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No one is forcing you to provide video in Theora. The idea is that you provide Theora as a fallback, the last resort. It doesn't matter if it's out dated or if H.264 is better quality. It's suppose to be the last resort. The video tag gives you the ability to specify different videos in case the browser can't load the first one you provided.

H.264 is CPU intensive compared to Theora. Theora doesn't need hardware support because it's a simple codec which can be run in software even on mobile devices. Google is already sponsoring an effort to get the Theora codec running on ARM which makes this more practical. Theora even runs on IE via a java applet so it's widely supported compared to H.264.

Theora could really take off if a Flash-based decoder could be made for it, so that no codec download was required, and any video site could use it transparently. But how much of the video decoding for Youtube is actually written in Flash, and how much is done by a H264 accelerator
  I'm fairly sure the video playback youtube uses is built into the flash vm. The custom stuff written in actionscript (flash's scripting language) just the interface controls etc.

Afaict actionscript is pretty slow as a programming language so writing a full video codec in it's probablly not very pracical.

Java OTOH is capable of doing a full decoder and one is indeed availible from http://www.flumotion.net/cortado/ for an example of it in use see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tupolev_Tu-95.ogg .

Pair this with Cortado, instant flash killer!

I played around with Cortado a few years ago, it was impressive at the time. Java applets in the browser is a much more appealing alternative to me than flash. With the option of having embedded video with a fall back to the Java applet in the future, this is a win all around.

The Wikipedia page tells me somebody is already doing this.

I agree that every online service should be using Cortado the way Theorasea does.

Cortado is Java, admittedly, but at least Java's got several competing implementations.

Hopefully, the <video> tag will make all this obsolete in a few years.

Isn't there already a gpl'd alternative to .flv? What advantages are there in sun's offering? And given that the patent fees on .mp4 are so low, is that really needed?

There is one nice Free Software alternative to Flash as a streaming video embedded applet, it's cortado.

The problem is that it lacks a little more work to be always stable and some more to get other codecs like speex incorporated. But the developper is gone and nothing has been developped since 2006. So it could be a nice project to pick up for someone with knowledge in Java, who want to do some usefull work for the Free Software users instead of only relying on Free alternative to the Flash player wich won't solve the main problem, the format. Right now, it's even worse, all linux distros rely on flash for their video solution, which is a pity.

Close to the point, with the way Java is designed, you don't have this kind security issue, since you cant embed the player and stream videos from another domain.

I definitely can't tell the difference personally, but I still archive in FLAC. Why? Transcoding without artifacts. I play local in native FLAC, convert to relatively low bitrate mp3 for travel (enough ambient noise that storage density outweighs fidelity), stream in vorbis so that I can decode in-browser with Cortado.

. . . flash 7 . . .

Bleh. Now that Java will soon be freed, I'd rather see something akin to Cortado than the continued reliance on proprietary garbage.

I've given this a bit of thought over the past year or so. The best alternative is probably Ogg/Theora/Vorbis, so your main problem is simply to boost the accessibility of those codecs and make them popular to use. There are a few usable Theora encoders for *nix and Windows, but I don't know of a real (legal; ffmpeg2theora, you're out) drag-and-drop converter.

Either way, the demand simply isn't there. This could be fixed by creating a site like YouTube called OggTube or something, and using the Cortado plugin, but good luck with the bandwidth bills. Plus, YouTube has essentially cornered the market on user-created video. Another alternative is to create a site whose sole job it is to amass video from across the web and convert it to Theora for people to download (like a FilePlanet clone, but doing your own conversions). Again, the bandwidth and labor would be killer, unless you used BitTorrent.

I think the real winning situation would be to hit it at a higher level, by trying to convince a major producer of online video (EA perhaps) to offer their stuff in Theora alongside the standard offerings. Or by getting Adobe to include Theora in Flash.

That said, if anyone wants to help me out with the Theora conversion/BitTorrent site, let me know.

To whom it may concern:


I am interested in politics - especially on the European level, because political decisions heavily influence the way we, citizens of the EU states, live. As have learnt through Slashdot, a news website [1], the Council of the EU has decided to offer a streaming media service.

In my opinion, this is a very interesting service with great potential to provide citizens with more information to actual issues.

Unfortunately, the stream is only avaiable in a proprietary format named Windows Media Video (WMV). In your frequently asked questions [2] you state that "[the] live streaming media service [...] supports [only] Internet Explorer 5 and higher, Netscape Navigator 6 and higher.", that "[the stream] can be viewed [only] on Microsoft Windows and Macintosh platforms." and "[you] cannot support Linux in a legal way.".

As a user of free and open source software, this cought my attention. As a politically interested citizen, I would like to know why a proprietary (secret, probably patent-encumbered) format was chosen over an open video standard like Ogg Theora or XviD.

Proprietary formats, like WMV, are vendor-specific: They prevent or make it difficult for others to implement the specification. In this specific case, one has to download Windows Media Player, which is not avaiable for GNU/Linux, the operating system I am using. In constrast, open standards enable everyone to implement them: They are a vendor-agnostic, royalty-free and allow for a wide range of implementations. This can be compared to the analogue radio program, which can be heard with any radio, not just radios from microsoft.

As you can see, the use of a proprietary format is unfair, discriminatory behaviour against those who can not or do not want to use Microsoft Windows Media Player. The fact that this is done by a government entity makes it worse. In my opinion, gouvernment should not discriminate people - not even based on their choice of software. This is somehow a policital issue, but I doubt any reasonable citizen would oppose my position.

Most likely it is technically possible to offer the streaming media service in an open format to enable everyone with a capable computer and a good internet connection to watch it. You could do this, for example, with the free and open source software VLC Media Player [3], which is avaiable for a wide range of operating systems free of charge. Another way to provide wide access to your media stream could be the use of a java applet like Cortado (also free and open source software) which eliminates the need for a media player.


XXXX XXXX, a concerned citizen of the European Union


[1] http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?threshold=0& mode=thread&commentsort=0&op=Change&sid=214392
[2] http://ceuweb.belbone.be/faq.php?lang=EN
[3] http://videolan.org/
[4] http://www.flumotion.net/cortado/

In order to make your streams as widely available as possible, we provide the Cortado Java applet as free software under the GPL. By embedding this applet in your website, you can give viewers access to streams from either the Flumotion streaming server or play a local file from your server without the need for a locally installed media player supporting the correct formats on the visitori's computer.

Cortado currently include Java decoders for Ogg Theora, Ogg Vorbis, Mulaw audio, MJPEG and our own Smoke codec. You can find examples of Cortado in use on the Fluendo demo site.

Not sure about Darwin Steaming Server but I'm pretty sure you could do the same thing with the Flumotion Streaming server that uses Gstreamer

Hi. I'm not claiming that this project has any relation to the organization mentioned in the article, but it is a functionally similar set of free software that is backed by a company. According to the site, it's a "Playerless streaming applet for Ogg formats".

flumotion is built on top of python & gstreamer, seems fairly cool.
http://www.flumotion.net/

From the description, the 'VX30' codec looks like Theora, and the Java player sounds like cortado. They even say they're using Vorbis as the audio codec, which wouldn't surprise me.

Why ? Because GStreamer was designed *from the start* to be pluggable. The whole patent issue is one of the main reasons why GStreamer is designed the way it is. Sure, it took a lot longer to get to a point where stuff starts to Just Work, because we wanted to make sure we would be around when the shit hits the fan.

So while a lot of other projects chose to ignore the whole patent problem, and a lot of projects used the GPL as a license (which indeed is not compatible with patents), making it possible for any distro to ship them, we had the focus of making sure that the GStreamer platform is pluggable to the point where the libraries can be put in or taken out without breaking the applications. It's also one of the reasons why GStreamer, from the start, has been LGPL - because that allows distributors to ship a complete stack of GStreamer applications legally in places where software patents apply (like, say, the whole US). Fighting software patents is a great idea. Waving the problem away as if it's not there is not.

Also, with the arrival of Fluendo, a company building stuff on top of GStreamer, (and also a company I happily work for :)), people will be able to get codecs for the patented formats in a legal way, if they chose not to run the risk, or if they want to be legally safe.

What does this mean in the end ?

• Distributions can finally ship a multimedia platform in a legal way; see the up-take on Totem and RhythmBox for example. Flumotion, Fluendo's streaming server with support for royalty-free codecs, is a new project and already it is gaining quite an uptake.

  Very few distros have taken the risk to ship one of the other projects, for legal reasons. (Apparently the mighty Debian ships Xine, and while on any other non-free subject lots of noise is made, this one seems to be left alone because it's a big deal).

  It is no coincidence that projects like mplayer, vlc, and xine do not get shipped by most distributions. In fact, coincidentally, Fluendo did a press release on this very issue yesterday.

• Source does not have to be "crippled" to be shippable. Other projects get their tarball mangled to remove all questionable code, causing lots of bug reports, ... Take XMMS in Fedora as an example - people complained loudly about the removal of MP3. Actually, Red Hat had the guts to make a stand and decide "we can't legally ship this, and we should stop pretending it's not a problem."
• GStreamer had some discussions with the FSF (here's the result. In a nutshell, it is vital for a complete framework (ie, all parts of its stack) to not be GPL (or GPL, with an exception clause for GStreamer - see our licensing advisory for more info). The GPL is not compatible with patents. A distro can not risk shipping a stack of libs/plugins/applications where one of these is GPL.
• "For sale" distributions will finally be able to ship proprietary plugins for these patented codecs, as well as playback applications, and DVD playback, *and it will finally be legal* on Linux.
• Apart from Sorenson (who outright refuse - or are not allowed - to license code to anyone but Apple), codec companies are turning around, taking note of Linux, and Fluendo is stepping up to make sure that those who really want these proprietary codecs can buy them.
• Here is what you can do. People need to realize that, jus

A great cross-platform solution would be Theora via Flumotion -- you can watch in a java applet or advanced users can play the stream directly in your player of choice if you have the codecs installed.