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Adbusters is absolutely brilliant. I just love the idea of using the media to undermine the media. And even better, they're actually good at it: they are wonderful propagandists. Adbusters is actually the only paper magazine I have a subscription to.

Think about how much the EU governments seem to care about citizen privacy when compared to the US government.

You mean those EU goverments that impose directives limiting the collection of personal data? (See the Directorate General XV, for Media, Information Society and Data Protection page on the EU's Web site.)

Look, France, Germany, and other European governments are giving up some sovereignty to be a part of the EU.

And some in Europe are, I have the impression, not certain that this is all A Good Idea; they may or may not be correct in that belief, but I think at least some of them think that the fiscal policies needed to meet the Maastricht criteria may have increased unemployment.

ohhh, while watching CNN, I just saw an advertisement for you're little 'protest' "lets go to Seattle and put that on the WTO agenda www.adbusters.org

The notion of "a slick television advertisement" from Adbusters seems a bit odd, given that they spend a fair bit of energy arguing against "slick television advertisements" (and other advertisements, hence the name). The WTO Uncommercial page on their site ask for donations to help fund those advertisements - in modern societies, it may be that you have to advertise on TV to make your viewpoint widely known.

I may not agree with all of what Adbusters says, but I, at least, think it's a Good Thing that there're more ads on TV than just ads trying to seduce you into buying product XXX....

Think about how much the EU governments seem to care about citizen privacy when compared to the US government.

You mean those EU goverments that impose directives limiting the collection of personal data? (See the Directorate General XV, for Media, Information Society and Data Protection page on the EU's Web site.)

Look, France, Germany, and other European governments are giving up some sovereignty to be a part of the EU.

And some in Europe are, I have the impression, not certain that this is all A Good Idea; they may or may not be correct in that belief, but I think at least some of them think that the fiscal policies needed to meet the Maastricht criteria may have increased unemployment.

ohhh, while watching CNN, I just saw an advertisement for you're little 'protest' "lets go to Seattle and put that on the WTO agenda www.adbusters.org

The notion of "a slick television advertisement" from Adbusters seems a bit odd, given that they spend a fair bit of energy arguing against "slick television advertisements" (and other advertisements, hence the name). The WTO Uncommercial page on their site ask for donations to help fund those advertisements - in modern societies, it may be that you have to advertise on TV to make your viewpoint widely known.

I may not agree with all of what Adbusters says, but I, at least, think it's a Good Thing that there're more ads on TV than just ads trying to seduce you into buying product XXX....

First of all, sovereignty sucks. Really, I don't see what's so great about it. I mean; do you really feel like the US government acts in your interests? I don't see why a world government would be any worse. Think about how much the EU governments seem to care about citizen privacy when compared to the US government.

Look, France, Germany, and other European governments are giving up some sovereignty to be a part of the EU. I care about my rights, and as long as there preserved, why should I care whose running the show? (couldn't do a worse job then the idiots we've got now, could they?)

Also, while there were a lot of people, there were over 250,000 at Marten Luther King's March on Washington, and over 400,000 at the 'million man march' much more then 50,000. In any event, how can you possibly say that this single event, witch did turn violent is possibly larger then the entire civil rights movement, with its many, larger, and lessviolent protests?

ohhh, while watching CNN, I just saw an advertisement for you're little 'protest' "lets go to Seattle and put that on the WTO agenda"www.adbusters.org You can tell a real grassroots movement by there slick television advertisements.

As for people jumping down my throat, go ahead, I don't usually to ranting. I wouldn't mind hearing some of the real issues (witch you have not done).

Say what you will about the government, but at least in theory it exists to serve the common good. Corporations don't even pay lip service to that ideal -- they just want to maximize their bottom line for themselves and for their shareholders. Nowhere does it say that they have to do the rest of the world a shred of good, and if they absolutely don't have to, they won't. Take a look at the campaign to revoke Phillip Morris' corporate charter, and while you're at it, poke around the rest of the Adbusters site.

I'm also sympathetic with the laissez faire Libertarians who point out that government can't step in and tell the corporations what to do or who to serve. That is rightly their own business to manage. But at the same time, a government that allows one group to exploit the rest of the population is bankrupt and needs an overhaul. Revolution lies down that path.

What is a good middle ground? I don't know -- no one has come up with it yet. Socialism atrophied and went nowhere; capitalism has become a festering tumor that is strangling the people and the planet. There has to be some happy medium. Any suggestions? Maybe some of these protesters (who came from all the world, fon't forget -- it isn't just Seattle's ex-hippie population) could come up with something. We're overdue for a nice purging riot -- maybe some good will come of it. I sure hope so -- the current system, booming economy here in the US notwithstanding, is headed down the wrong path fast...

Say what you will about the government, but at least in theory it exists to serve the common good. Corporations don't even pay lip service to that ideal -- they just want to maximize their bottom line for themselves and for their shareholders. Nowhere does it say that they have to do the rest of the world a shred of good, and if they absolutely don't have to, they won't. Take a look at the campaign to revoke Phillip Morris' corporate charter, and while you're at it, poke around the rest of the Adbusters site.

I'm also sympathetic with the laissez faire Libertarians who point out that government can't step in and tell the corporations what to do or who to serve. That is rightly their own business to manage. But at the same time, a government that allows one group to exploit the rest of the population is bankrupt and needs an overhaul. Revolution lies down that path.

What is a good middle ground? I don't know -- no one has come up with it yet. Socialism atrophied and went nowhere; capitalism has become a festering tumor that is strangling the people and the planet. There has to be some happy medium. Any suggestions? Maybe some of these protesters (who came from all the world, fon't forget -- it isn't just Seattle's ex-hippie population) could come up with something. We're overdue for a nice purging riot -- maybe some good will come of it. I sure hope so -- the current system, booming economy here in the US notwithstanding, is headed down the wrong path fast...

Check out this link FMI.

If permission to run a buisiness is granted by a state, then it can also be taken away, so it is entirely possible for states to enforce an ADA. I believe you said somewhere that you would have no problem with a state ADA law either.

Now, I didn't realize until this thread that the ADA is enforced by the feds, and that is odd, to say the least. But I'm not all that concerned with the state vs. federal power struggle. It seems that the states' rights issue is *very* important to you. That's cool, but I think that you're looking for a debate that isn't there. I never claimed that the federal govenment has rights not granted in the constitution, nor do I want to.

I do like the general concept of the ADA and would vote for something simmilar if it were raised as a state referendum.

Anyway, if you want to see an interseting article on states revoking corporate charters check out:

http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/charter/death.h tml

You'll probably hate it :)

I think we should all go over to The Media Foundation, a group that has been tr/ying to fight corporations for a few years and whose magazine, adbusters, won this year's magazine of the year for 1999 from the Canadian National Magazine Awards. The magazine is more interesting then the website, but their campaigns are very interesting to those of us who hate being in the rich people's casino.

And we call ourselves civilized.

As for your environmental comments, see Adbusters.

Also see Adbusters: Culture Jammers; I don't always care for their view of Economics and Money as Evil, and I do believe advertising can be art; but they have a very nice response to the incessant klaxon blare of Don't Worry, Be Happy (and insecure) that mainstream media seems to want to shove down our throats.

"Go back to bed, America! Here, watch American Gladiators. Here's 57 channels of American Gladiators. Watch these drooling, pituitary retards thrash each other's skulls open. Go back to bed, America! You are free! Free, to do as we tell you!"

Scarry thing !

Did you remember an old AdBusters campaign on the TV ?
A man watching TV with a barcode tatoo on his head.
The message were : "YOU are the product"
If you are curious, go to AdBusters to see some of their ads.

Oh, give me a break. In case you haven't noticed, we are six months away from the twenty-first century, and the earth ain't getting any bigger. Pardon me for being facetious, but I don't think even God forsaw a world population of _six_billion_ people (within a few decades from now). I can assure you the apostles and the writers of the Bible didn't.

Have you ever been outside of the United States and the industrialized "first world"? Spend some time in East Africa and tell the locals that food shortages are a lie. Go to India and tell them overpopulation is "120% false". These aren't lies, they are _truths_ perpetuated by those who love and worship money, and those who are too complacent to realize their own complicity. (Yes, that includes myself and almost every other American.)

Here's some "sophist" propaganda you might find interesting. I invite you to participate.

Check out Adbusters for more information on the infiltration of advertising into our daily lives...

...I think I'll stick with my 3 year old Mac (actually Power Computing)
hardware and get that new NetBSD release to play around with.

I'm sure the world really needs *MORE* advertising.:P

I'm still pissed over the way networks destroy the end of the programs
they run with ads. I *like* watching movie/show credits and seeing the final gag.

And don't get me started on ads above Urinals!!

Time to go renew that subscription to AdBusters.
Pope

I think this is what you meant to put in for the Adbusters link.

Otherwise, couldn't agree more. There ARE good magazines out there, you just have to know where to look.

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"Plus, tag-team robot wrestling! It's the mighty robots of

Mr. Brooks has some good comments about Dvorak vs. QWERTY, including comments on why the Liebowitz and Margolis article isn't exactly proof that dvorak isn't better. He goes over each of the major points of their article.

Regarding the Economist's editorial, I can't say I agree with their analysis: They don't take into consideration ergonomics, the cost if dvorak or qwerty is learned from the start, and the fact that there are no unbiased studies showing one is better than the other. (The GSA study was biased, Mr. Strong had an investment in QWERTY, having put lots of effort into improving/using it).

It is easily shown that that the dvorak keyboard moves the more commonly used keys under the stronger fingers, important to prevent RSI. In addition, the alteration of keys is much better than the QWERTY keyboard, important for speed. (The QWERTY keyboard has this property too, but they keys are on the weakest fingers. This is the accidental benifit mentioned by the economist, tho it possibly risks injury.)

Even Sholes thought that the original keyboard needed improvement, having taken out a patent on this keyboard:
X P M C H R T N S D G K
J B W F L A E I O U Y
Q V (punctuation goes here)
Notice that the vowels are under one hand and that most common words would alternate well.

Regarding Dvorak being baised; I think not. The book, Typewriting Behavior: Psychology Applied to Teaching and Learning Typewriting , is authored by four people (Dvorak being only one) and consists of information pertinent to all aspects of typing. In fact, the Dvorak keyboard is only called the simplified keyboard at this point. The book cites several hundred case studies. This book is the result of the $130,000 dollars from the Carnegie Commission for Education.

This is the quintessential book for understanding how humans use keyboards. There isn't anything like it since (tho some have built upon it).

Finally, I have to state my opinion on Economists in general; Most don't know simple math. A good explination of what I mean can be seen on AdBusters' Economists Must Learn to Subtract . This wouldn't be the first time an economist was unable to see past the obvious dollars. Why should they worry about the pain a person will have, later in life? Especially if they can fire that person first?

Economics is currently where physics was in ancient greece. We know a few concepts, one or two working formula, but we're missing huge chunks. Human health, long term viability and quality of living are all left out.

Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. I'm sure I'll get at least one colorful response. Oh, BTW, CmdrTaco, what irks you about the QWERTY origin story/mythos? That dvorak is touted as better for speed? That dvorak is possibly better for your hands? Or that it acts as a possible exception or counter-proof for current economic theory?

Personally, I'm only interested in ease of use and my precious wrists. And since dvorak makes my wrists feel better (even now that I'm back to my QWERTY speed) and switching most systems to dvorak is trivial....

Ciao!

Mr. Brooks has some good comments about Dvorak vs. QWERTY, including comments on why the Liebowitz and Margolis article isn't exactly proof that dvorak isn't better. He goes over each of the major points of their article.

Regarding the Economist's editorial, I can't say I agree with their analysis: They don't take into consideration ergonomics, the cost if dvorak or qwerty is learned from the start, and the fact that there are no unbiased studies showing one is better than the other. (The GSA study was biased, Mr. Strong had an investment in QWERTY, having put lots of effort into improving/using it).

It is easily shown that that the dvorak keyboard moves the more commonly used keys under the stronger fingers, important to prevent RSI. In addition, the alteration of keys is much better than the QWERTY keyboard, important for speed. (The QWERTY keyboard has this property too, but they keys are on the weakest fingers. This is the accidental benifit mentioned by the economist, tho it possibly risks injury.)

Even Sholes thought that the original keyboard needed improvement, having taken out a patent on this keyboard:
X P M C H R T N S D G K
J B W F L A E I O U Y
Q V (punctuation goes here)
Notice that the vowels are under one hand and that most common words would alternate well.

Regarding Dvorak being baised; I think not. The book, Typewriting Behavior: Psychology Applied to Teaching and Learning Typewriting , is authored by four people (Dvorak being only one) and consists of information pertinent to all aspects of typing. In fact, the Dvorak keyboard is only called the simplified keyboard at this point. The book cites several hundred case studies. This book is the result of the $130,000 dollars from the Carnegie Commission for Education.

This is the quintessential book for understanding how humans use keyboards. There isn't anything like it since (tho some have built upon it).

Finally, I have to state my opinion on Economists in general; Most don't know simple math. A good explination of what I mean can be seen on AdBusters' Economists Must Learn to Subtract . This wouldn't be the first time an economist was unable to see past the obvious dollars. Why should they worry about the pain a person will have, later in life? Especially if they can fire that person first?

Economics is currently where physics was in ancient greece. We know a few concepts, one or two working formula, but we're missing huge chunks. Human health, long term viability and quality of living are all left out.

Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. I'm sure I'll get at least one colorful response. Oh, BTW, CmdrTaco, what irks you about the QWERTY origin story/mythos? That dvorak is touted as better for speed? That dvorak is possibly better for your hands? Or that it acts as a possible exception or counter-proof for current economic theory?

Personally, I'm only interested in ease of use and my precious wrists. And since dvorak makes my wrists feel better (even now that I'm back to my QWERTY speed) and switching most systems to dvorak is trivial....

Ciao!