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Free legal support can be a huge help in getting started...

Since the day our Co-Op in Chicago was founded, one of the biggest member "users" has been a local law firm, and half of the original board were attorneys (down to 25% now). In retrospect, such a high concentration of lawyers was pretty much a pre-requisite, given the name of the Co-op.

Having a place to meet and being able to get all of the legal issues out of the way (without paying attorney fees) made it possible to get the organization off the ground on a "shoestring" budget.

We also ended up with what I feel is a really solid set of bylaws.

Free legal support can be a huge help in getting started...

Since the day our Co-Op in Chicago was founded, one of the biggest member "users" has been a local law firm, and half of the original board were attorneys (down to 25% now). In retrospect, such a high concentration of lawyers was pretty much a pre-requisite, given the name of the Co-op.

Having a place to meet and being able to get all of the legal issues out of the way (without paying attorney fees) made it possible to get the organization off the ground on a "shoestring" budget.

We also ended up with what I feel is a really solid set of bylaws.

We have a happy medium here in Chicago at the ISPFH co-op.

While we offer DSL (and allow running servers on DSL, with static IPs), many members choose to colocate 1U or 2U servers to run their own web site(s).

This approach eliminates the reliability, latency and bandwidth issues that come from locating the server in your home, at the tail end of a DSL circuit. You get the same high-availability power, cooling, and connectivity as the managed services customers in the next room, at a fraction of the cost.

The biggest difference is that unlike hosting at home via DSL, turning up the bandwidth from 384K to X megabits is simply a matter of a cutting a larger check to the association, and a simple configuration change at the gateway router.

Each member gets a subnet (usually a /29) on a VLAN dedicated to their machine(s), with hard and soft bandwidth limits courtesy of Cisco's Rate Limit IOS Commands. This ensures that no one user can eclipse another, nor steal/spoof their IP addresses.

There are two major drawbacks -- This approach isn't cheap, and hardware upgrades and related repairs take some coordination for physical access to the shared rack space.

We have a happy medium here in Chicago at the ISPFH co-op.

While we offer DSL (and allow running servers on DSL, with static IPs), many members choose to colocate 1U or 2U servers to run their own web site(s).

This approach eliminates the reliability, latency and bandwidth issues that come from locating the server in your home, at the tail end of a DSL circuit. You get the same high-availability power, cooling, and connectivity as the managed services customers in the next room, at a fraction of the cost.

The biggest difference is that unlike hosting at home via DSL, turning up the bandwidth from 384K to X megabits is simply a matter of a cutting a larger check to the association, and a simple configuration change at the gateway router.

Each member gets a subnet (usually a /29) on a VLAN dedicated to their machine(s), with hard and soft bandwidth limits courtesy of Cisco's Rate Limit IOS Commands. This ensures that no one user can eclipse another, nor steal/spoof their IP addresses.

There are two major drawbacks -- This approach isn't cheap, and hardware upgrades and related repairs take some coordination for physical access to the shared rack space.

ISP From Hell has been doing what you're doing for years now.

It's still a neat idea, and short of hosting outside of the USA, breaking away from commercial providers like this is the only way to get real freedom, as in Freedom of Speech, from an ISP.

You should exchange notes with other non-profit ISPs. Were a network of non-profit ISPs - free from commercial interests - to spread across the globe, you could change the world.

Yes, exactly.

In Chicago, we got so sick of sucky internet providers that we banded together and created a Coop, where you pay for only the pipe, and you get what you pay for.

www.ISPFH.org

The drawbacks?

It ain't cheap.

It's not cheap, but it's flexible. Chicago has ISPFH - a play on BOFH. ISPFH is a non-profit, and the more it grows, the cheaper it gets. They offer colocation, DSL and ISDN access. (Possibly dialup too?)

Basically, you buy in as a member of the co-op, then pay at cost. Excess funds are returned to the members. You can do as you please, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else. (Full details in their AUP.)

ISPFH's bandwidth isn't oversold (except 2x on DSL), and I've heard nothing but good things about them. Me, I'm still doing the speakeasy DSL thing - cheap, fast. But if covad ever goes belly up, ISPFH's my next step.

We are considering providing our membership with DSL service, so far we are considering Focal's offerings.

Focal claims that they do not oversell the DSLAM, a major complaint with other local providers. Any comments on Focal's service?

We are a not-for-profit ISP in Chicago, offering true (dedicated, not oversold) bandwidth to members. Our service is not cheaper than other ISPs.

Right now I am pricing the options to offer DSL service to members, and having a difficult time finding DSL circuit providers that are not overselling their own internal (ATM/FR) bandwidth from the central offices themselves.

Unfortunately, real bandwidth costs real money, a true T1 connection without any artificial restrictions will run you around $1,500.00 in most major US cities, not counting the cost of the circuit itself. When you pay a DSL provider $49.95 a month, you aren't going to be getting dedicated access to $1,500 worth of bandwidth!

A for-profit ISP has to keep their average customer happy (Slashdot readers are not their average customer), pay the monthly recurring cost for the support personnel, rent, DSL and T1/T3 circuits and bandwidth to the Internet, pay off the initial capital expense, and eventually turn a profit. They have no choice but to cut corners and oversell bandwidth.

At most, you get what you pay for.

We operate a Chicago based internet coop, and we've found that operating without a profit motive, doesn't always mean lower prices.

Doing things right, not cutting any corners, can be more expensive than operating as a company that expects to eventually turn a profit. And if you don't plan to make money, paying the difference out of your own pocket eventually can get to be painful.

Our Co-op is organized as a non-profit Illinois corporation, and has managed to break even on the first year of operations, but only by passing along the actual costs of operation to the membership- this ends up with prices only slightly lower than with a traditional 'for profit' ISP, but with much better service levels.

You have to decide on what is important for you- and for a hosting provider, covering the operating losses out of your pocket isn't viable in the long run. Once you accumulate a wife, house, kids, your prorities change, and your expensive 'hobby' starts to take a backseat to other budget items.

To be viable, any ISP must cover it's own cost of operation and growth, regardless of their 'non-profit' or 'for-profit' status, or they will fail.

We have an Internet Co-Op in Chicago, where we purchase colocation space and connectivity as a group, making it available to members -- individuals, site hosting services, and businesses can all join.

This is not inexpensive, but it's quality hosting without the headaches of working through a for-profit ISP.

In addition to this, one way to get nearly free colocation service is to find a smaller ISP or other business that has more bandwidth than they need, and make a barter arrangement where you provide them with some regular service that they can use, and they provide you with a place to connect your machine. When done right, it's a win-win solution for both parties.