Domain: entropysite.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to entropysite.com.
Comments · 7
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Re:The problem with Derivatives
you refrain from pejoratives and hyperbole
Gee, thanks, "chump"!
:->I'm going to have a hard time translating something like Entropy into an equation...
The link I provided before does so, using the actual thermodynamic definitions of entropy. Here it is again (PDF paper it links to, costs money though). Even by a major overestimate of the amount of entropy in living things, the sun puts in over a trillion times more energy available to decrease entropy than all living things on Earth produce.
The main problem is that Entropy is not "disorder". The other problem is that entropy can and does decrease on Earth, all over the place... though the total entropy in the Universe does go up. If the naive understanding of entropy were correct, snowflakes couldn't form. Here's a discussion that addresses your 'broken glass' example pretty well, noting that "order" and "design" are two quite different things still. It also addresses something else you say:
I argue that what can't happen with an individual is impossible to take place within a population, because a population can always be split ad infinitum until it is a population of one.
You didn't cover semiconductors in your electrical engineering classes? They did in mine. Holes, doping, band gaps, etc. - such phenomena can't be observed in single atoms, only in collections thereof. (BTW, entirely unrelated aside: I once ran it through an anagram generator and discovered that "electrical engineering" could be rearranged to "rectilinear negligence".
:-> ) What about convection? How about dipolar bonding in water - of no import in an individual molecule, but leads to anomalously high surface tension in liquid water, and the paradoxical expansion of solid vs. liquid water at Earthly temperatures and pressures?Ponder for a moment how you'd measure the behavior of shear-thickening liquids in a single molecule. How would you make a quasicrystal out of one atom?
Early on, a blastula is composed of identical cells, but patterns of chemical reactions make "standing waves" around those cells, and start differentiation. You don't get that behavior from the individual cells - indeed, if you split those cells up, they form new blastulas, which then differentiate and develop. (One way identical twins are formed.)
Those are just the simplest examples I came up with off the top of my head. I'm going to ask a few buddies to come up with more examples of behavior seen only in populations, not individuals. It's actually a fun puzzle, thanks.
If there's a way to PM on
/. please send me (geotopia) your email and we can take this offline.Next to my name is a (slightly mangled) version of my email address. If you click on my nickname, my email's there, and you can find my home site with a "contact" page.
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Why does time get its own dimension?
What is time, anyway?
Traditionally, time has been associated with thermodynamics and the idea of entropy (energy unavailable to some system). Entropy is not disorder. Thanks to Aristotle, Leibniz, Boltzmann, Chaitin, etc., we know that causality, thermodynamics, and time are more related to each other than usually mentioned. Prigogine recently did more work with reversible-state reactions in statistical thermodynamics. As far as I can tell, the most that we know of 'time' is that action makes up the arrow of time. As entropy increases, the 'time' variable increases-- at least, locally. To know entropy, time, and the great arrow, we must know energy.
If 'no action' is an action then does something doing nothing age? As long as we see no universal time variable permeating the fabric of space, the idea of a "time dimension" is weak. I wonder what physics would look like when we give energy its own dimension. Remember, though we may know that the basis of energy is quanta via photons, we still do not know what the energy is. In the famous words of Feynman, "Nobody knows what energy is." Much like our state of affairs in psychology (which could be reformulated into developmental coping tools) and neuroscience re: 'memory'. -
Re:Perspectives
Basically sound about evolution, but in what way are machinery errors caused by entropy? It's a measure of energy spreading out or dispersing, if it is not hindered: just see the Wikipedia discussion page, and beware of the odd editor trying to reintroduce the old canard that it's about "disorder" or "chaos" - that was a 19th century misunderstanding of how energy works. See "Disorder -- A Cracked Crutch..." at http://www.entropysite.com/cracked_crutch.html , and "Entropy Is Simple, Qualitatively" at http://www.entropysite.com/entropy_is_simple/inde
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Re:Perspectives
Basically sound about evolution, but in what way are machinery errors caused by entropy? It's a measure of energy spreading out or dispersing, if it is not hindered: just see the Wikipedia discussion page, and beware of the odd editor trying to reintroduce the old canard that it's about "disorder" or "chaos" - that was a 19th century misunderstanding of how energy works. See "Disorder -- A Cracked Crutch..." at http://www.entropysite.com/cracked_crutch.html , and "Entropy Is Simple, Qualitatively" at http://www.entropysite.com/entropy_is_simple/inde
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Re:statistical black hole
Entropy does not mean amount of chaos. Entropy can increase while the amount of disorder decreases (e.g. crystal forming). Here is a link to more information.
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Re:Attack the messenger (please)The Principle of Conservation of Energy(Also known by some as the First Law of Thermodynamics): "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed".
Taking that Law, we can now turn to the most famous equation in the world, E=MC^2. This states that Energy is equals to Matter, times the square of a Constant. Energy and Matter are interchangable: Energy can turn into Matter, Matter can turn into Energy. When combined with the Principle of Conservation of Energy, you get this statement:
"Energy AND Matter can neither be created nor destroyed."
Now that we have established that, we can turn to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which states:
"All work processes tend towards a greater entropy (disorder/lower energy density) over time."
The universe is getting more disordered and more simplified, as dictated by the Second Law of Thermodynamics. However, the theory of Evolution has the basic principle that everything is getting more organized and more complex.
My arguments summarized:
1. The Big Bang cannot be true as it contradicts the First Law of Thermodynamics.
2. Evolution cannot be true as it contradicts the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
My opinion on the universe:
1. The universe started as a complex and orderly living entity, which, over time, began to expand. As it aged, it began to expand, and the life began to DEVOLVE until it reached our current state, humans. You can even witness this devolving process. Think. 10 or so years ago, we didn't have so many hurricanes, earthquakes, or other devastating natural disasters. People are becoming stupider by the day.
2. As for where the entire mass of atoms came from, either there is a God(which is possible), or the universe has always existed, and there in some incomprehensible way, time started a billion years back, and the universe came into existence with time. And remember this. There might be something larger than a universe...
References:
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/6e.
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http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/thermo1f .html
http://www.taftan.com/thermodynamics/FIRST.HTM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermod ynamics
http://www.entropysite.com/students_approach.html
http://www.secondlaw.com/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/370.asp
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-thermod ynamics.html
This is what I understand the laws to mean...if I'm wrong, by all means, correct me...
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"The Day After Tomorrow"Any resemblence between TDAT and our planet is that the place names is/are similar and they speak roughly the same language. The lack of the same physical laws (i.e., 2nd law of thermo) differentiates their reality from ours.
See also other alternate reality movies, where our laws of space and time simply do not apply.