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PC's were NOT a hubyist market in 1984. Actually, there were more homes with PCs in '84 than homes with cell phones

But Apple and Microsoft had already released several products by 1984. Look at 1980 when the companies began production. Secondly in 1984 a mobile phone required a 7 Kg battery just to operate for 1 day.

Lowest mac is $845 for students

Conditions attached, doesn't count.

Lets do a real comparison. Lets use retail prices, so anyone can buy. I'm not a student and haven't been one in over 5 years. Also Apple do not provide those deals in Australia so lets use the prices everyone has to.

Lowest end macbook 13" A$1565.

Lowest end Dell 13" vostro A$1099 Pretty much the same spec except the Dell has a NBD onsite warranty.

Lowest end Macbook Pro 15" A$2641.

Dell Vostro 1530 A$1530 when configured with a higher res screen and 2.53 Proc. I configured the Dell to have a similar spec to the macbook except the Dell had a 7.2K RPM HDD compared to the Macbooks 5.4K RPM and the Dell also had an NBD onsite warranty.

Do some research before shooting your mouth off fanboy, I'm sick of doing these posts. Mac's are and always have been significantly more expensive then other laptops. This should readily be apparent now Apple are using the same off the shelf components as all other manufacturers.

You haven't provided a single link to corroborate your conjecture let alone enough to debunk the evidence I've presented. Also posting AC is not good form Sandbags (you used all the same spelling and grammar mistakes as well as the same flawed arguments, it's not that hard to tell).

PC's were NOT a hubyist market in 1984. Actually, there were more homes with PCs in '84 than homes with cell phones

But Apple and Microsoft had already released several products by 1984. Look at 1980 when the companies began production. Secondly in 1984 a mobile phone required a 7 Kg battery just to operate for 1 day.

Lowest mac is $845 for students

Conditions attached, doesn't count.

Lets do a real comparison. Lets use retail prices, so anyone can buy. I'm not a student and haven't been one in over 5 years. Also Apple do not provide those deals in Australia so lets use the prices everyone has to.

Lowest end macbook 13" A$1565.

Lowest end Dell 13" vostro A$1099 Pretty much the same spec except the Dell has a NBD onsite warranty.

Lowest end Macbook Pro 15" A$2641.

Dell Vostro 1530 A$1530 when configured with a higher res screen and 2.53 Proc. I configured the Dell to have a similar spec to the macbook except the Dell had a 7.2K RPM HDD compared to the Macbooks 5.4K RPM and the Dell also had an NBD onsite warranty.

Do some research before shooting your mouth off fanboy, I'm sick of doing these posts. Mac's are and always have been significantly more expensive then other laptops. This should readily be apparent now Apple are using the same off the shelf components as all other manufacturers.

You haven't provided a single link to corroborate your conjecture let alone enough to debunk the evidence I've presented. Also posting AC is not good form Sandbags (you used all the same spelling and grammar mistakes as well as the same flawed arguments, it's not that hard to tell).

No, it's Dual quad-cores

Actually according to my link its 1 x 2.66 Intel Xeon processor for A$4,400, I'll assume the X series (Bloomfield IIRC) for arguments sake. I accept the fact that some PC manufacturers jack up prices for Australia but all the prices I've quoted with the exception of the HP are in AUD.

Apple is clearly more expensive then most other vendors. But this is moot point as I cant consider any Apple product as ready for business, this is my business position. Personally I'm a gamer so I build my own gaming PC's, no box manufacturer can provide me with the spec's I want in a gaming PC so I get the components from my local retailers. Mac's dont work for me in personal life either mainly due to the fact that I dont get the same performance out of them, not just in terms of raw number crunching but also in versatility and functionality. Mac OS X is very limited (granted, this is by design) and I have complex set-ups on all of my home PC's. I will still by my personal laptops from Dell's business lines because I can customise them, I get all of the OS and driver media (hard to get from a vendor these days), 7200 RPM hard disks, 3 yr warranty by default and the fact that the price point matches the performance I expect (Latitudes are more expensive then Inspirons, XPS's are just crap).

I don't care so much about how the outside of the case looks, I care about getting value and Mac's don't deliver extra value for the extra cost, the Dell 14" Latitude E6400 I'd spec up for myself will cost the same as a 15" macbook but it would have more RAM and a 7200 RPM HDD. But really I have an 3 yr old plastic Benq that's survivable enough, been dropped off a desk twice, survived a TOD to Cambodia last year and still chugging along.

I don't support desktop end user crap, I support servers and datacenters and swtiches and routers and things, which to a degree are very different animals.

I agree, completely different beasts, but when you work for a small company, the three roles (Desktop support, Server administration and supply management) are often put into one position. Doing all three tends to give a bit of perspective in my humble opinion.

This argument goes from "silly" to utterly moot, as if you price a Dell or HP workstation (not "home computer", but under their SMB workstation sections) and go part-for-part, the Dell/HP easily comes out at hundreds more than a Mac Pro.

The thing is that you have to compare Apple to Dells consumer line for just one reason, NBD (Next Business day). Apple support does not know what NBD is and no business I've ever worked with can afford to have a piece of equipment out of service for a week while the service centre buggers around (I've had the pleasure of dealing with Apple warranty repair). Dells SMB/Enterprise line costs more because if there is any problem it gets fixed within 24 hours.

But because you are still wrong I'll run with it.
Mac Pro Cost: A$4404
Xeon 2.66, 3 GB DDR3 1033, Geforce GT 120, 640 GB HDD. No monitor, 1 year limited warranty.

Dell Precision T5300
Initially: A$2961, fully speced: A$3465.
Xeon 2.66, 3 GB DDR3 1033, Quadro FX 580, 745 GB HDD. 19" monitor, 3 year NBD.

Both machines have late model Nehelem cores and the same ram but not only is the Dell a full A$1000 cheaper it has a superior video card (GT is the NVidia gaming line, a rebadged 9600 IRC) and more HDD space as well as the all important 3 year NBD warranty (I'll ignore the monitor because Dell's 19"s are crap, get Samsung's). Not only this but I don't need to buy a Windows license to run ArcGIS, Dell tests Linux drivers on the Precisions and I have enough cash left over to buy a nice entry level Vostro for the Accountant or secretary as well as the piece of mind that comes with NBD, if anything, anything at all goes wrong with the Precision I know that Dell will fix it in 24 hours.

Sorry but youre dead wrong on both points
1. Even the MacPro is a home machine.
2. A high end Dell costs more then a MacPro.

I already did a quick comparison for a "Mac Tax" article and it didn't come out well for the Apple. It was more on the Mac Mini because integrated monitors are something I would avoid like the plague, but it was still "Apple versus other brands".

Still rings true, a Macbook 13" is A$2500 while a competing Asus with twice the amount of Ram, a newer Processor and better video card is A$2275. Add to that that the Mac is in Sydney (store pays less freight) and the Asus is in Perth (store pays more for freight) and the gap widens. Comparing the cheapest Macbook to the most expensive Dell Vostro, the Mac is A$1619 and the Vostro is A$1299 and the Vostro has a larger HDD, 3x the amount of RAM, dedicated video while the mac has a slightly faster processor (.1 GHz).

Now moving up to the Mac book Pro, the MBP is A$3150 for the cheapest model while an Asus is A$2199 with a larger HDD and twice the RAM. meanwhile the Dell Vostro with similar spec's comes out to A$1400 with an older graphics card or even the Dell Latitude comes to A$2900, that's with a NVidia Quadro card and 3 year warranty (the only laptop i've mentioned to have either of these two components).

So realistically there is a Minimum saving of A$250 no matter which way you put it. Personally I don't consider the Macbook Pro and Dell Latitude series to be in the same league as the MBP is a consumer machine and the Latitudes are aimed at businesses.

Now to the manufacturing, I find it ironic that Apple and Dell use the same off the shelf components and the same manufacturer Foxconn, which are renown for their crappy construction. But I'm sure a fanboy will find a way to twist this into apples favour or just flat out complain about the lack of aesthetics (which will be trumped by price for the overwhelming majority of people) but I believe in giving credit where credit is due, the Apple fanboys are nothing if not creative and Apple itself boasts the worlds greatest marketing/hype machine.

I already did a quick comparison for a "Mac Tax" article and it didn't come out well for the Apple. It was more on the Mac Mini because integrated monitors are something I would avoid like the plague, but it was still "Apple versus other brands".

Still rings true, a Macbook 13" is A$2500 while a competing Asus with twice the amount of Ram, a newer Processor and better video card is A$2275. Add to that that the Mac is in Sydney (store pays less freight) and the Asus is in Perth (store pays more for freight) and the gap widens. Comparing the cheapest Macbook to the most expensive Dell Vostro, the Mac is A$1619 and the Vostro is A$1299 and the Vostro has a larger HDD, 3x the amount of RAM, dedicated video while the mac has a slightly faster processor (.1 GHz).

Now moving up to the Mac book Pro, the MBP is A$3150 for the cheapest model while an Asus is A$2199 with a larger HDD and twice the RAM. meanwhile the Dell Vostro with similar spec's comes out to A$1400 with an older graphics card or even the Dell Latitude comes to A$2900, that's with a NVidia Quadro card and 3 year warranty (the only laptop i've mentioned to have either of these two components).

So realistically there is a Minimum saving of A$250 no matter which way you put it. Personally I don't consider the Macbook Pro and Dell Latitude series to be in the same league as the MBP is a consumer machine and the Latitudes are aimed at businesses.

Now to the manufacturing, I find it ironic that Apple and Dell use the same off the shelf components and the same manufacturer Foxconn, which are renown for their crappy construction. But I'm sure a fanboy will find a way to twist this into apples favour or just flat out complain about the lack of aesthetics (which will be trumped by price for the overwhelming majority of people) but I believe in giving credit where credit is due, the Apple fanboys are nothing if not creative and Apple itself boasts the worlds greatest marketing/hype machine.

I already did a quick comparison for a "Mac Tax" article and it didn't come out well for the Apple. It was more on the Mac Mini because integrated monitors are something I would avoid like the plague, but it was still "Apple versus other brands".

Still rings true, a Macbook 13" is A$2500 while a competing Asus with twice the amount of Ram, a newer Processor and better video card is A$2275. Add to that that the Mac is in Sydney (store pays less freight) and the Asus is in Perth (store pays more for freight) and the gap widens. Comparing the cheapest Macbook to the most expensive Dell Vostro, the Mac is A$1619 and the Vostro is A$1299 and the Vostro has a larger HDD, 3x the amount of RAM, dedicated video while the mac has a slightly faster processor (.1 GHz).

Now moving up to the Mac book Pro, the MBP is A$3150 for the cheapest model while an Asus is A$2199 with a larger HDD and twice the RAM. meanwhile the Dell Vostro with similar spec's comes out to A$1400 with an older graphics card or even the Dell Latitude comes to A$2900, that's with a NVidia Quadro card and 3 year warranty (the only laptop i've mentioned to have either of these two components).

So realistically there is a Minimum saving of A$250 no matter which way you put it. Personally I don't consider the Macbook Pro and Dell Latitude series to be in the same league as the MBP is a consumer machine and the Latitudes are aimed at businesses.

Now to the manufacturing, I find it ironic that Apple and Dell use the same off the shelf components and the same manufacturer Foxconn, which are renown for their crappy construction. But I'm sure a fanboy will find a way to twist this into apples favour or just flat out complain about the lack of aesthetics (which will be trumped by price for the overwhelming majority of people) but I believe in giving credit where credit is due, the Apple fanboys are nothing if not creative and Apple itself boasts the worlds greatest marketing/hype machine.