Domain: blackbirds.net
Stories and comments across the archive that link to blackbirds.net.
Comments · 9
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Politics and technology
I really enjoyed Ben Rich's book on Skunk Works. One thing that stood out to me is that the real reason we're still flying the U-2 is that Dick Chaney killed the SR-71 program, which was kind of an evolution of the U-2 program. Chaney argued that spy satellites replaced the need for airplanes to do surveillance. Turns out the reason he said that was because he was associated with companies that were into spy satellites and he didn't want the SR-71 to compete for that market. Such a shame that politics played such a large role in the neutering of America's capabilities. Most sad of all was that McNamara ordered the destruction of all plans and tooling for the SR-71. Even if the SR-71 was too expensive to fly, that's still a real crime that much of what was learned in that program has been lost.
The U-2 is probably much much cheaper to operate than the SR-71, so it's possible the SR-71 would have died anyway. But certainly politics played a huge role in its demise.
Sadly, in the current political climate it's doubtful Skunk Works would ever produce anything like the U-2, the SR-71, and the stealth fighter. Maybe it's a blessing though. The government seems hell bent on spying on even American citizens. I dunno.
http://www.blackbirds.net/sr71/fallblackbird.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=Skunk+Works%3A+A+Personal+Memoir+of+My+Years+of+Lockheed -
Re:Is this a legitimate comparison?
The latest carrier based drones have airborne refueling capabilities just like the manned jets.
If you're talking about Northrop Grumman's X-47 UCAV, it is only developmental and has not yet flown off a carrier... But yes, drones having refueling capability, buddy refueling even more so, are going to set a new standard on mission duration.
But manned jets have to contend with pilot fatigue.
UCAV too in a sense : they are constantly monitored by one or two operators (sometimes even flight-rated pilots), who DO have to manage fatigue; the good thing is they are in a facility where crews can rotate without the aircraft having to provide accommodations for all those people. These aircrafts are unmanned in the sense that there is no man ON BOARD, but there is of course a man (or woman, one or more) in the loop. This is why they are sometimes called "remotely" piloted aircraft.
One of the latest tests off a carrier was a 55 hour non-stop single drone mission. There is not a pilot in the world capable of handling missions of that length. Even the existing manned B-2 bombers that launch missions from the mid-west to targets in the middle east are pushing the limits a pilot can handle.
Wikipedia states that a B-2 mission has lasted 50 hours with round-trip flight from Barksdale AFB to the Middle-East, but I cannot find any reference of it in the official U.S. Air Force website, which states that B-52s during Operation Desert Storm used to undertake missions of 35 hours. In both cases, these are bomber aircrafts which are designed for long duration missions : the B-2 has two pilots, is thoroughly automated, and of course has a toilet. Lockheed's U-2 Dragonlady pilots are not so lucky on their 9 hours mission (see http://www.blackbirds.net/u2/u-2mission.html) at 70k feet in their astronaut-like full pressure suit.
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There was a YF-12AWhich was the fighter version of the SR 71. It didn't see much use, but they did find a way to launch weapons. From http://www.blackbirds.net/sr71/srspec.html
YF-12A
- Construction: Titanium (Beta-120/Ti-13V-11Cr-3A1) monococque w/some super-high- temperature plastics.
- Length: 101 feet, 8 inches
- Wingspan: 55 feet, 7 inches
- Wing Area: 1,795 square feet
- Height: 18 feet, 6 inches
- Landing Weight: 68,000 pounds * Maximum Gross Take-off Weight: 124,000 pounds
- Maximum Speed: 3.2 Mach above 75,000 feet
- Operational Ceiling: Classified, but probably over 80,000 feet
- Maximum Unrefueled Range: Classified
- Armament: 3 Hughes GAR-9/ AIM-47A air to air radar guided missiles (maximum speed 4 Mach)
- Powerplant Data: 2 Pratt & Whitney J58 (JT11D-20A) High-bypass-ratio turbojets
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Re:Pilot not required?
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Re:Pilot not required?
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Re:Trans-Atlantic Abort Mode SSTO
It's funny you mentioned that. Just the other day I was surfing around and came across this. Now of course, like the man says, it could be done faster; but how many executive dollars does it take to equal genuine Cold War, officer barking in your ear, do-or-die mission pressure? Nevermind the nasty chemicals and mid-air refueling procedure the thing went through (thing actually leaks fuel until the skin heats up and seals the tanks!). It's not as bad as a shuttle, of course, but still. Ouch.
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Re:correctionBzzt.
"You've probably heard the SR-71 is a severe leaker, and I'll try to put this into perspective. Once LN2 is serviced a few hours prior to launch, the fuel system becomes pressurized, and that's when the real leaks start. Normally, about five or six steady fuel leaks (about the width of a drinking straw) show up coming from both inboard wings, falling about six feet to the ground. The entire bottom of the fuselage becomes wet, and starts dripping onto the hanger floor. Some puddling starts to accumulate on top of the inboard wings, and at times runs off the wing onto the floor. In some bad leakers, fountains can be seen spraying upward from the top of the inboard wings, ranging anywhere from two inches to three feet in height."
Guy who maintained both planes > Anonymous Coward on /. -
Re:It's not smart to play with fire.
Do you know when the SR 71 started flying?
It began flying in December, 1964. However, it had already been announced by President Johnson in February of 1964! It was in this speech that the President "accidentally" switched the name from RS-71 to SR-71. A little more digging shows that the USAF Chief of Staff had intentionally switched the letters in the President's speech because he liked SR-71 better than RS-71.
B When did they start flying the "Stealth Bomber"?
Similarly, the B-2 bomber was on public display on November 22, 1988, but its first flight wasn't until July 17, 1989. The final product wasn't delivered until 1993, and it didn't see combat until 1999.
Allow me to reiterate my previous point. The government is lousy at keeping secrets! And with this constant Myth of an Aurora out there somewhere, the government would have an extremely difficult time keeping such a craft under wraps. They'd be far more likely to just announce its existence and get it over with. It's not like they'd tell the public anything useful anyway. They'd simply confirm or deny the craft's propulsion method, stealth features, and approximate cruising speed. It's real ceiling of operation would remain classified until it went out of service.
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Re:Things That Go Fast
At 50 miles, there's not enough atmosphereto sustain the SR-71's engines.
This page states the SR-71's speed is limited to at most Mach 3.8 by the shock waves off the nose entering the engine intakes.
The Mach 3.2/85kft figures are pretty well established. Anything above that is pure guesswork and/or wishful thinking.