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Opps...

I hosed the last link...

If you want to see significant battery life improvements, look at trying WiSyncPlus. Unlike Advanced Task Killer, you won't have trouble finding people recommending that app.

So now I'm an accountant?

Bother to do some quick searches. You won't have trouble finding many recommending to uninstall the application so as to drastically improve battery life. And it makes absolutely sense. You can't get the information without polling the system.

This is just one example which was very hastily found via Google.

If you want to see significant battery life improvements, look at trying

One of the common complaints about the G1 was that, while people liked the phone, they decided the battery life was just too short to be useful. How does the cliq fair in this department? You can have great features, but if the battery dies in 2 or 3 hours, no one will care.

This is a myth and absolutely not true. It has not been true since Android 1.5 was released. Battery life is fine for all available Android phones. If the G1 has a battery life too short, then so does the iPhone. If you run the G1 with an iPhone-like load, the G1 will meet or beat the iPhone.

The problem with the G1 is completely unrealistic user expectations combined with early (pre-cupcake) battery life issues. It is simply not realistic to obtain facebook, twitter, weather, email, text message and mms updates, on 3G and/or WIFI, every every couple of minutes on any smart phone and expect it to last more than a day. No smart phone with capabilities on par with the iPhone or Android can do that. Period. On the other hand, if you want to be more reasonable and allow for far more spurious updates and synchronization, battery life is drastically improved.

As I've been working hard to dispel the poor G1 battery life myth, there is also an application which drastically helps here too. Its WiSyncPlus.

Simply put, anyone who is experiencing poor battery life on a G1 has one or more of the following problems: bad battery, bad applications (some of the more popular qualify here), poor application configuration, poor synchronization configuration. Applications which are especially bad at draining battery life are ShopSavvy, Locale, and various popular weather applications, but there are plenty of others too. And along these lines, users themselves bare a lot of the problems. Do you really need to check weather every five minutes? 99.99% of the time, absolutely not! Refreshing weather once every several hours, or maybe one or twice a day is more than plenty for most.

Likewise, applications like Locale and ShopSavvy constantly detect and report your location to third parties, generally without your permission. And they constantly do so at the expense of your battery life. Now you know why your WIFI is constantly turned on and off. Any application which makes use of SkyHook is going to track your location and drain your battery. Also applications which make use of Ad Mob are also likely to inflict poor battery life on your.

Long story short, there is no excuse to complain about poor battery life on a G1 or any other Android phone. You just need to take responsibility for the applications you install and be reasonable of what you demand your phone to do on your behalf. Expecting it to run (not sleeping) 24x7 on a battery is not reasonable by any measure, regardless of the device in question.

...personal opinion on looks ignored...

it's the hardware (which so far sucks big-time).

Really shouldn't respond to this either as its 100% opinion and not fact. The hardware, while not stellar, is very nice. There is nothing wrong with the hardware. It absolutely does not "suck big-time".

a honking huge slide-out

More ignored...but believe it or not, many actually like to USE their phone which means a physical qwerty is required for this class ("smart") of use. Many are very excited about form and function on Motorola's Cliq. Is it for everyone? Hardly. But neither is the majority, "look at me, aren't I cool", iPhone owner. It boils down to preference. FACTUALLY speaking, only a qwerty provides maximum usability. Anything else is about style rather than function. If iphone-esk looks were all that mattered to phone owners, 95+% (made up stat to make point) of the market would disappear tomorrow. So once again, it boils down to preference. You prefer form over function, get an iPhone or one of the other iPhone-like Android phones (Hero, Galaxy, MyTouch, etc). You prefer functionality over form, then the iPhone is immediately crossed out and you have Android phones or one of the other smart phones (Palm, WinMo) available to choose from. Again, its preference...

and tiny battery

More ignored... Go get WiSyncPlus and actually use it, and you'll find your battery life is hugely increased. The simple fact is, the battery is plenty big, as is. G1s today can easily meet or exceed iPhone battery life when run under equivalent loads. And that's the problem, all current Android phones, by far, are under much heavier loads than an iPhone, simply because Android-like loads are impossible, because of Apple limitations, on an iPhone. And with those load limitations come huge application limitations. Again, its preference. What's important to you? Form or function? Once again, function and capability tends to always be Android biased.

You'll note I didn't blame anything, I simply said that in normal use smartphones generally have a crappy battery life.

I think we're talking two sides of the same coin here. I'm addressing the perception of poor battery life. Based on your comment, its fair to say, "in contrast to other smart phones, the G1 has good battery life." And that's the problem. We're really dealing with perception and semantics. The perception is, of smart phones, the G1 has especially poor life. That's the perception I disavow because its factually not true. Realistically, the G1 has very good life given its load. That's the facts.

In other words, if you walk around saying the G1 has poor battery life, people accept it as such as so much myth exists to support that position. So long as you qualify your comment of compared to non-smart phones my G1 has poor battery life, I don't have an issue with that statement. But if you state it where the perceived comment is in contrast to other smart phones, as in it has poor life, then that statement is completely misleading, factually false, and only serves to provide additional substance to what is already a run-away myth.

That's the point I'm making.

I have to say that this is one criticism I have about Android - the stock OS doesn't actually make it that easy to know when apps are draining the battery and which are responsible.

For that reason "Spare Parts" needs to be more readily available. I agree. I don't recall if its included in the OEM builds or not. It does a good job of tracking battery use, power locks, sleep/wake time, etc. Like you I do agree the results are not always obvious to the layman. As a side note, I believe its also available on the market as a free download.

People on Slashdot often seem to struggle with the idea that people might be away from a power socket for more than a few minutes. It isn't uncommon for me to be away from a power socket for a week or more. "1-3 days" just doesn't cut it.

If that's the case, then either no smart phone is a good pick for you, you need to change your expectations to be far more realistic, or you need to adjust your phone's workload to provide the mandatory life. None of those are unreasonable options.

Keep in mind, even at three days, I'm doing a fair bit of email and phone calling and a little browsing/texting. If I only did email and phone calls (length dependent), more than three days is easily achievable. Again, WiSyncPlus also helps here. I do agree it would be impossible without the likes of WiSyncPlus. From the website you can read the battery claims. Standby time is claimed to be very high. But its not realistic to expect any smart phone to be always on and yet last weeks at a time. That's the reason the Palm-Pre is doomed to horrible battery life. No phone does that without extra batteries. None. Its physically impossible and therefore very unrealistic to have such expectations. And that's what seems to confuse me. Above you readily admit no smart phone has good battery life and then you turn and seem to suggest your G1 has poor battery life while knowing full well it doesn't; and then turn again and insist it does. I don't know what to think of that.

No, it really isn't. Sure, you can get great battery life if you turn all the useful stuff off, but that isn't what most people want to do. I'm not interested in knowing what the absolute maximum battery life I might get is, I'm interested in the life I'm going to get in normal use. This is no different to car manufacturers quoting "best case" (i.e. totally unrealistic) MPG figures - it might sell well, but it is utterly meaningless since no one will ever see that kind of efficency in the real world.

Maximum battery life is not what this thread has been about. Not one bit. At least not in any form on my side. I'm talking about real world, realistic battery life. If it was about maximum battery life, easily you can see weeks on an Andro

The battery life isn't great, which is also a problem for the iPhone, but the HTC Dream lets me replace the battery, so if I'm going to be away from power for a long time I can just take a couple of spares, which is completely out for the iPhone.

I really, really wish people would stop saying that. The battery life is actually pretty good and with some simple software, can be made even better while still providing more functionality that is available to iPhone users. Contrary to the apples to apples comparison iPhone users always portray, Android runs background services and can therefore, carry a workload during periods which are simply impossible on the iPhone. In other words, what they portray an an apples to apples comparison is actually an apples to oranges on 'riods comparison. A steady workload means steady battery consumption. There is nothing you can do about that other than limit the different in workloads. If you want your battery to last longer, make it run on par with the iPhone's limited workload. Doing so is trivially easy and many software solutions for Android already exist to do so.

Additionally, you can install software like WiSyncPlus, which for many, drastically extends battery life. With WiSyncPlus you can easily obtain 100+ hours, or more, over what iPhone users have, assuming an iPhone-like workload. And best of all, with WiSyncPlus you can still achieve workloads on your device which will still make iPhone users envious. Simply put, with readily available software solutions, an inferior G1 can still provide more functionality AND MORE BATTERY LIFE.

Simply put, the battery life on the G1 is actually FAR better than what iPhone users have. Period. The questions is, are you using your phone to create a proper comparison. Most Android phone users do not. If you want longer battery life, get WiSyncPlus for a couple of bucks. If you want multiple batteries, drop $30-$60 each. Or, you can actually limit yourself and your phone to the reduced workloads of an iPhone and still have longer battery life.

Long story short, please, please, please story propagating the horrible misinformation that G1s have poor battery life. This has not been true since "cupcake" was release. The simply truth of the matter is, G1's have been battery life and iPhone 3G and 3GS. Even better, battery life continues to improve as Android evolves. So please stop parroting the misinformation feed to everyone by iPhone fanboys.

Battery life is a joke. It's a smart-phone with a bright color display and the old Razr battery.

Not true. You can see longer battery life with a G1 than you can with the iPhone 3G or 3Gs. An application called WiSyncPlus goes a long way toward forcing a more "iPhone-like" operating profile. When running as such, users can observe up to 100+ hours more battery life than what the iPhone is seeing. Commonly people are seeing 1 day between charges if they twitter/facebook/email/im lots; which is impossible to the same degree with an iPhone. Those who are more conservative with their choice of applications see 1-2 days between charges. Those two groups typically see 2-3 days between charges with WiSyncPlus installed. Those who typically use their device more as a phone and occasionally as a smart device, combined with WiSyncPlus, can go a week between charges.

Furthermore, after Android 1.5 ("cupcake") was released, battery life improved considerably. Those that parrot poor battery life for any Android handset are either ignorant of the facts or pushing an agenda. Simple fact is, battery life is much better after the release of cupcake. With applications like WiSyncPlus, battery life can actually exceed, by far, the battery life of iPhone users. And even better, battery life continues to improve with additional Android improvements. Those users running "donut" derived Android are seeing yet additionally improved battery life; over and above that seen with "cupcake."

Instead, you get a kludge-cord that connects your headset through the power jack.

Not sure why that's a "kludge" other than an attempt to paint it very negatively. Most don't consider a multiple purpose port to be a "kludge" unless you're trying to push an agenda. Many multipurpose adapters are available which provide a multitude of options from a single port. While I do agree, a dedicated 3mm port would be better, that's still a far cry from a "kludge". Despite not having a dedicated 3mm port, the fact you have purchase an inexpensive adapter which provides a 2mm or 3mm port plus additional features while still exposing the USB port, is many things, but definitely not a "kludge" to be painted in negative light.

The camera takes butt-ugly pictures

Not sure where you got that bad information. For its MP rating, the pictures are actually very nice. I've shown pictures to people who asked about the source. They believed it was from a dedicated point-n-shoot having a higher MP rating. The simple fact is, the image quality is actually quite good.

The speaker is too quite. You can't hear your call or music in traffic or on a plane

Where are you getting your factually incorrect information from?!? The speaker is very loud. I can listen to music while I'm in the shower, with the phone ten feet away, playing over its internal speaker. Granted, like all tiny speakers, fidelity is what it is, but loudness is definitely not a problem unless unless you require a 100 watt amp for your hearing aid.

Cheap construction - the glass lens cover on mine broke when I dropped the phone 2 feet onto carpet.

Complete bullshit. The G1 is very well built and very tough. I've dropped my from waist high over carpet and didn't as much get a scratch. I've also fumbled it over title. It didn't receive a strictly vertical strike but its horizontal velocity had it traveling pretty fast. It stopped after it bounced off the wall, having skipped across the floor. Not issues. For this one I did have it in plastic armor. Even then, I would have only expected scratches.

Obviously you're a scared iPhone fanboy who can see the writing on the wall. You Apple/Iphone is quickly becoming eclipsed and simply isn't as "cool" as it once was because of Android. There isn't a iPhone 3Gs user that doesn't owe a thank you to Google/Android.

The phone is ugly, and has a small display when compared

Battery life is a joke. It's a smart-phone with a bright color display and the old Razr battery.

Not true. You can see longer battery life with a G1 than you can with the iPhone 3G or 3Gs. An application called WiSyncPlus goes a long way toward forcing a more "iPhone-like" operating profile. When running as such, users can observe up to 100+ hours more battery life than what the iPhone is seeing. Commonly people are seeing 1 day between charges if they twitter/facebook/email/im lots; which is impossible to the same degree with an iPhone. Those who are more conservative with their choice of applications see 1-2 days between charges. Those two groups typically see 2-3 days between charges with WiSyncPlus installed. Those who typically use their device more as a phone and occasionally as a smart device, combined with WiSyncPlus, can go a week between charges.

Furthermore, after Android 1.5 ("cupcake") was released, battery life improved considerably. Those that parrot poor battery life for any Android handset are either ignorant of the facts or pushing an agenda. Simple fact is, battery life is much better after the release of cupcake. With applications like WiSyncPlus, battery life can actually exceed, by far, the battery life of iPhone users. And even better, battery life continues to improve with additional Android improvements. Those users running "donut" derived Android are seeing yet additionally improved battery life; over and above that seen with "cupcake."

Instead, you get a kludge-cord that connects your headset through the power jack.

Not sure why that's a "kludge" other than an attempt to paint it very negatively. Most don't consider a multiple purpose port to be a "kludge" unless you're trying to push an agenda. Many multipurpose adapters are available which provide a multitude of options from a single port. While I do agree, a dedicated 3mm port would be better, that's still a far cry from a "kludge". Despite not having a dedicated 3mm port, the fact you have purchase an inexpensive adapter which provides a 2mm or 3mm port plus additional features while still exposing the USB port, is many things, but definitely not a "kludge" to be painted in negative light.

The camera takes butt-ugly pictures

Not sure where you got that bad information. For its MP rating, the pictures are actually very nice. I've shown pictures to people who asked about the source. They believed it was from a dedicated point-n-shoot having a higher MP rating. The simple fact is, the image quality is actually quite good.

The speaker is too quite. You can't hear your call or music in traffic or on a plane

Where are you getting your factually incorrect information from?!? The speaker is very loud. I can listen to music while I'm in the shower, with the phone ten feet away, playing over its internal speaker. Granted, like all tiny speakers, fidelity is what it is, but loudness is definitely not a problem unless unless you require a 100 watt amp for your hearing aid.

Cheap construction - the glass lens cover on mine broke when I dropped the phone 2 feet onto carpet.

Complete bullshit. The G1 is very well built and very tough. I've dropped my from waist high over carpet and didn't as much get a scratch. I've also fumbled it over title. It didn't receive a strictly vertical strike but its horizontal velocity had it traveling pretty fast. It stopped after it bounced off the wall, having skipped across the floor. Not issues. For this one I did have it in plastic armor. Even then, I would have only expected scratches.

Obviously you're a scared iPhone fanboy who can see the writing on the wall. You Apple/Iphone is quickly becoming eclipsed and simply isn't as "cool" as it once was because of Android. There isn't a iPhone 3Gs user that doesn't owe a thank you to Google/Android.

The phone is ugly, and has a small display when compared