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So did Slashdot. Yesterday.

Frankly, If we want to see the earth from space 'cuz it looks k00l, we should do it ourselves

Amateur Satellite geeks rule. And can do it a hell of a lot cheaper than Triana.

Amen.

If we want to see the earth from space 'cuz it looks k00l, we should do it ourselves.

Amateur Satellite geeks rule.

I met a lot of old times (who were inactive for a long time like you ...) recently on the air on the modes like PSK31 (which looks like a reliable modern version of RTTY ...), they were all really enthusiastic about the new developments ... Perhaps people got a bit fedup with the "code/no-code" debates :-) (I am a CW guy myself ...)

Perhaps it is time for you to check back :-) Welcome back !!

Pointless experimentation? You admit it is an experiment. Voice-over-IP isn't something everyone uses often, and here is a non-profit low-cost effort to build a global network of linked repeaters using VoIP. Sounds interesting to me.

Yes using it isn't may not be exciting to use if you are using to using HF communications directly, but not everyone has HF privileges. It sounds quite interesting to build. It would be one of the easiest ways that an amateur with only VHF privileges can communicate world-wide, using a low-power handheld 2m or 70cm radio. Sounds like a neat experiment, and something that a new ham might find inspiring to work towards HF qualifications because of.

Using an Internet link does not always mean using a "phone line". If you checked out the site, you'd see part of their link in BC uses wireless ethernet. You could build a node that uses HF packet carring TCP/IP and VoIP. Nothing is to prevent that, and it would be compatible with other wired repeaters.

A lot of your message sounds like what was said about repeaters back in the 70s or any new digital mode from RTTY to PSK31, AMSAT, and likely about SSB[1] versus AM.

1. single sideband, suppressed carrier, uses less bandwidth than AM

As to the comment that all these picosats generate huge amounts of space junk and that they all should have 'auto-deorbit' capability: Note that the article said Low earth orbit. Their orbits will naturally decay, leading to burnup in the atmosphere. Perhaps there should be a limit on exactly what you can launch - I wouldn't want some nut to launch a kilo of anthrax, plutonium, or Spam.

Amsat - the amateur sattelite corp. - kind of an open-source sattelite corp. run by radio hams - check out www.amsat.org

To find out more, go to http://www.amsat.org.

AMSAT will be the responsible party, but I doubt it will do such a thing. Just because it's a satellite carrying "amateur" radio, doesn't mean that a bunch of hicks got out in the backyard and set off a rocket. This project has been going on for 10 years now. To put a satellite up requires a lot of time and effort. This satellite isn't some un-claimed space junk flying around, it will be tracked just like all the other satellites.

Check out amsat.org for more info and pictures!

KD5MAH

The ARRL has more info on licensing for /.'s in the US. AMSAT has more info on ALL the ham satellites.

With the partial exception of the Russian RS-13, you don't need to know Morse Code to get a license to use any of them. And remember, reception is still free.

Bruce

Look at the way-cool picture of the launch preparations here., or get more information about Phase 3D at here.

there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count

Bruce

1) The sticks on the picture look like VHF omnidirectional antennae. Also, you only need large antennae when the satellite is far away, like geostationary orbit. On the Low Earth Orbit (~800km), all that is needed is a very small transmitter, comparable to a mobile phone in terms of power; well, at least for low bandwidth connections. There are quite a few tiny satellites like that in orbit right now. They are being used radio hams , scientific experiments, etc...

Another part of the answer is that dishes can only reasonably be used at microwave frequencies (above 1GHz), otherwise they would be too large

2) With omnidirectional antennae, there is no need for attitude control, see above.

I'm still planning on using Phase 3D when it get launched. LEO, not there all the time, but still pretty good. Bounce them packets baby. Interested? Check out AMSAT.org

It's an interesting idea, and certainly feasible from a technology standpoint.

However, the cost of getting the repeater there is extremely high. It's cost AMSAT a huge amount of money just to get Phase 3D into orbit, and it's not even up yet. Vibration testing, platforms costs, etc, etc, etc. So while I'm sure funding could be arrived at, I think it would actually be more difficult to raise the funds because of the perceived usefulness (Phase 3D promises usage with 5 watt handheld radios, versus steerable high gain antennas).

I wonder if using the Mars Lander airbag technique might not be a better method for safely delivering the payload to the lunar surface. While you certainly can't parachute it down, I wonder if something like a braking rocket with the payload suspended from it might work. Once some distance above the surface, the payload would be cut loose, the airbags inflated, and the device garanteed to arrive in a safe and upright condition (many people say that the Mars Lander landed softer than UPS handles most packages!)

-- Chris, K4JCW

I just hope that it is not made into another Iridium-like network. The reason the current satellites are not too busy right now is the need for an amateur radio license and the skills needed involved to track a low-orbit satellite. If TCP/IP is used for this purpose in the future, don't expect to have it on your cell phone or anything.

Visit Amsat if you want more information about the current state of amateur radio in the sky.

i am actually suprised this wasn't done earlier with amateur satellites, as it is (aside from the issues involving communication with orbiting communications systems) just a wireless network connect. if the satellite was in polar orbit you'd have availability problems, but a sat in the clarke belt would be nifty.

anyone know of plans in the amateur community to do this?

oh, and check out AmSat for info on amateur satellites and whatnot.

__________

__________

It's a pity they didn't consider turning the control and maintenance of these satellites over to AMSAT, since they're going to junk them anyway. They have the knowledge, expertice and infrastructure to deal with satellites.

...could have been real handy having those up there for emergency radio communications purposes.

Oh well, guess you can't win 'em all.

There are many proven techniques fot parachutes. On the ultralight I flew (many many moons ago) the prop was wood (birch, I believe) and the parachute had a metal chain that would foul the prop and snap it off. Obviously, you couldn't take off again with replacing the propeller, which was a wee bit harder to come by than 5 gallons of 93 octane

There are parachutes that deploy 'explosively' much like an airbag, and where the guy lines lead to a single pivot chain (like the one you use on a spinner lure when fishing). It's not much like sjy diving - there's no control over where you land.

I've seen parachutes that were post-mounted (above/away from the airframe) and and center mounted (above the rotor shaft) but I don't know how common each o these designs were, nor have I observed a deployment
I'm way out of date on this. I went to a skydiving airport a couple of years ago, and I was stunned to see everyone using what we would have called 'flying wings' 15-20 years ago. (back then, we all used round silk chutes, and debated if PIADs (Parachute Inflation Assist Devices - semi-stiff plastic flaps that scooped air into your depolying canopy to help it inflate) really worked. The US military wasn't much better off (though they were using PIADs in 1980)

Dang... 20 years ago... I'm only 37 ... perils of doing too much, too early, I guess



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Trust me...

Anyone past the third year of medical school looks forward to this a lot less than even you do!

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The port was relatively painfree...

note "relatively"

but the simultaneous crash/noncrash superpositions of states. And the blue flash of Cerenkov radiation... Omigawd! it's running a Win OS!

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When the public sees an iMac-esque computer, what do they think of? Apple's iMacs, that's what. It's not that I feel Apple should be able to control who uses what cases, I just think that companies like eMachines that are blatently stealing Apple's designs... well, I think they're theives. Am I wrong?

I knew a girl in Metz, France about ten years ago. Whenever I (or any of the Americans I knew) saw her, we thought of Kim Basinger. Thief!

Of course we knew she wasn't Kim Basinger. And no member of the public could get past the first boot-up or amy demo screen without seeing the Win95 logo and Start Button.

There's a big difference between being "reminiscent of" and being "confusing". Any person who confuses a Win machine with a Mac doesn't have any idea what "mac" even means. E-machines didn't confuse them. They walked in confused on such a fundamantal level that they wouldn' recognize a non-iMac as a legitimate Mac (I've seen it happen with Quadra's and PPCs -- "That's not a Mac!")

Now if you want to argue that E-machines deliberately confuse users about their integrated video (onboard chips charing main memory and system bus, rather than separate video RAM on a separate card with its own on-card RAMDAC bus) I'd be on your side

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what about the fact that this has NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER with linux?

Oh. I'm sorry.

Without my glasses, the banner looks like "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." Not "All Linux, all the time -- and nothing but."

Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

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I'm pleased you replied. You confirm my initial impression that you are a reasonable person

Do I feel that the ACLU behaved in a manner that I would have? Hell no. The KKK can go bugger themselves, and I don't think that there's anything and I don't think that there's anything wrong with plowing a church's parking lot,if that's where 1/2 the town goes the morning that it snows. \

I actually like to think the ACLU *did* behave in the manner I would have, though I am by no means a flaming liberal.

For clarification: I was born in Georgia, and while I am not black, I am of an asian ethnicity that was uncommin in Georgia in the 60's and 70's and don't pass the 'paper bag' test in GA or Boston (where there were race riots when I moved here in 1975.)

I, too, think the KK can go bugger itself (but not necessarily in Georgia ;-> I believe the Supreme court ruled on GA's blanket prohibition on sodomy even within the bounds of marriage) However, I do not see that defending a specific right is the same as defending every act or belief of the defendant. just because I'd prosecute a murder or assault on a KKK member, doesn't mean I support all other opinions he might hold.

However, if 1/2 the town went to the cockfights or brothel on Sunday morning, I wouldn't necessarily agree that they are entitled to full town services (as opposed to prosecution)

I do not agree with their positions on a moral level. But I aboslutely support their right to do this, and I think that the ACLU has single-handledly reshaped the manner in which our country applies our Constitution to every day life.

I treat the ACLU's right to take a stand on the same level as the KKK's right to take a stand. But the right to expression is independent of the view or whether I happen to hold it -- e.g. I'm dead straight heterosexual, but I support treating homosexuals as humans, and respecting their choices that don't impose on others (and they rarely do)

Incidentally, just because they dramatically shaped our interpretation of the constituion doesn't suggest I should support them. There was a flip side to each of those debates, and that side had an equal effect: the ACLU doesn't always win.

But if I don't support a specific view, especially on moral grounds, then whether KKK or ACLU, I don't support it. Period. With no 'halo effect' judgement of whether they are usually 'good guys' or 'bad guys'

I believe that Aristotle pointed out that even the world'd greatest fool isn't always wrong, nor the world's wisest man always right. (Some days I'm not sure which side Aristotle fell on)

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I do believe that the issue is addressed in the MGLA (Massachusetts General Laws Annotated) which would have significant (but not comprehensive) application in this case.

Among the many (scattered) relevant passages are:

Chapter 223: Section 31. Summons; leaving at last known address, etc.

Section 31. In an action brought in the district court, if service is made at the last and usual place of abode, the officer making service shall forthwith mail first class a copy of the summons to such last and usual place of abode. The date of mailing and the address to which the summons was sent shall be set forth as required by section thirty-five in the officer's return.

Chapter 223: Section 34. Further notice to absent defendant.

Section 34. If the defendant is out of the commonwealth, or if his residence is not known to the officer, and no personal service is made on him or on his agent appointed under section five of chapter two hundred and twenty-seven, he shall, in addition to the service herein prescribed, be entitled to further notice of the action as provided in said chapter.


Though, in my experience, arguing improper service doesn't always get too far, since judges tend to feel 'you know you did something wrong" unless your lawyer is very diligent about arguing that this is a far cry from knowing you were actually required to appear in a certain place at a certain tim. [that asssumption makes a judges life much easier - though I'd blame the court clerk for not at least trying to confirm proper service)

BTW, Ch 227 sect 5, cited above. seems to apply only to those doing business in Massachusetts, but even entities doing business in Mass are entitled to more than e-service. To wit:

Chapter 227: Section 5. Agents for service of process; duty to appoint by certain individuals; penalty.

Section 5. Every individual not an inhabitant of the commonwealth and every partnership composed of persons not such inhabitants, having a usual place of business in the commonwealth, temporarily or permanently, or engaged here, temporarily or permanently, and with or without a usual place of business here, in the construction, erection, alteration or repair of a building, bridge, railroad, railway, or structure of any kind, shall, before doing business in the commonwealth, appoint in writing a person who is a citizen and resident thereof to be his or its true and lawful attorney upon whom all lawful processes against such individual or partnership may be served with like effect as if served on such person or partnership; and said writing or power of attorney shall contain an agreement on the part of the maker that the service of any lawful process on said attorney shall be of the same force and validity as service on such individual or partnership. The power of attorney shall be filed in the office of the state secretary, and copies certified by him shall be taken as sufficient evidence thereof. Such agency shall be continued so long as such individual or partnership does business as aforesaid in the commonwealth, and the power of attorney shall not be revoked until a similar power is given to another citizen and resident of the commonwealth and filed as aforesaid. If such individual or partnership fails to appoint an agent and does business in this commonwealth, service of process, in duplicate, may be made upon the state secretary. The secretary shall, upon a payment of a fee of five dollars by the plaintiff, give notice to the defendant of said action by mailing by registered mail, return receipt requested, a copy of the legal process to the defendant's last known address which shall be furnished to the secretary by the plaintiff or his attorney.


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I'm sure you're a great guy, and I certainly support you and the ACLU you in this, but your statement makes me cringe:

"The way I figure it, either you're a supporter of the ACLU, or you're opposed to portions of the US constitution. "

Is it possible that you really believe that you are privy to the One True Interpretation of the Constitution, and that anyone who disagrees with you is Anti-Constitution?

If that's true (and I'm sure you simply made an unintended overstatement), then I can guarantee that you don't have a good grip on what the Founding Fathers intended. Too much of the Constitution was deliberately (and skillfully) crafted with the understanding that honorable, educated men of good will would disagree on how it could and should be interpreted.

Of course, they didn't have to be too insightful to see that. It was happening on every streetcorner during the Constitutional Convention (with enough blindly greedy, self-interested, bad will to throw all the good will into stark relief)

I don't understand how any reasonable American that supports constitutional rights could ever be opposed to the ACLU.

Please, please! They are idealistic people who put in hard hours in support of their ideals, but they aren't deities. I would oppose this characterization of anyone -- Linus and RMS (who I knew back in the 70's, when it was an interesting experience and often a privilege, but not some sort of twisted honor) included.

Do you ever disagree with your sig. other? Heroes? Self? I do. It's called life. It's messy. That's why I like Ideals. They're tidier. I like to think the ACLU would defend my right to disagree.

They support constitutional rights, fairly, every time. Even when they do something that I don't like, which is a good chunk of the time, I'm entirely in favour of it.

Now that's downright silly. I understand you're going through a lot, and you probably tired. Lord knows that there have been times when I've been under life-altering attack for no other reason than that I was painfully clearly right; and I'd probably have built an altar and performed human sacrifices (well almost) to the ACLU if they'd rescued me (they might have, if I'd brought it to their attention. My issues had that kind of scope)

But I am never in favor of people doing anything I don't like. (I try to keep my definition of 'like' in line with that -- to do otherwise is to risk hypocracy and other self-deceptive evils) At best, I am glad that I live in a world where they can and do oppose me on a relatively level playing field -- because I know I'm not always right, and because I know what it's like to play on an uneven playing field.

To tell me that you are always in favor of them when they oppose you is a total abdication and abnegation of your own reason.

They're welcome to convince me (and they sometimes have) but as long as I disagree, I disagree. I hope that's what they stand for,

I am grateful to this organization (and others like it) for existing. I have also been grateful, on a few occasions, that they were opposed. i can take this position because we monkey-descendants and our self-concocted ideals are not even close to being a complete and comprehensive description of a reality that exceeds our grasp, existed before we did, and will exist after we are either gone or hopelessly mocked by descendants who have come to implicitly see the errors we never could.

But I can't blindly support anyone even when they oppose me. that would be intellectualy dishonest. Or so I grok -- and I've studied the subject seriously for over 20 years.

My apologies for correcting the "Subject:" spelling. i just couldn't look at it anymore.

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While I sometimes find the positions of the ACLU to be a bit extreme, I agree with them 102% on issues such as this.

Yup. 102% is pretty much the definition of 'a bit extreme'. I guess if you find them 'a bit extreme' you'd have to agree 102%

Sorry. Couldn't resist

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Before typing further, I'd like to say I do appreciate the spirit in which the idea was posted.

Actually, I should clarify: We have small, special purpose units that each do their jobs well and are manageable by our Ham Radio satellite organization, AMSAT. The link is available at http://www.amsat.org . They manage the sats we have and work internationally to develop new ones. Ironically, here in the U.S. a few years back when Iridium was just a twinkle in the eye, they tried to steal our frequencies for their network. (I am assuming the Little LEO's became Iridium). We all sat back and asked, 'Why in the world would a company want 2400 baud satellite info at 150 Mhz?' Apparently, to lose several billion.

To be honest, I hate seeing that much cash go bye-bye, and losing several nice working satellites is a real bummer, but I'd rather have their frequencies auctioned off to someone who can use them. That way, Hams do not have to fight off that company to keep the frequencies we already have (and have collectively spent real personal money to buy equipment for).

Come to think about it, since Hams can contribute to AMSAT's satellites, in work and technology, share the maintenance by helping relay health data from the satellite back to AMSAT, and all Hams worldwide can use them for free once they are orbiting, I guess we also already have an Open Source satellite network. (I know, I don't think the words really apply either, but hey...)

Thanks for the reminder!

I was thinking that, but I guess I thought it was a given.

But I too, have had experiences that indicate that it isn't, not when an admin has so many other things to do in a day. Once again, many eyes makes bugs shallow.

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I've spent many hours discussing this with my sister (a JD herself, who spent many years (after getting her JD) as a computer consultant and trainer in law firms.

(as an aside: you would not believe how primitive the systems at many big firms are! Even firms that brag about how up to date they are.)

We've concluded that it's because the outlook best suited to legal training is one where argument and subjectivity rule. As Joseph Weizacker (the MIT prof who invented the term 'hacker') pointed out, one of the reasons many techie types find computers so addictively appealing is that it is so strictly rational -- unlike the largely arbitrary human world around them.

Admittedly his argument that "if the CPU doesn't run your instructions, you know you are wrong, not the machine" is a bit naive now, when computers and operating systems are so complex that errors may indeed be CPU errata or reside in flawed code elsewhere in the system. Still, I doubt few of us could tolerate 0.01% indeterminacy, much less 10%

I've had some interesting arguments with my lawyer friends over who was more 'logical': a doctor or a lawyer. (I went to med school) The best argument I have ever heard was: "Scientists have the luxury of repeating their experiments. A criminal lawyer can never repeat the crime. We have to use pure logic, and available data."

"Yes," I said, "but isn't it true that most legal cases would turn out differently with a different judge, argument, or other detail that had nothing to do with actual guilt or innocence?"

"Of course," she said, as if scientific reproducibility was irrelevant, "So what?" Her definition of 'logic' was directly descended from the Greek 'rhetoric' (In ancient Greek courts, evidence was largely irrelevant -- it was a matter of swaying the masses who showed up)

I've given her 'lawyers are more logical' argument to many lawyers in our debates (they think it's as clever as I did) but none has ever done as good a job of defending it as she did -- or been impressed with the need for reproducibility. I guess they can't be -- it would drive them crazy in their work. Most cases are reproducible, given the arguments used, but if even 1% aren't, it would eat at their souls. [no jokes]

A doctor has to live with a lot of uncertainty, but at least there isn't anoth er team of doctors on the other side, trying to kill the patient.

BTW, because law recognizes the indeterminacy of court cases, a legal appeal usually is NOT PERMITTED to use a better argument. You have to argue an error in the original proceedings, given the original arguments.

Atty. Einstein, your appeal is rejected, as were the previous appeals by Newton et alia, on the grounds that they were not raised in the original Aristotle v. Observable Universe

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A lot of work, but easily automated:

1) If the law becomes effective, yank your server HDD's and place them in off-line machines

2) post a new '404' on your server that says all
accounts need to be re-registered

3) as accounts are re-registered, copy each user directory back on the server (automate this to be a customer service one-click function)

4) (optional) since the real concern of the original french article seemed to be datamining, add a watermarking routine to your server that stamps each page with the user info (as Geocities once did with their logo) It should be hard for OCR to read the watermarked data against a variety of user backgrounds. Concerned users would use 'privacy enhancing backgrounds' until the European parliament has a chance to point out that French laws (more the Jan 19 law (which madated release of user info to all third parties) than the current one) are illegal under European data privacy.

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The Admin is only liable if he doesn't exercise the equivalent of 'due diligence' in requiring the users to identify themselves when they first register for webspace.

What is due diligence in France? I don't know. Would e-mail address verification count? I certainly recall that requirement (though not government mandated) on many US sites going back to the 70's (E.g. Denver U. FreeNet public shell access account had a variety of methods including a nominal $1 personal check; or all the school and work accounts I've ever had)



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CmdrTaco says: "The immediate consequence for this is that free Web hosting services in France, like altern.org or multimania.com, won't be able to continue. "

Hardly. It merely requires that they make a creditable attempt to ensure users identify themselves when they register.

However, on Jan. 19, the French passed a law that said hosts had to provide this ID info to any third party. The original French article seemed quite emphatic that they were afraid of 'data harvesting' by commercial interests (in violation of European data privacy laws) not freedom of speech issues.

The January law was objectionable, and probably illegal in Europe. In its absence, the current law would simply force the hosts to have something to turn over (under court order), or take liability for the things that are said (if there was criminal or civil liability: libel, etc.). But combine the two laws, and it's mandatory publishing of private info.

(incidentally, a stopgap might be to automark watermark the info onto the page with a graphic, as Geocities does (did) with their logo. Human readable, and automated (hence cheaper than responding to individual requests), yet hard or impossible to harvest (I don't think current OCR would be up to it, given the highly variable page backgrounds) Clearly what the spammers want is a datadisk of 'all users'

BTW, will someone fill us in on what the French definition of 'due diligence' ('diligences appropriées') is?

I certainly find it interesting that the original French article doesn't express any real outrage at: "Les auteurs de sites web doivent donner leur identité à leur hébergeur préalablement à toute communication publique sous peine prison."
[My translation: "Web authors must identify themselves to their hostsite before publicly publishing, under pain of prison" -- up to six months, I believe. In other words: don't lie on your registration form.]



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At first I thought Big Brother (okay, Frere Grand) was just petulant at the prospect of not having someone to slap around, if something embarrassing gets posted -- but I think we should be looking for deeper implications (aside from the obvious potential spread of this precedent to other jurisidictions)

Thus far, I have only been able to come up with one: civil liability in libel cases, the release of commercially privileged info, hoax sites (with possible criminal intent) etc. It would at least give the injured party someone to sue. While not innocuous, I think this may be justifiable. What nation defines "free speech" as including the right to lie? Or a protected right to hide one's malicious wrongdoing? (Note: I specified civil liability here, which narrows the issue to damages to a 'innocent' party)

On its face, this law is futile, since there is no shortage of anonymous and free (as beer) hosting on the internet. Unless they close the e-borders, any French person can simply set up shop in the US and any french person can see such a page. (Note: the law holds French sys admins liable vs. forcing French end users to identify themselves in all web pages they own)

It could readily be represented as a 'principled stand' against 'anonymous (written) terrorism'. I'm not sure I'd buy it, but it's not outrageous.

Orpheus "yelling 'Liar' in a crowded public forum"



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Amateur Radio satellites are perhaps the greatest experiment ever achieved by civilians without recurring to government funding. Currently, there are about 9 OSCAR satellites ('OSCAR' meaning 'Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio') and 15 MicroSats. Most of these got into space by being piggy-backed into some rocket as a secondary payload during the launch of something larger (like a weather satellite), making the cost rather low.

AMSAT has a new satellite, the Phase 3D, which is scheduled for launch on an Ariane in July. The funding for the launch came from donations by radio amateurs (making it look like PBS), organisations like the American Radio Relay League, and other sources. Being a larger satellite, the Phase 3D has to be launched individually, raising the cost to what is now considered average. The fact that Phase 3D is going to space this summer should be used as a standard.

Amateur Radio satellites are perhaps the greatest experiment ever achieved by civilians without recurring to government funding. Currently, there are about 9 OSCAR satellites ('OSCAR' meaning 'Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio') and 15 MicroSats. Most of these got into space by being piggy-backed into some rocket as a secondary payload during the launch of something larger (like a weather satellite), making the cost rather low.

AMSAT has a new satellite, the Phase 3D, which is scheduled for launch on an Ariane in July. The funding for the launch came from donations by radio amateurs (making it look like PBS), organisations like the American Radio Relay League, and other sources. Being a larger satellite, the Phase 3D has to be launched individually, raising the cost to what is now considered average. The fact that Phase 3D is going to space this summer should be used as a standard.

I tend to agree that the SAVEIRIDIUM site is a scam to get people to sign up for a Visa card. There's no real content on that site.

--
ib

--- Speaking only for myself,

Before chasing the unfeasible, look into AMSAT These guys have a real amateur satellite system (over 30 satellites, 20 currently operational) going back 30+ years.

If the S.O.S people excite you, consider contributing your efforts here. They have a strong volunteer/hacker base of regulatory and technical know-how and experience that most of us obviously never believed could exist! If they don't want Iridium, it's not workable; and if they do... they are 501(3)(c) certified, so Iridium could conceivably be donated. AZny way you look at it, they're a lot more qualified to run the network than the SOS guys.

(from the web page http://amsat.org/amsat/amsat-na/amhist.html)

The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (as AMSAT is officially known) was formed in 1969 as a not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) educational organization chartered in the District of Columbia. Its aim is to foster Amateur Radio's participation in space research and communication. Since that time, other like-minded groups throughout the world have formed to pursue the same goals. Many of these groups share the "AMSAT" name. While the affiliations between the various groups are not formal, they do cooperate very closely with one another. For example, international teams of AMSAT volunteers are often formed to help build each other's space hardware, or to help launch and control each other's satellites.

Since the very first OSCAR satellites (OSCAR stands for Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio) were launched in the early 1960s, AMSAT's international volunteers, often working quite literally in their basements and garages, have pioneered a wide variety of new communications technologies that are now taken for granted in the world's satellite marketplace. These breakthroughs have included some of the very first satellite voice transponders as well as highly advanced digital "store-and-forward" messaging transponder techniques. All of these accomplishments have been achieved through close cooperation with international space agencies which often have provided launch opportunities at significantly reduced costs in return for AMSAT's technical assistance in developing new ways to launch paying customers. Spacecraft design, development and construction has also occurred in a fiscal environment of individual AMSAT member donations, thousands of hours of volunteer effort, and the creative use of leftover materials donated from aerospace industries worldwide.


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Before chasing the unfeasible, look into AMSAT These guys have a real amateur satellite system (over 30 satellites, 20 currently operational) going back 30+ years.

If the S.O.S people excite you, consider contributing your efforts here. They have a strong volunteer/hacker base of regulatory and technical know-how and experience that most of us obviously never believed could exist! If they don't want Iridium, it's not workable; and if they do... they are 501(3)(c) certified, so Iridium could conceivably be donated. AZny way you look at it, they're a lot more qualified to run the network than the SOS guys.

(from the web page http://amsat.org/amsat/amsat-na/amhist.html)

The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (as AMSAT is officially known) was formed in 1969 as a not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) educational organization chartered in the District of Columbia. Its aim is to foster Amateur Radio's participation in space research and communication. Since that time, other like-minded groups throughout the world have formed to pursue the same goals. Many of these groups share the "AMSAT" name. While the affiliations between the various groups are not formal, they do cooperate very closely with one another. For example, international teams of AMSAT volunteers are often formed to help build each other's space hardware, or to help launch and control each other's satellites.

Since the very first OSCAR satellites (OSCAR stands for Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio) were launched in the early 1960s, AMSAT's international volunteers, often working quite literally in their basements and garages, have pioneered a wide variety of new communications technologies that are now taken for granted in the world's satellite marketplace. These breakthroughs have included some of the very first satellite voice transponders as well as highly advanced digital "store-and-forward" messaging transponder techniques. All of these accomplishments have been achieved through close cooperation with international space agencies which often have provided launch opportunities at significantly reduced costs in return for AMSAT's technical assistance in developing new ways to launch paying customers. Spacecraft design, development and construction has also occurred in a fiscal environment of individual AMSAT member donations, thousands of hours of volunteer effort, and the creative use of leftover materials donated from aerospace industries worldwide.


My new .sig: Join AMSAT

The amsats are really not secure, but you should be concerned with sending anything out over wireless. Yes, even digital wireless.

You can, if you want to, talk on these amsats, cool to chat with someone on the other side of the world.

For more info check out the Amateur Radio Relay League for info about becoming a ham and AMSAT for info on pass times and frequencies.

If you really want to talk. There are guys who bounce morse code off the moon. Talk about distance.

KC5Z?? - to remain anonymous

The biggest problem is that the FCC would have to take special action to allocate the frequencies Iridium uses for amateur use which I think is rather unlikely. It's still IMO no more unlikely than the SOS people actually coming up with the funds to buy it.

Actually there are satellites up there for non-profit Amateur Radio use, don't know anything about how much they cost or where the funding comes from - but it would be a neat idea <FANTASY> if the court just turns the whole thing over to public use untill such time as it fails from lack of maintenance - ok, here it is, here's the freq, here's what you need to access it, go for it, but when it fails, it's over</FANTASY>.

• Patronage (subscription) - Is this so outrageous? Hardly. It's a very viable model in many areas of society, from a huge array of non-profits [e.g. 'Consumer Union'and their Consumer Reports magazine], special interest groups [AARP, NRA] cultural groups [most local symphonies, etc.], and numerous other institutions. Would you pay $5 directly to the [band of your choice] fan club to keep the free music flowing? Remember, they retain their current primary income from gigs, concerts, live media appearances, etc.
• "Play-for-Pay" CD: The band agrees to release (or produce) an album, a specified number
  of people subscribe to it, assuring production costs and reasonable income are met. Subscriptions are not charged to the subscriber credit card until the threshold is met.
  
• "Play-for-Pay" performances: The band agrees to a gig, concert, whatever in a specific
  city, when sufficient subscriptions are made. In this case there are several options:
  
  • Additional ticket sale beyond the threshold (after concert is announced) are bonus income
  • Pledge price deducted from ticket price (or given an even larger discount)
  • based on the budgets of programs like Boston's free 'Concerts on the Common', which has
    very popular headliners, I'd say we could readily fund FREE public concerts by major groups,
    using a very attainable number of subscribers. (Music wants to be free?)
  • Companies, groups, or radio stations can sponsor, too, as they often do today
  • subscribers benefit from 'helping the event happen' even if they don't attend, because
    the 'live in concert' MP3 will be circulating, free and legal, in the morning. The musician's
    commodity cannot be 'stolen'. He's already been paid. You can't pirate 'LIVE'!
  
  
• Increased fees fo commercial use, free private use, as done in most fields.

1) GPL covers DISTRIBUTION not modification. You are free to modify your own copy AT WILL

2) You are not free to distribute the MODIFIED FORM of a GPL'ed work, except under GPL.

3) The question of whether you use DIFF or PATCH to generate changes is irrelevant. A GPL'ed program may be used to generate non-GPL'ed works, like The Great American Novel (or Great Asian OS). In the case of DIFF, the 'source code' is just data, just another textfile.

4) Unlike GPL, many licenses contain language to forbid the processes (e.g. reverse engineering) required to create your own patches, or forbid unauthorized alteration. (This is a gray area. The interpretation and enforceability of such language is subject to the time, place, laws, and other details.)

5) IF you have the right to modify your own copy, you may use a program to automate the process. It can even ship on the same CD. (There is no code apartheid! GPL and non-GPL'ed source/binary often exist on the same media.)

6) A court may look askew at "mix your own" boot CD's that say "Do you agree to our license?" and then automatically install/modify in one apparent step. Then again, it may not. That's for a judge to decide. Whether something legal is 'effectively' something illegal is one of the slipperiest issues in law. Often judges allow obvious circumventions (going around a one-way street to get to the other end is allowed; while training your parrot to shoot your wife isn't)

7) "clean room" code writing *does* exist, whether you can 'imagine' it or not. Given that, the actual code that is patched into the original may owe nothing to GPL code, outside of the general art of programming. If diligent 'clean room' can be documented, even identical code can be deemed to be 'coincidence' not infringement. So don't rely on commonality of code (or your imaginings) to protect your license.

8) Most users don't care. They don't read licenses. They certainly don't base their purchase decisions on that stuff.

9) It's awfully easy for a lot of people to insist on their right to do something, and fume at others for doing it, in the same sentence. Being a hacker doesn't entitle you to drawback-free solutions. In fact, hackers need to understand the need and ubiquity of compromises. If you don't get that, I hope I never see your code, much less install it on my machine.

10) AFAIK, GPL has not been proofed in the courts. Even if it was, licenses get broken (it happens), and when they are provebly broken, the result is usually a settlement, not eternal damnation. After all, licenses exist for commercial purposes, not theological ones.


My new .sig: Join AMSAT

Another issue is that I understand the Irridium birds are a serious problem to astronomers, especially radio astronomers.

The amateur satellite community has it's attention on "Phase 3 D", which is an amazing, sophisticated piece of engineering, 100% ham radio. It's slated to ride an Ariane 5 to a highly eccentic sun-synchronous orbit, perhaps as soon as July.

The two primary resources I'd recommend looking into are:

- Embedded Computing
- ARRL
- RAC

...those are just some starting points. Embedded computing applications have the hardware designed for rugged environments, and amateur radio is a handy technical resource for do-it-yourself electronics. Remote relay stations are the norm, not to mention other extremes.

Search engines are your friends, particularly Google.

de VE3SLG

Though P3D may be new to many Slashdot readers, Amateur Radio ("Ham Radio") operators around the world have been working on it for years. AMSAT reports that the satellite just passed the vibration and spin tests and the next step is to get it to the launch site, where it will fly as a secondary payload on a rocket with a commercial satellite to launch. It's something like the 33rd Amateur Radio satellite (not counting the Ham Radio stations on Mir and the Space Shuttles.) The launch date has not been announced yet - should be late thie year or early next year.

Once P3D is up, all you need is a Ham Radio license and you can transmit to talk to people on it. Even the entry level licenses with no Morse Code requirements will do. For info on getting a US Amateur Radio license, check out the American Radio Relay League or an Amateur Radio club in your area.

Though P3D may be new to many Slashdot readers, Amateur Radio ("Ham Radio") operators around the world have been working on it for years. AMSAT reports that the satellite just passed the vibration and spin tests and the next step is to get it to the launch site, where it will fly as a secondary payload on a rocket with a commercial satellite to launch. It's something like the 33rd Amateur Radio satellite (not counting the Ham Radio stations on Mir and the Space Shuttles.) The launch date has not been announced yet - should be late thie year or early next year.

Once P3D is up, all you need is a Ham Radio license and you can transmit to talk to people on it. Even the entry level licenses with no Morse Code requirements will do. For info on getting a US Amateur Radio license, check out the American Radio Relay League or an Amateur Radio club in your area.