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> Would you care to explain how it is that the PPC Linux developers are able to develop an OS for these machines for which specs are not available?

If you read Be OS Bible, Be explains that they didn't think it would be nice to support hardware that Apple has refused to give them help with.

Is it an excuse? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares, Intel hardware is cheaper anyways ;-)

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BeOS is a better Windows/MacOS then Windows/MacOS.

I am one of the few developers to actually ship a commercial application, Spellswell from Working Software. I've kept Spellswell actively maintained over a couple of years, it is now at version 1.0.5.

So I didn't appreciate it when Be announced it was dropping active support for the desktop and "refocusing" on Internet Appliances.

Now promoting the system for Internet appliances is fine, but Be had spent years promoting its system as a platform for multimedia content creation, and in my view it is the best platform for desktop software. Check out, for instance, Gobe Software's Gobe Productive, one of the best integrated applications available.

While Be still has a desktop operating system and gives it away for free, it has made it clear that there will be no further desktop-specific development for the operating system; if a feature or bug-fix makes it into the system it will be because it is needed for Internet Appliances, and not because it is needed for the desktop.

I repeatedly tried to bring this failure to live up to its commitments on bedevtalk and beusertalk and while other professional developers supported my position, I was constantly shot down by the hobbyists and Be's own employees.

Finally I tried to point out the error of their ways in some detail by posting this to bedevtalk:

Some of Use Work For a Living

in which I pointed out that the appropriate response to criticism from developers like me would be for Be employees who subscribe to the list to communicate our concerns to senior management.

How did Be respond?

Tom Maddox, listmaster@be.com, unsubscribed me and asked the list if they'd prefer to have the entire list moderated.

Before you decide to devote time and energy to developing BeOS software, I ask you to consider whether you wish to take the risk to invest your time and money in a system that is only available from a company that has not only proved it cannot keep its commitments, it has stated repeatedly it does not want its dishonesty pointed out to it and will actively work to censor those who would work to correct its behaviour.

One of the reasons I am working to reorient my consulting business to take primarily Linux work is that I feel it is a mistake for any third party software developer to depend on any API, particularly an operating system, that they do not have the source code to.

If you feel you must support a closed-source operating system or API, I urge you to require the API vendor to sign a contract guaranteeing they will support the API forever - both in terms of maintainence and marketing - or else they will reimburse you for your lost revenue and opportunity cost if they fail to live up to their commitments.

I had much the same experience with Apple Computer which is why I became a BeOS developer.

BTW - My fiance told me that being unsubscribed from bedevtalk is like being kicked off the design committee for the Edsel. It's a beautiful OS and the engineering quality is excellent, but the sales prevention team there, uh, I mean the management, is determined to do everything they can to prevent the business from succeeding.

Perhaps Internet Appliances are a good idea, but after the galling lack of marketing cluefulness shown when they were on the desktop I seriously doubt they can get it together to succeed in the Internet Appliance arena either.

If you are an Internet Appliance manufacturer, think about whether you want to make your livelihood dependent on a company with a proven track record of failing to live up to its commitments. Consider that in many was QNX is a better OS for appliance and you can get a developer kit for free.

I don't think Linux is a very good platform either for the desktop or Internet Appliances but because it is free software that problem is capable of being addressed.

Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow

I am one of the few developers to actually ship a commercial application, Spellswell from Working Software. I've kept Spellswell actively maintained over a couple of years, it is now at version 1.0.5.

So I didn't appreciate it when Be announced it was dropping active support for the desktop and "refocusing" on Internet Appliances.

Now promoting the system for Internet appliances is fine, but Be had spent years promoting its system as a platform for multimedia content creation, and in my view it is the best platform for desktop software. Check out, for instance, Gobe Software's Gobe Productive, one of the best integrated applications available.

While Be still has a desktop operating system and gives it away for free, it has made it clear that there will be no further desktop-specific development for the operating system; if a feature or bug-fix makes it into the system it will be because it is needed for Internet Appliances, and not because it is needed for the desktop.

I repeatedly tried to bring this failure to live up to its commitments on bedevtalk and beusertalk and while other professional developers supported my position, I was constantly shot down by the hobbyists and Be's own employees.

Finally I tried to point out the error of their ways in some detail by posting this to bedevtalk:

Some of Use Work For a Living

in which I pointed out that the appropriate response to criticism from developers like me would be for Be employees who subscribe to the list to communicate our concerns to senior management.

How did Be respond?

Tom Maddox, listmaster@be.com, unsubscribed me and asked the list if they'd prefer to have the entire list moderated.

Before you decide to devote time and energy to developing BeOS software, I ask you to consider whether you wish to take the risk to invest your time and money in a system that is only available from a company that has not only proved it cannot keep its commitments, it has stated repeatedly it does not want its dishonesty pointed out to it and will actively work to censor those who would work to correct its behaviour.

One of the reasons I am working to reorient my consulting business to take primarily Linux work is that I feel it is a mistake for any third party software developer to depend on any API, particularly an operating system, that they do not have the source code to.

If you feel you must support a closed-source operating system or API, I urge you to require the API vendor to sign a contract guaranteeing they will support the API forever - both in terms of maintainence and marketing - or else they will reimburse you for your lost revenue and opportunity cost if they fail to live up to their commitments.

I had much the same experience with Apple Computer which is why I became a BeOS developer.

BTW - My fiance told me that being unsubscribed from bedevtalk is like being kicked off the design committee for the Edsel. It's a beautiful OS and the engineering quality is excellent, but the sales prevention team there, uh, I mean the management, is determined to do everything they can to prevent the business from succeeding.

Perhaps Internet Appliances are a good idea, but after the galling lack of marketing cluefulness shown when they were on the desktop I seriously doubt they can get it together to succeed in the Internet Appliance arena either.

If you are an Internet Appliance manufacturer, think about whether you want to make your livelihood dependent on a company with a proven track record of failing to live up to its commitments. Consider that in many was QNX is a better OS for appliance and you can get a developer kit for free.

I don't think Linux is a very good platform either for the desktop or Internet Appliances but because it is free software that problem is capable of being addressed.

Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow

When I see kids waving their Nokia phones with the Nike swoosh as the operator logo (in icelandic, scroll down for picture), and think they are soo cool and then think that some poor kid has spent minutes drawing the logo, I feel a bit depressed. Now, I dislike Nike, and wouldn't be cought dead wearing clothes with their logo on. (Or any garments producer logo) but on the other hand I wear my Linux/BeOS/FreeBSD t-shirts proudly. Does that make me a hypocryte? I think not. I have a Toyota t-shirt which I only wear at home when no-one sees :)
It's a sad, sad world we live in...and I need my coffie
J.

The BeOS has been out for a while and is currently at release # 4.5.2. Do you mean "released" for some non-x86 non-ppc hardware?

Same here. Picked up my copy of BeOS 4.5 shrink-wrapped with Scot Hacker's excellent The BeOS Bible at MicroCenter in north Dallas for the same cost as the "deluxe" RedHat 6.1 distro.

Compare both of these to the cost of new copy of Win98 (not the upgrade, but a full, brand new license). This goes for what ? around $175 ?

I am on crack. The Demo CD is now up to the current version V. 4.5, and the link directly to it is here.

It costs $10, but if you purchase the demo CD you can knock $10 off the purchase of 4.5. Not like anyone is going to be purchasing 4.5 with 5.0 being.. ahem free. I would say now it's just a matter of waiting for the free 5.0.

There is a demo of Ver. 3 available.. it's like $5 or something.. I've got one.. nothing spectacular... boots from the CD.. you can't install on any media...


bedepot.com I think has it

It's already in progress as per John Carmac's 5-19-99 plan file:

I know SMP is a que for all the BeOS folks to ask about ports, so I'm going to head that off: Be has all the code for Q3 (and Q2, for that matter), and a version of Q3test should be available by the time they ship a release OS with OpenGL hardware acceleration.

A quote from Andrew Kimpton, the fellow doing the BeOS port (from an email to the BeUserTalk Mailing list 5-28-99):

On the matter of release dates it's important to remember that what has currently been released for Linux, Windows, MacOS et al is Q3Test this NOT Quake 3: Arena. It's a test program to explore hardware compatibility issues and the like. The final release date for Quake 3:Arena has not been set (to the best of my knowledge) however I believe it's expected it to be later in the year perhaps late Summer/Fall or there abouts. By which time Genki will have been released and undoubtedly installed in many a system.

Quake 2 has been released (gotta have a 3dfx video card though). Genki's shiped but the buzz is Q3 won't be released until Be's OpenGL supports multitexturing.

Politics aside, Be sells a "demo" cd for $10 if you want to try it out without committing to the full price.


You can order it here.

i follow the quote for 3 hours, now it's about $8... I really hope Be Inc. will raise money so BeOS will start to fly!
For those of you who don't know, QuakeII is available (free binary) at BeDepot
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http://www.beroute.tzo.com

There have been efforts like the "good software group", or Linux or BeOS's streamlined systems, or even GNU to an extent. I mean to be skeptical. What is "better"? Do we mean our smaller, more manageable systems which have less features and don't crash? I argue that anyone can make a small program which doesn't crash... it's adding features that mucks things up. Microsoft has always pushed the envelope for features, at the expense of backward compatability, robustness, and even good taste (remember the Word Paper clip?) But isn't that what their consumers wanted?

This is how they won. Now they are the biggest company in the world because everyone else just didn't get it... push the envelope on features and market those features . BeOS, Linux, and every other system has to play catch-up on the stupid features, now, if they want the Windows marketshare.

But better designed, streamlined, and fully functional unix stations seem better to us. That's because we aren't Microsoft customers, never really were, and never will be. We want something else, all we really wanted is the *choice* of which features we get. And the coolest new features, not the most. Does this mean Microsoft is wrong and we're right? In a way, no. They have more money. But we have our OS, now.

-Ben