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Most people couldn't start up AutoCAD and draw a cube, let alone a house. Heck, even starting up AutoCAD at all can be a bit involved. That is the single worst interface *ever* (ignoring the list of just about every app written using Motif) - unless you spend a year or two of your life memorizing all of the command line stuff. It's like vi, except with the same concepts applied to toolbars and less general use.

Sorry, </rant>. I was trying to build some stuff (a desk) using 80/20 parts a while back, and ended up using AutoCAD (they provide an AutoCAD plugin that generates a bill of materials, etc) as a great way to waste weeks of my time rather than just drawing it out to scale on graph paper or something simple like that.

As an example, I was looking at 80/20's site. They bill themselves as a supplier of "the industrial erector set", selling all manner of parts and services to build just about anything out of extruded T-slotted aluminum.

They claim to be able to save you money as compared to traditional steel metal work, by using an example of a small table-like structure.

Now, I believe this claim when it comes to using their products for industrial fabrication, or whereever you are going to need to hire skilled labor to build the system, or you need the time savings. A quick look would lead you to believe that "well, I should go with 80/20 for everything - it is so much cheaper!" - but what if you are building something for your home? Is it still cheaper?

Take a look at that comparison page again - notice where the cost savings are?

That's right - it is all in the labor. Provided you already own and know how to use steel welding/machining equipment (ie, the basics - a cheap welder, safety equipment, various clamps, angle grinder/cutoff saw) - suddenly the 80/20 solution becomes much, MUCH more expensive. The 80/20 solution saves you money on time expenditures - but if you remove that from the equation for the steel side (home improvement project) - you quickly see that the steel version would only cost about $35.00, whereas the 80/20 solution would still cost over $130.00!

Likely, the end result of the steel table (provided the welds are good), while being heavier, would actually by much, MUCH stronger (probably could support a vehicle), whereas the aluminum - while of lighter weight, would be less durable under extreme stress (now, if the aluminum was welded, instead of bolted together - welds will almost always be stronger than other mechanical joints).

So, the steel version takes longer to build, but is stronger and much cheaper (3-4 times), whereas the 80/20 solutions looks better and takes less time to put together, but is likely less durable and cost much more to purchase.

Most people would look at all of it, and decide to spend the money to offset the time and headache of welding by using 80/20. Others would rather not be lazy, and instead build the more durable solution out of welded steel.

Please note that I am not critical of 80/20's product - the product seems to be a great solution for many problems where you need strength, light-weight, and cheap labor to assemble - perfect for very large or complex jobs. With that said, however, it is not a cost-effective solution for do-it-yourself one-off projects, unless you like throwing money at a problem and not doing any work (in which case, it is probably cheaper to buy a comparable pre-built product, instead)...

As an example, I was looking at 80/20's site. They bill themselves as a supplier of "the industrial erector set", selling all manner of parts and services to build just about anything out of extruded T-slotted aluminum.

They claim to be able to save you money as compared to traditional steel metal work, by using an example of a small table-like structure.

Now, I believe this claim when it comes to using their products for industrial fabrication, or whereever you are going to need to hire skilled labor to build the system, or you need the time savings. A quick look would lead you to believe that "well, I should go with 80/20 for everything - it is so much cheaper!" - but what if you are building something for your home? Is it still cheaper?

Take a look at that comparison page again - notice where the cost savings are?

That's right - it is all in the labor. Provided you already own and know how to use steel welding/machining equipment (ie, the basics - a cheap welder, safety equipment, various clamps, angle grinder/cutoff saw) - suddenly the 80/20 solution becomes much, MUCH more expensive. The 80/20 solution saves you money on time expenditures - but if you remove that from the equation for the steel side (home improvement project) - you quickly see that the steel version would only cost about $35.00, whereas the 80/20 solution would still cost over $130.00!

Likely, the end result of the steel table (provided the welds are good), while being heavier, would actually by much, MUCH stronger (probably could support a vehicle), whereas the aluminum - while of lighter weight, would be less durable under extreme stress (now, if the aluminum was welded, instead of bolted together - welds will almost always be stronger than other mechanical joints).

So, the steel version takes longer to build, but is stronger and much cheaper (3-4 times), whereas the 80/20 solutions looks better and takes less time to put together, but is likely less durable and cost much more to purchase.

Most people would look at all of it, and decide to spend the money to offset the time and headache of welding by using 80/20. Others would rather not be lazy, and instead build the more durable solution out of welded steel.

Please note that I am not critical of 80/20's product - the product seems to be a great solution for many problems where you need strength, light-weight, and cheap labor to assemble - perfect for very large or complex jobs. With that said, however, it is not a cost-effective solution for do-it-yourself one-off projects, unless you like throwing money at a problem and not doing any work (in which case, it is probably cheaper to buy a comparable pre-built product, instead)...

This looks like a reduced-scale version of 80/20, an industrial product typically used for building custom workbenches, robot chassis and the like. I wonder how the prices compare. The 80/20 web site is here: http://www.8020.net/

If you wanted more flexibility than you get from a kit, you could try 80/20 aluminum extrusion. They have various hardware, plastic panels, etc.

I was also going to suggest some lego's or erector sets as a platform for the
stepper motors, but then I came across this link
to a company called 80/20 that makes Industrial Erector Sets.

So for $20, a few broken floppy drives (for stepper motors), an Erector set
and an old computer, you can give this guy the building blocks he needs to build
his own robots. Right now mine runs from an old Pentium 133 laptop in dos.
It may not be cutting edge but controlling real world objects by programming
your computer is a great way to get someone's wheels spinning. If you really want this thing expensive, get the guy the "Industrial Erector Set" peices and the latest greatest Athlon PC.

You might consider the aluminum structural framing used in a lot of custom industrial equipment. This is basically bolt-together aluminum channel. It is fairly easy to put together, makes a very nice rigid frame, is easy to attach brackets to, can be cut with simple hand tools, and some brands look pretty good. A lot of small to mid-sized custom industrial equipment is in boxes built with these frames - often with rectangular tubing forming the edges of a box and glass or PVC sheets forming the face of the box. Using stained glass in place of the window glass or PVC seems a natural fit.

The problem would be that this stuff is priced for industrial users. To get an idea of what is available and what it costs look up structural framing at McMaster Carr. McMaster Carr is a full-priced industrial supply company, so nothing there is cheap, but this type of stuff is hard to get cheap. If you can find somebody who is buying this stuff in bulk they might be willing to sell you some of their scrap pieces. The type of company that might have this stuff would be automation houses or custom machine builders.

A few of the many suppliers out there are:

• 80/20 The Industrial Erector Set
• Bosch Structural Framing System
• Unistrut
• Parker IPS
• Compact-Technik Automat

Fred

This company claims to make the "Industrial Erector Set". Life sized, industrial-strength modular pieces...

[8020.net] http://www.8020.net