are "free" money that enslaves most for a lifetime, moreso today than at any time in living memory. There was a time when working part time over the summer would be enough to pay ALL college expenses, now you have to work some 35 hours a week during the semester plus full time in the summer and over breaks. This is outrageous.
My grandmother got Alzheimers and forgot where she was one day, and took a shit in a closet. How do you think a six year old would interpret such an action by an old man, but in her bedroom?
The point is, don't murder people who aren't posing an imminent threat. Period. It doesn't matter how much they violated your morality. Let the courts take care of that shit.
More anecdotes--I have been mistaken for a countless number of old flames by a large number of senile women (when I used to volunteer in a nursing home). The shit that came out of some of these women's mouth I ain't never heard. Note that I was quite underaged at the time, but tall for my age.