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I am in sales but don't sell electronics, I'll leave you to your assumptions on that one.

So why would you lead us to believe otherwise:

So you basically have a complete lack of understanding of the sales process is what you're saying. It's ok, I hear this propagandist nonsense from customers of mine even as I'm trying to point them towards the product that fits their needs and budget rather than the more expensive product that makes no sense for their personal situation.

The reason I separated individual points of your posting was to point out how each of your assumptions was flawed.

It's easy to find flaws when you only post half of the thought. Though, you probably should have googled my points before assuming they were.

Each of your responses are also baseless, unsubstantiated nonsense. Where is your cite for your magical 40-50% acceptance rate for HD capable tuners, and even if the rate is 50% how does that become classified as "early adopter phase"?

You're right. I really wish I researched that number a little better. I forget where I heard/read it, but I was so wrong. Hopefully this month, with sales from the holidays, they'll break 20%. I don't know how they keep the shelves stocked.

The "down scaling" from 1080i to 720p was your reference, not mine, I was telling you it's not done and you responded that it's not done. What are you arguing? My television is 1080i as are virtually all HD units available at all major electronic retailers today and they do, in fact, display 1080i picture. You claimed these sets somehow "down scale" the image to 720p. I'm still waiting for clarification on that.

And it is a perfectly legitimate reference, though, may to not confuse you, I should have said down scalling 1920x1080 to 1366x768(I know, it's a hair better then 720p). 1080i draws a screen that is 1920x1080, albiet in 2 passes, but still requires 1920x1080 pixels to display all data. Call me crazy, but I'm not sure how we're going to jam those pixels into a fixed pixel 1366x768 device that is 1080i capable.
Google native resolution. Here is the second link from a wonderful FUDsite, since many have issues with the accuracy of the first link at Wikipedia.

Fixed-pixel displays follow a few basic rules:
No matter the resolution of the source material, whether VHS, DVD, or HDTV, a fixed-pixel display will always convert, or scale, it to fit its native resolution.
If the incoming source has more pixels than the display's native resolution, you will lose some visible detail and sharpness, though often what you're left with still looks great.
If the incoming source has fewer pixels than the native resolution, you're not getting any extra sharpness from the television's pixels.

While you could have a CRT that is 1800x1600, overdrive it and display the details, albiet it will have the details but may not be as sharp as a 1920x1080 native device. No matter how hard you try, you can't overdrive an LCD or Plasma. There are 1080i TVs capable of displaying a 1920x1080 picture, but considering the circuitry required to improve the bandwidth isn't nearly as pricey as the pixels, chances are, if it is an LCD or plasma that is 1080i capable, it will have a native resolution of 1366x768. The extra pixels above 720p are for overscan.

So if you loose detail, and when a DVD is upscaled, is the difference going to be that noticable? I have a co-worker who can see it, but says, for the price, it isn't worth it. I can see a huge difference, but I am sitting 8ft away from a 110" 1080p screen and have better then 20/20 vision, so I'm not a good candidate for an

Links to top A/V sites:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p= 11351599
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=273
htt p://www.guidetohometheater.com/hddiscplayers/1206p s3blu/index3.html
http://www.insert25.com/playsta tion-3/ps3-better-console-or-blu-ray-player/
http ://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hd-dvd-bluray/1927/sh ootout-3-blu-ray-disc-players-page9.html

I could go on, but I don't need to. It says more that http://hdtvmagazine.com/ uses the PS3 as their "reference" player for BluRay. So does the fact that http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ used it as well.

The link was there in the preview, I swear! Here it is

When your talking point becomes the ability to run Windows on a Mac, there can be no doubt who is in the driver's seat.

the Premium consumer hardware space

The premium consumer hardware space is media and gamer space.

Fully half of Apple's revenues can be traced back to the iPod and iTunes - but when the tail wags the dog, who needs the dog?

Consider this tag line for Apple TV: an easy to use and fun way to wirelessly play all your favorite iTunes content from your Mac or PC on your widescreen TV.

Microsoft's consumer marketing places the PC at the center, never a peripheral.

The heart of a system that includes the XBox 360 and, soon to come, Windows Home Server.

I was under the impression that 720p and 180p were extensions to ATSC that were added later, but they were part of the original spec. Now I really feel left out in the cold by my Mitsubishi W55509 leaving out ATSC 720p. Lacking 1080p is understandable for a 2001 HDTV, as I don't think I'd even want to think about the cost of that capability.

Seriously, doppler effect at car speeds? How fast do you drive?

Hey, I'm not an expert but everything I've read indicates that, yeah, 8VSB really is that sensitive.

It is worth noticing that a google search on 8vsb +doppler reveals that your claim about problems with moving vehicles is repeated almost exclusively in Wikipedia and its mirrors.

Of course, even using your terms, it turns up things like "VSB is a single carrier transmission system, with no provisions for mobile operation" and "[F]rom all available information it seems that the ATSC system of terrestrial digital television used in the US and other NTSC territories will never be capable of mobile reception", so apparently at least a few other people think that, too.

And "atsc doppler" turned up this interview with the former chairman of the ATSC: "The ATSC system was specifically not designed to satisfied or reach moving receivers. This was not an oversight. When you try to satisfy mobile reception, it comes at a huge trade off in terms of bit rate."

I'm getting an ATSC tuner for xmas, as I said. Maybe I'll try it out in a car someday and we'll see.

I'm not sure I see that BluRay/HD-DVD will obviously fail to be profitable in the short-medium term, when current HDTV owners are shelling out $1000-3000 for their TVs...

HDTV prices are dropping 20% anually.

25% of TV's sold in 2004 were HDTV's... I can't find the other figures at the moment, but a the % of new purchases that are HDTV is increasing every year by a decent amount, something like 5% more every year. And if that trend continues without changing, then just back-of-the-napkin calculations, yeah, it's 15 years for full-scale HDTV adoption. (it's hard to say whether % yearly purchses will continue to increase at the same rate... you might argue thay'll hit a ceiling unless HDTV prices can dip below $600... I might argue that adoption rates could greatly increase if the price gets low enough (eg. a lot of people suddenly bought a DVD player the year that name-brand players started selling under $99).

However, this time around, it won't be as big a deal since anyone could buy a PS2 and a DVD and see a big improvement over their VCR. With the nextgen discs, if you don't have a HDTV, you won't see any real improvement. So (I would think) a smaller # of people will buy a PS3 to act as a budget DVD player. Some will, but it's not like the VHS-to-DVD transition...

The latest figures I could find indicate many millions of HD-TV's in homes today. So while you might not see a difference in video quality, there are many millions who can - do the cross section of those people that will also buy a PS3 and you have at least a million homes that will notice a difference in quality. From that standpoint I still think it will drive adoption of the format much like the PS2 did for DVDs.

When other people see how good HD stuff looks (visiting a friend who has a set), they have a lot of motivation to upgrade - and further motivation not to visit a theater.

There is a great interview with Mark Knox from Toshiba regarding the HD DVD format in which he discusses the copy protection, MPAA etc. Long, but a good read.

I just purchased an HD LCD and am NOT planning on duplicating my DVD library on HD. They are not making the content very appealing to own. Why buy something that severely limits your options? If anything, I'll get some sort of player and just depend on Netflix for content. The last thing I need is another copy of the Star Wars trilogy.