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Be Inc. IPO launched
arielb writes "Be, Inc. is now trading actively on the Nasdaq exchange.. Their ticker symbol is BEOS."
They announced at $6 and went up a little.
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They already raised money. The stock price only affects them if they offer more stock at a later date, in which case short term fluctuations over the little while won't matter.
Sure, a small increase like that wouldn't be surprising for RedHat, but how will you convince the investment bankers to reserve some stock for you at the opening price?
If you can't afford to spend $1000 to start an E-Trade account then you probably shouldn't be gambling on the stock market. Consider it no better than going to Las Vegas and throwing all your money down on "black". ;-)
What I think is even more refreshing is the share volume. Granted, this is an IPO, so there's bound to be some interest, but a share volume of over 8 million on the first day isn't bad, I don't think. Can someone with some real knowledge on investing clarify? Is this the amount traded today? Or number of shares currently available for purchase (ie, owned by underwriters or other investors, i think this is called shares outstanding)? Is 8 million a good number?
Who ever send this in, THANXZ! I like to hear about the "little(er)" guys when they first get into the market :) Just think, if someone dumped $2000 into BeOS or RRedHat right now, they would be sitting pretty in a year.
I would guess that a reasonable chunk of the Intel money has been spent. I would also guess that they are going to hire more engineers to round out the hardware support, and also spend some money on advertising. I think the next 2 years will decide Be's fate - I really hope they succeed (I ordered BeOS 4.5 about an hour ago!).
I opened an account with WellsTrade, a service of Wells Fargo today with just $1000. I then bought 100 shares of Be stock.
Woo Hoo!
-ck
I disagree. Be has lasted a good 4 years already up against other companies, and they only keep growing. Be has one product now and many people are picking them up. AST is selling computers with BeOS on them, game companies are looking into BeOS ports almost as often as they are linux ports. Many companies are coming to BeOS. Its young, thats the only problem, and its probably going to be a rocky road. Be has quite a few things to hold on to, if nothing else, it can scale down incredibly small, to fit on these internet appliances, much like linux, except people agree that BeOS is easy to use. People have said that linux didn't have a chance, and with time companies started porting. It took it several years as well. If things like Quake 2 keep getting as decent reviews under BeOS (mostly from Ars Technica on the visual look being better than the win32 look, despite the slow experimental drivers. Lets see. There are several companies bundling BeOS including AST. There are a few internet appliances looking into Be as well. Its a cheap, complete alternative to windows as can be seen with the iToaster. Its starting to appear in stores. Game companies are porting, commercial companies including MetaCreations and Electronic Arts are porting. I think this is an excellent start, and a much better start than linux ever got off to. Not to mention Be still has a few tricks up their sleeves for alternate products to make money.
But Gassee has 10%, so he *did* make $1.2 million today (on paper).
So his 600,000 shares are worth around $5 million, or about one ten-thousandth as much as Gates' MS stock.
Yeah, I have this old 386 with 2MB ram. I hope Be spends their $36 million porting BeOS to my system. Just think of the huge market out there.
In other words, Be's not going to waste their money developing BeOS to run on crappy hardware. Write your own crappy hardware drivers.
1. It is very easy to install BeOS alongside Windows. BeOS doesn't have to capture 20% of the market to succeed any more than a game manufacturer needs to get their game installed on 20% of PCs to succeed. They just need a big enough share that developers will write applications.
2. Be only makes software. Being a hardware company, Apple has big fixed expenses (factories, etc.) that require major economies of scale to be competitive.
I think it is a longshot that BeOS will displace Windows (OK, an extreme longshot), but it isn't at all unlikely that they can become a dual-boot OS on a few percent of Windows machines - that's all they need to survive.
Be need's this money for operating cash, they haven't grown such that they need to break over to the other side like a lot of smaller companies who end up IPOing. They need it to keep afloat because they've been losing money for years now. That's not to say that they don't have a good chance but it's not all roses from here, it's going to get a lot harder for them..
My point is that, admitting that BeOS is wonderful and has great potential, until it has something to offer that Windows can't BeOS won't last in the long run.
Will performance, ease-of-use and stability do?
> God, let's hope AOL doesn't buy them. It'll turn
> into bloatware so fast, your head will spin.
> AOL Instant Messenger for BeOS...
Already have it. ever heard of BeAIM?
It seems like a lot.
But i think they really needed 60% gain or more to have long term viability...
It ain't written in stone and I hope I'm wrong. Just that's the way lots of Internet IPO's have shaped up, if I remember correctly...
Nineteen days more to what?? If MSFT drops 5% 19 days in a row it will be at 36% of the original value. Considering MS is the highest valued company in the world that's a whole lot of stock value.
think of the stock losing $5 per day, not 5% per day from the previous day's value.
"If Linux proves anything, it proves that the only way to brawl with Microsoft and survive is to change the rules of the game - to (forgive me) think different."
Think is a verb and therefore needs to be modified with an adverb. You should use "differently" in this situation, not "different."
There were no garantees. They said $8-10, maybe more, maybe less, and it turned out lower.
Be has gone after the audio market first and foremost, and they look posied to dominate it in the next year. The visual arts come next, and video will be a far bigger market for Be than graphic design. Then there's that whole internet appliance thing.
More like Be asked for $300 million and would have taken $150 million. Apple decided to get NeXTSTEP for $400 million because it was "complete" and two years later they still haven't released Mac OS X (client).
More to the point...
That "37%" gain wasn't realized by anyone. All the low and high bids mean is that someone bought SOME shares of BEOS for $6, and someone else sold SOME shares of BEOS for $10. They're probably not the same person, and even if they are, the quantities of shares sold at "the top of the market" are generally very small.
Probably some lucky people realized as much as 15% gains in a single day. But 15% on a typical small trade of $1000 or so isn't very much money. A programmer earns more than that in a day, and the day spent programming gets him marketable skills to boot. A day spent 'day trading' gets you nada aside from money (and not even that, 50% of the time); no marketable skills, no respect from your peers, no flirting with the cute chick in Sales, nothing.
Ah to hell with it, this is Slashdot, where nobody understands the mechanics of economic trade. Why bother explaining anything?
The BeOS does have a POSIX compliant terminal.
Please LEARN about the BeOS before you pan it.
Well, of course DIVX didn't have 10 years worth of entrenchment in the market before DVD showed up, did it? Besides, you analogy is flawed in so many other ways I won't even bother going into it.
1995? Wasn't Windows 3.1 in use then? Just like Windows has evolved, Be has evolved. As a user of Windows98/NT/Linux and BeOS, my favorite is the BeOS.
Faster and more stable than the others, I only have to put up with a LARGE amount of misinformation and misunderstanding from people until they actually learn about it. Take the time and get a copy of the BeOS. You will be immpressed - I was.
OK, this is late and I don't have a life.
But since you were polite, I'll answer some of these points...
>1) Port to PowerPC. Not necessary for BeOS,
>but apparently NeXT (just like everyone else)
>had done some work there in the
>early 90s.
Right, though Be did port BeOS to Intel a year ago, which proves they can work quicker than Apple.
>2) Run the old MacOS in the "Blue Box" on top
>of the new OS. Probably has more to do with
>hooks in the MacOS itself than the
>new OS, so equal work for either.
Be already had "Virtual Mac" in the works (by a third party). It was dropped, but the arguably better SheepShaver was released. Advantage Be.
>3) Overhaul the look-and-feel of the BeOS, write
>a new "Finder" - I haven't used BeOS, so I don't
>know how close they already
>are, but lets assume equal work for either Be
>or Next.
Next and Be both had good UIs at that time. Be has since refined theirs to be (IMO) superior to Mac OS. Plus, if you know the trick, you can have the look of the Mac GUI in BeOS. Advantage Be.
>4) Develop "Carbon", a transition API, for the
>established Mac software base. Again, probably
>equal work for either Be or Next.
Most developers were enthusiastic about moving to a truly modern OS, less so than with the Unix-derived NextSTEP. But I'll conceed equality here.
Score Be: 3 NeXT: 0 ties: 1
Plus if you consider the fact that BeOS runs on most all those PowerPCs that were shipping 2 years ago, and Mac OS X *won't*, Be has proven themselves the better choice. BeOS will also run on non-Apple G3 upgraded PowerPCs. If Apple wouldn't sure them, they'd run on Apple G3s too.
>So, even if they'd bought BeOS, I don't see
>MacOSX Client coming out any earlier. Plus, they
>wouldn't have the added extras
>that they got with NeXTStep - multiuser,
True.
>postscript drawing engine,
BeOS has a great graphics engine.
>UNIX,
Unix isn't a selling point with me, but BeOS does have a POSIX layer.
>plus Web Objects
Be has more than their share of buzzwords to bring
to the table.
>and a number of existing
>NeXTStep apps and companies.
There are 10,000 registered BeOS developers and around 1000 available apps.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Apple willing to pay $400 million for Be when they evaluated their future OS strategy? Today Be has a market cap of $50 million. Couldn't Apple (or anyone else) acquire them now for a fraction of the amount offered two years ago?
Tomorrow the MP3.COM IPO starts trading!!!
That one should be good for a quick buck if I buy it a minute after openning and sell at the end of the day....
Man, I think it might be a bit early to start counting them out. I mean, I like OSS and everything, but losing a little market share doesn't mean they're dead.
A better example is SGI; they're basically living off their savings right now (somewhere in the area of $100 million); they can go on for a couple more years that way. Of course, eventually the cash runs out, then you'd better do something right and quick (yeah, they're moving in the right direction, but I'm fearful that their investments in Linux may take years to pan out).
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Of course, Linux doesn't play by the same rules as the rest 'o them...
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
So yeah, I've played with it. I didn't say that it wasn't a really keen OS, did I? Actually, if you read the original post, I said that superior tech doesn't mean you win the game.
By the by, do you think that the incredibe similarity beween Linux and other UN*Xes might have something to do with it catching on in the server market? Just a thought.
I believe the point I was making was that putting your money into a company like Be is only slightly less risky and investment than burning it in your fireplace (which would at least heat your home). That's not a comment on their product, it's a comment on their business plan (which goes something like "Maybe people will want to dual-boot us! Hey, it could happen!").
In any event, if you'd take your ritlin and read my original post next time, perhaps future rants like this one could be avoided. Of course, perhaps not since I doubt your .03 second attention span has allowed you to read more than the subject line of this post, either.
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Be's stock might do well in the short run, but dumping your hard-earned saving into it is a big gamble. Let's face it, they have no long-term prospects.
I mean, this is just another company foolishly deciding to compete with Microsoft by MS's rules in a game that MS has already beaten every other contender in. If Linux proves anything, it proves that the only way to brawl with Microsoft and survive is to change the rules of the game - to (forgive me) think different.
Besides, Be has no long-term prospects and they don't have an established niche in the market yet. To top it off, the market they claim to be after (graphic design, etc) is one where the user base is infamously loyal to their current platform.
I know I'll probably get flamed 'cause BeOS is a good system, but anyone over the age of 15 should realize that that's not enough (remember MacOS versus DOS back in the old days? In retrospect, which was really better? Yet which one is used on 90% of PCs now?). Trust me, the only hope that Be has in the next couple of years is that they'll be bought out by someone big - maybe IBM or a company like AOL.
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Let's examine this: Be has effectively 0% of the market, they have only a few programs available for their OS, the market they're aiming at (graphic design, layout, etc) is already unreasonably loyal to their current platform, and they're pursuing a typical closed-source business model in a market utterly owned by MS.
Maybe I'm not seeing it? Look, $61 million isn't *that* much money when you're talking about a fairly big business, especially a business that's been operating without any income for the last 4-5 years.
Besides, what makes them different from all the other "better" systems that will let them beat Windows? I think Microsoft has already proven that nobody can stand against them when they play by the traditional rules in the OS market.
I'm not saying that BeOS is a gonner for sure, I'm just saying that they're a real long shot. I hope nobody out there makes it more than a small part of their portfolio, 'cause after a few short-term gains they're liable to lose their shirts.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Perhaps, but I'd consider it unlikely. Red Hat knows it will be receiving more media attention, so their IPO price is likely to be around $12, double that of BE's IPO price. This leaves less room for it to go up (which is what's supposed to happen - it should IPO at what's expected to be the market value, not at a ridiculously low price)
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Yeah, but you can't buy fewer than 100 shares of stock anyway. If you buy 100 shares of stock at $8, you can break even by selling them at $8.30, only a 3.75% increase in value.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
That's what we thought about OS/2. But OS/2, like BeOS, was closed-source, and its future controlled by the whims of a single company.
Now look at where OS/2 is. To this day, no better GUI has been introduced (IMHO), and there's still quite a bit of OS/2 software available, but OS/2 is pretty much dead as a desktop OS.
BeOS fans: we're not trying to tear down your OS; we're just trying to point out that Be's business plan is perhaps not all that well-though-out.
--
Um.... They did raise money, at $6 a share. That's what an IPO is. If the stock goes up, BEOS doesn't get the money, the people who sell the shares do. If the company holds onto some stock, however, selling that later might make them some money.
That's why Bill Gates is rich: he kept all his stock.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
According to the excite quote on the stock, there Market Cap is 271 million.
Jeff Knox
That BeOS earned almost half of what it expected to. They were originally going to offer the shares at $10 a throw, at the start, but had to slash this to $6.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Uh, record profits for them, sure. Record LOWS for the two quarters prior to this one. MS would have been reporting LOSSES if it wasn't for the tremendous pull from cash reserves the company took to boost their numbers...
Keep up on current events...
Unfortunately, MS isn't losing out to anybody. The dip in profits is just due to nothing new and glitzy coming out in that period to get the PHBs to purchase site licenses for... I figure MS stands to make a mint off of W2K provided:
1) It ever comes to market
2) The license doesn't have the goofy clause about auto-reporting every bit of software you install to MS... (check some of the prior proposals for Office 2000 license wording, talk about invasion of privacy).
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
Or Lotus 1-2-3
Or dBase III / IV / X
Or WordPerfect
Or PageMaker
Or Turbo Pascal / C
Or Watcom C
Or any other blinking x86 application
Sucks to go up against MS, doesn't it?
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
The stock closed at 2 1/16 up, for a total of 8 1/16. For 6 million shares, this means that Be has $12,375,000 more than during opening. If this is not good, I don't know what is.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
i follow the quote for 3 hours, now it's about $8... I really hope Be Inc. will raise money so BeOS will start to fly!
For those of you who don't know, QuakeII is available (free binary) at BeDepot
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
here's the right link of the quote
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
don't forget SBLive as well... i have the chance to have a AWE64, i don't upgrade to a SBLive because there's no driver! Also with the money i hope they will develop TNT(2) OpenGL accelerated driver!
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Right. I think they just recompiled the Release 3 driver as ELF and put it in as "experimental" because they didn't retest it. It works fine here.
Sure you can. I've bought in blocks of 200 shares, blocks of 75, blocks of 50 shares, anything you want.
easy for you to say. It was MY story :)
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BEOS came in 6th place for the day http://finance.yahoo.com/a3?u
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the whole market tanked today. You should look at the top ten gainers for the day. Be is on that list
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Avid dropped mac, right?
---
So, with all the money Be has burned through, how exactly do you propose they make it back and become profitable while giving away their software for free?
Red Hat's not turning a profit either. Businesses exist to make money, not give the world free software.
They are available. Check this out:
x .zip
ftp://ftp.be.com/pub/contrib/drivers/sb16-0.91-
They are experimental, so be careful, but i heard they work fine.
Step 1.) Read Slashdot.
Step 2.) Watch Slashdot for updates on BeOS technology.
Step 3.) When you see a significant technological breakthrough from Be, Get greedy, go postal, and buy up all remaining stock in Be.
Step 4.) After the general public gets wind of that "significant technological breakthrough", sell of your stock at double+ price.
Step 5.) Donate money to Slashdot, Myself, The FSF, Myself, and anyone else you care to give generously to. (Myself included. Hey, It was MY IDEA!)
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Adobe Premiere sucks... Try Apple Final Cut Pro or Media 100 or Avid...
RateVegas.com - Vegas Reviews
I don't think PageMaker (or any other Adobe product) has really felt any competition from Microsoft. MS is aiming at the lowend graphics market with PhotoSomething2000, but I don't know if people who buy Photoshop for $600 are really in that market. And MS Publisher - I don't think that's taken seriously at all.
Some people have successfully competed with Microsoft in the Windows app market:
+ Lotus Notes outsells Exchange client licences. (chalk that up to a huge installed base going back 10+ years)
+ Anything by Adobe
+ CorelDraw
+ FileMaker for Windows has a steadly growing
base - at least it hasn't been crushed by Access like DBase and Paradox were.
+ Anything competing with MS J++
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
All the online trading companies want you to deposit several thousand dollars before they'll let you even buy 1 share at $8. Is there a way I can buy small amounts of stock without spending more than $500. Like using a credit card?
Before BeOS - or any platform, for that matter - can get a really good footing in the market people need a good reason for using it as opposed to something else. That usually means offering an application that many people need that no one else can (or does) offer. For the Apple (back in the day) that was the spreadsheet. Lately, M$ has cloned, bought, or otherwise scuttled everyone else's efforts at making a killer app of the sort. IMHO, this is the biggest way in which M$ denies market entry to other companies. Again IMHO, the need for low-price medium-sized Web servers was what allowed Linux+Apache to break into the server market; I'm not sure whether that makes Apache the killer app for Linux or vice-versa ;) Meanwhile, there is no killer app for the Linux desktop environment. I see a link between this lack of a killer app and the slow growth of Linux in the desktop market as compared to its growth in the mid-sized server market.
My point is that, admitting that BeOS is wonderful and has great potential, until it has something to offer that Windows can't BeOS won't last in the long run.
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
What makes you think MICROS~1 is going the way of the Dodo? They just posted record profits. Don't delude your self into think that becuase Linux is chipping away at the low-end server market that linux/OSS will sweep them aside. Its like the PFJ in Monty Pythons Life Of Brian dreaming of world domination in the next 5 years.
If the DOJ keeps the pressure on MICROS~1 and they actually have to compete with people instead of crushing them before they can even get a toe hold, maybe 5 or 10 years from now they'll be a player in a market with multiple choices, rather than the abusive monopoly they are now.
Whats different about Be is that they have a technicaly excellent OS that is powerful and easy for the average user to use. They basically have the best desktop OS there is, better than Windows, Mac, and yes a better desktop OS than Linux. If they are allowed to compete on the merits of their product they will survive linux, OSS, and MICROS~1 not withstanding.
The bottom line is that BeOS is just too good to go away.
The IPO was for 6 million shares at $6 per.
Be therefore makes $6 x 6,000,000 = $36,000,000
they get this money from the underwriter, and it is the underwriter then turns around and sells those 6 million shares on the market and it is they who make money if they can sell those shares at more than $6.
If you add in Intel's $25,000,000, be has $61,000,000 on hand. Given that they've spent a total of $56,000,000 since 1990 they will be around for a long time to come which is great news for us Be fans (sorry OSS types but BeOS is here to stay)
The bottom line is that BeOS is just too good to go away.
Yes that's right folks.
Throw out your old BetaMax vs. VHS, Mac vs. DOS
analogies. We're living in the net times. A place
where a superior technology (DVD) can beat an
inferior technology with more marketing power (DIVX). Word of mouth on the net, grassroots
campaigns, etc. can push the cream to the top...
even past all the marketdroids from M$.
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
I am not that familiar with Be, other than by name and market space, but their opening day was very disappointing.
First of all, they hoped to raise $60m and when the issue finally priced, it only raised $36m for them. That sounds like a lot of money, but really is not for a high tech company. To convert that to real terms, a 200 person company can burn $3m a month just on overhead and salaries.
Also, the fact that they couldn't hit their target indicates that they were unconvincing on their roadshow. The roadshow is where price is set based on expected demand from institutional investors. An extreme case the other direction is Ariba, which priced up dramatically in the days leading upto the opening trade. Essentially, it's what the underwriter guarantees to sell their allocation at.
Finally, a 37% rise on the opening day is pitiful... it indicates that the retail investor saw little intrinsic value in the company or it's prospects for the future. Like it or not, a company stock price is a powerful currency used to attract great employees, secure business relationships and make acquisitions.
It didn't go up much?
That's about a 40% jump.
That's actually quite a bit. Most companies never seet hat high of a jump. Ever.
-cpd
I think they really have a future in the video editing department. Editing has been done on macs for years, but more and more companies are switching to NT because they "have to." If BeOS had support for editing hardware and software (adobe? hello?) they would really show their stuff. Mac people may be loyal, but they _will_ take an alternative.
...but they are going they way of the Dodo. What's makes Be different?
---
Put Hemos through English 101!
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Now I can make money off of other software companies other than Microsoft.
Ya most IPO's do that b/c of the hype. Redhat's will jump even higher Im betting. Get that stock.
obviusly not, look at microsoft
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
19 more days untill Red Hat's IPO.... I should be getting a few thousand dolars that i can invest (and subsuqently flip :P). I'll be *very* pissed if I don't get a chance to invest. I *know* they are going to go sky high. the hype is increadable (I think, although I do read slashdot a lot....)
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Wall Street types are all microsofties because Billy Boy makes them money. It's not surprising that they didn't go up much.
1st post?
The underwriter doesn't want to look bad by having an IPO they're launching to do badly. If it did, that would reflect that they screwed up by mispricing the issue. The way they guard against this is by pricing slightly conservatively, and by initally actively supporting the stock in the open market by buying it back when it is cheap. This is why IPOs can often drop after the initial increase - not only does interest wane, but the underwriter will stop supporting the stock.
On a lark, I checked out MSFT; their stock dipped over $5 (roughly, 5%) today, not that there's any connection to Be's IPO -- but one can always hope.
Anyhow, it does suggest a slogan to me:
ONLY NINETEEN MORE DAYS !!!!
I suppose we'll have to wait to see what happens to MSFT on RHAT's first day; that may be more telling.
"Oh, I hope he doesn't give us halyatchkies," said Heinrich.
Be has a shot, but a very very small one. In all likelyhood, they'll fail, but as the original poster suggested, they may get bought out. If AOL or somesuch company can snap up Be and market the BeOS (providing it's still technically superior by that time), I'll cheer.
The stock may not be a good investment, but, for many of us, it's an ethically sound one. Support the most superior OS, and if you lose your money, well, hopefully you weren't trusting enough to invest much.
BTW, as I write this, Be's stock has only gained $2 from its starting price of $6. Doesn't that strike you as a very small gain for a tech stock? Yikes...
Wah!
To bad the IPO was today with near 4% drop in NASDAQ. And rest going down too.
"Microsoft has already proven that nobody can stand against them when they play by the traditional rules in the OS market."
When was that, again?
The stock is up 37%. That is amazing. I bet the same thing happens to RHAT when they begin to actively trade. I'm rolling all of my pennies for RHAT.
BeOS is a great OS, it is fast, satble, reliable and costs less then, well, you know who. I am really pleased by BeOS and hope it gains media attention (and I hope it goes Open Source!!!).
That's my 1/50 of $1.00 US
JM
Big Brother is watching, vote Libertarian!!
--Justin Mitchell
"2nd Place is a fancy word for losing" --Bender (Futurama)