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But when someone pointed me to http://matrix.itasoftware.com/ [itasoftware.com] , which just lists flights and prices instead of actually letting you buy, I never went back to the annoying third party sites. I've never really gotten a deal on the third party sites that was any cheaper than just looking up the cost on the informational site and buying the itinerary straight from the airline, nor

Yeah, this is one I've never really understood. I used to think that you had to use the intermediary sites since when I was younger, my parents either always used agents or third party sites once we got Internet access.

But when someone pointed me to http://matrix.itasoftware.com/, which just lists flights and prices instead of actually letting you buy, I never went back to the annoying third party sites. I've never really gotten a deal on the third party sites that was any cheaper than just looking up the cost on the informational site and buying the itinerary straight from the airline, nor have the hotel deals been any cheaper or different for me than just booking the hotel independently. I know that my folks like it because it's all of the prep-work done from one site, which is a fair point, but I personally just haven't seen the benefit.

Use this tool and have fun: http://matrix.itasoftware.com/
You can't actually buy the tickets, but once you've found what you want, you can just go to any other travel site, airline site or real-world travel agent and issue the tickets.

http://matrix.itasoftware.com/ is a very useful web site indeed.

Think of it as Google for cheap flights.

I hope Google does the right thing and keeps ITA alive: these guys knew their stuff.

The most useful page on ITA's site is this: http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

You can use the ITA engine at http://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/dispatch and it is really quite good compared to most airline/agency websites. However, it won't actually sell you a ticket.

Yes, as the experiments clearly show: as long as you write tiny numerical computations and programs that require code-as-data anyway.

Those papers do not show, and their authors do not state, that such a qualification is justified...

toy examples aren't going to convince anyone.

...and if they had, they'd have made laughing stocks of themselves:

http://www.lispworks.com/success-stories/raytheon-siglab.html
http://www.franz.com/success/customer_apps/eda/amd.lhtml
http://www.franz.com/success/customer_apps/data_mining/itastory.php3 (also: http://www.itasoftware.com/careers/l_e_t_lisp.html?catid=8 )

etc.

FYI:
Orbitz doesn't use their own search engine. They use ITA Software, whose "test" interface is very handy for finding fares

Does ITA provide hotel, car or packaging products ??

FYI: Orbitz doesn't use their own search engine. They use ITA Software, whose "test" interface is very handy for finding fares

Still drawing machines on paper, instead of using a CAD? Never used a text editor? Never used a computer algebra system and still computing integrals by hand? Never searched for cheap airplane tickets? Many people use these things, you know. I'm quite happy with the second and the third one, at least.

I hear ITA Software is also hiring several managers:

http://www.itasoftware.com/careers/jsearch.html

Anyway, somebody asked you to do it, so you must have some idea of what the job entails(and if you don't, you won't even notice when you fail miserably, so who cares). Talk to each candidate for a while(not a whole lot longer than it takes to figure out that they aren't what you want). Ask questions that you think are relevant to doing the job. The answer to questions like 'Do you have good people skills?' is invariably 'yes', so don't bother with those. Try not to ask questions that you would find insulting. A popular line of questioning seems to be to ask about responses to a scenario, but I can see where you would get better flow out of an interview if you asked for their opinions about someone else's responses to a real scenario, rather than their personal responses to some contrived scenario.

Here's a commercial use of lisp for ya. If you've ever searched for airfares on Orbitz, Kayak, etc, you've been using a Lisp-based engine.

It's hard to get people to really look at your company. For example, I work for ITA Software, and we're probably one of the best options for the superstar programmer on the east coast. We do real computer science (you know, that stuff you thought you'd never do for real work again after your PhD? One thing that works out is that we have programming puzzles on each of our job's pages like this one: Computer Scientist/Programmer. These puzzles are fun, and just hard enough that your average Java Certified Web flunky will get weeded out. It really helps.

Of course, for operations and other areas of the company, it's still hard to attract the right eyes.

I can't vouch for the other sites you mentioned, but Orbitz is considerably more than just skinning some static data feeds, and moreover isn't that mainframe-dependent these days. Check out this article by Paul Graham for more information. The pricing engine they use is by ITA Software, and it's actually quite complicated and compute-intensive.

Let's say that in a slightly different way: companies that are non-technical now treat IT as they should: a necessary evil that they must absorb as best they can.

There are still highly technical companies in which computer science and software engneering ARE the bottom-line. I happen to work for one such company

If you're buying just plane tickets from Expidea, Travelocity, or Orbitz, 9 times out of 10 it's cheaper to buy the ticket directly from the airline in question. Cut out the middleman.

Very true, for domestic USA flights only. And the best way to figure out which airline is often to use the engine at ITA Software's site. Sometimes you will find weird (unusably weird) routings but you will also get a list of the best published fares available. Some you can get at the airline's web site, others you need to print out the codes and take to a travel agent.

For international flights you're almost always better off with a good travel agent.

If you're buying just plane tickets from Expidea, Travelocity, or Orbitz, 9 times out of 10 it's cheaper to buy the ticket directly from the airline in question. Cut out the middleman.

Very true, for domestic USA flights only. And the best way to figure out which airline is often to use the engine at ITA Software's site. Sometimes you will find weird (unusably weird) routings but you will also get a list of the best published fares available. Some you can get at the airline's web site, others you need to print out the codes and take to a travel agent.

For international flights you're almost always better off with a good travel agent.

ITA Software, the company whose back-end powers sites like Orbitz.com, uses a significant amount of Lisp code in their applications.

noah

ita software built the fastest fare search engine in the world and leases it out to comanies like Oribtz. If you don't have a specific business deal with Orbitz, you can get your optimized fare straight from ITA and just go to website of of the airline they turn up for you to book the flight directly with the carrier...same prices, same seats, wicked fast.

ITA Software also has some great puzzles related to employment.

Lisp is a language that doesn't get in your way with a lot of syntax...the very opposite of , say Ada which presumes [with its 277 BNF production rules] to have a sytactic straightjacket that will keep you from doing something stupid. Knowing how to think: analyzing, compartmentalizing and being able to create coherent whole solutions from components is something you are as likely to learn as a physicist or a mathematician. Knowing how to program is all that a BSCS degree promises and with that you can get programming squables of the sort going on between McKitrick and Michaels. Knowing how to think, it is handy to have a language like Lisp that is amorphous, taking its shape from your structuring of the problem/solution. This begins to sound like academic BS but harken: Here is a company that wrote the world's fastest airfare pricing engine in Lisp and makes a nice living selling its services to travel booking websites like Orbitz. But you have to think to get a job there! their job application has a humbling day-long programming test in the language of your choice that would sorely try any Google applicant's skills.

I am a hacker. I work in a company full of hackers. While I'm working in this company that bothers to make and understand the distinction, someone else is taking a job at a crappy company I don't want to work for.

Works for me. YMMV.

BTW: ITA Software has some really good programming puzzles if you're looking for something that's a real challenge. If you're an admin, and you submit a resume for that job we send you a different, more ops-oriented puzzle that you might enjoy.

BTW: ITA Software has some really good programming puzzles if you're looking for something that's a real challenge. If you're an admin, and you submit a resume for that job we send you a different, more ops-oriented puzzle that you might enjoy.

BTW: ITA Software has some really good programming puzzles if you're looking for something that's a real challenge. If you're an admin, and you submit a resume for that job we send you a different, more ops-oriented puzzle that you might enjoy.

orbitz.com (running http://www.itasoftware.com/) for one: see google groups.

If you want to build complex systems fast, nobody is going to turn to LISP for a solution. There isn't one. LISP is a beautiful language which I think any programmer would benefit to learn, but its not a language to get things done with.

LISP is a powerful and interesting language and as a language has its merits. I don't mean to pick on LISP.

What irks me is not that Paul Graham is saying this, but that he might get listened to

The "lack of commercial CL success" meme has GOT to die. CL is used for very high-value commecial systems. Apps written in CL are used by law firms, intelligence, security and police agencies worldwide as an investigative aid, it's used to get your airline tickets ready, it's used to do all sorts of HARD stuff. The stuff that other people look at and go "not possible with today's technology" or "you'll need a human to do that."

No, it's not hyped like Java, but I confidently predict that in 40 years time Lisp will still be around (as will Fortran...). Lisp is one of the oldest computer languages, but it has continuously evolved, and is still evolving today.

It's pretty pathetic to see the XML and scripting-language-du-jour communities discover problems that Lisp solved years ago, reinvent/steal solutions to those solved problems, then hype the solutions as big new "wins"...

Actually, since Bing and I are across the hall from eachother, here are ITA, let me point out that the really interesting story is that we have the best programming puzzles in the industry.

The goal is to get candidates to submit code samples of their work that actually address the kinds of problems that we work on, so if you can do the puzzles, send us your code and a resume, and there's a great chance you'll be hauled in for an interview at one of the best tech companies in the country!

Keep in mind that we're not just a LISP shop. I'm in the operations group, and I do a lot of Perl and C++ work. Submit code in any language you like!

ITA is currently hiring for a variety of positions.

Here is the link.

As Paul Graham said at Beating The Averages, anyone who wants to run a business can say whatever they want in publicity, but they have to tell you their technology in their job ads.

Located here.

And try parallel programing with lisp. There simply isn't such a thing. Sad, sad.

When you grow tired of sticking your head in the sand, have a look at ITA's website. They make the software that powers Orbitz's web site. If this is not an impressive testament to Common Lisp's ability to do industrial strength parallel programming, I'm not sure what would satisfy you.

You are correct that Common Lisp lacks a standard definition of parallel programming constructs, and thus parallel programs must use vendor-specific extensions. (There are some efforts to abstract over the differences.) In this regard, Common Lisp seems in the same boat as most other languages.