Domain: lynxmotion.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to lynxmotion.com.
Comments · 19
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Lynxmotion
Check out Lynxmotion products. They have a whole line of hobbyist-level mobile robots, arms, controllers, components, and software, all of which work together.
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Re:EMC2A mill or router is a very large project for someone who has never done this before.
Lego Mindstorms. Or here.
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Too dumb
There are already dumbots in that range. Any new robot should come with at least an Allwinner ARM CPU ($7) and a camera as standard. That's enough for some vision processing and at least 2D SLAM. The hardware to put some real smarts in a little bot is now cheap and there's enough open source software available to get started on making it smart.
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Sources for kits
There are numerous kits available, best sources for choosing one would be http://www.pololu.com/ , http://www.trossenrobotics.com/ , http://www.robotshop.com/ , http://www.lynxmotion.com/ , http://www.makershed.com/ and a bunch of others. http://sparkfun.com/ and http://adafruit.com/ for more general electronics components
Cant really recommend one in particular, as it depends on what you want to do. There are several categories : 2wheel differential drive bases, legged hexapods, 4wd bases, even bipeds and robotic arms.
If you get one that is designed to be Arduino-compatible, and can take any number of Arduino expansion shields, you will have endless possibilities. I'd say easiest starting point is a complete 2WD kit with some accessory sensors. This is a nice one http://www.makershed.com/product_p/mkseeed7.htm , comes with motors and all. Just pick a "mainboard" and motor driver shield and you are good to go. -
Build Your Own!
All of the parts appear to be readily available off-the-shelf parts.
The base is an iRobot Create.
The arm appears to be a modified Lynxmotion AL5C.
Plus a generic laptop, webcam, etc. -
Re:Singularity is naiveImagine the size of big blue if it had to actually see the board and physically move the pieces. Actually, those two tasks are fairly easy compared to the task of winning a game of chess. This is because chess boards all have a fairly consistent look, and even if presented with a strange, unfamiliar-looking chess board, a decent "chess vision" algorithm should have relatively little trouble inferring what the pieces are etc. Similarly, good robotics coupled with a good 3D world model should take care of moving the pieces relatively easily. So, your home computer with a webcam and a nice USB robotic arm attached could take care of those two tasks. Now, to deal with the 10^123 game-tree complexity...
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Give it an arm!
It would be more useful if it had one or two arms. If you are going to put wheels on it, an arm is only ~$500 and some lines of code more.
Sorry for the slashvertisement, but seriously. -
Re:Cool, But Still Disappointed
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Another list here
A lot of people have caught the obvious, so I will really just summarize.
LEGO NXT & Mindstorms are both great kits to play around in. Especially if you have traditional LEGO bricks and Technic pieces already.
If you are more into Erector style kits, then go with the Vex kits from Radio Shack. They are clearing them out for some reason, so they are cheap. Make sure you get a programming kit though.
If you want more "professional" robots, maybe take a look at Lynxmotion, they have really really cool sets that will come with everything you need to make an arm, or a walker, or what have you.
Of course, you can go pre-made, but simpler, with a Mark III. This basic kit is wonderful to learn programming of a micro controller.
If you want a more capable micro, the OOPic is a good choice.
I have played or own all of the products above, and they are all wonderful ways to get your hands dirty. Of course, also see the book recomendations in this thread, there are excellent selections there too that I highly recomend. -
Re:Mindstorms would be better
Mindstorms are pretty cool, but these are completely awesome. The only downside is they're a bit more expensive than Mindstorm.
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Kit robotics is getting better
There's real progress in kit robotics, but you have to be willing to pay roughly the price of a PS3 for it. See Lynxmotion and Hitec Robotics.
Among other things, you can finally get stock R/C type servos with a digital interface providing position and torque feedback. That's a huge step up - you're no longer stuck with blind position control; you can do force control and software-implemented compliance, like Brooks' insects from a decade ago. The actuator hardware is now available.
Sensing is improving, but a 6DOF INS is still rare on kit robots. That's purely a volume problem; accelerometer and gyro chips are cheap, but the systems haven't come down enough yet. We're starting to see rate gyros in kit robots; adding a rate gyro to an R/C biped makes the thing much more stable.
The software used to drive hobbyist robots tends to be way behind the state of the art, but that will get fixed as more people read the papers and write code. The next few years are going to be interesting.
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This is supposed to be "cheap"?I have seen two different prices for this 14 inch tall device - one price was listed in another article as "$7000.00" (no indication if it was US dollars or what), while another poster here on
/. indicates "$14000.00" (wow - double?!). My questions are, how is this in any way "cheap", and furthermore, just what is that money going towards?
I mean, seriously - it can't be the servos, sensors, mechanical linkages, or plastic "body parts". Lynxmotion's Robonova only costs $1000.00 for a kit, and that includes digital feedback servos. I know for a fact that the accellerometers, force sensors, and electronic gyros don't cost that much, we could probably safely say another $1000.00 (and that would likely be a high estimate, although I haven't been able to find pricing on miniature 3-axis force sensors, but they are nothing more than fancy small strain gauges). If you wanted vision, you could add on a cheap CMUCam system from Parallax - something which doesn't seem to be a part of the HRP-2m. For an SBC of the size and power quoted (240MHz SH-4 processor, 32MB of RAM, business card sized, linux capable), I was able to find a few examples after a bit of googling for dev kits (of similar spec) for around $1200.00 (personally, I would stick with a cheapo desktop communicating with the 'bot via bluetooth or a similar wireless link, coupled to a servo controller, and maybe a Parallax Stamp or Propeller for management). Software is "open" (though not really "open source" - you need to license it), and free to download (for non-commercial use), so there isn't any cost there (unless, as another poster pointed out, there is a firmware issue - which I didn't research).I just don't see how there could be justification for $7000.00, let alone $14000.00! As I attempted to describe, a similar robot with similar capabilities can be picked up almost "off-the-shelf" (albeit, from a few different vendors instead of just one) for almost half the price of the "low" estimate, while being generous with my estimated pricing. Likely, you could do even better - for example, using Lynxmotion's servo brackets plus lower-cost non-digital servos, you might able to build something like the Robonova for about 2/3's or so of the cost. If you made your own brackets from cheap alluminum, you could knock even more off the cost (though you will still pay for it in time to machine those brackets).
You ultimately "get what you pay for", so I wouldn't go too cheap - the Lynxmotion servo brackets and cheaper non-digital hi-tec servos would probably be the lowest cost (in terms of money, time, and aggravation) that I would be willing to spend, personally. However, there comes a point where you are just spending money to spend money - and for something like this, that point is about $3000.00 (give or take a few hundred), unless your biped is a fair amount taller than 14 inches or so. So, where is the price increase coming from for this machine? The answer is right in the article:
Much of the technology behind Choromet was originally developed for the HRP-2 Promet (pictured at right), a life-sized research robot marketed by Kawada, and costing tens of millions of yen (upwards of $170,000).
Can you say "recovery of invested funds" (by overcharging buyers of a 'toy')?
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This is supposed to be "cheap"?I have seen two different prices for this 14 inch tall device - one price was listed in another article as "$7000.00" (no indication if it was US dollars or what), while another poster here on
/. indicates "$14000.00" (wow - double?!). My questions are, how is this in any way "cheap", and furthermore, just what is that money going towards?
I mean, seriously - it can't be the servos, sensors, mechanical linkages, or plastic "body parts". Lynxmotion's Robonova only costs $1000.00 for a kit, and that includes digital feedback servos. I know for a fact that the accellerometers, force sensors, and electronic gyros don't cost that much, we could probably safely say another $1000.00 (and that would likely be a high estimate, although I haven't been able to find pricing on miniature 3-axis force sensors, but they are nothing more than fancy small strain gauges). If you wanted vision, you could add on a cheap CMUCam system from Parallax - something which doesn't seem to be a part of the HRP-2m. For an SBC of the size and power quoted (240MHz SH-4 processor, 32MB of RAM, business card sized, linux capable), I was able to find a few examples after a bit of googling for dev kits (of similar spec) for around $1200.00 (personally, I would stick with a cheapo desktop communicating with the 'bot via bluetooth or a similar wireless link, coupled to a servo controller, and maybe a Parallax Stamp or Propeller for management). Software is "open" (though not really "open source" - you need to license it), and free to download (for non-commercial use), so there isn't any cost there (unless, as another poster pointed out, there is a firmware issue - which I didn't research).I just don't see how there could be justification for $7000.00, let alone $14000.00! As I attempted to describe, a similar robot with similar capabilities can be picked up almost "off-the-shelf" (albeit, from a few different vendors instead of just one) for almost half the price of the "low" estimate, while being generous with my estimated pricing. Likely, you could do even better - for example, using Lynxmotion's servo brackets plus lower-cost non-digital servos, you might able to build something like the Robonova for about 2/3's or so of the cost. If you made your own brackets from cheap alluminum, you could knock even more off the cost (though you will still pay for it in time to machine those brackets).
You ultimately "get what you pay for", so I wouldn't go too cheap - the Lynxmotion servo brackets and cheaper non-digital hi-tec servos would probably be the lowest cost (in terms of money, time, and aggravation) that I would be willing to spend, personally. However, there comes a point where you are just spending money to spend money - and for something like this, that point is about $3000.00 (give or take a few hundred), unless your biped is a fair amount taller than 14 inches or so. So, where is the price increase coming from for this machine? The answer is right in the article:
Much of the technology behind Choromet was originally developed for the HRP-2 Promet (pictured at right), a life-sized research robot marketed by Kawada, and costing tens of millions of yen (upwards of $170,000).
Can you say "recovery of invested funds" (by overcharging buyers of a 'toy')?
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It is a sad thing, but, so what?Sure, Aibo and Qrio are cool robots, but in the grand scheme of things, will it really matter?
I would be willing to bet that you could easily build either one of these robots off-the-shelf using parts from LynxMotion, for half the cost or less. They aren't the only supplier, either - Pick up an issue of Servo Magazine and you will find several suppliers of similar kits and parts. Most use standard RC servos. Several companies have also introduced special robotics digital servos with 2-way communications buses. Also, I know of at least one company which produced an "Aibo-like" styrene shell into which standard servos could be fitted. Hobby robotics (and robotics in general) have come a long way in a very short time (I credit much of the kick-up in interest to the culture of combat robotics, as well as Lego Mindstorms).
So, where is the problem? Ah - that is issue - the problem lies not in hardware availability, but in control software. The solutions to solving dynamic walking, on a quadrupedal or bipedal frame, are far from completely solved. When you build your own system, you are lucky if you get some form of pattern playback software. Such software works well for stable multi-leg systems (octo or hexapod), on relatively flat surfaces, but when you move to lesser number of legs, balance becomes key, even on flat surfaces. Add in directional control and a dynamic terrain environment, and the software quickly becomes a hairy problem.
Sony had an OK solution to this with both the Aibo and Qrio, and people were using both platforms to explore other methods and algorithms (mostly in RoboCup Soccer). I would bet that Sony, while they may be stopping the manufacture of the robots, will continue to develop this software, as it is a valuable piece of the puzzle to developing useful humanoid "helper robots" for the elderly (which is an area a lot of robotics research is being done for in Japan). Whether they use this software for their own products or license it is anyone's guess.
As far as hobby robotics for quad and bipedal platforms are concerned: I wouldn't worry. The hardware is there, the software is too (to a lesser extent - it will only grow). Other options exist, so don't mourn Sony's decision. Instead, focus on those other options...
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Re:Pretty cool ..I've been trying to program a bipedal robot to learn how to walk on two feet with active sensing, rather than passive. Everything I've ever seen has been purely passive, like that honda robot. Actually the project has stagnated for the last few months, but if you want to see how hard it is, build This Kit, hook the servos up to a microcontroller along with some piezo gyros and have at it. It's damn hard, I learned fairly quick. Sensing what is going on is near impossible, humans are good at it because we've got a billion sensors all over us.
I bet this guy is afraid of doing anything "active" since its likely to destroy the entire thing.
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Get Something CheaperNeat, but where do the electroncis go on it? It doesn't look like it's got the room?
That said, you can get a cheaper one. They are not as good, but... they're cheaper. Lynxmotion's Biped, or the less fancy Parallax Todler.
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Re:A Whole Laptop?
WPIDalamar, I'm actually working on a robot also. If your looking for sensors, you might want to try Lynxmotion.com. They have an ultrasonic rangefinder and an infrared collision detection circuit. If nothing else the collision detection circuit should give you an idea about how to build your own.
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Mobile Arm?
How about a Mobile Arm? Then it could get the coke from the fridge too.
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More roboticsWhoa, imagine a Beowulf cluster...no wait, thats not what I wanted to say!
But seriously folks, wander on over to LynxMotion for some nifty robotics. I got their first Hexapod 2 walker kits a couple of years ago.
The usual disclaimer about not being part of the company, blah blah
-=Bob