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So you think 5 "value packs" are confusing and you want to push a model with thousands of combinatios of options? You could not just give a flat rate for 5, 10, 15, 20 a la carte channels becasue some channels cost more. At best each channels would have a different price tier based on how many total channels you have (>5, >10, >15 etc.) like this (in $'s), not counting home shopping etc.

Who ever said that the credit had to be the same as the price as a regular channel?

Imagine if the shopping channels credited one tenth of the price as the average channel debited. With a minimum number of regular channels of even five, you'd need FIFTY shopping channels to make the net price zero. I don't even think there are fifty infomercial/shopping channels, but it doesn't matter because the providers will know and can EASILY design a system that can account for this specific case with those two simple variables..

Regardless I think it's funny how people criticize the a la carte system for being confusing or complicated, when the current cable company pricing systems are already a mess. I currently get my service from Adelphia and it's almost impossible to get even a friggin price point for the individual options out of them. Everything is all bound up in "Advantage Paks" (a double-speak term if I've ever heard one) that lack any rhyme, reason, or advertised pricing. I mean look at their FAQ. It's hilariously defensive, with questions like "Is the "New Vision of Cable" just another way to increase your rates?" or "What 'value' am I getting from these new packages? It looks like I'm going to be paying more, so please explain the "savings" that I'll be receiving." The answers to these of course explain how, by paying more, you're actually saving money, which is double-plus-good to know and certainly puts this consumer's mind at ease.

How could a la carte pricing be any more complicated or confusing than that?

-Grym

Who ever said that the credit had to be the same as the price as a regular channel?

Imagine if the shopping channels credited one tenth of the price as the average channel debited. With a minimum number of regular channels of even five, you'd need FIFTY shopping channels to make the net price zero. I don't even think there are fifty infomercial/shopping channels, but it doesn't matter because the providers will know and can EASILY design a system that can account for this specific case with those two simple variables..

Regardless I think it's funny how people criticize the a la carte system for being confusing or complicated, when the current cable company pricing systems are already a mess. I currently get my service from Adelphia and it's almost impossible to get even a friggin price point for the individual options out of them. Everything is all bound up in "Advantage Paks" (a double-speak term if I've ever heard one) that lack any rhyme, reason, or advertised pricing. I mean look at their FAQ. It's hilariously defensive, with questions like "Is the "New Vision of Cable" just another way to increase your rates?" or "What 'value' am I getting from these new packages? It looks like I'm going to be paying more, so please explain the "savings" that I'll be receiving." The answers to these of course explain how, by paying more, you're actually saving money, which is double-plus-good to know and certainly puts this consumer's mind at ease.

How could a la carte pricing be any more complicated or confusing than that?

-Grym

Adelphia Cable has it, although it's limited to what they're currently showing that month (you can't just watch anything you want).

http://adelphia.com/cable_entertainment/inDemand_p pv.cfm

Indeed, your comment about having to "change hte port for the webserver" allows us to modify it to a bigger extreme: "Speeding isn't a traffic violation, my car can reach ninety miles an hour! In fact, I did that the other day without repurcusions, except I had to slow down when my radar detector noticed a cop close by."

I can't speak for Cox, but most cable ISPs and ILEC ISPs I've seen the terms and conditions for have banned users from running servers. Adelphia's, for example, is extremely explicit:

Are there any unacceptable uses for which Adelphia High-Speed Internet may not be used?

Adelphia High-Speed Internet may not be used with a server of any kind. Our service may not be used for illegal purposes such as the distribution of material that is protected under copyright law. Click here to view Adelphia High-Speed Internet's Acceptable Use Policy and Terms of Service. These conditions are in effect to protect our customers and insure that all customers have an enjoyable experience with their High-Speed Internet service.

2. Generally Prohibited Conduct.

You agree not to use, or allow Users to use, the Adelphia Broadband Service, the Adelphia Network, the Equipment or the Software:

(g) to run a server of any type in connection with the Adelphia Broadband Service, or to provide network or host services to others via the Adelphia Network. Prohibited uses include, without limitation, running servers for PPP, FTP, HTTP, DNS, POP, SMTP, NNTP, Proxy (any variety), DHCP, IRC, TELNET, TFTP, SNMP and multi-user interactive forums, and remapping of ports for the purpose of operating a server on the Adelphia Network;

Now you can pretend the terms and conditions don't exist and ignore them and hope the ISP doesn't care, but the fact is most of us would rather not risk losing our internet connection at a moment's notice, especially if they're the only game in town.

As for municipalities running a network? I highly doubt they would allow any ports to be open outside of those they specifically allow. They will probably only allow incoming HTTP/FTP/E-Mail traffic and will probably block AIM at some point too.

Also, local ISPs wouldn't care, as to get proper access, you'd need to go to them.

Indeed, your comment about having to "change hte port for the webserver" allows us to modify it to a bigger extreme: "Speeding isn't a traffic violation, my car can reach ninety miles an hour! In fact, I did that the other day without repurcusions, except I had to slow down when my radar detector noticed a cop close by."

I can't speak for Cox, but most cable ISPs and ILEC ISPs I've seen the terms and conditions for have banned users from running servers. Adelphia's, for example, is extremely explicit:

Are there any unacceptable uses for which Adelphia High-Speed Internet may not be used?

Adelphia High-Speed Internet may not be used with a server of any kind. Our service may not be used for illegal purposes such as the distribution of material that is protected under copyright law. Click here to view Adelphia High-Speed Internet's Acceptable Use Policy and Terms of Service. These conditions are in effect to protect our customers and insure that all customers have an enjoyable experience with their High-Speed Internet service.

2. Generally Prohibited Conduct.

You agree not to use, or allow Users to use, the Adelphia Broadband Service, the Adelphia Network, the Equipment or the Software:

(g) to run a server of any type in connection with the Adelphia Broadband Service, or to provide network or host services to others via the Adelphia Network. Prohibited uses include, without limitation, running servers for PPP, FTP, HTTP, DNS, POP, SMTP, NNTP, Proxy (any variety), DHCP, IRC, TELNET, TFTP, SNMP and multi-user interactive forums, and remapping of ports for the purpose of operating a server on the Adelphia Network;

Now you can pretend the terms and conditions don't exist and ignore them and hope the ISP doesn't care, but the fact is most of us would rather not risk losing our internet connection at a moment's notice, especially if they're the only game in town.

As for municipalities running a network? I highly doubt they would allow any ports to be open outside of those they specifically allow. They will probably only allow incoming HTTP/FTP/E-Mail traffic and will probably block AIM at some point too.

Also, local ISPs wouldn't care, as to get proper access, you'd need to go to them.

1) Apparently if you're not a "PowerLink" customer you're not permitted to browse information about PL products and services.

2) What kind of firewall are we talking about? Is it a self-contained router like a Linksys or Netgear? Built into the cable modem? Or is it some piece of software that's installed on Windows which the user can turn off at will? According to http://www.adelphia.com/high_speed_internet/faqs.c fm#hardwaresoftware, they only provide a cable modem and won't provide any additional hardware if you intend to install it yourself.

I would love to see some evidence that major consumer ISPs are doing something to provide additional security to their subscribers. (See my prior comments about this at http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=118246&cid=999 3061.) I know from experience that Comcast's approach is to connect your PC to the cable modem, toss a CD at you, and walk out the door.

Even more problematic are these comments in that same thread from Slashdotter michael_cain:
"When I worked for a large cable company, those of us in the technology organization wanted to make it policy to recommend to subscribers that they have a firewall. The legal department [argued] that we exposed ourselves to liability lawsuits if we said, in effect, that the Internet was a dangerous place and you should take steps to protect yourselves. So the company did not give users warnings, and the network became one of the world's larger sources of various attacks..."

Apparently from your comments Adelphia doesn't believe that telling its subscribers that the Internet is a dangerous place will open up a possible source of liability. If true, that's a breath of fresh air.

Decent city, heh... Where I am, Adelphia's basic alone cable is $25/mo (that's analog basic, not digital basic). No idea what HDTV costs but I'm willing to bet it's more than $7/mo...

I've got Adelphia in South Florida. I called them this weekend and HDTV is *finally* available in my specific area. It's only $8/mo extra (for I think three channels so far: ABC, NBC, CBS) so I'm going to order it next week.
Adelphia HDTV details

"Traffic Consumption Allowances: Adelphia has the right to
monitor, measure and report bandwidth consumption by You. Adelphia
reserves the right to establish, modify and/or enforce consumption
allowances at any time now or in the future, with or without notice, and
apply a surcharge for excess usage."

"Traffic Consumption Allowances: Adelphia has the right to
monitor, measure and report bandwidth consumption by You. Adelphia
reserves the right to establish, modify and/or enforce consumption
allowances at any time now or in the future, with or without notice, and
apply a surcharge for excess usage."

It's overpriced and has at times been extremely unreliable.

Can I network more than one computer?
Yes.

This isn't limited to ISPs. I found this on my friend's machine (he has cable, I don't yet). I called up our provider, Adelphia, and inquired as to whether it's part of their required installation package. The rep told me it wasn't. And then he asked if I (or my friend in this case) had Morpheus or KaZaA installed. Wouldn't you know it, he has both on his machine (though he has KaZaA Lite, which is supposedly Spyware free).

This is shockingly similar to those "Bonus Club Cards" you get at supermarkets. You think you're getting a great deal on your load of groceries, but what they're really doing is tracking your shopping habbits so they can target market more effectively. Sneaky, isn't it. They tell you about the "great deals," but not about the fact that they've assigned you a number and are keeping track of every single purchase you make at their store. Would you sign up if you knew it was a real world Spyware tactic?

Programs like this aren't necessary for Cable Modem installation. All you really need to do is plug the thing in, call the ISP, and have them set your modem up on their server. Bang. Signal, and you can happily go about downloading pirated music and software. People need to get in the habbit of sitting there with the installation technician and ask him what each and every step does instead of being ignorant to everything. Yes, the tech (at least should) know what he/she is doing, but so should you. They say the best kind of learning is "hands-on," after all.

If more people would pick up on that, then we geeks wouldn't be bothered by the "normals" calling us begging for help because they did something stupid...

I assume you're saying the you run your own DNS and mail for your home network and don't run them for the outside world, right?

Indeed. So far as I can tell, the entire network infrastructure for my soon-to-be-out-of-business cable provider is run by untrained chimps; I've actually set up a few NetBSD-based DNS-and-mail server combos for friends who are sick of all their name lookups timing out and their mail getting lost.

--saint

Don't need to force my provider, they're going to be selling it off in bits and pieces soon enough.

If you already have broadband, then $20 or $40 per month doesn't sound too bad for phone service. But I don't already have it. So let's see, what would this really cost me?

From here:

Power Link service plans* start as low as $34.50/month for customers who own a DOCSIS compliant, Adelphia approved cable modem. For customers who prefer to have Adelphia provide the modem, service plans start as low as $42.95/month. All service plans include up to 4 email accounts and 10 Mb of personal web space.

Hmm, that's not too bad. But then add the $25 setup fee and the $20/month minimum for the phone, and I'm up to $62.95/month. Amortize the installation over the first year and make it $65. Suddenly sounding not-so-good. Oh, and can I even use it? From here:

(a) You agree not to use the Service or any equipment or software provided by Adelphia:

...
(iv) so as to improperly interfere with, inhibit, degrade or restrict the use and enjoyment of the Service by others or Adelphias ability to deliver the Service to users and to monitor the Service, backbone, network nodes and/or other aspects of network servicing, including, without limitation, by:
(A) excessive use of bandwidth (e.g. exceeding 2.5GB of traffic in a given month);
(B) sending excessive data transfers;
...
(H) failing to comply with any bandwidth, data storage or other use limitations imposed on your use of the Service

(v) to run a server of any type in connection with the Service, nor may you provide network or host services to others via the Service. Prohibited uses include, without limitation, running servers for PPP, FTP, HTTP, DNS, POP, SMTP, NNTP, PROXY, DHCP, IRC, TELNET, TFTP, SNMP and multi-user interactive forums, or remapping of ports for the purpose of operating a server on the network.

So when they say No getting booted off and You get flat-rate unlimited Internet access they don't really mean it. This service would be totally unusable for a phone.

If you already have broadband, then $20 or $40 per month doesn't sound too bad for phone service. But I don't already have it. So let's see, what would this really cost me?

From here:

Power Link service plans* start as low as $34.50/month for customers who own a DOCSIS compliant, Adelphia approved cable modem. For customers who prefer to have Adelphia provide the modem, service plans start as low as $42.95/month. All service plans include up to 4 email accounts and 10 Mb of personal web space.

Hmm, that's not too bad. But then add the $25 setup fee and the $20/month minimum for the phone, and I'm up to $62.95/month. Amortize the installation over the first year and make it $65. Suddenly sounding not-so-good. Oh, and can I even use it? From here:

(a) You agree not to use the Service or any equipment or software provided by Adelphia:

...
(iv) so as to improperly interfere with, inhibit, degrade or restrict the use and enjoyment of the Service by others or Adelphias ability to deliver the Service to users and to monitor the Service, backbone, network nodes and/or other aspects of network servicing, including, without limitation, by:
(A) excessive use of bandwidth (e.g. exceeding 2.5GB of traffic in a given month);
(B) sending excessive data transfers;
...
(H) failing to comply with any bandwidth, data storage or other use limitations imposed on your use of the Service

(v) to run a server of any type in connection with the Service, nor may you provide network or host services to others via the Service. Prohibited uses include, without limitation, running servers for PPP, FTP, HTTP, DNS, POP, SMTP, NNTP, PROXY, DHCP, IRC, TELNET, TFTP, SNMP and multi-user interactive forums, or remapping of ports for the purpose of operating a server on the network.

So when they say No getting booted off and You get flat-rate unlimited Internet access they don't really mean it. This service would be totally unusable for a phone.

If you already have broadband, then $20 or $40 per month doesn't sound too bad for phone service. But I don't already have it. So let's see, what would this really cost me?

From here:

Power Link service plans* start as low as $34.50/month for customers who own a DOCSIS compliant, Adelphia approved cable modem. For customers who prefer to have Adelphia provide the modem, service plans start as low as $42.95/month. All service plans include up to 4 email accounts and 10 Mb of personal web space.

Hmm, that's not too bad. But then add the $25 setup fee and the $20/month minimum for the phone, and I'm up to $62.95/month. Amortize the installation over the first year and make it $65. Suddenly sounding not-so-good. Oh, and can I even use it? From here:

(a) You agree not to use the Service or any equipment or software provided by Adelphia:

...
(iv) so as to improperly interfere with, inhibit, degrade or restrict the use and enjoyment of the Service by others or Adelphias ability to deliver the Service to users and to monitor the Service, backbone, network nodes and/or other aspects of network servicing, including, without limitation, by:
(A) excessive use of bandwidth (e.g. exceeding 2.5GB of traffic in a given month);
(B) sending excessive data transfers;
...
(H) failing to comply with any bandwidth, data storage or other use limitations imposed on your use of the Service

(v) to run a server of any type in connection with the Service, nor may you provide network or host services to others via the Service. Prohibited uses include, without limitation, running servers for PPP, FTP, HTTP, DNS, POP, SMTP, NNTP, PROXY, DHCP, IRC, TELNET, TFTP, SNMP and multi-user interactive forums, or remapping of ports for the purpose of operating a server on the network.

So when they say No getting booted off and You get flat-rate unlimited Internet access they don't really mean it. This service would be totally unusable for a phone.

If you already have broadband, then $20 or $40 per month doesn't sound too bad for phone service. But I don't already have it. So let's see, what would this really cost me?

From here:

Power Link service plans* start as low as $34.50/month for customers who own a DOCSIS compliant, Adelphia approved cable modem. For customers who prefer to have Adelphia provide the modem, service plans start as low as $42.95/month. All service plans include up to 4 email accounts and 10 Mb of personal web space.

Hmm, that's not too bad. But then add the $25 setup fee and the $20/month minimum for the phone, and I'm up to $62.95/month. Amortize the installation over the first year and make it $65. Suddenly sounding not-so-good. Oh, and can I even use it? From here:

(a) You agree not to use the Service or any equipment or software provided by Adelphia:

...
(iv) so as to improperly interfere with, inhibit, degrade or restrict the use and enjoyment of the Service by others or Adelphias ability to deliver the Service to users and to monitor the Service, backbone, network nodes and/or other aspects of network servicing, including, without limitation, by:
(A) excessive use of bandwidth (e.g. exceeding 2.5GB of traffic in a given month);
(B) sending excessive data transfers;
...
(H) failing to comply with any bandwidth, data storage or other use limitations imposed on your use of the Service

(v) to run a server of any type in connection with the Service, nor may you provide network or host services to others via the Service. Prohibited uses include, without limitation, running servers for PPP, FTP, HTTP, DNS, POP, SMTP, NNTP, PROXY, DHCP, IRC, TELNET, TFTP, SNMP and multi-user interactive forums, or remapping of ports for the purpose of operating a server on the network.

So when they say No getting booted off and You get flat-rate unlimited Internet access they don't really mean it. This service would be totally unusable for a phone.

You won't have to worry about it if you're an Adelphia customer... if they find you using KaZaa, they'll cut you off anyway and you won't have to worry about pop-up ads.