Domain: energytower.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to energytower.org.
Comments · 27
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Help Cut and Move Some Stone
If you feeling a bit out of shape and bored of sitting behind a desk, you can come and help me build some massive towers out of stone blocks. If the convection towers were built from stone, it will take some up-front human labor, but in the end you can say you put together part of a megawatt renewable power station that in the worst case will leave people wondering what we were up to a few centuries from now like we do about Stonehenge.
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Re:Dupe and duped.ouch
- If you have something specific that is incorrect in the calculations or economics, please inform me.
- The energytower.org project is not-for-profit and is about collecting ideas on a scalable and location independent renewable energy source, presented to draw positive input from others. All of the individual components of the system are in use commercially, but not in a complete system.
- Many engineers and physics experts have looked at the energytower idea. Negative critism from a
/. reader didn't RTFA isn't exactly "debunking" a system. - Slashdot is a slashvertisement for Linux and open source. If you want the $6.36 I have made from Google adsense, give me your pay-pal account and I will send it right along.
- Did you every see Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back?
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Re:Dupe and duped.ouch
- If you have something specific that is incorrect in the calculations or economics, please inform me.
- The energytower.org project is not-for-profit and is about collecting ideas on a scalable and location independent renewable energy source, presented to draw positive input from others. All of the individual components of the system are in use commercially, but not in a complete system.
- Many engineers and physics experts have looked at the energytower idea. Negative critism from a
/. reader didn't RTFA isn't exactly "debunking" a system. - Slashdot is a slashvertisement for Linux and open source. If you want the $6.36 I have made from Google adsense, give me your pay-pal account and I will send it right along.
- Did you every see Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back?
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Re:Biomass
There was about 25 years of research into algae done by the U.S. DOE, as well as some renewed interest from MIT. I put a page together with a drawing of the idea.
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Re:Compressed Air Storage
I did a drawing of the Compressed Air Wind Electrical Generation System idea.
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Algae-Biodiesel+CharcoalOne of the best ideas I have seen is algae for biodiesel with charcoal production from the waste. The charcoal holds the carbon for a long period and is at worst case neutral spread on agricultural land and has some potential to be beneficial.
There were a lot of studies on the idea in the '80's by the DOE, but it was shelved due to low oil prices at the time.
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Seawater Greenhouse
The Seawater Greenhouse is another idea in solar powered clean water supply. So is this.
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Re:Similar IdeasI agree and I don't think you are far off in your estimations.
I just think that the disussion of scaling Ethanol and BioDiesel production to meet current energy needs is one step ahead of the real problem. First, the agricultural and fuel transportation sector need to be moved away from using fossil fuels before Ethanol and BioDiesel will even lower total fossil fuel consumption.I wrote a bit about this.
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Similar IdeasThe article has some similar ideas to our project. A few comments on the article:
- The existing agricultural system is orientated towards edible food production. Growing, handling and storing crops for energy products is an entirely different industry that currently doesn't exist in North America. Using food production numbers for energy product potential isn't very accurate.
- If agricultural production of energy products had access to affordable and renewable energy, there is a lot more potential for increased production while improving the land as well as better use of by-products than is feasible with the current fossil fuel powered agricultural sector.
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Re:I'd sooner go with wind turbines...
Calculations for a moderate climate installation of a controlled wind/thermal storage system.
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The Real QuestionFirst, thanks to the
/. editors for accepting the submission, the increase in email inquiries and interest in the project since the story was posted have been phenomenal.The design methodology of the project has been to research the deficiencies in current energy sources and to attempt to design a system that overcomes these problems, but the project is still very much in the concept stage.
The real question is, "This is what they have so far, what enhancements to the design are needed to make this feasible?"
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Some Ideas on a Solution
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Off Topic, No GuiltI love love articles like this, submitted by the author as links to their own blog. I don't feel guilty about posting off-topic links to articles I wrote.
Some New Ideas in Indirect Solar Electrical Power Generation, Clean Water Capture and Seasonal Heat Storage
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Re:Mangling the Numbers on a Hydrogen Economy
The only scalable method of producing renewable and transportable energy products is from agriculturally produced renewable sources. The whole deal lies in removing the fossil fuel dependency in agriculture. Once that is done, renewable and carbon neutral fuels can be produced in the required scale to lower the mobile fossil fuel dependency.
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Re:A better approach
Improving the electrical grid is a good idea and for all of Canada and the northern US, more energy is used by an average family for home heating than personal transportation and home heating can be easily and relatively cheaply converted to electric (electric forced air, radiant heat, etc).
A indirect solar electrical system that is location independent and generating the electricity as close as possible to the market is a much more viable approach and decentrallization of the power generation and grid applies much of the same distributed ideas as the Internet to power generation from a military perspective. -
Ideas for Solar Hydrogen ProductionThis pilot project is being built in Regina, Canada and will use a Dry Fuel Reformation solar process to crack hydrogen from landfill methane.
This project is a new concept for indirect solar power generation system with a focus on on-farm electrical power generation and the system will store large amounts of thermal energy which could be used to create large methane bioreactors. Another idea is to reduce the fossil fuel inputs in agriculture by growing smaller plants that have a shorter growing season and can be more readily adapted to being farmed with a system that is completely electrically powered. Once the fossil fuel dependency is lowered in agriculture, clean energy products (ethanol, biodiesel, methane, hydrogen) can be produced on a large scale without the high fossil fuel input.It's still easier and more efficient to transport hydrogen with carbon as in ethanol. If ethanol or biodiesel can be produced with renewable energy, they are carbon neutral and much easier to handle than pure hydrogen.
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Ideas for Solar Hydrogen ProductionThis pilot project is being built in Regina, Canada and will use a Dry Fuel Reformation solar process to crack hydrogen from landfill methane.
This project is a new concept for indirect solar power generation system with a focus on on-farm electrical power generation and the system will store large amounts of thermal energy which could be used to create large methane bioreactors. Another idea is to reduce the fossil fuel inputs in agriculture by growing smaller plants that have a shorter growing season and can be more readily adapted to being farmed with a system that is completely electrically powered. Once the fossil fuel dependency is lowered in agriculture, clean energy products (ethanol, biodiesel, methane, hydrogen) can be produced on a large scale without the high fossil fuel input.It's still easier and more efficient to transport hydrogen with carbon as in ethanol. If ethanol or biodiesel can be produced with renewable energy, they are carbon neutral and much easier to handle than pure hydrogen.
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Ideas for Solar Hydrogen ProductionThis pilot project is being built in Regina, Canada and will use a Dry Fuel Reformation solar process to crack hydrogen from landfill methane.
This project is a new concept for indirect solar power generation system with a focus on on-farm electrical power generation and the system will store large amounts of thermal energy which could be used to create large methane bioreactors. Another idea is to reduce the fossil fuel inputs in agriculture by growing smaller plants that have a shorter growing season and can be more readily adapted to being farmed with a system that is completely electrically powered. Once the fossil fuel dependency is lowered in agriculture, clean energy products (ethanol, biodiesel, methane, hydrogen) can be produced on a large scale without the high fossil fuel input.It's still easier and more efficient to transport hydrogen with carbon as in ethanol. If ethanol or biodiesel can be produced with renewable energy, they are carbon neutral and much easier to handle than pure hydrogen.
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Ideas for Solar Hydrogen ProductionThis pilot project is being built in Regina, Canada and will use a Dry Fuel Reformation solar process to crack hydrogen from landfill methane.
This project is a new concept for indirect solar power generation system with a focus on on-farm electrical power generation and the system will store large amounts of thermal energy which could be used to create large methane bioreactors. Another idea is to reduce the fossil fuel inputs in agriculture by growing smaller plants that have a shorter growing season and can be more readily adapted to being farmed with a system that is completely electrically powered. Once the fossil fuel dependency is lowered in agriculture, clean energy products (ethanol, biodiesel, methane, hydrogen) can be produced on a large scale without the high fossil fuel input.It's still easier and more efficient to transport hydrogen with carbon as in ethanol. If ethanol or biodiesel can be produced with renewable energy, they are carbon neutral and much easier to handle than pure hydrogen.
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Re:I say nay! But I have solid reasons for it
Finally - if it can be built to a size for a single dwelling, is this something you are pursuing? Are you looking at building a "proof-of-concept", or do you know of others who are doing so?
A single dwelling sized system in existing urban areas is probably not feasible, but it would make sense in rural and remote areas. I think the medium to large agricultural operation would be the best initial market. The ammonia absorption system works well with agriculture and in Canada and many other places there already is an infrastructure and material handling experience in place in agriculture for NH3 (used as fertilizer).We are planning a POC based on the ammonia absorption idea and hopefully we can have that worked through in the next year.
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Re:I say nay! But I have solid reasons for itThanks for looking at the system, and you have some very good points.
Just for reference, the solar updraft tower you are talking about is an existing concept and there was a small prototype built in Spain in the 1980's. There is another large plant planned in Australia. Although a solar updraft tower is simple, the large land usage, limited night time power generation, the infrastructure cost of transporting the electricity and the extremely high tower requirements limit the potential usage.
I agree that the simpler the design the better for all of the reasons you state and many more, but there is nothing simple about constructing 1000 meter towers out in the desert and then building all of the infrastructure to transport the electricity to where it is needed.
The system I am proposing is intended to be scalable and adaptable to all power generation requirements and climates and could be used to generate electricity from geothermal sources and cold air in arctic regions, solar/geothermal/biomass in moderate climates and solar in hot dry climates. The intent of the absorption refrigeration system is to use solar energy to create a much wider temperature gradient (i.e. +30C air and -30C heat exchanger) than is possible with a non-active system and store the captured heat to be used to generate power when the ambient air temperature drops.
The intent of an adaptable design and a standard system beyond the engineering and construction benefits of standardization is to create the investor "warm fuzzy" and once a system is in operation, the same economic investment model can be used for other plants, regardless of location.
The ammonia absorption system in my design isn't much more complicated than an RV refrigerator or absorption heat pump and doesn't require any substantial operational resources. The fluid pumping systems are much less complicated than existing coal and natural gas power generation systems.
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Re:I say nay! But I have solid reasons for itThanks for looking at the system, and you have some very good points.
Just for reference, the solar updraft tower you are talking about is an existing concept and there was a small prototype built in Spain in the 1980's. There is another large plant planned in Australia. Although a solar updraft tower is simple, the large land usage, limited night time power generation, the infrastructure cost of transporting the electricity and the extremely high tower requirements limit the potential usage.
I agree that the simpler the design the better for all of the reasons you state and many more, but there is nothing simple about constructing 1000 meter towers out in the desert and then building all of the infrastructure to transport the electricity to where it is needed.
The system I am proposing is intended to be scalable and adaptable to all power generation requirements and climates and could be used to generate electricity from geothermal sources and cold air in arctic regions, solar/geothermal/biomass in moderate climates and solar in hot dry climates. The intent of the absorption refrigeration system is to use solar energy to create a much wider temperature gradient (i.e. +30C air and -30C heat exchanger) than is possible with a non-active system and store the captured heat to be used to generate power when the ambient air temperature drops.
The intent of an adaptable design and a standard system beyond the engineering and construction benefits of standardization is to create the investor "warm fuzzy" and once a system is in operation, the same economic investment model can be used for other plants, regardless of location.
The ammonia absorption system in my design isn't much more complicated than an RV refrigerator or absorption heat pump and doesn't require any substantial operational resources. The fluid pumping systems are much less complicated than existing coal and natural gas power generation systems.
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Re:I say nay! But I have solid reasons for itThanks for looking at the system, and you have some very good points.
Just for reference, the solar updraft tower you are talking about is an existing concept and there was a small prototype built in Spain in the 1980's. There is another large plant planned in Australia. Although a solar updraft tower is simple, the large land usage, limited night time power generation, the infrastructure cost of transporting the electricity and the extremely high tower requirements limit the potential usage.
I agree that the simpler the design the better for all of the reasons you state and many more, but there is nothing simple about constructing 1000 meter towers out in the desert and then building all of the infrastructure to transport the electricity to where it is needed.
The system I am proposing is intended to be scalable and adaptable to all power generation requirements and climates and could be used to generate electricity from geothermal sources and cold air in arctic regions, solar/geothermal/biomass in moderate climates and solar in hot dry climates. The intent of the absorption refrigeration system is to use solar energy to create a much wider temperature gradient (i.e. +30C air and -30C heat exchanger) than is possible with a non-active system and store the captured heat to be used to generate power when the ambient air temperature drops.
The intent of an adaptable design and a standard system beyond the engineering and construction benefits of standardization is to create the investor "warm fuzzy" and once a system is in operation, the same economic investment model can be used for other plants, regardless of location.
The ammonia absorption system in my design isn't much more complicated than an RV refrigerator or absorption heat pump and doesn't require any substantial operational resources. The fluid pumping systems are much less complicated than existing coal and natural gas power generation systems.
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New Indirect Solar Power Generation ConceptI have been working on a design for an indirect solar power generation system that can be cost effective, location independent and I believe can be built with a low enough capital investment to compete directly with fossil fuels.
The idea is to build a standard low gradient heat platform that can be optimized for a geographical location's specific climate and geothermal features. The specific adaptation for arid regions utilizing absorption refrigeration especially shows promise.
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New Indirect Solar Power Generation ConceptI have been working on a design for an indirect solar power generation system that can be cost effective, location independent and I believe can be built with a low enough capital investment to compete directly with fossil fuels.
The idea is to build a standard low gradient heat platform that can be optimized for a geographical location's specific climate and geothermal features. The specific adaptation for arid regions utilizing absorption refrigeration especially shows promise.
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A solution
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Renewable Idea, Open Project, No Angles