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Posting anonymously because I moderated. ;)

EverQuest certainly does have a lot of advertising. It had a number of full-page advertisements in Computer Games magazine from a month or two ago.

It also has some embarassing advertisements, too. A few years ago they released this video of a few vapid yet stunningly beautiful women trying to discuss EQ in a bar setting. They were describing the game very poorly, making it painfully obvious to even a casual player that they weren't players.

Marketing and eye-candy make a HUGE difference in games. Otherwise smaller games like A Tale In the Desert and Meridian 59 would dominate conversations with their superior gameplay. With small advertising budgets and something less that cutting-edge graphics, they don't get nearly the attention that EQ or UO get.

Setting the record straight,

The AC.

The problem is that democracy doesn't really work in commercial worlds. You can get up on your high horse and complain about democracy, but the reality of the situation is that players expect the people running and profiting from the game to handle the problems.

Imagine of there were undeniable proof that 1) a deity exists, and 2) he/she/it listens to people and can be influenced by people. Do you think people would still handle their own problems? Through history we've had people lament the unfairness of the deity(ies) even without conclusive proof he/she/it/they exist.

In my own game, Meridian 59, there is an elected position in the game that allows players to give "pardons" to other players that have murdered others. This position takes a lot of effort to win, because there is always someone wishing to control that power for their own benefit. Trying to run the position and be fair to the population of the game is very hard, and completely unfun for all but a small group of people. Most people would rather have the admins interfere with the system than have to work to keep things in check.

Further, the company exists to make money. Having someone expose the underbelly of a world intended to be someplace for people to go chat and have fun isn't exactly good for business. While Ludlow is obviously doing some interesting things along the lines of reseach, he is equally obviously being confrontational in his work. There are many things he could have done that would have been beneficial to the world and not harmful to Maxis. He could have talked about the issues he found in The Sims Online without naming the exact service much as doctors refer to patient studies without including the patients' names in the studies. He could have also went to Maxis with this information before he put it on a web page.

Finally, what is Maxis supposed to do about this issue? Have a CS representative drop in and say, "I've noticed you've used the words 'penis' and/or 'vagina' or associated colloqual terms at least 5 times in the last 5 minutes. Are you having cybersex? Could I see some ID to make sure no one here is underage?" Yeah, that'll go over really well with the players.

In my own game world people murder each other all the time, sometimes to the point that groups of people will leave the game. I take no steps to prevent it. Does this make me a genocidal tyrant? Anyone who says "yes" needs to get outside more. ;)

My opinion on the matter,

I play games with my better half. Of course, being a game developer she's more tolerant of my gaming interests than most people might, otherwise she would have left me a long time ago.

Turn-based strategy is good. Heroes of Might and Magic is great (I recommend 3, but 2 is good. You'll probably find 4 in the stores, but it's a bit more complicated with less interesting gameplay than 2 or 3 had.) The upside is that you can play for a bit and then save the game without too much fuss; good for that 1 hour of play per night plan if that's wht you want. The downside is that games can take a VERY long time, especially waiting for the other to complete the turn.

Real-time strategy is also cool. My GF and I play Age of Empires 2 (with expansion). There's an option for both people to play the same civilization. A 2-on-2 game where you and your GF play one civ with a computer ally against 2 other computer enemies is a real blast. You should be able to find the game cheap, since it's a bit old. The newer version, Age of Mythology, wasn't quite as captivating. The upside the game is cheap and runs on fairly modest hardware. The downside is that there's a big jump in difficulty levels from too easy to pretty difficult, so there's a large gap in the learning curve.

You could also look at online RPGs. I'm a bit biased towards these because I run one, Meridian 59. There are several people that play together. These games are a lot of fun when you play together in the same room, chatting back and forth. In a PvP-focused game, like Meridian 59, you can coordinate your strategies easier. A friend of mine started playing M59 recently with his wife. Even though she thought she'd hate PvP, she really enjoyed the political aspects of organizing a guild. Upside: You can meet and talk to lots of interesting people. Downside: Just like any other group of people, there's idiots to deal with. Online games can also end up taking a lot of time as you want to log on and maintain friendships; it's something you have to plan to do in moderation.

Hope this was at least semi-interesting, even though it'll get lost in the crowd. ;)

It's interesting to see that the online RPG market is already turning to sequels, licenses, and derivatives after less than a decade of wide-spread commercial attention. It seems that the large game publishers are falling back on what they know in order to maximize profit.

It's a bit unfortunate, because the online medium deserves a lot better than that. You can do some very cool and interesting things online that you simply cannot do with traditional single-player games. The social dimensions these games and worlds can explore are astounding.

I think that in the future we'll see the rise of more 'independent' games. My own company, Near Death Studios, runs Meridian 59, a classic game with a strong focus on PvP. We are willing to cater to the smaller market that wants meaningful PvP in their game. There are plenty of other games out there, including the rather unique A Tale In The Desert that offers an entirely non-combat world. I think that as more people are able to take bold steps in developing an indie game, you will see more options out there. My hope is that the indie games will be able to offer people more of what they want, instead of just trying to slap a license into an online world where it doesn't fit, or build a sequel of a game that should last a long time. By offering people a more focused experience, instead of pandering to a mythical "mass-market audience" for these games, the indies will hopefully show the power of the online medium.

Of course, if only it were that easy. Players have to actually support these games for them to grow. Yeah, indie games are as a rule less pretty and less polished than big-name games. But, if the gameplay is more of what you like, why not support them? The gameplay is arguably the reason why people play these games. Also, most of the smaller games can't afford big advertising budgets like the large games do. EQ has probably spent more on advertising than ATITD has spent on game development as a whole, so obviously more people are going to hear about EQ rather than ATITD. So, people need to do a bit more searching for these games. In the end, I think it's the best option to keep the online medium intersting and fun for the most people.

My crazy opinions as an indie online game developer.

What is wrong with exploring for yourself?

I'll have to agree. I think that getting out there and playing a variety of games is better than being told what games to play.

As a professional, independent game developer, I find the lists useless. I consider myself a pretty serious gamer and a student of game history, but I barely know half the games there.

One of the biggest issues is that a lot of the older games are mostly lost to time. I played arcade games obsessively as a kid, but I only really got to play some of the classics due to the involvement some of my friends have with emulation. I didn't appreciate a game like Robotron when I was 10, and paying $1k+ (plus shipping!) to get a live machine seems a bit insane. People looking for a legal way to play these classic games are mostly out of luck.

You can say the same thing about older consoles and computers, too. Strict copyright enforcement and the ravages of time have made some classic games very hard to find and play. Finding legal copies of these games is damn near impossible.

Further, the lists focus on big-name games. Ultima is mentioned, but what about the critically acclaimed games produced by Spiderweb Software? Is the Exile series less worthy of attention just because it is "shareware" instead of being published by a large company? Why does Anarchy Online get a mention on the lists when it is widely considered to have the worst launch in history? Why doesn't Meridian 59 get a mention when it is widely considered to be a pioneer in the retail graphical online game market. Especially considering that former developers of M59 went on to work on a lot of other online games, such as UO, UO2, The Sims Online, Shadowbane, etc.

Finally, there's a lot of repeats. Do you really need to play Parappa the Rapper and Dance Dance Revolution in order to appreciate both games? Both games have to deal with music and rhythm with some differences. Yes, those differences result in different games, but even those differences can be found in other games.

I think what would be more interesting would be to pick different vital gaming elements and then provide games that provide a good example of that.

For example, using a computer game-centric list:

Game types
Music and Rhythm games (DDR, Parappa, Samba De Amigo)
First-person shooter (DOOM, Quake)
RPG (Ultima, Might & Magic, Final Fantasy, Exile)
Online RPG (Ultima Online, EverQuest, Meridian 59)

Game art styles
Tile engines (Ultima 1-5, Exile)
Cell-shaded (Parappa, Jet Set/Grind Radio)
2.5D (DOOM, Meridian 59)
3D (Quake, Half-Life)

Notable games
Ultima 4 - introduced morality and consequences for actions in a fantasy RPG.
DOOM - introduced multiplayer games to a wider audience.

I think this would be a much more useful list for distilling what people probably should be noticing about these games. Of course, there are flaws with this as well. The business side of things has obviously influenced things, for example, but which game really introduced which business model?

My opinion,

Actually, there are some independent online RPGs out there. We just don't get the press coverage of the larger games. We also don't have as high of production values (I.E., our art isn't as pretty as the big-name games).

My own game, Meridian 59 is a typical fantasy RPG, with a heavier focus on player vs. player combat and socialization. It has a much more interesting character advancement system which is much faster than most other games.

If you like crafting or an Egyptian setting, you might try A Tale In The Desert.

If you like puzzles and pirates, try out Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates.

Want to express yourself creatively while playing an anthropomorphic animal? Furcadia might be your game.

It's kinda like movies. Sure you can go see the latest action flick starring The Rock(tm) advertised heavily on TV and magazines, or you could spend a bit of time reasearching for yourself and find a great indie movie. The indie MMORPGs are out there, you just gotta look a bit harder.

Interesting they just keep the game going, and put out new rendering engines. Always wondered why MMPOG's just scrap the game and go on, when the client can just be updated with new GFX. 1996 and the game still looks nice.

I've always wanted to see a AutoDuel MMPOG, some kind of wasteland, not all this RPG with swords. And Anarchy Online just didnt make the grade, and Star Wars Galaxy isnt hitting the mark.

Not quite.

There are costs to get that box on the shelves. Duplication, printing, distribution, storage, etc., all these things cost money to get a game on the shelves. In reality, most single-player games rarely make more than $10 or so per box after all expenses are figured, so that means the "free" month in most games is paid for by the "profit" from the box sale.

That said, however, box sales are still very necessary. People still go to their local game story and buy games they see there. Take as an example, my own game Meridian 59. The only time a box for the game was available was during the launch of the game in 1996. After that, the game went to an entirely downloadable client (with the option to purchase a CD that would be mailed to you for $10 or so). Needless to say that most people haven't heard of M59, but have heard of the larger games like Ultima Online, EverQuest, etc. Beyond that, having a box in the store and charging more gives the game a sense of legitimacy that you might otherwise lack. Some people hare hesitant to play M59 because you dont' get a physical box, therefore the game seems less "professional" and "legitimate". In all, you still need boxes on the shelves to attract large numbers of people.

This is also why expansions are sold in the stores, too. You need a "fresh" product on the shelves in order to draw new people to your game. Again, Meridian 59 has had a hard time attracting new people to the game in the 6 years it's been out. This is mostly due to lack of effective advertising and a lack of presence on the store shelves.

Even with some of the cool things we're doing, including a new rendering engine, it's still hard to get attention to the game, because we don't have a presence in the traditional channels for games, notably boxes on the shelves of game stores.

As for the subscriptions, it's hardly the cash cow it seems to be. Meridian 59 has a $10.95 monthly fee with no box to buy, making it far cheaper than most of the other games out there. The business is marginally profitable, but only because all the people working on the game are making approximately 20% of what they could be in other jobs. We're not bathing in large pools of cash because of the subscription income.

Some perspective on the matter from someone running one of these games, admittedly on the smaller scale.

Not quite.

There are costs to get that box on the shelves. Duplication, printing, distribution, storage, etc., all these things cost money to get a game on the shelves. In reality, most single-player games rarely make more than $10 or so per box after all expenses are figured, so that means the "free" month in most games is paid for by the "profit" from the box sale.

That said, however, box sales are still very necessary. People still go to their local game story and buy games they see there. Take as an example, my own game Meridian 59. The only time a box for the game was available was during the launch of the game in 1996. After that, the game went to an entirely downloadable client (with the option to purchase a CD that would be mailed to you for $10 or so). Needless to say that most people haven't heard of M59, but have heard of the larger games like Ultima Online, EverQuest, etc. Beyond that, having a box in the store and charging more gives the game a sense of legitimacy that you might otherwise lack. Some people hare hesitant to play M59 because you dont' get a physical box, therefore the game seems less "professional" and "legitimate". In all, you still need boxes on the shelves to attract large numbers of people.

This is also why expansions are sold in the stores, too. You need a "fresh" product on the shelves in order to draw new people to your game. Again, Meridian 59 has had a hard time attracting new people to the game in the 6 years it's been out. This is mostly due to lack of effective advertising and a lack of presence on the store shelves.

Even with some of the cool things we're doing, including a new rendering engine, it's still hard to get attention to the game, because we don't have a presence in the traditional channels for games, notably boxes on the shelves of game stores.

As for the subscriptions, it's hardly the cash cow it seems to be. Meridian 59 has a $10.95 monthly fee with no box to buy, making it far cheaper than most of the other games out there. The business is marginally profitable, but only because all the people working on the game are making approximately 20% of what they could be in other jobs. We're not bathing in large pools of cash because of the subscription income.

Some perspective on the matter from someone running one of these games, admittedly on the smaller scale.

It depends on the game. Meridian 59, for example, strives hard to have engaging gameplay. The game focuses on PvP combat, so we have to have engaging gameplay or people will get bored. True, this gameplay is a bit different than what you might expect if you've played a lot of single-player games.

The real draw of these games is the community. You meet other people, you make friends (and sometimes enemies), you have fun chatting with people while you're playing the game. These games foster cooperation and competition between the players; becoming a millionaire isn't fun by itself in a game, it's fun because you can compare yourself to other people. (I'm not saying this is what I like or encourange in my own game, just explaining what some players think.) This interaction is what online RPGs offer above and beyond traditional single-player RPGs.

Of course, this also limits the game somewhat. The traditional gameplay of single-player RPGs isn't directly applicable to online RPGs. You can't simply go save the princess and bring peace back to the land forever more, because that would interfere with the hundreds or thousands of other people playing the game. Story and plot take on very different meanings, and it's been a challenge for people used to the traditional linear forms of storytelling to get used to the new structures needed for online games, given that you have multiple people all playing at once and the story's pace continues with or without a single individual's participation.

Some insight from a designer,

Yep. We're located at http://www.meridian59.com/. We're even working on a new rendering engine for the game.

The trick is to stay small enough to be self-supporting until you can grow normally. I love Meridian, so we've taken steps to make sure it'll be around for a long time. :)

My thoughts,

Brian "Psychochild" Green

Check out the Official Meridian 59 Page for more info if you're curious about the game. It's a very nicely balanced PvP game with a skill-based system using a DOOM-type engine. Check out our Work in Progress page to see some work we're doing on the new rendering engine.

Personally, I'm saddened by the news because I know some of my friends and former co-workers are out of a job now. :( I wish all displaced by this news the best of luck finding new employment, especially in the Bay Area.

Take care,

Check out the Official Meridian 59 Page for more info if you're curious about the game. It's a very nicely balanced PvP game with a skill-based system using a DOOM-type engine. Check out our Work in Progress page to see some work we're doing on the new rendering engine.

Personally, I'm saddened by the news because I know some of my friends and former co-workers are out of a job now. :( I wish all displaced by this news the best of luck finding new employment, especially in the Bay Area.

Take care,

You are wrong. Retail boxes give a lot more exposure to the game than a simple download client will. People will see the game at the local EB or Best Buy and pick it up because they haven't seen the ads in other places.

I know from experience, because I run a smaller PvP-focused game, Meridian 59 that does not have the coverage that other games do. The game is a bit older (which translates to "stable" and "balanced"), but does not have the interest that a game in the stores does. While we have a reasonably sized playerbase, not requiring a box purchase in a store hasn't really gained us many more customers.

This isn't only a case of marketing, IMHO. Most online RPG players do not spend their time online looking at web sites looking for ads and reviews. Most people will pick up a game they see in the store and/or one that their friends recommend to them.

Even beyond this, the box sale generates income for the developer. Even if they make $10-15 profit from the box, this is equivalent of 1-2 months of profit from subscriptions per player. This helps offset initial development costs up front and fund more advertising efforts. Money up front is always worth more than money to be paid later.

As for free trials, this can be tricky for some games. Meridian 59 does not offer a free trial of the game on the PvP servers, since it could be very disruptive to other customers. Players coming in and building quick random PKer characters could drive away more customers than it draws.

My view on things,