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Psystar Antitrust Claim Against Apple Dismissed
CNet has a report that a federal judge has dismissed Psystar's antitrust suit against Apple. Observers had said that the counter-suit embodied the Mac clone-maker's best chance of prevailing and staying in business. We've been following Psystar and the dueling lawsuits since the beginning.
then no one could
This is probably the proper legal ruling.
Though I disagree with Apple profitting off OSS which they did not initially create. They might as well be Linspire, in that regard.
Enlightenment is the elimination of that which is unnecessary.
You see, whether or not you agree or disagree with the legal standing of this EULA, or that EULA... whether or not you have a position on all this stuff, whether or not you agree that the law needs to be codified more properly for modern times, changed to fit the needs of the public... whatever you think there are just simply weaker cases which need to be tested first.
These guys marched straight into the castle stronghold without a hope in hell, and pissed on the kings chips.
We all stood back watching, saying to ourselves... well, this won't go anywhere. This was stupid. These guys are going to get slaughtered.
And lo! It was stupid, it didn't go anywhere, and they just got it handed to them.
Except perhaps bad timing. Its probably not the best time to start a new business or look for employment.
Re:If these guys couldn't bounce back
- Raynet --> .
I hope they find an angle that works.
Really it is amazing how people will come out of the woodwork to support Apple in this. Sorry, I own multiple Apple products but I do not see how in the hell it is justified they can tell me or anyone else how to use their product once I buy it. This would be akin to Microsoft having said Windows only on Intel, using another processor violates the EULA. How far would have that gone?
Apple isn't denying Pystar business by suing them on grounds of copyright violation, they are denying you the right to purchase hardware supported by another vendor to run an operating system of your choosing. If other companies could produce configurations they could legally back as running OS X it would give some of us the machines we can't get from Apple.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I just moved from OSX to Ubuntu a couple of weeks ago.
Benefits:
Downsides:
Poor attempt at flamebait tbh.
which is totally what she said
You do realize that OS X has fancy multiple desktops, free updates, and a built in package manager?(Spaces, Software Update, APT GET or my favorite the Trash Can.)
Before any one tries to refute the free updates, security fixes and other obvious updates(Web Browser, Codecs) come free from software update. New paid releases of OS X really only include fancy new features that people can live with out.
This would be akin to Microsoft having said Windows only on Intel, using another processor violates the EULA
Except that Microsoft does say that with the Xbox and Xbox 360. They have 2 different platforms with 2 different lisencing strategies for their hardware. Windows is lisenced to anyone and everyone for an exorbinant fee, while the Xbox OS is not lisenced to anyone and used only for running hardware assembled and sold by Microsoft. Apple doesn't have any obligation to market it's computer OS the same way that MS does, and unless you have a problem with MS, Sony, or Nintendo marketing their OS the same way Apple does I fail to see validity of the "Apple is the next MS" argument you are using here unless you plan to apply it to the other game station manufacturers as well.
Your whole second paragraph is self contradictory. Apple is suing Pystar for selling hardware with a "Hacked version of Apples OS" they are not suing Pystar for the computers they've sold with windows or linux installed, only those with OS X. If you want to go take the open source compnents of Apple's OS and recreate the closed source code yourself, and then sell computers with it you are free to do so. However, you'll quickly find that even with mooching Apple contributions to open source you won't be able to maintain profitability sell this OS for the same price Apple does their updates. They are a way to generate some income off of major OS updates from people that have already purchased Apple hardware. They are not sold at a profit by themselves, so Apple is free to restrict the sales to whomever they want in the EULA.
Would I like cheeper Mac's, of course, but that doesn't mean I advocate hamstringing their ability to decide the direction of their own products.
Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
I just moved from OSX to Ubuntu a couple of weeks ago.
Benefits:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't multiple desktops exactly what spaces is for?
http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
Possibly, but I feel the need to pay to find out. My laptop came with OS 10.4
which is totally what she said
Your an idiot.
. I love the sound of burning women and screaming rubber....
Psystar is not modifying the OS. Check the details! They are not running a cracked or modified version of OSX on their systems. What they have done is created the EFI backbone so that will allow the OS will install run nativly on it. This is no different from when IBM made their machines, and people reverse-engineered the bios to make clones.
All apple has to get them on is that the OSX license stipulates that it MUST BE INSTALLED ON APPLE HARDWARE. This is EXACTLY the same if Microsoft turned around and said that windows can only be used on specific intel motherboard and cpu, and that only microsoft can decree what hardware is allowed to be used with it.
These guys are going to have a rough time of it, but I home that they succeed. Apple should not be the only hardware manufacturer allowed to run OS-X, no more than microsoft should be allowed to decree that windows is not allowed to run on AMD and Gigabyte.
We should be allowed a choice!
Security updates are free, but if I wanted fancy multiple desktops I'd have to pay to update to 10.5, and that doesn't sound very free to me. I was living okay without multiple desktops sure, but with Ubuntu I got them for free, and I am now in fact using them.
The OSX security updates also were usually quite tardy as Mr AC points out just above me. Took them months to get a patch out for that big DNS bug a few months ago for example.
Ubuntu has become a fairly polished OS. If I had an nVidia graphics card then it would be almost perfect on this laptop. Canonical have done an awesome job. Linux is pretty much ready for any n00b to come along and use it for everything but the latest commercial games (which is often the main problem with OSX too).
which is totally what she said
Apple's hardware is fairly priced, so even if you want to install Linux, you are no worse off than buying x other brand.
Go match a Dell to a Mac Pro, or a Sony Vaio laptop to a MacBook, you will see they are all competitive.
Well you can get all the sources here:
http://www.macosforge.org/
And especially zfs and launchd could be interesting to Linux and BSD. But then the Linux community suffers heavily from Not-Invented-Here syndrome.
There is quite a bit of GPL licensed software in Mac OS X. Your can download the sources for that part of OS X here:
http://www.macosforge.org/
The sources to the BSD part of Mac OS X is there as well. And some of Apples own developments on top (launchd - Apples answer to init, cron and inetd - for example). launchd is pretty cool btw.
Though I disagree with Apple profitting off OSS which they did not initially create. They might as well be Linspire, in that regard.
Well, if you're being intellectually consistent in your ethics, then you should be disgreeing with Red Hat, Canonical, TiVo, LinkSys, Microsoft (yes, Microsoft), Sun Microsystems, IBM, HP, and a bunch of other big-name industry companies.
All these companies -- and more -- have profitted (well, okay, Canonical hasn't made a dime, technically ;) from OSS which they did not initially create.
My blog
Man you are gonna get so hammered by the haters!
I want to shoot the messenger!
No, you're an idiot.
Just as a note, assuming your touchpad is a synaptics one, you should be able to get two-finger right click. I'm not sure exactly what the package name would be on ubuntu, but look for gsynaptics - it can change the settings for the touchpad w/o having to touch xorg.conf or restart X.
As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century,free flow of information is the only safeguard against...
doesnt negate the fact that its true. The only product Apple puts out right now thats not really that competitive is the Mini, but otherwise the rest of the line is very competitive. The difference is in buying a Mac you buy things that for some people they dont need or want. But then thats the Apple difference, you know your machine is going to be supported for years (Still running Tiger on 10 year old systems) when some Vista "Capable" models where barely that out of the gate.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
I already did a quick comparison for a "Mac Tax" article and it didn't come out well for the Apple. It was more on the Mac Mini because integrated monitors are something I would avoid like the plague, but it was still "Apple versus other brands".
Not that I've got anything specific against Apple - my wife's old iBook would be quite a nice laptop to work on, just as soon as I fix the backlight - but given the choice then I'd rather spec what I want at what ends up being a more reasonable price.
Whoa buddy, watch out - that is NOT what the Slashdot community needs to hear, and they will react negatively to your comments with unproven arguments.
I'll start them off:
Apple's Hardware fairly priced??? WHoa, I bought an Apple Mac LC and it cost me $2000 for a LOW END machine. Then I was always doing CMD-. to try to quit a frozen app. And that LC didn't even come with a 5.25 inch floppy drive!!!
I just built a PC with a $32 motherboard and a few other parts I had around the house... and it cost me $32! And that isn't including the mail-in rebate that I just submitted 27 weeks ago.
Plus, you have to be rich to own a Mac, like a BMW owner. And then there is Steve Jobs - I hate his sickly self all dressed in black. Give me Steve Balmer any day!
What everyone seems to be missing here is that it's not about whether Apple profits from FOSS or does good in the community, but it's using an illegal tying arragement on OSX. Does Apple have the right to tell me for what purpose I can and cannot use software that I purchase? What I got to the store and buy Clorox bleach, that bleach is mine and what I do with it is my business. It would have been nice to see a Dell or Eee out in time for the holidays running OSX.
An inventor is a man who asks 'Why?' of the universe and lets nothing stand between the answer and his mind.
These could be considered as a form of echo question. Consider the example:
"I ate an entire bowl of thumbtacks."
"You ate an entire bowl of thumbtacks?"
"Yes."
Here the repair that's typically assumed to be part of echo questions is the entire sentence (which would likely be seen a semantically aberrant). There's no structural change to the sentence with the question mark (modulo some theory about hidden movement which I don't feel like working out). You'd probably hear an intonational change in speech.
Linux is pretty much ready for any n00b to come along and use it for everything but the latest commercial games
Linux has made a *lot* of strides in the last few years, but it's still got a ways to go.
I've been running Kubuntu on a couple of machines, and am amazed at how usable it is. I'm planning on setting up my next workstation to dual-boot, because I will be able to do all of my non-specialized work on it and then boot into XP for things I can't run on Linux.
However, even running it on some spare machines has revealed that there is still often the need to do things like edit xorg.conf and manually specify what my monitor is capable of. Otherwise my choice is "slow open-source NVidia driver" versus "fast proprietary NVidia driver at 640x480 only". End users should *never* have to look up monitor specs to get a normal resolution. Especially on hardware like a GeForce 5200-based card connected to a ViewSonic CRT, both of which are hardly bleeding-edge.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Well, I just tried that package, did have to change xorg to even get the gsynaptics application to start unfortunately. Didn't see any options for the 2 finger right click, and it broke the 2 finger scroll functionality. Ubuntu has moved to some other configuration files for configuring input devices these days, and I do have the 2 finger click option in one of those, but it doesn't have any effect (while the scrolling option does, and I just use the keyboard for right clicking).
They'll probably get it right eventually. I'd still want to be able to use 2 finger click even if I no longer had a mac. My next machine is going to be back to nVidia graphics so if the Macs at the time I'm buying don't have nVidia graphics I'll probably just get a Dell again.
which is totally what she said
Because you don't buy the XBox OS but you DO buy the Apple Mac OS X OS.
You don't need a license to install and use software when it is required for the use of said materiel. So that's not the problem.
Apple could just not sell Mac OS X the same way as MS don't sell XBox OS. They don't. So live with the consequences.
They are competitive, at the beginning of their life cycle. Because of the way Apple updates its products, though, price competitiveness goes down throughout the cycle until the next refresh.
All this means is that yes, you should wait until the next refresh to buy a shiny new MB/MBP/MP.
So you can laugh all you want to...
It seems that's one thing the ATI proprietary driver does right* - it has its own application for changing resolution and configuring internal and external displays, and recognised my Dell flatpanel correctly.
*or wrong, as it would be much better if they could release it as a plugin for the built in Ubuntu resolution manager, rather than a separate application in the 'accessories' menu, which isn't very intuitive
which is totally what she said
"but if I wanted fancy multiple desktops I'd have to pay to update to 10.5, and that doesn't sound very free to me." Free multiple-desktop apps have been available for OS X for years. You are spreading BS. http://desktopmanager.berlios.de/
If Microsoft released Windows 7 and only allowed it to be installed and run on Microsoft branded machines, how long would that last? About ten seconds, yes? Then why the hell can Apple get away with it? Give them some competition. Maybe then we could have Macs that aren't overpriced, new hardware options, and case choices other than ugly grey and slightly rounded. Maybe then we'd have competition. You know, that thing our economy is based on.
n/t
you had me at #!
Sure, you can hack about any OS with extra apps, you can run compiz on Windows, you can change the theme in OSX, etc. I even had nice candy textured window frames on my Amiga 10 years ago (but it ran like ass with only 16MB of RAM).
I at least was referring to the built-in and supported OS features, not what you can do with 3rd party apps (though admittedly Linux distros are usually just a collection of 3rd party apps). OSX 10.4 does not have a built in multiple desktop system or update manager (yes, I had apt-get installed anyway, but I didn't have a repository browser)
which is totally what she said
Is that the issue around which the 'Vista Capable' scandal revolves - 3D accelerated interface - has been part of OS X since 2002...
you had me at #!
That is odd, in the last 3 versions of ubuntu I have not needed to touch my xorg. I always do a fresh install each version.
This is an nvidia 8800GTS.
Re: As much as I dislike Apple...?
-- I speak only for myself
Except that Spaces doesn't work very well. After some patching by Apple following initial release it works better than nothing, but not by a whole lot. For example, sometimes clicking on an app icon in the dock won't shift to the correct space, sometimes it will. Sometimes clicking on the icon in the dock will pull the app front, sometimes it won't. An alert dialog triggered by an app in a different space forces a change of space focus. Rather annoying if your are typing, especially if you have a laptop and use network volumes as OS X gradually realizes they aren't available any longer. Apple's preconfigured shortcuts don't always work (my dad's macbook for example only worked with the shortcuts to get to space 1, none of the others worked). For Apple, the company where things "just work", this is pretty crappy.
For all the flack X Windows gets the windowing solutions seem to have solved all of these sorts of problems oh, more than ten years ago -- I've never had them on linux which I've been using for about ten years now, whether in FWM, KDE or Gnome.
From the Holloween documents to shill trolls like you, M$ deserves to be disssolved for their illegal monopoly. M$ has hired two people to pose as casexy, macthorpe, willyhill, jwilcox154, keith russel, and many others in the troll zoo who sucks Ballmer's dick. It is M$ who also sent death threats to any who oppose M$ and Windoze rather than embrace GNU/Linux and reject non-free software. M$ also bullying others into conforming to using M$ exclusively.
The only thing M$ deserves after their track record and their actions today is for the governments of the world to totally dissolve M$ and GPL all code and specs then arrest Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Paul Allen, Jim Allchin, and any other executive(current and past), stock holders, and anyone else involved in the M$ monopoly.
--
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Friends do assist M$ addicted friends in commiting suicide.
About the only thing Ubuntu (for me anyway) never seems to get right is resolution. I don't know why. My older Samsung LCD is 1600x1200 and it seems like anything over 1280x1024 is an issue. If I install the binary nVidia drivers it comes with its own set of problems. I've been editing my x.org (and XF86) configs for a long time so it doesn't bother me. But yeah... it's a problem.
Thanks for fixing that. And yes, he is.
Does that mean that if I want to find out what airbags are like, Peugeot will come and install them in my 1995 model 306 GLX for free?
I mean, I guess I could get an open source car and build it for free in my garage and install my own airbags, but what if I don;t have the time or I like the convenience of having someone else do it for me. Will my mechanic install these airbags into my open source car for free if I don;t want to do it?
I agree, but it's somewhat off-topic ... and flamebait(I HATE ALL BIG BUSINESS!! oh well!). Ethically, I think Linspire is 'slightly' worse than Apple, which is why I mentioned them(they're also smaller). And I'm not sure if it's directed at me.... But I'm well aware of what a BSD license is. I don't take issue with that alone. It's the GPL(GNU) being married with BSD/Unix to produce the average Mac OS X desktop(the selling point) that I find unethical. Apple has substantial portions of software under GPL. If they stuck with a common license, either way, I'd have no argument.
GNU (is) NOT UNIX!
Enlightenment is the elimination of that which is unnecessary.
I just priced my new Dell Latitude E6400, 2.8 Ghz, 4GB RAM, etc. to a new MacBook Pro. Almost identical specs except for the graphics card because I couldn't tell what the Mac had in it. The Dell was cheaper by $500 and that's with a docking station to keep my dual monitors, 3 yrs. Pro-IT Support, and 3 years accidental damage coverage. I don't think that's very competitive at all.
Does that mean that if I want to find out what airbags are like, Peugeot will come and install them in my 1995 model 306 GLX for free?
It doesn't. It means that if you don't want airbags, don't pay for them. I didn't say that it is morally reprehensible for Apple to charge for upgrades. I just pointed out that since there is a free, legal and just as good alternative available (ie one that comes with airbags included, and will most likely give me free safety upgrades for at least the next couple of years) I have chosen that instead.
In this case the airbags are freely available on street corners to install yourself, at your own risk. I was going to stick with the same vehicle without upgrades until I bought a whole new vehicle, but I'm not going to say no to free products if they enhance the safety of my vehicle and are easily installed ;)
Yes, you can of course pay to have a mechanic install the airbags for you if you don't feel you have either the time or skills to do it yourself. Hell, I'd do it for you if you paid me enough, but I cba supporting them long term (again unless you paid me a lot, or you rent a car from my company and I can support you as part of my day job). Luckily for you there are other people who feel they need more money or who already do freelance airbag installation and support for a living.
Any more silly questions you would like me to answer, or perhaps some more metaphors you would like me to overextend?
which is totally what she said
No that works just fine, since your reasoning is well explained. The usual conclusion of "I don't want to pay for that" is "I should get it for free because I do not deem it to be worth paying for", which is obviously not the case for you.
(And in the case of Spaces, it's not worth paying for, for me, since I don't use it. I got 10.5 for other reasons).
There is also this web site:
http://developer.apple.com/opensource/
Apple may not always be timely, but they do eventually get it out. Remember Although there is GPL stuff in there, there is also BSD stuff in there. With a BSD license they aren't required to give back, but Apple does. If you complain about Apple being late with the source, remember that in this regards their first priority is being a profitable business and the being a good open source citizen.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Psystar is not modifying the OS. Check the details! They are not running a cracked or modified version of OSX on their systems.
SOURCE: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Psystar-Xserve-Apple,5734.html
There are no retail full versions of OSX. None. None at all.
/.
You get a full version of OSX when you buy a Mac. And you can then buy an upgrade version at retail when a new version comes out. Upgrade. The only version available in a retail box. The only one.
The retail version is an upgrade only.
Clear now?
It's not as if this hasn't been pointed out countless times before on
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Uhh my first flamebait. And I did not even meat to.
As I can see from other posts zfs has indeed an incompatible licence. But that is not Apples fault.
Only my little rant was about launchd - a replacement for init, cron and inetd which is
a 100% Apple development and lincenced under the Apache License, Version 2.0.
Beside: launchd is a user land application so it does not matter. So my little rant holds true.
Note that I have used Linux and configured three: init, cron and inetd and they are a pain to use compared with launchd. And in the case of init & /etc/init.d bloody slow.
Martin
For a user land application it makes not difference at all.
But everybody things I have started a zfs flame - which is file system driver and has indeed an incompatible license.
But then: the zfs license has been set by Sun.
My question on the OEM version restriction is:
What is the definition of the "computer with which it was sold"? Is it the case which the original electronics were mounted in and the sticker is attached to? Is it the mainboard? The HDD? Some other combination?
The reason why I wonder about this is that it may make upgrading your machine a EULA violation - say your mobo dies and is no longer produced and must be replaced. Does this end your license?
PCs are modular units, not monolithic (except maybe for laptops). Components can be swapped in and out over time, either to upgrade or simply to repair the hardware.
Technically the legalese stated you could only run it on Apple-branded computers.
I would love to see a company get into this and argue the definition of Apple Branded as opposed to the legality of the EULA. If you buy a bunch of cases of old mac's that died and put your own hardware in them does that count as Apple branded. Or even better if you went to http://missingbite.com/ and purchased official Apple stickers and slapped them on the box would that count as branded.
That's the lawsuit I'd like to see.
Don't anthropomorphize computers. They *hate* that.
Still rings true, a Macbook 13" is A$2500 while a competing Asus with twice the amount of Ram, a newer Processor and better video card is A$2275. Add to that that the Mac is in Sydney (store pays less freight) and the Asus is in Perth (store pays more for freight) and the gap widens. Comparing the cheapest Macbook to the most expensive Dell Vostro, the Mac is A$1619 and the Vostro is A$1299 and the Vostro has a larger HDD, 3x the amount of RAM, dedicated video while the mac has a slightly faster processor (.1 GHz).
Now moving up to the Mac book Pro, the MBP is A$3150 for the cheapest model while an Asus is A$2199 with a larger HDD and twice the RAM. meanwhile the Dell Vostro with similar spec's comes out to A$1400 with an older graphics card or even the Dell Latitude comes to A$2900, that's with a NVidia Quadro card and 3 year warranty (the only laptop i've mentioned to have either of these two components).
So realistically there is a Minimum saving of A$250 no matter which way you put it. Personally I don't consider the Macbook Pro and Dell Latitude series to be in the same league as the MBP is a consumer machine and the Latitudes are aimed at businesses.
Now to the manufacturing, I find it ironic that Apple and Dell use the same off the shelf components and the same manufacturer Foxconn, which are renown for their crappy construction. But I'm sure a fanboy will find a way to twist this into apples favour or just flat out complain about the lack of aesthetics (which will be trumped by price for the overwhelming majority of people) but I believe in giving credit where credit is due, the Apple fanboys are nothing if not creative and Apple itself boasts the worlds greatest marketing/hype machine.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Copyright, copyright, copyright, copyright.
It's the RIGHT to make COPIES.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Adding a question mark to any sentence makes it a question?
Answering a question with a question makes it an answer?