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Obama may be a breath of fresh air,

Obama's "air" is about as fresh as the air coming out of a car's exaust pipe.

McCain is just as bad of a choice, but at least he wouldn't have the benefit of a majority in the house and a filibuster-proof senate.

If McCain wins, we're fucked. If Obama wins, we're really fucked.

It's a real shame that Barr (yes, he was a neocon, but at least he has the balls to admit he was wrong) or Baldwin don't have a chance of winning.

Bruce is the friggin' man. He ought to get some kind of advisory role in the next administration.

I'll talk to Bob and see what we can do for Bruce.

there you go. You refuse to vote for the quote/unquote third party simply because you think that candidate is unelectable (doesn't have a chance of winning).

I disagree with that notion on the grounds that it perpetuates the 2 party system. If we (the people) never take the government into our own hands and vote for the person we think best qualified and not the one that we think has a chance of winning and seems less bad than the other guy, then we don't deserve to assume that we have any part in our government.

I'm voting for Bob Barr because I think he's best qualified. And I don't give a shit if he doesn't have a chance of winning because I won't allow CNN, FOX, or any other media outlet to take away the power of *my* vote.

Really, they BOTH voted for a 700 Billion $$$ Bailout of wallstreet. Not My Street, Wallstreet.... Where HUGE bonuses for CEO's under sinking companies, and now Automakers have their hand out, where does the government takeover END!? We are heading down the road of the United Sociolistic States of North America. USSNA for short... I see it fitting nicely on the map, and we will eventually be 100% Socialized soon. Either directly with Obama wanting to "Share the wealth" or with McCain wanting to buy all these loans that are going belly up because someone has a bigger eyes than their paycheck.

I VOTE to NOT VOTE for either of these idiots! Lets make a third party count! Show them that you are SICK of the BS! It's your choise, but I'd suggest Bob Barr as a starting choice.

BTW, they BOTH voted YES to the bailout, I'm sure that was planned so that they couldnt attack each other on it, but if you ask me, THAT alone is why you should vote for either of these yahoo's! (No offense ment for YAHOO the company by lumping these two in with their name.)

My reaction when the U.S. Sentate signed the bailout:

On Passage of the Bill (H. R. 1424 As Amended )

You Son of a bitches! You Amend and hijack a bill and put the biggest corporate welfare act in the history of the United States into the bill and Push it down our throats like caster oil. You treat us like children that you can spank and send us back to bed to sleep some more while you rape, steal, and pillage our country under our noses.

NO MORE!

BE on notice that I no longer consider the United States of America in existance. I will NOT Pay Taxes to an entity that has embraced communism and gives 700billion away to save the rich and greedy while we are left to fight for our own economic survival every day. The lessons to Wall Street and banks will forever resound that they can do what they want and the Congress will fix it and make it all better, for the price.

The number of earmarks in HR 1424 is dispicable. The majority have nothing to do with any economic or financial bailout or rescue plan but server to line your own pockets with the blood and guts of your constituents.

MARK THIS VOTE, MARK THIS DAY. America has Died, and you pushed the nife in will all you might to hasten the death.

No More Votes, No More Money, and your be lucky if you don't start the next civil war. You are a worthless piece of SCUM.

-----------------

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 2nd Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary

Question: On Passage of the Bill (H. R. 1424 As Amended )
Vote Number: 213 Vote Date: October 1, 2008, 09:22 PM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Bill Passed
Measure Number: H.R. 1424 (Paul Wellstone Mental Health and Addiction Equity Act of 2007 )
Measure Title:
A bill to provide authority for the Federal Government to purchase and insure certain types of troubled assets for the purposes of providing stability to and preventing disruption in the economy and financial system and protecting taxpayers, to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide incentives for energy production and conservation, to extend certain expiring provisions, to provide individual income tax relief, and for other purposes.

Vote Counts:
YEAs 74
NAYs 25
Not Voting 1

Vote Summary by Vote Position
Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs ---74
Akaka (D-HI)
Alexander (R-TN)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burr (R-NC)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feinstein (D-C

more closely resembling the original plan of government for the U.S.

The candidate that comes closest to fitting that is Bob Barr.

Falcon

You are right about property tax. I always thought payroll tax is paid by employees (it is in my country).

I don't what your country is but in the US employers pay a payroll tax as well as Social Security and Medicaid or Medicare.

The payroll tax is substracted by the company but it comes of the employees salary.

Ultimately yes, if employers didn't have to pay these taxes they could pay employees more.

Another thing is that employers get tax breaks for offering employees fringe benefits such as health insurance but people who buy their own health insurance don't get a tax break. So there's no free market in health insurance, a free market would require everyone to get the same breaks.

In the US presidential elections that's one thing where I prefer McCain over Obama, McCain wants to give everyone the same tax breaks for insurance whereas Obama wants socialized medicine. Elsewhere though I can't support McCain, whereas with Obama there's hope McCain scares me with his chest thumping. But because Obama pushes for socialism, at least for health insurance, and because he sold out to big businesses like the telecoms that cooperated with the Bush admin to spy on people in the US I can't support him either. Luckily I don't have to vote for either one, instead I'm voting for Bob Barr.

Falcon

There is also a provision extending IRS powers extending its immunity from a variety of laws.

Read more here: http://blog.bobbarr2008.com/2008/10/03/bailout-bill-invades-your-wallet-and-your-privacy/

no environmental impact studies

If you don't care about environmental impacts then I bet coal and gas fired power plants can be built faster than nuclear power plants. These studies are done for a reason though.

None of which are good for base load. If wind turbines can survive in the open marketplace (i.e. no government handouts like Pickens wants) who am I to question the invisible hand. But I wouldn't put down a major bet they could compete against nukes if nukes were given a chance.

People use France as an example of how nuclear power can compeat but even there the government subsidies nuclear power. According to one person how much nuclear power in France is subsidized is a "state secrete". The French nuclear power giant Areva is government owned, and will be compeating with US companies for US subsidies. Areva also may have some problems.

I won't be voting for McCain. Like most elections I will be voting against the Democratic Socialist Party's candidate.

I'm not voting for McCain either, if Bob Barr is not on the ballot I don't know if I will vote for anyone for President, I've left blanks on ballots before. As for your vote, please vote for whom you want to be president and not against, I'm guessing Obama. I did that in 2000 when I picked Gross, er Gore. I didn't want a Gore president but a Bush president was worse to me. After that vote I swore I would not vote against someone again.

Falcon

Sure, the law might be smudged. Judges reinterpret laws all the time. However, most courts are unlikely to smudge a law like this in a politically unfavorable way when there is a plausible interpretation that won't generate mainstream criticism. The plausible interpretation in this case is that the law is designed to guarantee that third-party candidates have access to the ballots if they follow minimal procedure.

Take a look at the Texas Supreme Court opinion that, according to this press release, supposedly states that Texas law "does not allow political parties or candidates to ignore statutory deadlines." The case actually allowed a candidate to get on the ballot despite filing mistakes (the quote simply limits the scope of the opinion as opposed to carving out the meaning of the statute in stone as Mr. Barr seems to claim).

The courts have a bias in construing election law to favor allowing candidates onto the ballot (thus letting voters ultimately decide the issue of electability) instead of disallowing candidates from the ballot (thus effectively taking the final decision away from voters).

Ultimately, you don't need to apply strict rules of interpretation to guess which way the Texas Supreme Court is likely going to go with this case. You just need to know what interpretations of the statute are plausible and what is most likely important to the judges.

so why should McCain and Obama break the rules and get away with it? If they are late for the ballot, take them off. Rules are rules.

Barr was mistreated as not let into Saddleback Church to answer questions and he won't be part of the Presidential debates either. Also he might not be allowed on the ballot in some states even if he filed before the deadline.

Bob Barr's web site to let people know he is running under the Libertarian ticket after getting sick of what the Republicans had done under Bush. So he quit the Republicans and joined the Libertarians and are now calling both the Republicans and Democrats on their dirty tricks and rule breaking.

Although he might lose to the Mythbuster fans. His picture looks like a cross between Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage. :-)

Ah ... That's why I was going to vote for him. Couldn't quite put my finger on it.

I bet you a dollar that Colbert would beat Bob Barr by an order of magnitude!

Although he might lose to the Mythbuster fans. His picture looks like a cross between Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage. :-)

Also, for information about this specific case, see here:
http://campaign.blog.bobbarr2008.com/2008/09/18/bob-barr-rides-again-in-texas/

When we missed our deadline in West Virginia (a month before Republicans and Democrats were required to file I might add), we were forced off of the ballot. The law is clear and belonging to the Republican or Democrat party does not exempt you from its rule.

The Republicans tried to remove Barr's name from the PA ballots. Except that using a placeholder in Pennsylvania is legal, and not so much in Texas, if I understand correctly. You can get more details on Bob Barr's website. http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

I'm sure they'll weasel their way out of removing Obama and McCain from the TX ballot, but we'll see! In most court cases involving third parties, the judges side against them regardless of the law, so... good luck Bob Barr!

I wasn't going to continue this but I'll go ahead and answer some of your questions and that's it.

I'll bet you're registered with a political party, aren't you?

No I'm not. I can't register in my state as independent as there are two independent parties here, however the state does have "No Party Preference" which is how I am registered. I have voted for Democrat, independent (small "i" meaning independent from any party), Libertarian, Reform, and Republican Party candidates. Unlike when you try to intimate that I am "a sucker for groupthink" I look at each candidate's positions on the issues that matter to me and will vote for the one that comes closest to my positions no matter what party they a member of. Or let me put it another way, as I've said here on /. between Obama and McCain I'd vote for Obama if there were no other candidates. Substitute Clinton for Obama though and I'd vote for McCain. I respect McCain but he scares me, Clinton almost terrifies me though. Luckily I can, and will, vote for Bob Barr. And he used to scare me.

You have no idea how wasted that rebuttal was

It was your rebuttal that was incomprehensible. I unlike you believe anonymity is important to democracy whereas you believe government won't do anything bad if it knows what everybody's stances are. I provided examples of when government has abused power yet you still show no skepticism. And you were the one who accused me of not being skeptical.

Bye.

Falcon

ummmm....... NO I'll be voting for Bob Barr of the Libertarian Party for President, of course.

Actually Obama wants to cut taxes. Here's OnTheIssue's webpage on Obama's Tax Reform.

Having said that, I still can't support Obama. This election Bob Barr will more than likely get my vote.

Falcon

I am not knocking her, she is smart, touch and would have been a good choice.

As I said before, before Obama voted to give telcom businesses immunity, between Obama, McCain, and Clinton I'd vote for Obama but between McCain and Clinton I'd vote for McCain. I'm concerned about McCain but Clinton scares me. Now I'd vote, or not vote at all, for McCain over Obama. However this election I'm voting for Bob Barr.

Falcon

No, but he has way more experience in foreign relations, economic policies, national security, campaign finance reform, than Obama.

McCain has little to no experience with economic policy. Other than fighting and being a POW, which I highly respect him for, I don't see what foreign relations experience he has either. Maybe I'm missing something. For national security he wants a police state where government can spy on almost if not everyone. Lastly his campaign finance reform was unconstitutional, the US Supreme Court upheld parts but not all of the McCain-Feingold bill or Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act.

On Obama:

He turned his back on his supporters and flip-flopped by voting for a bill that granted telecommunications companies immunity.

Before the vote I supported Obama as the Democrat presidential candidate but not afterwards. His pick of Biden as his running mate makes it worse. I'm glad I can vote for Bob Barr.

Falcon

Personally I think that the government of the US has been overdoing it's way after 9/11

The US government has been overdoing it since before 911. For much of the US's history it has overdone it.

It's very easy for a state to grow into a police state. Just be aware about the laptop searches and a lot of other things that will affect many of us. It's called democracy

If it were a democracy people would have demanded these searches, but they didn't. Bush's admin unilaterally decided to have them.

So even if Obama has his faults he also have the advantage of being flexible and relatively unblemished by scandals. Experience is something you build by time, but by selecting Joe Biden he will have someone that's really experienced behind him.

As I said before, I originally supported Obama as the Democrat candidate for president. But his flip-flop on, and siding with big business, telco immunity I couldn't. Now that he's picked Biden as his VP I now have to oppose him. If I didn't have someone else to vote for I'd either not vote or vote for McCain. It's a good thing I can, and will, vote for Bob Barr.

As for Hillary Clinton, I suspect that she can do a good work in another prominent position, like secretary of state.

Hillary really scares me.

Falcon

I'm on record as hoping Obama might either reverse himself or satisfactorily explain himself on this, so I could again support him.

I supported Obama as the Democrat presidential candidate before his vote to give telcoms immunity but because of his vote I can't now. His picking Biden as his running mate makes it even worse. If I didn't have anyone else to vote for I'd vote for McCain. Luckily I do though, I'm voting for Bob Barr.

Falcon

There is no need to write anything in.

Just vote for whose on the ballot Bob Barr and Wayne Root.

> The buck will stop with me, because I will be the president.

So far Mr. (wannabe) president, I haven't been impressed with some of your decisions, including this one. You are not the savior you have been made out to be.

Just in case you think I am a McCain troll:
http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

There is an alternative:
You can vote with your conscience instead of throwing your vote away on the republicrats:
http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

You managed to talk trash like you know something about electric generation but you failed to mention how coal is somehow subsidized. You even managed to insert Bush and McCain in there.

Tax breaks are given for coal mining. And it's not just some environmental website saying that. Even the CATO Institute, a Libertarian think tank, says coal is subsidized. Bush has proposed subsidizing clean coal as well as nuclear power. McCain has pledged to provide $2billion for clean-coal.

I'm waiting for the Obama will save us all line. I actually think it is funny how people claim the army protects this

I find it funny, actually stupid, when people "ass"ume I support Obama. In fact as of now I'm voting for the Libertarian candidate Bob Barr and during the last presidential election I supported Michael Badnarik. Actually since 1988 when Ron Paul ran for president as a Libertarian Party candidate I voted for the LP candidate except in 2000. As far as I'm concerned both Democrats and Republicans are half right and half wrong. Democrats what to control businesses whereas Republicans want to control people's lives, especially Christian Conservatives. And both are parties to the War on Drugs.

The bottom line is that prices are the way they are based on a history that stretches far beyond your age.

And how do you know how old I am? You can read minds? I doubt it as you "ass"umed I supported Obama.

Nothing unfair is going on here.

It is unfair when you have to compeat with an industry that receives government subsidies but you don't, or receive more than you do. I won't go over the rest because you're so good at reading minds to think I don't support a free market.

Falcon

At least then we stand a fighting chance of not losing the rest of what once made this country great.

No, I'm voting for Bob Barr. Between McCain and Obama I'd vote for Obama, add Hillary to the ticket though and I'd vote for McCain if his running mate isn't too bad. If there wasn't another person running, but there is. McCain scares me but not as much as Hillary does.

We've got a lot of knuckleheads who still need it spelled out for them, thanks to our corporate media and Republican party that likes to manipulate the weakest minds with ugly racism and sexism.

On the other hand there's the Democratic Party, and the mass media that supports it, that wants to turn the country into a nanny state.

For those of us that DO live in the US, remember, nothing short of a landslide victory for Obama is going to keep the tin-pot dictators of the GOP out of the White House this time.

Yea, who needs the tin-pot, or socialist dictators, when you can have liberty instead by voting for the Libertarian candidate?

Falcon

I cannot vote for any candidate that voted in favor of this and now I'm not sure what to do.

Like you I used to support Obama. But now that he's sold out I can't support him now. Hde was supposed to be for change but all I see is the same old stuff.

I'm no longer voting for the lesser of two evils as they both are.

The last tyme I voted for the lesser of two evils the candidate I voted against had the election stolen so he still won, Bush in 2000. This year I'm voting for Bob Bar.

Falcon

Take a look at Bob Barr, the only candidate who opposed the bill. Vote with your principles this time around.

Barr is over 5% in 19 states, according to Zogby. His numbers are far higher than Nader's this time around: http://blog.bobbarr2008.com/2008/07/09/good-polling-numbers/ And here's a clickable map: http://www.zogby.com/50state/

If you are able to remove your party blinders--I know it's difficult--, please consider Bob Barr. He's in this to win.

Here's his press release from Thursday - Bob Barr Urges Congress: No Surveillance of Americans Without Fourth Amendment Protections