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No, I'm totally for LOGO. If you use something modern like "microworlds" (see link below) then you get some OOP and audio/visual feedback as well. Think Lisp with 2D sprites and other cool stuff. My nephew was writing Lisp routines for his 2D scroller at 10 years old. Now he designs Quake levels. I'm trying to get him to push right on to C, C++ or (maybe) Java. Maybe I'll try Quake C. I want him into pointers and recursion as soon as possible. :)

It's all about graphics and games with the 'kids today', unfortunately. I had to content myself with writing a cheesy database (OPEN FOR INPUT) and sad 'games' (CALL CHAR) on my TI/994A.

One nice thing about microworlds (hate to plug something that costs $150) but it also interfaces with the LEGO NXT robot thing. You can definately engage a kid with writing LOGO for a LEGO turtle.

There are, of course, plenty of FOSS versions that do the same thing, or work with the cricket.

http://www.microworlds.com/solutions/mwex.html

http://www.microworlds.com/solutions/mwexrobotics.html

No, I'm totally for LOGO. If you use something modern like "microworlds" (see link below) then you get some OOP and audio/visual feedback as well. Think Lisp with 2D sprites and other cool stuff. My nephew was writing Lisp routines for his 2D scroller at 10 years old. Now he designs Quake levels. I'm trying to get him to push right on to C, C++ or (maybe) Java. Maybe I'll try Quake C. I want him into pointers and recursion as soon as possible. :)

It's all about graphics and games with the 'kids today', unfortunately. I had to content myself with writing a cheesy database (OPEN FOR INPUT) and sad 'games' (CALL CHAR) on my TI/994A.

One nice thing about microworlds (hate to plug something that costs $150) but it also interfaces with the LEGO NXT robot thing. You can definately engage a kid with writing LOGO for a LEGO turtle.

There are, of course, plenty of FOSS versions that do the same thing, or work with the cricket.

http://www.microworlds.com/solutions/mwex.html

http://www.microworlds.com/solutions/mwexrobotics.html

You hit the nail right on the head there. You are not proficient in use of productivity software if all you know is Word/Excel/Others. You become proficient by understanding concepts, not the nooks and crannies of one companies product. Unfortunately, my school has a forced class on Microsoft Office (I can't come up with enough curses to scream at this idea), and a forced class on "Microworlds" LOGO programming (http://www.microworlds.com/) (in which they did not teach any concepts on practical programs, but how to enumerate lists of commands with no logical processing what so ever. They recommended we buy the program, a windows only program, at home for over $100)

For additional optional computer science courses, they offer Visual Basic (using Visual Studio from '98), and C++ (using outdated books and standards), where VB is a prerequisite. Kind of makes you sick doesn't it?

I work for a group called the Learning Technology Center at the Science Museum of Minnesota.

We use Microworlds to teach 9-12 year olds how to make some pretty fun video games. Microworlds is built on top of Logo, which I still think is one of the best ways to learn programing.

But at a younger age just teaching kids how to mouse and click it pretty important. The same company that makes Microworlds also makes My Make Beleive Castle which is a great little pre-programing introduction to controlable actions.

I work for a group called the Learning Technology Center at the Science Museum of Minnesota.

We use Microworlds to teach 9-12 year olds how to make some pretty fun video games. Microworlds is built on top of Logo, which I still think is one of the best ways to learn programing.

But at a younger age just teaching kids how to mouse and click it pretty important. The same company that makes Microworlds also makes My Make Beleive Castle which is a great little pre-programing introduction to controlable actions.

Thing is, this class is only one week long. Not enough time to teach anybody anything really complicated. So forget anything that goes beyond drag-and-drop visual programming. Otherwise, I'd suggest something like MSWLogo. Or if you have a big budget, MicroWorlds.

Some of the commercial Logos (like Microworlds and Terrapin Logo) have considerably more multimedia capabilities. In some ways the language as implemented in those products is dumbed-down, though compared to any "game construction kit" or similar product, they offer tremendous flexibility. They are still real programming environments.

StarLogo is more of a computer science kind of Logo -- all about massive parrallelism. Which can be very fun and motivating as well, but probably requires a different personality to enjoy. The Free logos are still pretty much old-school, triangles on the screen kind of deals.

Of course, get her Lego Logo kits, and no one can resist that.

Some scattered thoughts:

• You can use MSW Logo for free (GPL even). It's hardly the best interface or anything, but it will do. MicroWorlds is a very popular commercial Logo environment. If you have the budget, you might use it. HyperStudio, which they probably already have, has a Logo inside it too. But don't use that, as it's a really lame environment, not to mention a crappy implementation.

• I would also like to reemphasize that you should do things in a hands-on manner. Start out right on the computer, and try to keep them working with the computer as much as possible. Try very hard to get a one-to-one computer-to-student ratio, even if it means kids get less total time on the computers. Of course this doesn't mean you should force the kids to stay at their computer -- if you are doing something fun, the kids will want badly to show each other what they are doing. If they don't want to show each other, you are doing the wrong project.

• Against my previous advice, you should do physical practice with Logo turtle commands -- i.e., have the kids order each other or you around using Logo commands. Like, have the kids navigate you around the room by using just left, right, forward, and back commands. This amuses them, because they can make you bump into tables and walk out the door. It is useful, because they'll have an easier time imagining themselves in your place than they will have imagining themselves in the turtles place.

• Of course, if you have access to Lego Logo stuff (which is expensive), use it. You'll probably enjoy that as much as the kids.

• Don't start out too quickly -- just have them draw pictures at first. Kids are surprisingly easy to amuse this way. If you have enough time, kids might be able to make games too, but very possibly not :-( MicroWorlds would make game-making much easier.

• Oh, and if you have older kids, Star Logo is a neat environment for experimenting with massively parrallel computation. And if you feel a bit more adventurous and have Macs available, maybe try Boxer, a somewhat more visual programming language with the same goals as Logo.

You also might be interested in MicroWorlds. It's a commercial product by LCSI. It's based on Logo and includes a great IDE for multimedia-web-authoring; there's also a Pro version for older kids. Their approach to children education is constructivist, meaning that students will have more meaningful learning experiences when they work on projects that interest them and have a cross-disciplinary approach. It's basically learning by doing not by listening to some boring teacher.

There are tons of projects for kids to pursue on the LCSI website. So your kids will not only learn programming but multimedia authoring, project management and, of course, math, biology or whatever science(s) their project is based on.

There are English, French and Spanish versions of the software. I highly recommend checking LCSI products out. One last and important note, LCSI was founded in 1981 by professor Seymour Papert.

You also might be interested in MicroWorlds. It's a commercial product by LCSI. It's based on Logo and includes a great IDE for multimedia-web-authoring; there's also a Pro version for older kids. Their approach to children education is constructivist, meaning that students will have more meaningful learning experiences when they work on projects that interest them and have a cross-disciplinary approach. It's basically learning by doing not by listening to some boring teacher.

There are tons of projects for kids to pursue on the LCSI website. So your kids will not only learn programming but multimedia authoring, project management and, of course, math, biology or whatever science(s) their project is based on.

There are English, French and Spanish versions of the software. I highly recommend checking LCSI products out. One last and important note, LCSI was founded in 1981 by professor Seymour Papert.