Motorola Introduces Android Phones, Social Software

ruphus13 was among the readers sending word of Motorola's Android handsets yesterday, along with a "socially aware" application layer called MotoBlur. The Motorola Cliq is expected in a few weeks. T-Mobile is Motorola's carrier partner in the US. A second Android phone will be marketed in other countries under the name Dext. Reuters called the market's reaction to Motorola's announcement "muted." "Dr. Sanjay K. Jha, Co-CEO of Motorola and CEO of the company's Mobile Devices division, unveiled Motorola's Android platform play. ... Key to both of the phones, and key to Motorola's overall Android strategy, is a new interface and application layer called MotoBlur. It's focused on 'a single stream' for social networking features, software updates, messages, syncing, e-mails, videos, photos... The Cliq phone has a 5-megapixel camera, slide-out keyboard, 24 frame-per-second video capabilities, GPS, a headphone jack, an advanced browser from Google, integrated Exchange service, and Google roaming services including Google voice search, access to maps, Google calendar, and more. It also provides one-click access to Android Market and the thousands of Android applications there."

Comments

Muted reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

Motorola had a smartphone OS that it could customize and reskin. They sucked in part because they are not a software company. Switching horses from WM to Android ain't gonna solve that. These devices will suck too.

Re:Muted reaction

[ClosedSource]

Yes, I've been wanting to buy a smartphone from a manufacturer that isn't a hardware company for some time; can you help me?

Re:Muted reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

Very well put. GP is so diametrically wrong as to be amusing. This phone alone should have Palm sweating, and it's only one of a wide set of offerings.

Re:Muted reaction

[WaywardGeek]

The phone itself looks like it was designed in Taiwan, not by Motorola. Where is the great design team that gave us the Razr? The problem with Android phones isn't the software (which rocks), it's the hardware (which so far sucks big-time). Why would Moto put out another crappy plastic phone with a honking huge slide-out keyboard and tiny battery, when HTC already has that market covered with the T-Mobile G1? Also, T-Mobile isn't exactly the premier partner... why doesn't Verison wake up and get a good phone? They have the best network, happiest customers, and crap for phones. Why they can't get a clue is one of the great mysteries of the universe.

Anyway, I'll probably be forced to buy another iPhone after my crappy T-Mobile G1 gives up the ghost. I hate to go back to evil Apple and the AT&T dork squad. But, that's where we developers have access to the most customers. I'll just hold my nose and enjoy the beautiful hardware Apple designs.

Anyway, hurray for Moto for a headphone jack! That is the biggest reason T-Mobile customers will prefer the Moto device over both of HTCs.

Re:Muted reaction

[GooberToo]

...personal opinion on looks ignored...

it's the hardware (which so far sucks big-time).

Really shouldn't respond to this either as its 100% opinion and not fact. The hardware, while not stellar, is very nice. There is nothing wrong with the hardware. It absolutely does not "suck big-time".

a honking huge slide-out

More ignored...but believe it or not, many actually like to USE their phone which means a physical qwerty is required for this class ("smart") of use. Many are very excited about form and function on Motorola's Cliq. Is it for everyone? Hardly. But neither is the majority, "look at me, aren't I cool", iPhone owner. It boils down to preference. FACTUALLY speaking, only a qwerty provides maximum usability. Anything else is about style rather than function. If iphone-esk looks were all that mattered to phone owners, 95+% (made up stat to make point) of the market would disappear tomorrow. So once again, it boils down to preference. You prefer form over function, get an iPhone or one of the other iPhone-like Android phones (Hero, Galaxy, MyTouch, etc). You prefer functionality over form, then the iPhone is immediately crossed out and you have Android phones or one of the other smart phones (Palm, WinMo) available to choose from. Again, its preference...

and tiny battery

More ignored... Go get WiSyncPlus and actually use it, and you'll find your battery life is hugely increased. The simple fact is, the battery is plenty big, as is. G1s today can easily meet or exceed iPhone battery life when run under equivalent loads. And that's the problem, all current Android phones, by far, are under much heavier loads than an iPhone, simply because Android-like loads are impossible, because of Apple limitations, on an iPhone. And with those load limitations come huge application limitations. Again, its preference. What's important to you? Form or function? Once again, function and capability tends to always be Android biased.

Re:Muted reaction

[WaywardGeek]

The hardware, while not stellar, is very nice. There is nothing wrong with the hardware. It absolutely does not "suck big-time".

It's all relative. If we hadn't seen such great phones from Moto in the past, and Apple currently, the G1 would rate pretty good (except for the stupid lack of a headphone jack). I'm just disappointed, because I don't want another medium-end phone like the G1, I want a polished thing of beauty and function like the original Razr and the current iPhone.

So, yes, form is important to me. My G1 mostly functions OK as a phone, except for poor volume (the original iPhone had this problem, too). It's the extras that don't compare: the camera, size, battery capacity, storage for music and photos, etc. Note that I haven't got any complaints about the OS, except that Google should grow a pair and duplicate the cool multi-touch and animation features of the iPhone, like the Palm Pre does.

Re:Muted reaction

[GooberToo]

I must admit I expected a flamed response. Thanks for the surprise.

Keep an eye out for the Galaxy or the Shules (or was it the other upcoming Moto phone). Both are reported to have some nice specs. There are a couple of other models which have been leaked which blow the iPhone's specs out of the water. IIRC, HTC is soon to have a higher end Qualcomm offering too. By year end, world wide, there should be plenty of Android offers which easily excels way past any Apple offering, from a hardware perspective.

Re:Muted reaction

[comm2k]

Where is the great design team that gave us the Razr?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/09/cat_keynes_motorola/

Re:Muted reaction

[WaywardGeek]

In that case, I will continue to wait in anticipation! I am a big fan of the Android platform. I've just been very disappointed waiting since Nov of 2007 (the original big announcement) until now, still waiting for a leading edge hardware platform. With 75,000 apps on Apple's App Store, Android has fallen very far behind. Also, none of this is Google's fault, IMO. Google delivered the best competitor in phone OSes, and the handset manufacturers ignored it. So far, we only have Taiwan hand sets, and only then because Qualcom is a major investor in HTC, and even then, HTC reserved it's best work for Windows Mobile handsets (which frankly are more impressive than the G1). Also, while T-Mobile is an OK cell phone service provider, the major providers have completely ignored Android, and instead pursued obsolete proprietary offerings. They simply don't seem capable of understanding that the world has changed.

Re:Muted reaction

[onemorechip]

The problem with Android phones isn't the software (which rocks), it's the hardware (which so far sucks big-time).

Could you maybe enlighten us? What experience of yours prompted this opinion? I've got a myTouch and the hardware is fine. Actually my one complaint is on the software; so far the Android team has not enabled Bluetooth file browsing services. And even that's not a major deal because there are other ways to do what I need.

Re:Muted reaction

[onemorechip]

Really shouldn't respond

More ignored

More ignored

So basically your method of ignoring the three points you quoted is to respond to each of them?

Re:Muted reaction

[GooberToo]

You might bother to read before you look like a total douche. Much was ignored, exactly as I said, where I said. Or are you making light of the fact I acknowledged a portion I said I ignored?

Re:Muted reaction

[WaywardGeek]

Whoa! Nice link! I guess Motorola is going through the same thing as Sony. I doubt Vista would have been such a wet blanket if Gates had been seriously involved like he use to be. Apple may fade rapidly after that great ass Jobs dies (I'll throw a party).

Re:Muted reaction

[GooberToo]

Android has fallen very far behind.

They started out behind. How can they fall behind? With the exception of market sales, Android has met or beat every significant milestone established by Apple and their iPhone. There are now 10,000+ applications available for Android; though I personally believe maybe only 20%-30% are worth looking at. I hear the same thing about the App Store. So technically, that means its far, far harder to find quality applications on an iPhone. Thus far, Android is on schedule, if not ahead of schedule, to be ahead of the iPhone by 2012.

Google delivered the best competitor in phone OSes, and the handset manufacturers ignored it.

With just cause. Frankly, version of Android less than 1.5 were never ready for public consumption. And even Cupcake has some serious technical failings; though it does continue to get better and better. It appears the up coming release of Donut will finally allow the Android platform to exceed or meet iPhones in every category, not counting the categories where iPhone is simply not allowed to compete. Really, Android is brand new and the carriers were right to pass on it until recently, as frustrating as that is.

HTC reserved it's best work for Windows Mobile

That's not surprising. HTC, just like everyone else has been putting their toes in the water. Response has far exceeded expectations for HTC handsets and it now looks like at least one high end HTC handset will be available before the end of the year. Sorry, I don't recall the name...something HD and possibly another from that line. HTC needs MS until Android has proved its staying power. And even then, MS still sells units for them. It would be a bad decision for them to piss on MS while riding an unproven horse in the market.

Also, while T-Mobile is an OK cell phone service provider

By the end of this year, three of the largest US carriers will have at least one Android handset available. Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile are all excited about their Android offerings. Verizon and Sprint have both announced plans. T-Mobile has announced a third handset. Even AT&T has publicly stated they misstepped with Android, and withdrew two handsets before they launched. Some are speculating AT&T will have an Android offering by Christmas...but that's just speculation. The more reasonable expectation is for AT&T to have an offering by first or second quarter of next year. Having said that, most expect AT&T to play the low to mid field for Android handsets, so as to not compete with their iPhone cash-cow. Furthermore, depending on whos paperwork you believe, Verizon is poised to have as many as three Android handsets available between now and the second quarter of next year.

Worldwide, over twenty Android handsets will be available before the end of this year. Its safe to say, unless something really horrific happens, 2010 will be the year of the Android.

Re:Muted reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

He can't help it he looks like a douche. Mommy and daddy's genes and all.

Re:Muted reaction

[onemorechip]

Yes, the second thing.

Re:Muted reaction

[mdwh2]

But, that's where we developers have access to the most customers.

Your reference that shows the Iphone is the number 1 selling phone in existence? There are more phones besides Android ones, you know.

And nothing beats the market of 2 billion Java phones. I know that Java has its limits, but it's good enough for most phone software - why do some people yearn for a return to the bad old days when every platform was incompatible with each other? I thought with phones, we were going to avoid that, but then the Iphone came along, not supporting the common standard that every other phone supports, and messed that up.

As a developer, I don't want to have to wait months for a company to "approve" my software, or perhaps refuse to allow it at all. I expect to be able to release what I like, and for it to Just Work.

Re:Muted reaction

[WaywardGeek]

Well... we both agree Apple is evil, then? Just because Steve Jobs has the genius to understand how to build a future monopoly in the cell phone space, while the rest of the industry sat with their thumbs up their butts.... that doesn't make him any less of an a-hole.

Re:Muted reaction

[WaywardGeek]

Actually, I hope the myTouch is a big improvement over the G1. I've never played with a myTouch (there have to be jokes to make over that sentence). The bigger screen and lack of a keyboard are features I want. Also, the battery is slightly bigger, but still only a pathetic portion of the total volume compared to an iPhone. I would consider upgrading, but when I found it didn't have a freaking headphone jack, I just couldn't. I'll never again make the mistake of buying a phone without one.

Anyway, since you asked, I had one of the earliest G1s. Before that, I had an iPhone. So, in comparison to the iPhone (which isn't really fair, it's like comparing to a Ferrari) here's what sucks:

- No headphone jack. Are you kidding me? How incredibly stupid do the HTC people have to be to keep this super-important feature off the new myTouch?
- The speaker is too quiet. I had this problem with my original iPhone, too. Crud gets in that speaker slot, and you can't hear a conversation in any noisy environment.
- While the phone is as big as an iPhone, the battery is about 1/3 the size.
- While the phone is as big as an iPhone, the screen is only 2.5", compared to 3.5" for the iPhone. Size matters.
- I prefer a slim design without a slide-out keyboard. I know this is a religious war, but it's fixed for me in the myTouch.
- The whole phone is built out of plastic. I pay too much for this phone to get a cheap feeling PoS.
- The camera in my phone sucks big-time. Even in the small screen, images appear clear in the middle, but faded on the edges, and the colour sucks, and I'm colour blind!
- My 1st generation iPhone had 8 gig of flash. My G1 had 0. I had to pay $$ for the micro-sd card. Micro-sd is both expensive, and lacks high-capacity cards.
- The iPhone has all kinds of cool peripherals, like the stereo we bought for our iPods, and my car, which has an iPhone plug. This isn't really a problem with the G1, but let's face it... Apple is leveraginig their lead.

All and all, the G1 is the third best phone I've owned, given the technology at the time. My old razr was awesome, but I wanted to kill people at Verison for charging me to use my own camera. My iPhone was just awesome, until freaking Apple borked it. All in all, though I'm whining a lot, I've had more satisfaction from my lame G1 than any other phone.

Re:Muted reaction

[rmcd]

I looked at the G1 and found it too big and clumsy, For me, the Mytouch is a *much* nicer piece of hardware.

The MyTouch screen is 3.2", not 2.5.

The lack of a headphone jack is silly, but for me at any rate not a deal breaker (there's an adapter).

I'm thrilled with my MyTouch.

Re:Muted reaction

[Ingenium13]

You could always go with the Palm Pre (or Pixi...but that doesn't have wifi and has a smaller screen).

Re:Muted reaction

[tcr]

Good points...
 
I've had a G1 since they became available in the UK last November.
 
It's been a bittersweet experience, but I try to remember I'm judging three entities as one thing - Google, T-Mobile, and HTC.
 
Android seems a good, solid mobile OS - even if it doesn't have the interface aesthetics of the iPhone [ Big G : are talented graphic designers _that_ expensive? ]. T-Mobile 3G is mostly good, but can be patchy. In central London, though? Irritating.
 
HTC seems to be the weakest link... The hardware does feel cheap. A bit snapped off long ago - the silly USB cover panel. As others have mentioned, the lack of headphone jack is annoying. Sure, you can get an adapter for a few bucks on EBay. I'm on my fifth now... they just fall apart. If you want one that lets you charge USB and listen to music, you need a larger one. An extra chunky appendage on an already chunky handset that would send shudders of revulsion through Cupertino.
 
The battery life limits the usefulness of the device. Reading books on the web [O'R Safari mobile - great] and listening to music in the background, I can expect three to four hours. I haven't compared that to the stamina of the iPhone. Perhaps it's par for the course. I've taken to carrying one of these around with me.
 
The slide out keyboard is useful if I have a SSH session with ConnectBot, and also email, but for simpler text input (search, etc), I like the new on-screen keyboard. Pinpoint accuracy not needed... prod in roughly the same area as your letter, and it will offer word suggestions that are quite accurate after a few letters. The slide-out keyboard can be annoying. In some light conditions, the key background illumination is so bright that you can't actually see the keycaps. Crazy stuff.
 
The default music player looks like someone hacked it together over a weekend. Laughable compared to iTunes. Thankfully, Spotify mobile was launched last Monday. It's fantastic.... very slick. Who can resist carrying 5 million tracks around? :-) And of course, it just carries on playing in the background should you want to spend time in the browser (which the iPhone version can't). It's early days for mobile music streaming, of course, but the offline playlists work like a charm if you don't have signal or want to save the battery.
 
I hope the above doesn't sound too negative... I really am confident in the Android platform. I'm looking forward to the handsets due to emerge next year... perhaps I'll be offered an upgrade. At that point, my G1 is granted admittance to my dusty smartphone museum, to join the Nokia Communicator 9000, 9200, Palm Treo 600 & 650, and the Blackberry. Oh well, at least they're getting smaller....

Re:Muted reaction

[onemorechip]

The myTouch is a little smaller, a little lighter than the G1 due to lack of a hard keyboard, and that's one reason I waited for it. (I'd have had a G1 but I was still under a previous contract with TMobile, and by the time I was eligible for the full discount the myTouch had been announced so I figured I could wait another month or two for what clearly would be a better phone.)

It also has a nice solid feel to it, more so than my previous phones (Nokia). Who cares if you get that feel from a plastic case?

Your point that "Android phones...so far suck" needs to be backed up with negative points for all current Android phones, not just the G1. Otherwise it's a little unfair; with an open software architecture you're going to (eventually) have a wide range of implementations, from Yugos to Ferraris.

There's a headphone adapter for the USB port. It's not a big deal, really. I just leave the adapter attached to the headphones when not in use.

No complaints from me about the myTouch speaker. Volume is OK, and I certainly don't look to a phone's speaker for high fidelity. I never used a G1 other than to try it out in a store so I can't comment about that.

As long as the battery's big enough to get me a full day's use (even with GPS and Bluetooth always on, I usually have a decent charge left at the end of the day, battery icon around half full depending on how heavily used), smaller = lighter is better.

I don't know where you get 2.5" for the screen. Both the G1 and myTouch have 3.2" screens. I don't think the screen is small enough to suck. I have presbyopia (not too advanced yet) but I can read the myTouch screen *without* my glasses.

To be honest, I haven't gone out of my way to test this camera's quality; I took one picture in my backyard the first day I got it but it was low light (about half an hour after sunset) so not a good example. I do plan to try it out on some nature subjects when I go on a road trip in a couple of weeks.

I'm confused. Either the G1 "sucks", "is the third best phone" you've owned, or has given you "more satisfaction...than any other phone". But all three?

But thanks for answering me with some specifics. I only think it's overgeneralizing to apply these critiques to all Android phones.

Re:Muted reaction

[onemorechip]

Did they really *not* include the adapter *with* the G1? The myTouch came with the adapter. I believe you can by a new one, retail, for a few bucks.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Neil Hodges]

Troll or not, Windows 2000 is not much more obsolete than Windows XP in my opinion.

Does it run Linux?

[filesiteguy]

(Sorry, had to do it!)

Seriously, I wonder if this will become at all embedded in corporate america. So far, all I see (and use day/night) are blackberry devices. How long will that last? I'd love to see an android device in my business but have doubts about the adoption rate.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[gbjbaanb]

Android, WebOS, Moblin, Maemo... when are these 'convergent device' OSes going to converge to a single Linux distro?

LSB, we have a new problem for you to tackle!

(oh, and when are we going to see these as desktop OSs?)

Re:Does it run Linux?

[filesiteguy]

I have no idea about a moblin=based device. I run that in VirtualBox with some interest.

As for an android-based netbook, I don't think there's enough interest. I saw some rumblings a few months ago - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10297268-1.html - but that's all.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[ickleberry]

Runs the Linux Kernel but really not much else. The rest is a branded browser-based pushing platform for Google Web Services and a mostly proprietary touch-screen UI.

Maemo seems more 'open' and customisable at this point. Would love to see maemo run on non-touchscreen devices and without any animated effects

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Runs the Linux Kernel but really not much else.

Let's see what's included in the core distro...

aes, apache-http, bison, bluez, bsdiff, bzip2, clearsilver, dbus, dhcpcd, dosfstools, dropbear, e2fsprogs, elfcopy, elfutils, embunit, emma, esd, expat, fdlibm, freetype, gdata, genext2fs, giflib, grub, icu4c, iptables, jdiff, jhead, jpeg, libffi, libpcap, libpng, libxml2, netcat, netperf, neven, opencore, openssl, oprofile, ping, ppp, protobuf, qemu, safe-iop, skia, sonivox, sqlite, srec, strace, tagsoup, tcpdump, tinyxml, tremor, webkit, wpa_supplicant, xdelta3, yaffs2, zlib

Hmm, that's "not much" else?

The rest is a branded browser-based pushing platform for Google Web Services and a mostly proprietary touch-screen UI.

Funny, I looked through the source for this "proprietary" UI, and I couldn't find it - everything is covered by the GPLv2.

Just because it's not X11, doesn't mean it's proprietary.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[rickb928]

I don't see the demand for corporate workers to have Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, et al available 24x7.

Yet.

If you can get yer consultant to turn Twitter into a corporate must-have enablement disrupter, then you'll see these in Corporate America.

Of course, around here, we just raise our voices a little bit, and everyone knows our business. No twitter required. Even the tall cubicles can be circumvented with a change in volume, or standing up.

Since we don't get Facebook, MySpace, YouTube, Twitter, etc here at work, then we need these phones to maintain our personal lives while we are at work. Well, maybe not so much... Though I'm looking forward to someone burning ROMs of Blur for my G1. I need something to make it run slower then ever.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Thinboy00]

Funny, I looked through the source for this "proprietary" UI, and I couldn't find it - everything is covered by the GPLv2.

Just because it's not X11, doesn't mean it's proprietary.

My best guess: GP meant "nonstandard".

Re:Does it run Linux?

[filesiteguy]

lol!

Twitter at work? That shouldn't be.

*cough* tor *cough*

Actually I can tweet (though I usually don't) and use FB from the blackberry. Being a PHB, I'm in an office and removed from my staff. They can yell but I don't hear them. I only can yell at my secretary.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[rickb928]

Around here, 'Tor' is a synonym for 'fired'.

Like the guys in networking don't know that trick. pffft. If I wanna tweet, I got to use my phone. Woohoo.

And I do use my phone to probe the honeypot open WiFi they run from time to time. So far they haven't come for me...

Re:Does it run Linux?

[filesiteguy]

Ouch! I'm surprised they pay attention.

I also have a proxy laptop running at my house. In that manner I get to proxy my connection through my home network for things that need speed such as youtube.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[rickb928]

Besides the web filters, hard firewall rules, and 'smart' content filters, the networking guys here are proud of their record. No known (!) breaches.

Recently a contractor got caught taking some data home on a stick. Not good for him.

And they take security seriously in the way that I get the content filter warning often enough, but no one comes to ask me what I'm trying to do. And I understand most of what they are filtering - warez sites, obvious problem sites, and of course anything intended to help me circumvent security, which would of course include anything likely to host malware.

I'm not complaining. My phone is mostly in the holster. If I wanna fritter away some time, I got /.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Anonymous Coward]

They have a very good mechanism to protect themselves, from these kinds of posts, on the other land the loontards troll every tech site out here they can find.

Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[swanzilla]

...we are still limited to RIM and HTC. Boo.

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[SanityInAnarchy]

Actually, I've got a Motorola phone from Verizon.

It's just so bastardized it's funny.

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[stoolpigeon]

HTC will be rolling out a number of Android based phones - in the US - soon. I think they have 4 already.

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[Theoboley]

Yea, I have the Q9C on Alltel/verizon... and it is a complete pile of trash.

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[dubbayu_d_40]

I think we need a public option.

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[edmicman]

I *thought* Motorola was supposed to also announce the Sholes yesterday for Verizon....where the heck was that? Nobody anywhere seems to be saying anything about it....

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[josteos]

YOU LIE!!!!

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[k_187]

yes, but whether or not Verizon will offer them is an entirely other question. I want to say I heard something about Verizon saying they would do so, but I don't remember where or when I did.

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[Hurricane78]

Did you say “pubic optio...” No? Oh... OK... :/

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[MBGMorden]

Not sure which you're referring to, but the Motorola Krave ZN4 on Verizon is like some spawn of a demon from the 7th level of Hell. It is the WORST touch screen device I've ever used. It's constantly picking up taps on the wrong area of the screen. I'm constantly calling people on accident because I click to call one person in my contact list and it dials the one above or below it. Text messaging? O.M.G. Same thing, but the tap areas are even smaller. If I have to type anything more than a line long I'm usually an inch from tossing the phone at the pavement, as I've had to retype almost every word at least once due to it registering the wrong key. AND THEN, quite often when I DO finish typing a word (or an abbreviation of one more commonly), the damn phone will sometimes just replace it due to the stupid auto-correction feature that I can't figure out how to turn off.

Compared to my iPod Touch, this thing is terrible. With the touch the input just seems fluid and does what you want. The Krave is like something you would have gotten in 1992 if Doc Brown had took back an iPhone and somebody found it and tried to copy it ...

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[onemorechip]

You're supposed to wait until he mentions undocumented aliens...

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[SanityInAnarchy]

It's the Adventure V750. It's difficult to pin down, but it seems very much like Verizon ripped out the media center and replaced it with "vcast". Of course, in general, I'm not liking the part where there's an app store (a tiny, wannabe app store), yet no way for me to actually develop software for it, even if the DRM wasn't an issue.

Also, mods, why's that a troll? I mean, is there something I'm missing that makes it actually trollish to people who don't work for Motorola?

Re:Meanwhile, in Verizonville...

[hey!]

It's wait for milestone ClueBat-Zeta. That's the point where every living person on Earth knows that Verizon isn't going to gain world domination by forcing its handset users to buy music and BREW based games through the Verizon store. I'd be amazed if they make much more money on their V.Cast music service than they spend on advertising it.

I'm sick of getting crippled smartphones from Verizon, with GPS disabled, no Java, and no bluetooth profiles other than what is needed to get a hands-free kit. I'm sick of having to registry hack my phone so I can install the applications that *I* want. If selling phones with network service were illegal, I'd be reasonably happy with Verizon because they've got the best coverage at my house. I'd be ecstatic if I could buy wireless bandwidth as a pure commodity, not as some kind of value added package.

Releasing an open phone goes so far against Verizon's corporate culture, I was shocked at the news that they were planning an Android phone. I won't be in line on the first day to buy it though; I'm going to wait to see what they've done to cripple it.

OIN

[Anonymous Coward]

The question is, does OIN protect only the linux kernel or any OSS project? For example, will OIN step up to protect ffmpeg? If not, then OIN is a bad thing because kernel developers say "ooh, patents are good, we got our ass covered".

If this was available nine months ago...

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a G1, but after seeing the video, I would rather have this one. Cool enhancements to Android O/S. And it runs Linux!

Re:If this was available nine months ago...

[Lemmy Caution]

I would not trust Motorola to maintain the cloud services behind MotoBlur for very long. Neither phone manufacturers nor service providers, in my experience, do a very poor job in follow-through for software and software-based services (Apple, for the most part, excepted; RIM as well.) The strength of the Android platform has been that Google is providing those services, and Google is interested in continuity, long-term relationships with their customers, etc.

Trying to take the Google out of Android and making it a "custom brand" is a confidence-killer for me. The Samsung phone is more promising.

Re:If this was available nine months ago...

[InlawBiker]

If the MotoBlur service "goes away" I wonder how customizable this phone would be as a stand-alone Android device. Theoretically you can customize the home screens any way you like and still access your "Social Wonder" sites individually. Besides which, it would avoid keeping all of your credentials somewhere out on Verizon's servers.

Re:If this was available nine months ago...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would not trust Motorola to maintain the cloud services behind MotoBlur for very long. Neither phone manufacturers nor service providers, in my experience, do a very poor job in follow-through for software and software-based services (Apple, for the most part, excepted; RIM as well.) The strength of the Android platform has been that Google is providing those services, and Google is interested in continuity, long-term relationships with their customers, etc.

Well, if the MotoBlur app(s) are really just custom-made interfaces to the various social network sites using the publicly-available APIs, then you're really not relying on Moto for anything apart from app updates (as needed).

Re:If this was available nine months ago...

[GooberToo]

And it runs Linux!

There is a modified Android image growing in popularity, for those willing to root their phone, called Cyanogen Mod. The developer has incorporated the BFS scheduler, by Con Kolivas. By replacing CFS with BFS, the performance boost and latency decreases is said to be HUGE; contrary to the petty retort by Ingo Molnar, to which I linked. While both Cyanogen Mod and BFS are still actively developed, IMO, they do wonders to validate Google's approach. First and foremost, is the fact it runs Linux, which is freely available and heavily developed. Secondly is the fact, both Linux and Android are open source which allows for such pairing and experimentation. I fully expect both camps will be richly rewarded from shared cooperation.

"MotoBlur"?

[johndiii]

Why name your UI innovation in a way that suggest that it makes things less clear? This looks like an interesting phone, but that seems to me to be a weird name for a UI. Also, I'd prefer to sacrifice the keyboard for a thinner profile, given that it has at least as good a screen keyboard implementation as the iPhone.

Re:"MotoBlur"?

[schon]

Why name your UI innovation in a way that suggest that it makes things less clear?

How is that any worse than naming something that displays high-definition video as "blur-ay"?

Re:"MotoBlur"?

[dbcad7]

You have two camps .. We have the people who complain about all the Android phones that don't have a physical keyboard, so every phone that doesn't have one they say "fail" .. but then we have the people who realize that the touch screen keyboards are pretty good and it makes the phone bulky and say "fail"... I agree with you about the "blur" being a bad name.. I think it's really more about the integrated facebook/twitter/email/messaging system which is nice and everything, and the blurring of communications .. yeah I get it, but to define your whole UI with the name that has a negative connotation is asking for trouble when the fanboy critics start to tear into it.. you know they are going to make them regret that name.

Re:"MotoBlur"?

[NoobixCube]

The "blur" might be referring to speed. Like how some things are so fast all you see is a blur.

Re:"MotoBlur"?

[escay]

The blur is to mean that it blurs the lines between different social networks and brings them all under one hood. although in reverse it sounds like 'rule bottom', which is exactly where this phone's ending up.

Motorola's great return?

[MrCrassic]

I can't say I'm surprised. After the RAZR fad passed and the Q flopped, Motorola had very few alternatives to turn to; Windows Mobile wasn't one of them. This could be their great restart, and I'd really like to see them make a strong comeback into the market.

Maybe they could set another first and make the Android flip-phone (like they did with the MPX200)...?

Re:Motorola's great return?

[Churla]

I don't know about calling the RAZR a "fad that passed". That series of phones, in my experience at least, are very solid phones. Also moderately customizable if you want to get into reflashing them. I still have a V3i I keep in my desk drawer "just in case" my G1 should fritz out on me.

Re:Motorola's great return?

[glop]

Engadget has a comparison of all the Android devices to date and they all are very similar at the moment. I guess it's good news to some extent as it means the apps don't have to cope with different screen sizes or even different CPUs.
But at the same time, why bother with Dalvik if they were going to all target the same Qualcomm/ARM chip at the same frequency? They could have just used gcj and compiled to ARM...

Hopefully this is going to change and the manufacturers are going to come up with exciting Android handsets. I mean, good enough to get Nokia to lower the price of the N900 would be great!

Re:Motorola's great return?

[drinkypoo]

There are silver linings in the RAZR series, a few phones (V3i and V3x in particular) can be tinkered for FANTASTIC battery life, and they have the largest screens of their cousins that run the same software. With that said: That particular software is total garbage. Most models (my V3i included) don't even support stereo bluetooth audio. I never had to reboot my phone less than once a week, more if I was making frequent use of Java applets. Sometimes the phone would just refuse to transmit any Audio in one direction or the other until a reboot; sometimes the dialer would hang. I now have another moto phone with the same software (W345i I think) from Crackphone, and it is a terrible piece of shit. The keypad is even harder to use properly (i.e. pressing one key at a time) than the RAZR's and the port covers are very hard to remove. The RAZR had none, and it was a problem. All in all, I am planning on the Nokia N900. I think Motorola has forgotten everything they ever knew about making durable hardware and I no longer trust them.

Re:Motorola's great return?

[LWATCDR]

Actually Engadget seems to really like it. I hear that it will be "free" on T-Mobile with a two year contract.
This really good be a great phone. Motorola phones are well made and usually have great call quality. The only thing wrong with them right now is that they tend to be boring.

Re:Motorola's great return?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can have my RAZR when you pry it out of my cold dead hands.

Solid construction, thin profile, simple interface, and it is simply first and foremost a phone. I want nothing more and nothing less from my cellphone.

Re:Motorola's great return?

[Halotron1]

I think the fad slowed down, because eventually everyone that wanted a RAZR had one.
In the slim phone market I think the RAZR really beat the crap out of the competition.

Then like always, you get bored of your current gadget and want a new one.

I had a RAZR and loved it, then my work offered to buy me an iPhone.
The iPhone is cool for listening to music, and facebook, etc. but sometimes I miss the simplicity of having just a really well designed slim phone.

Re:Motorola's great return?

[TheMCP]

I'm with you - this could be a winner. I owned a RAZR - for one night. I bought it at 4pm, hated it so much that I decided within an hour to return it, and took it back the next day. The software sucked. BUT THE HARDWARE WAS AWESOME. It was slim and light and comfortable and felt like it was built like a tank - in fact, it was the most solid feeling cell phone I ever used. Later, I owned the Motorola branded "hip-top" phone using the Danger software... I didn't love the software and eventually replaced it with an iphone, but again, the hardware was awesome and felt really really solid.

The combination of rock-solid Motorola hardware with a great OS and software should make for a really fantastic phone and experience, and I wish them the best.

Re:Motorola's great return?

[GooberToo]

But at the same time, why bother with Dalvik

They are not all targeting the same chips or even CPU.

Android now runs on or is in the process of running on X86 and MIPS. Additionally, alternate ARM-variants (non-Qualcomm CPUs) are also in use for Android phones and devices. With the release of the Android Native Development Kit, you can officially target specific CPUs with native code but it creates additional work and headaches for developers. Not to mention, when the market is upgraded to become NDK aware, applications which use the NDK will only show for those CPUs which are supported. That in turn requires per-CPU releases rather than a single package for all variants. That of course has both its pros and cons.

Ultimately, the NDK is still limited in what it supports. Of course, developers are free to jump the NDK-fence, but that means almost certain application breakage as new Android releases are made available to users. Of course, to some small degree that's true for Dalvik code too - contrary to what Google officially states.

Re:Motorola's great return?

[GooberToo]

I owned a RAZR - for one night.

I'm with you on that. I bought a RAZR because it was strongly recommended to me by co-workers. It was the worst phone I ever owned. The sound quality was horrible and it was plagued with all sorts of oddities. The battery never really fit properly and it would turn it self off from time to time. Navigation would tedious and painful. Settings were all over the phone. Even worse, reception was simply horrible! The only thing nice about the phone was the form factor.

But I have owned other Motorolas before and they were all nice. One Motorola I had years ago, while clunky by todays standards, was by far the best phone I've ever owned...until I got my G1. The Cliq has peaked my interest. If it continues to get good reviews and user reports, it will likely be my next phone purchase.

Re:Motorola's great return?

[mdwh2]

So:

110+ million - passing fad.

20+ million - revolutionary best selling ever number 1 phone.

Is that right?

It's true that Motorola aren't doing as well as they were, but "fad" is misleading (and they were never number 1 overall - that was and still is Nokia).

ho hum

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate Verizon, but it's what works here, so this is another phone I want but can't use.
Thanks for nothing, Motorola.

Motoblur

[gmuslera]

The motodetails were motoblurred in the motoannouncement. Would be interesting to see how it compares in meaningful features with other Android cellphones and from other platforms (iphone, latest blackberry, nokia n900, etc).

Also a social network specifically only for users of their phones starting from that model could not end being a so good idea, specially with already widely used social networks with mobile clients (i.e. facebook) and probably future ones (i would bet that Google wave will have an android, and other smartphones, client, and could shape part of itself to be a social network too). If it gets very popular could pump sales of course, but need to reach critical mass first, and the price to enter could be high.

Re:Motoblur

[Anonymous Coward]

Would be interesting to see how it compares in meaningful features with other Android cellphones and from other platforms (iphone, latest blackberry, nokia n900, etc).

From the image here you can quite clearly see that the Cliq keyboard has an Alt key. However, here you will notice that the N900 on the other hand has a Ctrl key.

The N900 therefore, clearly beats the Cliq on the only count that really matters... vi support. :P

Re:MotoBlur

[itsdapead]

In other words, every Blackberry made in the last three years, at least. A unified messages folder - what a novel idea.

Its not even new on Android: My HTC Hero does all that (Facebook integration in the contacts app, upload photos to Facebook/Flickr direct from the camera app). Bad news is that I got a facebook account mainly to try it out. I already feel dirty...

Re:Motoblur

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, however, bear in mind that on the G1, pressing the trackball while in the terminal, gives you a Ctrl press. This Moto probably has similar functionality.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[SanityInAnarchy]

Well, according to the same site, Firefox is almost 23%.

But in truth, all it reveals is a sadly biased study, one which doesn't reveal its sources -- does it count unpaid deployments? I doubt it. And if you're trying to measure the marketshare of a free operating system by counting the number of people paying for it...

I mean, yes, he was modded troll, but chances are, someone is taking him seriously. So, here's some facts.

Get these on Verizon!!!

[MikeRT]

Attention Google: if you want Android to challenge Apple, you have to get it on Verizon. Verizon is the only company with an infrastructure that can kick AT&T in the teeth.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[teopatl]

There's wide speculation that they have more coming; in fact, I was surprised they didn't announce two products yesterday. The Sholes in particular is supposed to hit big red before the end of the CY.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

Screw Verizon, you would have to redesign the battery to use them on Verizon. Why not sell them unlocked so I can use it on my ATT GSM network and roam worldwide.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[Schwartzboy]

http://androidandme.com/2009/09/news/10-reasons-to-start-saving-for-the-verizon-motorola-sholes-android-phone/ I think the current word on the street is early December?

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[mmacdona86]

Unfortunately, Google's mission "Don't be evil" fundamentally conflicts with Verizon's "Be evil".

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Screw Verizon... I want it on Sprint!

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[LWATCDR]

Um Verizon could have them.
If Verizon gets them they will.
1. Limit BlueTooth functions.
2. Put their own UI on them.
3. Remove wifi.
4. Force you to use the new Verizon app store.
5. have some really creepy guy always following around.
Sprint has the Pre and the new Pixie from Palm. My wife has a Pre and loves it. PS we get really good service and Sprint has never crippled their phones.
Sprint is getting the HTC Hero with Android and the Samsung InstinctQ with Android.
TMobile has a bunch of Android phones.
And I hear AT&T is getting some Android phones and they already have the Nokia E71 for the S60 fans and the of course the iPhone.

If you really like Verizon just wait a bit. I hear they are going to get the Pre around May....

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

Sorry, Redesign the radio. Preview, preview preview then post

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[poetmatt]

Say what? There's already one coming: (gizmodo link) in a month .

Open handset alliance has members of basically every phone provider, so don't think that a singular google phone will, nor will have to, take over the iphone. They'll simply have one to fit every person's preference, unlike the iphone.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

You would have to redesign the battery on an operating system? I never realized that by upgrading a battery on my laptop I'd have to buy a redesigned version of Windows XP (which is essentially what you're saying here).

Forget GSM. It's old and outdated. I don't have any statistics, but I bet a huge portion of Verizons customers don't travel to other countries and don't really give a crap about interoperability. Not to mention they could design it to work with both (like RIM does with some of their blackberries).

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[drinkypoo]

Verizon has way poorer coverage than AT&T in California, the most populous state in the Union. You can't really blame AT&T for serving the most important markets first.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

Might be old and outdated but it is worldwide and don't you think users of high-end smartphones are more likely to travel than standard everyday users?

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[FiloEleven]

Agreed. Google also needs to buckle down and make their own damn hardware. The OS is nice, the alliance is nice, but the fact that different phones all support different features of the OS leads to market confusion. If Google made a smartphone, their brand alone (sitting at the forefront, not a footnote to Motorola) would get a lot of people interested. My experience leads me to believe that they'd do a good job with the hardware interface, even if it just ended up being an iClone.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[Jared555]

It depends.... Is that high-end smartphone free*?

*2 year contract, $50 mail in rebate, $300 early termination fee, and background check required. Please sign here.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[sycorob]

Has anybody in the Bay Area been on AT&T both before the iPhone, and after? How did the quality of the network change?

My point is, people keep claiming that the iPhone is beating the hell out of AT&T's network, especially the data service. As a long-time Verizon customer, I love the service, and I'm curious whether a really solid smartphone would kill Verizon too.

I don't remember hearing constant bitching about AT&T's network before the iPhone became widely popular. Just sayin'

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Living in California myself, I disagree. I find Verizon's service better wrt dropped calls, etc.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[j_kenpo]

I use an Android device on Verizon now (HTC Touch/XV6900). Its fine for the built in Google apps, but the Android Marketplace has thousands of apps that were obviously designed for 1 device, the G1. with all the screen clipping issues and resolution issues, most of these apps are just plain junk. And if they ran it on Verizon, I'm sure Verizon would do all those great things they are know for, such as locking down the GPS functionality to only work with VZNavigator. Android has the feel of a cobbled together imitation iPhone. While its better than Windows Mobile, and iPhone killer it aint.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[mrjohnson]

Uhm, Sprint is getting the HTC Hero (also Android) which is comparable to this Motorola model.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[mrjohnson]

Oh, no it was horrible. I remember getting dropped calls about every 5 minutes when trying to call home. That was a couple years before the first iPhone hit San Francisco.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[iron-kurton]

I can tell you I was on AT&T before it was even called Cingular. The quality of the network, especially voice, has reduced dramatically since the iPhone was introduced. A particular annoyance is the amount of dropped calls I have been experiencing, and that happened right around the time they stopped airing those funny "Tired of dropped calls?" commercials, which I think coincides with the iPhone release date (can anyone back me up on that?) i used all sorts of phones: RAZR, Samsung flip phone, Q, and iPhone, and it was the same across the board

The good news is, the quality of my Apple stock went up 50% since the introduction of iPhone...

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

You said:

I use an Android device on Verizon now (HTC Touch/XV6900).

Then you said:

the Android Marketplace has thousands of apps that were obviously designed for 1 device, the G1.

And your brilliant conclusion was:

Android has the feel of a cobbled together imitation iPhone.

You're an idiot.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[drinkypoo]

We could swap anecdotes all day. Every time I've gone anywhere questionable with anyone who had verizon while I still had AT&T (I have a cracphone now) if one of us had signal it was me.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[GooberToo]

Attention! Verizon has already announced at least one Android phone will be available this year. Leaks suggest Verizon will have one to three phones on network, this year. If only one shows this year, expect more Android offerings on Verizon from the first and second quarter of next year.

Verizon has been begging Apple for a piece of the iPhone pie for a while now. Each time they get the middle finger from Apple. Android is thought to be Verizon's F-U reply. Most are expecting Verizon to push Android very hard this holiday season.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[GooberToo]

Most definitely a troll post!

Verizon has publicly stated they are not nuke the phone's capabilities in any way! Remember, Verizon wants Android to directly compete with AT&T/iPhone. They can't do that if they start nuking features, let alone features every other Android phone on every other network will have.

Put their own UI on them.

And for the record, that's not a bad think. Android is specifically designed to allow for that. Some carriers have plans to brand their phones via their own custom interfaces allowing them to better address niche markets. So rather than the iPhone's one interface fits all, you'll see a variety of interfaces on Android. This is already true. There are already at least two main Android interfaces. One is from Google. One is from HTC.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but innovative and useful phones are *banned* from the VerizonWorthless(tm) network. At MINIMUM you won't see Android or OpenMoko phones until they can figure out how to lobotomize them, despite being open-source devices.

Just waiting for my indentured servitude to VZWorthless to end, and I'm going back to TracFone.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[ShakaUVM]

>>Unfortunately, Google's mission "Don't be evil" fundamentally conflicts with Verizon's "Be evil".

Very true.

But as Churchill famously said, "Verizon is the worst cell phone carrier in America, except for all the others."

When I first got a cell phone in the 90s, I was paying $40ish a month for service. Now it's up to $120 a month for around double the minutes (but no roaming charges, I guess) and two lines (my wife and I share a pool of minutes). If I were to make use of Verizon's 2-for-1 blackberry offer (still paying $80 or so for the second blackberry, since they charge sales tax on the "free" one, somehow), it would go up to $180/month, or $210/month with tethering.

And, oh yeah, my first phone had free tethering through Verizon as well (it wasn't supposed to be free, I suppose, but it was).

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[Degrees]

Well... the other choice is AT&T, who's motto is "We had the original monopoly on evil. For the best at evil, your only choice is AT&T!" ;-)

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[dbcad7]

OK.. Google designed the Android platform, and have gotten handset manufacturers to use it.. But it is up to Verizon, Sprint, and AT&T to get their heads out of their ass and decide to carry them.. Sprint will be soon, and Verizon is also coming down the pipeline (again with Motorola).. And AT&T is also supposedly going to as well.. But once again.. People keep saying.. "Google needs to do this".. "Android needs to do that".. "Why doesn't Motorola do.."" ... IT"S THE CARRIERS WHO DECIDE WHAT THEY SELL, NOT THE MANUFACTURERS... If the only thing available is Verizon, it might be good to write the some letters.. Sounds pointless, but their support people, and their sales people.. they all want cool things to offer as well.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[dbcad7]

While I applaud your ability to get Android on your phone, Your experience is hardly representative of the Android Market, or Android.. If I manage to install OSX onto a netbook, and then say that OSX is a cobbled together imitation of Windows it makes as much sense.

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[LWATCDR]

Troll? Maybe but Verizon pretty much does trash features on their phones and has stated in the past that it removed bluetooth profiles and wifi for "security" and "stability" reasons.

If Verizon really wanted a Android phone then why don't they have one? T-Mobile has had them for a while now and Sprint has announced at least one is coming.
So where are they?

Re:Get these on Verizon!!!

[mjwx]

Attention Google: if you want Android to challenge Apple, you have to get it on Verizon. Verizon is the only company with an infrastructure that can kick AT&T in the teeth.

This is a US only issue, Google are looking at the entire world. Android is not doing badly in the US (1 million G1's sold in the first six months) but mobile (cellular) networks are better built and better regulated in the rest of the world which is why Australia and Europe have all four Android phones whilst the US has just released it's second.

Here is a 3G coverage map of the world and 21 MB PDF of the same map. Brown in 2G and yellow is 3G, Europe and Australia have greater coverage of 3G then the US. Even Indonesia and Malaysia have better coverage and lets not even look at Japan or Korea.

Oh great...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Motorola has made some of the worst phones (UI, featureset, bugs) I have ever owned. I'm sure they're going to find a way to destroy Andriod's potential.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Anonymous Coward]

But in truth, all it reveals is a sadly biased study, one which doesn't reveal its sources

And yet in the true fosstard hypocritical manner, I've seen that same site posted many times to point out how IE's market share is declining. I guess one can't really expect you neckbeards to be consistent though. If the source says anything negative against the Loonix ideology it must be biased and wrong, but when the same site shows something negative about the market share of a Microsoft product it is unquestionably posted everywhere to show how Micro$haft is dying!

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Anonymous Coward]

There are lot's of people taking him seriously, a fuckton of people if I may say so. See http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/ thats' where he got that.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Desler]

But in truth, all it reveals is a sadly biased study, one which doesn't reveal its sources

So, here's some facts [linuxtoday.com].

LOL. It's funny how you claim that the Net Applications site is wrong because it's a "biased study, one which doesn't reveal its sources" and yet you post a link to a linuxtoday article that just has a bunch of people posting their random speculation with no sources and yet that's where you get "facts".

I think it's great

[Maury Markowitz]

Seems like an interesting idea to me. There's no point attacking the iPhone head on, and this niche seems to be a good one to pick up. I know I wish my phone had better notification, and if it looked cool too, even better.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Anonymous Coward]

sending people to a linux site for linux marketing is no way to convince people without bias.

Find a third party willing to speak up for it and we will listen.

Muted reaction... Duh.

[Andy Dodd]

There's a "muted reaction" to these for the same reason Android device adoption has been disappointing.

Tying yourself to one of the smallest two of the "big four" wireless carriers in the United States (don't know if T-Mo or Sprint is smaller) is NOT a smart way to gain widespread adoption.

I would love to give an Android phone a chance for my next phone, but right now it's looking like my next phone (which will replace my current AT&T Tilt) will be AT&T's next WinMo-based HTC device. T-Mobile is NOT an option in my area, they have zero coverage from my workplace/apartment to about 10-15 miles down the highway. (For whatever reason, 75% of the time their roaming agreement with AT&T is nonfunctional in my area.)

Single stream?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't running multiple streams, one for each task, be faster? Be ashamed, Motorola... it's CS basics, really.

very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[alen]

Nice thing about the new Android phones is that developers are writing apps with work together with other apps. Almost impossible on the iPhone unless Steve Jobs rids himself of his total control fixation. Give it 2 years or so for this tech to mature some more, get more apps out there and have HTC and others build phones with a lot of storage like Apple does and i'll be junking my iphone 3GS come 2011 when my contract expires.

iPhone is nice even for all it's shortcomings, but Apple's total control fixation is going to hurt it in the long run and leave it as a niche device only for the cult of steve fanboys

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[Maury Markowitz]

> Give it 2 years or so for this tech to mature some more, get more apps out there and have
> HTC and others build phones with a lot of storage like Apple does and i'll be junking my iphone
> 3GS come 2011 when my contract expires.

Apple is adding features much more quickly than any of the other providers. Yes, it's true, some of those should have been in the first version. But that's besides the point, the issue is the velocity of change.

So the question is whether or not you think the Android platform's developers will create all this goodness before the iPhone developers do. Everything I can see suggests the iPhone market is going to win any sort of head-to-head "app off", especially if there's another 15 to 20 million handsets out there driving its development.

Maury

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[Maury Markowitz]

To clarify that last statement: you talked about a 2 year window, and during the last 2.x years they sold 30 million, so in another 2 I think 15 to 20 million is fair.

So you're looking at a market of 50 million iPhones. That's a LOT of developer interest, both outside Apple and within. If inter-app programming actually adds value (debatable IMHO) then there's every reason to believe Apple can add it within that time frame, and every reason to believe the 3rd party developers would have put it to considerably wider use through sheer numbers alone.

Maury

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[metamatic]

iPhone is nice even for all it's shortcomings, but Apple's total control fixation is going to hurt it in the long run and leave it as a niche device only for the cult of steve fanboys

The sad thing is, Apple is repeating exactly the same mistakes it made in 1984/85.

Back then, Philips and Sony came to Apple and asked about licensing MacOS. Jean-Louis Gassee told Jobs that Apple was so far ahead, the others would never catch up. So they kept an ironclad control over the Mac OS. And the entire rest of the industry went with DOS, and then Windows... and even though both were inferior, with Apple vs the entire rest of the industry, the end result was inevitable, and Mac OS became a tiny niche product.

Apple may be able to beat RIM at the smartphone game, but they'll never beat RIM, Nokia, Motorola, HTC, Samsung and Sony together, not in the long run. The iPhone will become the niche, and Android will become the 90%.

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[Anonymous Coward]

have HTC and others build phones with a lot of storage like Apple does and i'll be junking my iphone 3GS

HTC already includes a MicroSDHC slot with capacity of up to 32GB available--though 16GB cards are more reasonably priced. If a firmware update makes it possible, future SDXC 64GB cards may also eventually work with HTC phones. That is, without discarding hardware (iPhones, iPods, etc that are not memory upgradable), but simply by replacing a card.

Products branded by how much internal memory they have (i.e. iPhone 16GB) will eventually become a somewhat comical thing of the past. It makes more sense to store only operating system files on internal memory, while everything else is on a removable, highly-accessible, standard-compliant MicroSDHC card. Hell, put all your music on your MicroSDHC card and swap it between your HTC Fuze phone and your Sanza Fuze mp3 player if you like.

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is adding features much more quickly than any of the other providers. Yes, it's true, some of those should have been in the first version. But that's besides the point, the issue is the velocity of change.

Uhh, SenseUI is a brand new UI developed by HTC and released within the past 6 months. Words more dramatic people than I have used include: "revolutionary", "dreamy", "masterpiece", and so on. Maybe you're just not paying attention to the other side of the competition?

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[indiechild]

Wow, how did you get modded insightful?

What's wrong with the iPhone being a niche market, or Macs being a niche market for that matter? It's overall profits that matter to Apple, not having a majority marketshare.

Licensing Mac OS or iPhone OS X to others would spell the death of the company -- not to mention, it would create crappy, low-quality clones. Apple is a hardware and systems integration company, and that's where they make the majority of their money.

And why on earth should Apple have to try to beat RIM, Nokia, Motorola, HTC, Samsung and Sony together?

You're thinking with the Microsoft/Walmart business mindset. Quantity trumps quality.
That's not how Apple thinks. Now, one can argue which is more effective, but nowadays Apple is doing very well by any standards.

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[indiechild]

You can't expect people to listen to what you're saying when you use the terms "cult" and "steve fanboys".

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[tholomyes]

Apple may be able to beat RIM at the smartphone game, but they'll never beat RIM, Nokia, Motorola, HTC, Samsung and Sony together, not in the long run. The iPhone will become the niche, and Android will become the 90%.

By this logic, why isn't Windows Mobile already the undisputed champion in this arena?

Re:very nice, iPhone's days may be numbered

[metamatic]

Well, you also have to make sure your competing OS doesn't completely suck from both a UI and a technical standpoint, and that you're not hated and/or distrusted by every hardware manufacturer who might want to ship it.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[SanityInAnarchy]

I've seen that same site posted many times to point out how IE's market share is declining.

And yet, it's the same site you used. How's that hypocritical?

If the source says anything negative against the Loonix ideology it must be biased and wrong, but when the same site shows something negative about the market share of a Microsoft product it is unquestionably posted everywhere to show how Micro$haft is dying!

The point wasn't that it was unquestionable -- though I think you'll find similar results elsewhere.

The point is that even if it were true, it doesn't bother me a lot -- Firefox is proof that we're doing ok, and if IE dies, I can write web services without thinking about Windows anymore. And since it's clearly not true, the whole argument implodes anyway.

Reuters never said muted LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

I read the Reuters article and they said modest, they also said it made Motorola's shares go up to $8 and they're expecting it to go up to $10. Someone at /. doesn't like Motorola so they misquoted the article? LOL

PLease tell me...

[hoggoth]

Slashdot, it is Friday and I am tired. I can't bring myself to read the article, or even the summary.
Please tell me if we are loving this or hating this so I can feel appropriately without any effort.

It's about time...

[gillbates]

Disclaimer: I work for Motorola. I'm giving up mod points to post this, as I think some people would consider it a conflict of interest if they knew.

That said, I've been long awaiting this change. I like the feature set - it approaches a consumer class camera (5 MP, 24 Hz video). It looks very functional, very usable. I'm not usually one to get excited about phones, but this looks quite good.

I've heard a lot of people bemoan the proprietary state of cellphone systems. Well, here's your chance to buy a Linux based phone, and show the manufacturers what you *really* want.

Re:It's about time...

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Sounds good. I'd like to do that, with a few qualifications. I need to be able to buy an unlocked one for ~ $300 and be able to modify the OS and applications on it. It has all of the other qualifications.

Do you know if they'll provide an unlocked one?

Re:It's about time...

[InlawBiker]

The stand-alone version is $400 from what I understand. Seems pretty reasonable.

Re:It's about time...

[Anonymous Coward]

it approaches a consumer class camera (5 MP, 24 Hz video)

Like the phone I had years ago then? The previous generation of phones was 8.1 megapixels and current ones are 12 megapixels.

Mind you, if it takes a picture when you press the button instead of focussing for 5 seconds that would be a big improvement.

Re:It's about time...

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Reasonable, yes. Awesome, no.

Re:It's about time...

[mrjohnson]

It's going to TMobile... again. I think that'll limit uptake quite a bit. The HTC Magic uses the same processor and a bit less storage. Where's the beef?

I like that it has a real keyboard but I have strong reservations about giving all my account details away. Plus, I like that the services are separate. It solves the whole Mom-saw-my-drunken-photo problem.

I'm underwhelmed by this announcement...

Re:It's about time...

[paulsnx2]

Perhaps he should have said "approaches a usable resolution..."

Still, the point is valid. A 1.2 MP camera is really useless. 5 MP is pretty reasonable.

Re:It's about time...

[Hurricane78]

Well, I hope you (Motorola) can put a bit of fire below Nokia's and Samsung's asses again... you know, for a better market. :)

Did you hear someone scream something like "eye foam"?
No?
Me neither. ;)

Re:It's about time...

[AmiMoJo]

I am quite interested in this phone now. I have been considering an iPhone, but they are still pretty expensive and I don't like the idea of having to install iTunes and not being able to use SD cards to expand the storage, or even replace the battery easily.

Android is very attractive because it seems to be more open than the iPhone OS and Google allow apps that Apple reject, but until now all of the available Android phones have been pretty average. The iPhone 3GS has a pretty good camera, so let's hope this one rivals it. TFA is a bit light on detail but I would assume/hope the phone has wifi and an SD card slot. Maybe it even charges from a mini-USB cable and I guess like all Motorola phones the battery is removable. The only question then is the price.

Re:It's about time...

[Anonymous Coward]

I *really* want this phone on the network with the best coverage where I live. Happens to be Verizon Wireless's CDMA network. Calls are the most important feature to me so getting the other stuff would just be bonus. I want it and will pay for it, but only if the phones are available without me switching companies.

Re:It's about time...

[Anonymous Coward]

I appreciate input from one in the know in the trenches. I'd like to buy a full-featured Linux phone that I could take lots of places and to which I could add apps, etc.

Would you be willing to offer an assessment between Motorola's Android-based Cliq with the Nokia Maemo-based N900?

TIA

Re:It's about time...

[itsdapead]

Still, the point is valid. A 1.2 MP camera is really useless. 5 MP is pretty reasonable.

Er, no. Any camera with a lens the size of a pinhead, no flash (or a feeble LED flash) and lousy ergonomics that make it hard to hold the camera steady while pressing the shutter is useless. Adding pixels doesn't help - smaller pixels = less photons hitting each pixel = lower sensitivity = more noise and slow shutter speed = blurry and/or underexposed photos. Plus, the resulting photos are getting too big to send quickly over the mobile network.

The megapixel wars on camera phones is just dumb: much better to stick at 1-2 megapixels and crank up the sensitivity so people can take shake-free snapshots indoors.

A standard 6"x4" snapshot at 150dpi is about 0.5 megapixels.

Sigh! - kids today! Late last century I paid over £1000 for one of these and back then we were pretty happy with the 1.4 megapixel results. Of course, it had a half-decent lens.

Re:It's about time...

[itsdapead]

don't like the idea of having to install iTunes

With Android you'll have the choice of installing a proprietary sync app (e.g. HTC Sync - only Windows/Outlook users need apply) or opening a Google account instead. OK, you can use USB disk mode to transfer music and photos, but not sync contacts and calendars.

To be fair, Google is a good solution, but then iTunes is a good media player, too.

Re:It's about time...

[mrchaotica]

You forgot to mention one big feature all these camera phones are still missing: optical zoom!

Re:It's about time...

[itsdapead]

You forgot to mention one big feature all these camera phones are still missing: optical zoom!

While you're at it, why not a flash shoe, filter ring, tripod mount, cable release, SLR viewfinder and a massive phallus-substitute telephoto? And a slave to carry it all for you.

Alternatively, use a camera for any half-serious photography (its not as if you can't get a camera the size of a deck of cards with a 12x optical zoom these days) and reserve your phonecam for capturing blurry photos of drunken friends and insurance snaps of the ensuing car wreck, as nature intended.

(Android's stunt with scanning barcodes and looking them up on Google is quite fun, too...)

Re:It's about time...

[GooberToo]

crank up the sensitivity so people can take shake-free snapshots

For what its worth, there is a free and pro version of an Android application called Snap Photo which uses the device's accelerometers to ensure the camera is stable before its snaps the picture. If you don't have stable hands it can take annoyingly long to take a picture but the quality is notably better without undo hand-shake messing with photo quality. But you're right, there wouldn't be near the problem if the shutter speed was faster.

I also agree the Mp race is dumb. I believe many of the camera makers are finally starting to agree too. Many seem to working hard to up photo quality on even lower Mp count cameras.

Don't forget Android developers desperately need your support. Go buy an application today. Support from your wallet ensures continued growth for developers and a richer application base. Pirating applications is seriously hurting developers.

Re:It's about time...

[AmiMoJo]

Google is more than acceptable for syncing since not only do I use their apps anyway, but they are widely compatible with different data formats. Most importantly, I would not have to install the bloatfest that is iTunes.

That's my main objection really. iTunes is just so big now... Installing it also installs Quicktime, Bonjour, Apple Mobile Device drivers/service/helper, iTunes Helper, Quicktime tray icon, Apple DNS resolver (wtf?), Apple Updater program and service as well as a load of other crap like the OS X font rendering system and fonts (so that iTunes text looks the same on Mac OS and Windows), Core Rendering and various other stuff. After all that it doesn't even support Windows codecs, so can't play anything other than AAC and MP3 without converting the files first.

Why you can't just use USB disk mode to load files on to the iPhone I don't know. Probably the same reason it doesn't have an SD card slot. Despite that I still want one, but Android is looking like a better bet now.

Re:It's about time...

[mrchaotica]

Personally, I see no reason why these multifunction devices can't be improved to the point where they completely supplant "deck of cards"-size point-and-shoot cameras. Sure, they'll never replace SLRs, but I for one would love to carry around one "deck of cards" instead of two.

Re:It's about time...

[CrashNBrn]

I believe you are mixing up "DPI" with PPI. See DPI vs PPI
A 6x4" JPEG will be 72 DPI (and 72 PPI)
To get a 6x4" 150 DPI printable picture without quality loss you would need a 12x8" image..
AND if you wanted larger prints, without quality loss, then you need larger images to start with. Obviously though there is little need for the 2000x3000 px sized images that are floating about. And if one is that concerned about quality they'd be using a camera that can handle RAW.

Re:It's about time...

[itsdapead]

I believe you are mixing up "DPI" with PPI.

No, I just forgot to proof-read my own post - please accept a pedant point :-) Actually, although I'd accept PPI as the better term, in reality, the terms are used inconsistently and, anyway, the distinction depends entirely on the display or printing technology being discussed.

A 6x4" JPEG* will be 72 DPI (and 72 PPI)

Now you're getting mixed up: PPI/DPI isn't defined until you choose the physical size of a print. A JPEG* will be x pixels wide and y pixels high. If you display it or print it out at a physical size of W" x H" the PPI will be x/W - assuming the display/printer is capable of reproducing that. Only if the image came from, e.g. a scanner, and had a well-defined "original size" will the PPI value in the file mean anything. Otherwise, either the camera or the software will omit insert the customary default of 72ppi.

72 PPI is an arbitrary value for the "resolution***" of a computer screen, so that 1 pixel = 1 Postscript** point. Once upon a time, all Apple Mac screens were calibrated to 72 actual pixels per physical inch of screen. These days, its rather higher and depends on the size of the screen (duh!).

I chose 6"x4" because that was the traditional print size for old fangled chemical snapshots. I chose 150ppi because, in my experience, that's just enough to satisfy non-photographers, and about the point at which you should start worrying about the quality of your lens. A 6"x4" image at 150ppi is 900x600 pixels = 0.54 megapixels. 2 megapixels is enough for 300dpi, which matches the resolution of most cheap dedicated photo printers.

Of course, you can print/display any image at any size you like - whether its acceptable depends on the subject matter (oh, and little things like focus, exposure, camera shake and composition which have nothing to do with megapixels). (*while we're stickling, JPEG is not an image file format, its a compression standard: ".jpg" files are either in JFIF or EXIF format). (** which is not the same as a printers point - and you wonder why people use imprecise language?) (*** don't even start on what "resolution" actually means in optics as opposed to computer specs!)

Re:It's about time...

[itsdapead]

Personally, I see no reason why these multifunction devices can't be improved to the point where they completely supplant "deck of cards"-size point-and-shoot cameras.

That's probably why such cameras are now, increasingly, packing 12x zoom lenses - to distinguish them from phones. Those lenses are pretty amazing, but still too heavy and delicate to carry around in your shirt pocket every work day. OTOH, the typical phone is too thin and light to hold steady.

Don't get me wrong - having a camera in a phone is a great idea, for those times when you don't have a proper camera. However, even "proper" cameras are going overboard on the megapixels these days. No point having 10MP if you have to downsample to 2MP just to get rid of the artefacts...

Re:It's about time...

[CrashNBrn]

I know I run into (DPI) idiocy with OCR and PDF's all the time when trying to get images to fit properly without the image being an insane pixel H x W size. And far too many images being distributed online now are so large that you'd need that new AMD graphic card and 6 monitors to display them "full screen"!

Re:It's about time...

[g00ey]

If they released a RAZR phone with Android I would buy it for sure. I think this phone is ugly, but that's my opinion.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[SanityInAnarchy]

Find a third party willing to speak up for it and we will listen.

The site I linked to did cite sources, including zdnet. Unbiased enough?

The larger problem here is that there are some things which it's pretty much impossible to be both informed and unbiased about. For example, it's pretty hard to be aware of the situation of AIDS in Africa without being either a complete religious moron, or being appalled at the Pope telling people that condoms are not the answer. There really isn't a middle ground there.

However, we can't even begin to control for bias without at least citing sources.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just a few links on Windows7 marketshare:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/windows-7-market-share.aspx?qprid=42&qpcustom=Windows+7&sample=30

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43824/140/

http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-09-02-024-35-NW-MR

Windows7 is estimated at 1.3%

Linux marketshare is estimated between 0.6% and 2%
Probably Linux struggles to reach single digit.

muted

[DarthVain]

Translation: "No one gives a shit".

keyboard looks like crap

[Spazmania]

How am I gonna do ssh on that? It doesn't even have number keys. It's everything that's wrong about the Blackberry plus the extra reliability issues from moving parts.

Re:keyboard looks like crap

[Anonymous Coward]

On the bright side, there is no problem sshing *into* your phone and do all that stuff you wanted to do using full size keyboard.

Interesting..

[mewsenews]

I'm a bit of a Motorola fan, I've used their cell phones for years, but their problem for a long time has been that they produce solid hardware and total crap software.

So now we'll have great Moto hardware with wonderful Google software -- perfect world, right? Except Motorola decides to go and add "MotoBlur" to the Android software, and who knows how much of a train wreck that will be.

Anyways, I'll very much be looking forward to reviews of these devices.

Re:Interesting..

[Rennt]

You might have to jailbreak it first, but I'm sure you'll be able to reflash it with the standard Android firmware. Or even better - something like cyanogenmod, now with Brain Fuck Scheduler!

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest condoms are not the answer, at least in Africa. Condoms work in developed countries because people are willing to use condoms. In Africa most just don't care. Hell some of them don't know the relationship beetwen sex and babies (I'm not joking, for some tribes women get pregnant because of a spirit or some shit like that)

Ah btw, just pondering all the results from various sources Win7 beats Linux by a fairly consistent margin.

Stream

[Anonymous Coward]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Motorola's great return? - Not likely...

[DomNF15]

The Razr was an innovative phone when it was released, no one else had a phone like it (similar to the iPhone when it was released). It was copied and mimicked ad-nauseam by a number of cell phone manufacturers. Motorola's problem is that they rode the Razr wave all the way back to the beach before they refocused any attention on R&D and their upcoming product portfolio. I worked for Moto Mobile Devices for 4 years, and towards the end, all the big wigs were telling us we had nothing in our 3G GSM product pipeline, and that's when I made the decision to leave. The Cliq, while seemingly a nice device that appears to at least somewhat compete with the iPhone, is by no means groundbreaking. It may help Motorola to start selling cell phones again, but I doubt it will bring them anywhere near the level of success enjoyed during the Razr centric times. To see them back on top, Motorola will have to continue delivering phones that best the Cliq and drive the market.

N900 or this one?

[B5_geek]

I am looking for a new phone because my existing HTC smartphone (Win based) is crap and doesn't run putty. I need to be able to ssh into my linux servers and do remote work/maintenance on them. I would like to be able to run the CLI tools (irssi, mc, etc..)

I also need the following: Gmail contact/calender sync. (2-way), wifi VoIP

Nice to have: Gtalk and/or Skype
What phone should I get? The Nokia N900, this one, or anything else? I would even be willing to 'give-up' cell-phone usage in exchange for excellent wifi VoIP.

Re:N900 or this one?

[Tyr_7BE]

Once you're ssh'd in, wouldn't you have those CLI tools available?

With the exception of the CLI tools, sounds like you're looking for one of the new blackberries. I use mine to ssh into my servers all the time, and it does pretty much everything else on your list. I've even done some basic vim over ssh, although at that point it's worth it to switch to a laptop.

Re:N900 or this one?

[Xtifr]

I dunno, the keyboard on this one looks really crappy compared to the G1, which is what I have, and even with the G1 and ConnectBot, vi can be a bit awkward. If ssh support is really important, I would probably look at the HTC android phones or the N900 before this, but my opinion is mostly based on photographic evidence, so if anyone has hands-on evidence that contradicts my speculation, you should probably believe them over me.

Gmail, Google calendar, and GTalk are (of course) well-supported on Android. Dunno about VOIP (I barely use the phone features as it is).

Re:N900 or this one?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to run abiword and ssh into your network to reconfabulate your kernelator with xterm you need the N900. The android phones don't look like they have the same openness that maemo devices have had (can't put HTC Sense on a Tmo GoogleFone without jailbreaking it). Of course, the telcos haven't gotten the grubby hands on the N900 yet.

MotoBlur

[Bodero]

MotoBlur:

Now everything is where you want it - in one place, on tap. Your friends, pics, emails, messages, and Facebook(TM), MySpace and Twitter happenings. Motorola CLIQ is the first phone to come with MOTOBLUR, the only service that can sync them all, with continuous updates and back ups. There are no logins or apps to open, and your data's always safe. Talk about socialized.

In other words, every Blackberry made in the last three years, at least. A unified messages folder - what a novel idea.

Re:Motorola's great return? - Not likely...

[MrCrassic]

I completely agree. I always felt that every new Motorola phone after the RAZR was...a derivative of the RAZR (or something like it). I wish that they had spent more time improving the firmware on these devices, or, at the very least, spending time on making other phones people would actually want.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[Anonymous Coward]

The site I linked to did cite sources, including zdnet. Unbiased enough?

No LinuxToday is not "unbiased enough". Secondly, the cited sources were just ZDNet speculation not any concrete facts. So basically you have Net Applications that takes in real world data to make their usage statistics while LinuxToday just makes shit up based on years old speculations.

Any word on battery life?

[JSBiff]

One of the common complaints about the G1 was that, while people liked the phone, they decided the battery life was just too short to be useful. How does the cliq fair in this department? You can have great features, but if the battery dies in 2 or 3 hours, no one will care.

Also, IIRC, another common complaint was no standard headset jack (I guess you could use a headset, but it had to plug in through USB port or some proprietary port or something, or else use BlueTooth). Did Moto learn from the HTC mistakes, and include the headset jack?

Re:Any word on battery life?

[GooberToo]

One of the common complaints about the G1 was that, while people liked the phone, they decided the battery life was just too short to be useful. How does the cliq fair in this department? You can have great features, but if the battery dies in 2 or 3 hours, no one will care.

This is a myth and absolutely not true. It has not been true since Android 1.5 was released. Battery life is fine for all available Android phones. If the G1 has a battery life too short, then so does the iPhone. If you run the G1 with an iPhone-like load, the G1 will meet or beat the iPhone.

The problem with the G1 is completely unrealistic user expectations combined with early (pre-cupcake) battery life issues. It is simply not realistic to obtain facebook, twitter, weather, email, text message and mms updates, on 3G and/or WIFI, every every couple of minutes on any smart phone and expect it to last more than a day. No smart phone with capabilities on par with the iPhone or Android can do that. Period. On the other hand, if you want to be more reasonable and allow for far more spurious updates and synchronization, battery life is drastically improved.

As I've been working hard to dispel the poor G1 battery life myth, there is also an application which drastically helps here too. Its WiSyncPlus.

Simply put, anyone who is experiencing poor battery life on a G1 has one or more of the following problems: bad battery, bad applications (some of the more popular qualify here), poor application configuration, poor synchronization configuration. Applications which are especially bad at draining battery life are ShopSavvy, Locale, and various popular weather applications, but there are plenty of others too. And along these lines, users themselves bare a lot of the problems. Do you really need to check weather every five minutes? 99.99% of the time, absolutely not! Refreshing weather once every several hours, or maybe one or twice a day is more than plenty for most.

Likewise, applications like Locale and ShopSavvy constantly detect and report your location to third parties, generally without your permission. And they constantly do so at the expense of your battery life. Now you know why your WIFI is constantly turned on and off. Any application which makes use of SkyHook is going to track your location and drain your battery. Also applications which make use of Ad Mob are also likely to inflict poor battery life on your.

Long story short, there is no excuse to complain about poor battery life on a G1 or any other Android phone. You just need to take responsibility for the applications you install and be reasonable of what you demand your phone to do on your behalf. Expecting it to run (not sleeping) 24x7 on a battery is not reasonable by any measure, regardless of the device in question.

Re:Any word on battery life?

[TheABomb]

It is simply not realistic to obtain facebook, twitter, weather, email, text message and mms updates, on 3G and/or WIFI, every every couple of minutes on any smart phone and expect it to last more than a day.

If you're so ego-obsessed that your tweeting sessions go on for more than a day without sleeping, the battery life of your phone is the least of your worries.

Re:Any word on battery life?

[mrjohnson]

Agreed. The battery issue is vastly overblown.

My original one lasted a couple days with regular use, talking all my push gmail, gtalk and everything else.

That's not that bad. I eventually bought a third party upgrade battery for it and it lasted 3-4 days. That would be nice to do on the iPhone.

MotoBlah

[tunapez]

Sounds like one of the many apps in the "App Store" I would never put on my phone. Except it is integrated into the platform of my(not) phone. I watched a good deal of that webcast yesterday and what I saw was a bunch of eggheads rationalizing their price tags for forcing more data onto these already over-loaded networks($.20-.50 / MB...WTF???). What a grand favor these providers are doing us for, nevermind all the data mining potential each of the individual apps provide all rolled up into one aggregate sitting on Moto's servers.
I for one do not welcome our omniscient, cloud-dwelling overlords who have the uncanny ability to smile and look me in the eye, all the while sticking it to me hard and dry.

I was excited for the arrival of Android on VZW. Now I see I won't be buying a new phone with Moto's exceptional reception and the ability to function as an intertube appliance on Wifi b/c there will be some worthless "value-added" bundle and a required data package to tie in with the phone. So, I guess I will continue to save the $5 net access fee and use my phone like caveman used to do it, solely for making calls.

LMAO

[Anonymous Coward]

Well of couse FUCKTON people will take a tonka OS seriously. Hell fuckton people took the original poster serious so it sort of blows that concept out of the water...

Posting anonymous because retard trolls don't deserve the respect a real nick implies...

The year of Linux on the... oh wait!

[Hurricane78]

Interesting, how not Linux dies for getting king of the desktop, but the desktop dies (allegedly) and Linux becomes king of everything else. Phones, settop boxes, netbooks, you name it...

I'm very pleased with the development.

But of course I'll wait for Netcraft to confirm it. ;)

Re:The year of Linux on the... oh wait!

[mrchaotica]

Phones, settop boxes, netbooks, you name it...

I'm very pleased with the development.

Yeah, but the downside is that those devices are often DRM-infested (TiVo, for example). In fact, Android is hardly the first popular Linux phone... it's noteworthy because it's the first popular Linux phone that's actually hackable.

Re:The year of Linux on the... oh wait!

[onemorechip]

I wish I were as pleased as you. About a month ago I went to look at Linux netbooks at Micro Center. They didn't have any. It turns out that enough people were buying the Linux ones, then returning them on finding out they didn't have Linux, so they were "refurbishing" them by installing Windows and then selling them at a discount. Huh?

(The salesman informed me that the refurbished units with Windows preinstalled still included a Linux install disk...and then I walked away.)

But in the handset arena I suppose Linux has a much better chance of displacing MS than in netbooks.

Re:Motorola's great return? - Not likely...

[harmonise]

The Razr was an innovative phone when it was released, no one else had a phone like it (similar to the iPhone when it was released).

Would you mind elaborating on this? I'm not familiar with the Razr and after reading the Wikipedia article about it, I don't understand what made it stand out. It seems to be the same as any other phone out at that time, near as I can tell.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[quickOnTheUptake]

For example, it's pretty hard to be aware of the situation of AIDS in Africa without being either a complete religious moron, or being appalled at the Pope telling people that condoms are not the answer. There really isn't a middle ground there.

Right, no middle ground at all.

Re:Motorola's great return? - Not likely...

[DomNF15]

The Razr's innovation was its physical form factor. At time of launch, it was touted as the thinnest flip phone in the world. The software was the same crap that was being loaded onto all Moto GSM handsets during that time period. I believe it may have also had a unique metallic keypad but don't quote me on that. Nonetheless, it had some of that magic that made the iPhone a runaway success.

Re:Motorola's great return? - Not likely...

[dbcad7]

It was thin and wide instead of narrow and bulky.. In my experience (V3).. It also had good call quality, and was pretty rock solid and would not drop calls like some other phones.. The UI was ok, but a little odd to me.. But from a design perspective it felt good in your pocket or using it.. and was a top seller because of all the things I mentioned, regardless of the UI.. It also had a larger screen inside than other phones when it came out, as well as the little screen outside that would display the incoming call (for screening)... a Smart phone by no means.. but if I just wanted a basic phone with no 3g it would still be my choice, as long as it wasn't Sprints.. because I tried their version, and the UI seemed even worse to me.

Joy! Input From An Idiot.

[Anonymous Coward]

"There's a "muted reaction" to these for the same reason Android device adoption has been disappointing."

The entire cellphone industry is rapidly standardizing on Android. The list of either released of coming out in the next six months Android phones already about 20. By next year this time it will easily be in the 50 to 100 range worldwide.

But, yeah, dimwits like you are too fucking stupid to notice the colossal transformation the cellphone industry is going through right now with Android as the base and default platform.

"will be AT&T's next WinMo-based HTC device"

Yeah, idiots do tend to make stupid purchases. Like buying a dead cellphone OS...

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[SanityInAnarchy]

I didn't dispute Win7 marketshare.

I disputed Linux marketshare.

Measuring a free product by the number of sales is truly moronic.

Re:Suck on that neckbeards!

[SanityInAnarchy]

Except, there is still the question of where the "real world data" is coming from?

No-contract comparisons

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you prefer the Awesome price of $799 for the iphone?

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/06/15/rogers-fido-no-contract-iphone-3g-s-pricing-revealed-eh/

Re:No-contract comparisons

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

No, that's lame. Massively lame. or as I say Massi-lame. As in, "No Iphone for me, its massi-lame".

Is that you, Steve?

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve, you really don't have to post this under a different name and pretending you are an android user.

Re:Is that you, Steve?

[WaywardGeek]

Steve Jobs is an a-hole. The one thing the real Steve Jobs could never do, is admit this.

Re:Motorola's great return? - Not likely...

[indiechild]

The slim form factor was key to its success, but looking at the big picture, the Razr was nothing like the iPhone.

Thoughts

[Skythe]

I'm somewhat of an Android-handset nerd, so I have been following a few recently.
This has the advantage of being perhaps the second QWERTY phone since HTC Dream/Dev Phone, but..
It doesn't look very good to me. Just seems to be missing the "slick" sort of interface RAZR has.
I see what they are trying to do (MOTOBLUR being like HTC's Sense UI), but it just looks like a less nice version of Hero's Interface, and the handset sort of looks chunky/ugly and the T-Mobile and Motorola logo seems like one too many to me.
The backup stuff (All contacts, log-in information, home screen customizations, e-mail and social network messages are backed up on the MOTOBLUR secure server) seems nice but, I seem to already have all of this apart from Home Screen customizations on my Dev Phone (Contacts, Emails all synced with Gmail).

Seems like it has both a D-Pad and trackball, which is good. The track ball being on the left is probably a bad idea, as anyone with a HTC Dream will know that its placed in a good position to quickly scroll and type (albeit; the track ball being hard to use and mostly useless anyway).

Anyway, the only reason i'd buy this over a HTC Hero (/Sense UI) is the QWERTY. I'll be keeping an eye out for the DEXT (and the Motorola Sholes which has rumors floating around about it being the flagship phone for the Android 2.0 release). Still waiting for a good looking QWERTY phone to replace my ugly Dev Phone (but if these images of Sholes are real, Motorola will have my attention: http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/30/motorola-sholes-android-phone-headed-for-verizon/)

Way to twist the Reuters article

[derek5432]

Does anyone actually follow the links to referenced stories? The Reuters story that is said to report a "muted" reaction is entitled "Motorola shares jump on hopes for Google phone" and says:

The market's initial response to the announcement was modest and the shares closed up just 1.5 percent on Thursday, but many analysts took a closer look at the phone --called Cliq in the United States-- later in the afternoon and issued upbeat reports.

The story says shares rose 6.5% on Friday. So the initial response (i.e. for a day) was muted, but overall the response was very positive. No matter what your opinion on Android and Motorola, at least get your shit straight, at least for the people here who obviously don't read past your blurb.

blur

[mdwh2]

Obviously it's referring to a once very popular company, that then went into a bit of a decline, but is now making a comeback with their reunion phone.