Domain: csdassn.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to csdassn.org.
Comments · 16
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Re:It could be legitimate
On the developer front:
If you have a lot of database stuff, Visual Studio can be much cheaper to develop for, so long as you ignore Microsoft's Architectural Group. For me, moving to Linux isn't just about saving money, really, its to break free from the corporate brain cramp that is Microsoft Architectural guidelines. Visual Studio and C# are great tools, but, if you have to use evaporate 2x as productive multiplier to do 10x as much stupid stuff, there's hardly a savings.
On the office front:
OpenOffice's spreadsheet is not even close to Office 2007 Excel. We developers can say Open Office spreadsheet is good enough, but telling that to someone who lives and breaths Excel is only for laughs.
However people that use their spreadsheets for statistics will tell you that using Excel for you calculation is about as productive as using substituting rand() for your equations.
Here is one of several papers about the fact that Microsoft has no interest in fixing the broken nature of excel for statistical work.
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Re:FUD from SAS
I guess nobody told her about how proprietary Excel is inferior to libre Gnumeric in having quite a few errors in its statistical functions and how when apprised of errors the Gnumeric folks fixed them quickly while the Excel folks either never fixed them, did it slowly, or introduced new errors? See the report by Drexel University statistician B. D. McCullough.
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Re:I might respect Microsoft
gnumeric - great at what it does, but rather featureless.
I think "great at what it does" is the very definition of good software. Throwing in extra features before you've mastered the fundamentals is a problem, see?
Gnumeric (unlike Excel) actually gets its numbers right. -
Name those 'certain functions'
Name those 'certain functions' that prevent switching. C'mon. I dare you.
Still quiet, eh? Thought so.
Perhaps you meant the statistical functions in Excel which are broken (warning for PDF) and MS has refused to fix, going on quite a few years now. You can't be serious about Visual Basic macros. MS is phasing them out so that's not a reason to hang back on last decade's technology either.
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Still don't use Excel. It's broken. Here is proof.
It's the color of broken statistical routines.
Although some clueless idiots marked me as flamebait, I would suggest to use for example Gnumeric instead of Excel. Excel is broken, it won't be fixed, get over it.
Slashdot - marking people as flamebait for telling the truth.
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Re:We need to get hardware going autmagically
You choose the one function it does not support, and ignore the huge number of unique features. You also ignore the fact that Excel is not accurate and Gnumeric is accurate.
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Re:How can we take this seriously...It is possible to open a delimited text file into cells in OOo Calc. I've done it before, but can't tell you how right now, because I'm at work where I don't have OOo available. What I haven't been able to do is copy and paste delimited text into cells from the clipboard, this is indeed aggravating.
On another note, you might not want to do too much statistical analysis in MS Excel. (Maybe not in OOo calc either) http://www.practicalstats.com/Pages/excelstats.ht
m l/ http://www.csdassn.org/software_reports/gnumeric.p df/ http://www.daheiser.info/excel/frontpage.html/ -
More evidence of excel errorsI assume I was modded troll by someone who didn't realize something from Redmond can contain mistakes. F/OSS also has errors, but one hopes they can get fixed. Which is what the first link said--Gnumeric replicated errors of Excel and, when statisticians complained, Gnumeric got fixed & Excel didn't.
For those interested in Excel errors, here are other sources:- Problems with Using Microsoft Excel for Statistics
- Fixing Statistical Errors in Spreadsheet Software: The Cases of Gnumeric and Excel
- Using Excel for Data Analysis
- Statistical Flaws in Excel
- On the Accuracy of Statistical Distributions in Microsoft Excel 97
- On the Reliability of Microsoft Excel XP for Statistical Purposes
- Use of Excel for Statistical Analysis
- Reliability of Statistical Procedures in Excel
- Association of Statistics Specialists Using Microsoft Excel
- Statistical Analysis Using Microsoft Excel
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Excel?!Excel is a horrible spreadsheet package. One of the things that makes it horrible is that Excel miscalculates. Gnumeric is, by far, the best spreadsheet software I've used. The quick-and-dirty graphing take getting used to & Excel might be better for that (from a usability standpoint), but I take most of my data into third-party graphing software anyway. I agree that OO.o calc leaves a bit to be desired, but have no idea what you mean by:
The OpenOffice version of the first doesn't scale near to where I need it
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If by "better" you mean "more wrong"
As a hardcore spreadsheet user
You should be using Gnumeric.excell handles curve fits much better than open office,
Here, I assume you mean "easier."and it statisical anaylis of data is much better also.
Please see these reports on unfixed bugs in Excel. I've seen similar documents (which compare to other commercial software, such as Origin, Kaleidagraph, Profit, etc.) Hardcore spreadsheet users have zero tolerance for error & many consciously avoid excel. -
Defects in software, use, or both?
For the software errors, do they mean the problems listed here?
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I'd be happier if...
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Re:Which hat am I wearing?
Furthermore, Excel (every scientists best friend), is still far and away the best spreadsheet application
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Re:appleworksahmen, my father is a statistician of 20+ years and had the same problem. but open office on linux isn't much better so i can't really give him a better suggestion.
Gnumeric is better. As a statistician, he should be avoiding Excel anyway due to its known innacuracies in calculations. Gnumeric is better on that front, too.
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Actually, Gnumeric *is* much betterAnother option for spreadsheets on *BSD, besides Gnumeric, would be OpenOffice.org Calc.
But Gnumeric is a very good choice. Here is a detailed write up of Gnumeric. The Computational Statistics & Data Analysis Statistical Software Newsletter has a report reviewing Gnumeric vs MS-Excel titled Fixing Statistical Errors in Spreadsheet Software: The Cases of Gnumeric and Excel (Warning for PDF) Regardless, of which spreadsheet you use, it's worth a read. Some excerpts:
When apprised of the errors in v1.0.4, the developers of Gnumeric indicated that they would try to fix the errors. Indeed, Gnumeric v1.1.2 has largely fixed the flaws, while Microsoft has not fixed its errors through many successive versions.
So, actually, Gnumeric *is* currently much better than MS-Excel. At least if the metrics are that it's statistical functions are more accurate and that bugs get fixed faster. I'd speculate that once Quattro was killed off, MS coasted on development of MS-Excel like it has done with MSIE after killing Netscape. Anyway... ...
Persons who desire to use a spreadsheet package to perfome statistical analyses are advised to use Gnumeric rather than Excel -
Re:Why would this lure them away?
Using Excel for school level science may be acceptable but as the UK NPL and others have found, Excel is the one that is not up to par, Gnumeric is greatly superior and scientists should not blindly trust the software they use anyway - especially when the only way to verify it's reliability is to treat it to empirical scientific investigation itself, amusing though that may be.