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New Zealand Rejects Office For Macs
An anonymous reader writes "The New Zealand Ministry of Education has declined to renew a licensing deal for MS Office on 25,000 Macintosh computers in the country's schools. The Education Minister has suggested that schools use the free alternative NeoOffice. The article quotes a school principal who pointed out that the NeoOffice website warns users to expect problems and bugs: 'That's not the sort of software we should be expecting kids in New Zealand to be using.'" Schools are free to buy their own copies of Office. A blog on the New Zealand Herald site argues that the Ministry should have paid Microsoft this time, but not renewed the deal and instead developed a transition plan to open source.
How about, expect problems and bugs with any software?
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
... who are the real dark Lords of Mordor after all!
My little Linux and tech blog
How much do they save, and is there a way to invest some of this money into further development of NeoOffice?
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
Neo office is HONEST and tells you you may have problems.
Microsoft lies to you by not telling you you may have problems.
The truth, ALL SOFTWARE will give you problems. Office on the mac can be very flaky. Many many mac users hate it for a reason.
Good grief, has the principal even tried Neo Office before he dismissed it out of hand?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Unfortunately the Ministry of Education has probably signed a death warrant for the adoption of an open source office package. Without planning, forethought, notice and buy-in, most projects will die on the branch. This is a poor introduction for many to open source software and will leave a sour taste.
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
I wouldn't trust NeoOffice to seamlessly handle a giant shared/published spreadsheet with lots of custom macros for dozens of users across a multi-office corporate WAN. OTOH, I'd trust it without hesitation to do anything a k-12 teacher or student would need to do with it.
Office for Mac sucks on Macs with Intel processors. I have Neo Office installed on both of my computers, but still end up using MS Office as it sucks less...
I haven't been to the NeoOffice website in a very long time, since I started to use just plain Open Office. But... the last time I was there the website had the least friendly, over the top disclaimers found any on the web, save Microsoft's "Get the Facts" FUD page.
OK so the NeoOffice developers have issues with their social skills, does this have much to do with the feature set and bugs of NeoOffice as compared with Open Office, Microsoft Office, or iWork?
Personally I think all three are way overkill for students writing papers. Hell, I don't think I've ever used more than 10 or 20% of MS Office's features and I use it work nearly every day and have for over 10 years. Is there an Open Source project like Apple's 'Pages'? This, I think, would be closer to useful and a lot more fun.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
And somewhere, a chair gets thrown in the bush...
Res publica non dominetur
If the experiences from U.K. councils and schools looking to ditch Office and Windows is anything to go by, Microsoft will probably return to the New Zealand government with an even better offer!
Microsoft are terrified of the thought of educational and public authorities ditching MS products as they know that successful operation of non-MS products in these sort of institutions will lead others - and ultimately corporations (their biggest market) - to consider alternatives.
Several U.K. local councils and schools pay virtually nothing for MS products to prevent them trialling Linux.
I've been pleasantly surprised by the speed of NeoOffice 2.1 + the latest patch.
It starts up almost immediately on a 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo iMac.
Previous versions take ages to start up.
They've also improved the GUI appearance no end from the primitive OpenOffice look and feel which is stuck in the mid 90s.
This is a perfect solution for education as it will handle all educational needs without a problem, and save the education authority and schools a lot of money. This is a sound business decision for education.
If they don't want to fight it out with NeoOffice (no idea how hard that would be, I haven't used it) why not just work with AppleWorks? I assume Apple would be reasonable, since they are not the 800lb gorilla - and they have to know getting it used in Education could only help them. (Plus, they would want to keep the Macs there as well, and I'm sure someone will eventually suggest converting to all Windows PCs as a cost savings and getting Office everywhere...)
I mean, this IS education we're talking about here. Their needs should be fairly basic - if not I would be suspicious of their teaching methods. If it were up to me I would build plans on AppleWorks but also introduce students to NeoOffice. Using both would force them to develop flexibility and the ability to learn new software. It is something they will need to do for the rest of their lives.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
I don't understand why schools let themselves get enslaved by proprietary software when kids could learn a whole lot more by experimenting with different solutions to problems.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
In my opinion the most important thing to know about computers :
1. All programs will have bugs.
2. Don't blindly trust any of them.
So a hack with little IT experience has misunderstood the current patent situation with Microsoft and Open Source Software and has written an inaccurate article for a business magazine that, shock, horror, makes it sound like OSS is actively ripping off poor little Microsoft out of spite, because we're all commies, obviously.
So where's the news?
TeX
Spot the errors:
For all computer users not paying money to Microsoft, find ways to make them pay. If using competitive products, buy competitor and get revenue stream. If using free products, find patents being violated and extort.
Basically, as long as free ($$) software can legally exist Microsoft's patent lawyers haven't done their job.
"I haven't been to the NeoOffice website in a very long time .. least friendly .. their social skills .. feature set and bugs of NeoOffice as compared with Open Office, Microsoft Office, or iWork? ...
:)
.. Based on the OpenOffice.org office suite"
What did they say exactly that got you so upset. Personally I find Emacs more than adequate, as long as you don't want rich text, and frames and bullets and a spell checker that obscures the word it asks if you want to change
"NeoOffice is a
was Re:They exaggerate
davecb5620@gmail.com
I'm the Network Manager for a small private school. Recently, our school was audited, and we found that we were short on our MS office licensing.
I proposed Open Office as a viable replacement for most of our machines. Administration would continue to use MS Office alongside of Open Office. The school's administration tried Open Office, and after a short learning curve, they liked the software. The only real complaint was that the menus were different from MS Office. Administration assumed that teaching "professionals" would learn the new software and continue on with their jobs.
It took an entire year, but the whole school was eventually migrated to Open Office, and it worked for most people. A few, very loud teachers, hated it.
Those very loud teachers made lots of noise - so much so that administration finally coughed up $11,000 for MS Office 2007.
After another lengthy deployment process, we had Office 2007 in place. Now the very loud teachers are complaining the new software is different from the old stuff.
You can't win with Teachers.
-ted
Several times recently I've been handed a PowerPoint file (from a Windows user) with graphics in it, that either fail to render, or worse that crash Microsoft PowerPoint. The files open just fine in NeoOffice... I've also used an old version of Keynote (1.1) to work around Microsoft PowerPoint bugs opening PowerPooint presentations...
dave
Am I the only one to have read "New Zealand Rejects Office For Emacs"??
It just means that ac.nz won't be buying Office Mac 2008 (or whatever the next version for Mac is) and rolling out NeoOffice on new machines. I have to admit that I'm not a big office app user but I use NeoOffice on my Macs at home and the speed and stability improvements on version 2 and the regular patching regime have made it very usable, and it will be difficult for a native port of OpenOffice to OS X to catch up. I only hope that the NZ government will see their way to giving a tenth of their licensing costs for MS Office to Neooffice.org. It might stop them worrying about money so much.
I think teachers are focusing a bit much on the means and not the end. I remembered writing papers and the teacher had no care in the world how we produced it. Typewriter, computer, rock & chisel. I think they should install OpenOffice, NeoOffice, etc. and let the kids choose the one they feel most comfortable with. On the Mac, I would personally use TextEdit to write my paper. No need for all of that extra cruft that the other *Office products have.
Check out an in-depth review of OpenOffice 2.0 (www.openoffice.org) at http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/1705. This is not NeoOffice but another open office alternative.
I am seeing some out-dated assumptions about the quality of open source software that may not be applicable here. Also, open-source is not about "free" as much as it is about harnessing a wider universe of talent and resource to create something truly outstanding for everyone's benefits. The long term benefits of exposing something like Open Office or Neo Office to a broad base of students is enormous and will ultimately increase the development and quality of the software as the user base increases.
I agree that it would have been wise of the NZME to provide some transition, especially because some of their existing MS Office documents may not import seamlessly into other formats (depending on the complexity of functionality used). However, the cost savings must be significant especially when considering licenses for multiple schools over multiple years. It seems a shame that the pain and resistance in this change might be greater than it need be, as there could be a lot of benefit for everyone involved.
Whether the software has bug is obviously out of question. It's more interesting to see how often you encounter a severe bug in a product. This should actually become a metric for any software. Something like MTBC: Mean Time Between Crash. Someone ring Gartner :-)
"Without planning, forethought, notice and buy-in"
Like how, he just dropped msOffice. This isn't rocket science, it's the adoption of a software package in schools. They already use Macs, the package runs on the Mac. Why not move the schools totally over to OpenOffice.
was: Death Knell (Score:5, Insightful)
davecb5620@gmail.com
I think it is a good thing that they will attempt to make a switch to NeoOffice. But sadly it is for the wrong reasons!
In reality, it seems like the Education Minister is just being plain old-fashioned cheap.
If they were serious about using NeoOffice/OpenOffice, but have concerns about the stability of the software, they should consider contributing to the project. There are tons of ways an Education minister can make that happen. He could encourage the IT related universities in his country to make projects that contribute to the products. He could donate cash to the NeoOffice and/or OpenOffice teams - say a mere 5% of the money they would otherwise have spent on commercial licenses? Or he could have contracted a local software company to improve (contribute) to the software for a specified amount.
Open and free software is good. But choosing it simply because the initial price tag is low (read: nil) is a bad motivation - especially for an Education Minister. And it doesen't really help the product or the community either.
An Open Source product is only as strong as its ACTIVE contributors.
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
We switched out Open/Neooffice on almost every machine (definately every mac) in the school system. So far, the only problems are people complaining that they don't know where a feature is, and the ability to imbed video in Impress.
.app to the system's fonts folder. Then set the memory cache higher. Run the program a few times and it will be much faster.
If Neooffice runs slow for you, move the fonts from the share folder inside the
Google Documents, anyone?
Mod points are a dangerous tool. Abuse them wisely.
They shouldn't need anything more than vim/emacs and a copy of latex at this point in their careers!
Salut,
Jacques
NeoOffice (now 2.1) is better than it has been, but there are some issues still, though most are with other features than operational stability (print formatting is one I can think of readily).
OpenOffice for Mac is either X11 or the 'real soon now, honest!' Aqua version. The X11 version beign that it has to go through X11 is slow and feels klunky (and feels less stable then NeoOffice).
The good points about OpenOffice/NeoOffice is it has a lot more graphics abilities (the draw layer) and as a Mac user who really likes AppleWorks Draw integration, I think Neo/OppenOffice is a much needed alternative (as Apple dumped AppleWorks first on Windows then just about to on the Mac.
I hope this article gets some excitement going in the Mac porting community to work on those projects more.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
I was making a big presentation with a lot of figures on my Macbook pro. After several days of working, the Powerpoint became extreme slow. I tried to close the file and reopen it, rename the file and all kinds of things I can imagine, but it doesn't speed up. Then I downloaded a copy of NeoOffice, it worked, way faster than the PowerPoint. However when I finished editing in NeoOffice and reopen the file in Powerpoint, all my vector drawings in windows meta format were corrupted, and the font in the sidebar became very large, (this problem can be fixed easily be changing the font size, but not many people know that the font size in the sidebar is changeable). And the editing speed in Powerpoint became normal.
Just my 2 cents.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
They tell you out in front what to expect from their software.....
You did read the EULA didn't you? No? Really?
Deleted
hire several coders and help out on this. It keeps the money local and is still cheaper.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Don't know what type of Macs are being used, but Office is still not a universal binary. The other issue is that at $500 a license it is not cheap. Now multiply that by 25000 Macs and you are looking at $12 500 000. Okay they probably don't pay full price, so lets say $200 a license and we are still talking millions of dollars worth. At that price paper looks like a great solution and it doesn't even need upgrades ;)
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
On the surface this sounds like a good business decision. Saving lots of cash on licensing. BUT can they get support for that alternate office application? If so then by all means go for it. If not, I think the minister of education needs a bit of educating.
> How on Earth do you create the *illusion* of problem free computer usage?
Advertising. This is totally unrelated to how the software works in practice.
Advertising for various commercial diets create a similar illusion. The illusion breaks down when you actually try it, just like the "problem free computer usage" illusion breaks down when you actually try to use their (or anyone elses) software.
The funny part about this article is it's assumption that the kids will suffer from using Neo Office ratherr than Windows Office. The exact opposite is true. We calcified adults have trouble using anything but Windows and Microsoft Office... our fingers have learned the keyboard shortcuts. Kids are blank slates, and weening them on FOSS can put them on the path to self discovery. The deeper you dive into a FOSS program, the more you discover. If you dive into Microsoft Office, all you get is worthless, boring bits. The article is clearly written by one of us calcified adults, ignorant of the benefits Neo Office will bring to the students.
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
Back in the day they taught us how to write our own applications and we understood how they worked and why they broke. Perhaps you should consider what it is exactly that you want to teach your children about computers.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Is there something wrong with Mac Office 2004?
They've been using it for 3 years now and it's doing great. Maybe I missed something? Are there NEW Macs without Office that need licenses, or are they simply stating that they will not be upgrading to the latest/greatest word processor and spreadsheet suite?
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Does OpenOffice run on Mac/OSX as well as it runs on Linux? Why split the "free office" market with NeoOffice, especially when both packages need more critical mass to fix bugs (apparently, NeoOffice even more)?
--
make install -not war
Considering that Microsoft has said they will pull the plug, it only makes sense to start looking for alternatives. Better do it now instead of waiting until last moment.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The New Zealand Government is going to save a bucket load of cash by using Neo Office instead of Microsoft Office. Plus they've got peace of mind that not going to get stung for going over their licences or be reported for piracy, etc.
Why not donate a significant amount to the Neo Office project each year to encourage development and/or place a bounty on features that they'd like to see included or fixed.
If every district/county/state/country did something like that we'd have the best of breed open source software in the world available for everyone to use for free.
Even though some software is free as is beer, the reason for this is so that it can truely be free as in freedom. Free as in beer doesn't stop you contributing back whatever you can to benefit everyone.
I'm no tree-hugging GPL/GNU beardy freak, but I do appriecate the efforts these guys have made for the Mac Platform and have been thinking about donating myself - even though I only downloaded and used it once to open a single document.
All they probably need is Abiword, a light and stable office compatible program. I use both NeoOffice and Abiword, they both work fine, but if you just need to type papers and stuff Abiword is better since is so light. I would never buy Microsoft software for the mac, also i thought they were going to drop support for the mac anyway.
Lessee...
Intel-native.. NeoOffice yes, MS Office no
Supports VBA macros.. NeoOffice, going to continue, MS Office eliminating macro support
Cost.. NeoOffice zero, MS Office $30-40 per seat with volume license?
The NeoOffice team just released an update patch which is supposed to speed the software up considerably. MS just released a security update, so both suites are being actively developed and updated.
NeoOffice still has a bunch of rough edges, but it has improved a lot in recent versions
...why not just use the existing version? Is there some hypercomplicated type of document the kids are making that required the new Office version? Seriously, I create detailed engineering reports on a regular basis, and I could probably do it in Word 5.1 for the Mac if my employer would let me. Or even Appleworks. Why not use that? It's free with the Macs.
When I copy/paste into Neooffice, I get just the plain text--no links are preserved. I looked through the options to try to figure it out, to no avail. Haven't opened up NeoOffice since then. If anyone knows a way to fix that problem, please tell me. You can even throw in some gratuitous "lame noob" insults if it makes you feel better.
On a side note, I really wish someone smarter than me (is that a big enough labor pool for you?) would write a print-to-pdf type program that keeps the hyperlinks intact. I don't know what mojo OpenOffice uses to preserve the hyperlinks from text copied to the clipboard, but there is no doubt a way to make a one-trick application that prints a section of html to pdf while keeping the hyperlinks intact. Yes, I'd pay for it. Any ideas?
Years ago we bought 100 copies of O2K3, we didn't renew our software subscription. We still use it. Nothing new to get excited about. As someone said before Office suites were "done" 10 years ago.
Surely the GOVERNMENT in question wouldn't be stupid enough to use what is essentially time bombed pay to play software, ie Did it have a clause saying "Do not use if you do not renew?"
http://www.writeitfor.us - Writing IT for the IT generation.
Working as the the technology admin for a school district, I can vouch for the insanity that runs through educators minds.
I'm amazed when the majority of the people tasked with teaching our children the fundamentals of computing (basic word processing etc..) in a completely controlled environment can even turn their computers on and log in. Most educators learn to navigate around in MS office and the mention of new software generally causes them to wet themselves. Anytime a move to a open source solution is discussed, it is almost immediately destroyed by administration. This is despite the fact that most public schools are extremely cash strapped and moving to open source makes immediate financial sense. This has more to do with fear than anything else. Even though education recieves discounts from MS and others, the costs can still be considered high.
Lobbying for open source office solutions makes sense in school settings for a simple reason: anyone can acquire and use this stuff at home. I can't tell you the amount of times we've had to help students convert files between platforms so we get their work to jive with MS office. Most people can't afford or are willing to purchase this software for home use, yet in schools we are using full versions of MS office.Your television will not tell you when to start the revolution.
If you are under the impression that calling Linux "Linuzz" and deprecating it for being a clone of UNIX makes you cool, you should know that your impression is quite false.
In actuality, you're a fucking retard.
The problem with fast deployment is that each and every mistake by ANYONE involved will immediately be blamed on both the software and the minister involved, no matter how trivial and no matter how much it was really the fault of the kid with the 44 oz. cup of soda who poured the drink down the back of the machine to see what would happen.
In the end, I am in favour of rapid deployment, IF AND ONLY IF that deployment is carried out by people who are knowledgeable about what they are deploying. As IPv6 demonstrates only too well, give people an inch and they'll take a mile, along with 99 other miles and at least three or four decades.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
The "transition plan" is: you can switch to NeoOffice or buy your own. Sounds like a good plan to me. They should, however, instituted the same plan for Windows users: use OpenOffice.
The "expect problems" statement on the NeoOffice site is open source conservatism. In reality, NeoOffice works fine and is as good and stable as for-pay software, if not more so.
First, (almost) all software has bugs. It's like saying: "Warning: This car needs gasoline". The implication of making it a warning is that it is significantly less stable than other products. Nothing I've seen suggests that this is true. Second, Microsoft's support is expensive and hasn't been known to resolve anything, so recommending them as a better alternative in some way is plainly untrue. Lastly, most of the bugs users of either product are likely to encounter (crashes, freezes, etc) are not resolvable by phone or e-mail - it is simply dishonest to say that support will help those who suffer from bugs.
Odds are, their disclaimer is an attempt to avoid being sued. The consequence is that those who matter, those who need the product, will be too scared to use it. A userbase is essential for the long-term survival of software, the addition of important features and the elimination of errors. Scaring potential users away is harmful to the software and isn't being fair on those who do use the product.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I use OO (Open Office) on my Sun workstation and MS Office on my desktop machine at work, as well as OO on my Linux workstation and NeoOffice on my Macbook Pro at home.
.csv formatting, and lack of scalability with its Access database. I have yet to run into similar issues, or any issues for that matter, running OO or NeoOffice.
To compare MS Office and OO/NeoOffice and say MS Office has no problems would be stretching the truth. I've had to deal with some show stoppers on MS Office - particularly its inconsistent spreadsheet support for
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Why not iWork (Pages and Keynote)? It is far superior document software, especially for creative, multi-media documents which are ideal for education. Plus it is fully integrated with iLife which is a major reason why they would choose Macintosh in the first place. I'm sure Apple would cut them an education discount. Why not iWork?
I set my wife up on her new Mac with OpenOffice in X11. She was always a Word on Windows person before. She's using it daily. There was one crash a while back, but not since updating to the latest Apple version of X11. It may be "ugly," but since she's coming from Windows, it's an ugly she's used to. She hasn't had to ask me a single question about how to use it, or had any problems exchanging .doc files various Word users (she's a freelance journalist). Maybe I should shift her to NeoOffice for the pure Mac experience, but OpenOffice ain't broke, so....
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
"Is there something wrong with Mac Office 2004?"
While Mac Office is, in and of itself, not a bad product, Microsoft hasn't gotten around to recompiling it into a universal binary and thus it runs under Rosetta. If you're just plagiarizing Wikipedia then it'll work fine, but it gets pretty bogged down if you've put together large spreadsheets of data or vector images in Powerpoint, or whatever.
Anyway, Mac Office 2004 has some issues on newer Macs.
A lot of you mention about using the old versions of office that are installed.
Let me point out something about the licensing scheme in use:
The software is licensed for a period of time, that period of time has expired.
We are now required to uninstall all copies of Office on the Mac systems, or buy it.
The Ministry has indicated that they were paying for all Macs to have Office installed,
but that only 50% of schools were actually using the office software.
This means an overpayment of 50% to Microsoft, and therefore a loss leader for the MOE.
You may also be interested to know that ALL software from MS is licensed in this manner,
and that the minute that the MOE decides not to renew any aspect of the contract we either
have to uninstall, or buy [ some of the less morally inclined will, of course, just keep running it ].
The costs for buying software out of the blue like this is staggering for a school, and in
the case of the one I work for I'll be putting Neo Office in place [ newspapers and other commentators
be damned ], and let the staff have a merry bitch fest about it. If they want to buy office for
their individual Macs, they will be welcome to do so.
What? Did we read different articles?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I use X11 OpenOffice on an Intel Mac from time to time, but it is not great. I tried Neooffice, but it crashed frequently so bad like no other App on the Mac I know of. It somehow managed to cause persistent rendering errors in the Finder - I would not consider it being anywhere near alpha stage.
.doc files you open have serious problems.
MS Office on the Mac is not better than Office on Windows, but sometimes behaves different, depending on how advanced you Documents are.
I use MS Office on Windows XP with Parallels in Coherence Mode if I have to use MS Office, this works surprisingly well.
But for new Presentations I prefer Keynote, it is so much better to use than Powerpoint, which after ten years still has redraw bugs, is often sluggish - it just sucks.
For my private text processing "pages" is fine, but like with OpenOffice about half of the foreign
If you want a rock solid All-in-One Office solution for Macs an PCs, Ragtime is also worth looking at. Version 5 was free for private use, but the new version 6 again is quite expensive except for education. (49 EUR)
But NeoOffice for me has been *by far the worst application* I ever launched on an Intel Mac, and I heard rumors that Sun is also not happy with the status of OpenOffice on the Mac and plans to help to improve it.
p.
Without order, nothing can exist. Without chaos, nothing can be created.
[T]he NeoOffice website warns users to expect problems and bugs ...
Hey, MS Office doesn't include such warnings. So obviously, MS Office doesn't have problems or bugs.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
"And that means that when he has the choice of donating money to a software development group or spending it on one of the underfunded schools throughout the country, he must spend it on the kids... And they are best served by using the money elsewhere."
No, that's not at all clear to me. It's begging the question.
*If* it's a given that things other than software are more important to the education of NZ kids, then yes, of course they're best served by spending that money elsewhere.
But if it is in fact worth $X of educational value to equip schools with MS Office, and $X-Y donated to an open source project could get you the same amount of educational value... why not donate? Just because you *can* be cheap doesn't mean you're getting good educational value for money by doing so.
(Yes, I know the economics of collective projects and marginal returns for donations gets tricky, so it's not necessarily a one-to-one value proposition... and justifying a donation politically is harder than justifying even a usurious, monopoly rent... but still. NZ's Labour government has spent lots of money on social causes considered worthwhile, even commercial ones like building up NZ music... so why should *investing* in the development of free software with huge educational and business benefits be considered a waste? Probably the cost ought to be amortized between education and business/social development ministries. But it would have a national payoff, why not invest? Spending money on free software development is a bit like putting your rent dollars toward a mortgage instead. Might cost you a bit more but in the end you get freedom.)
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
The article misses the main point. Microsoft wanted the state to pay a licence fee for EVERY Mac computer in a state school, even those without MS Office on it. The state refused, and said it was only willing to pay the fee for those computers that did have MS Office on it. Microsoft didn't accept this, so the state had no option but to stop using the Microsoft software on all of the Macs.
I wish more organizations would get out there and experience life after Microsoft...
Here is my reply to another post explaining the decision:
"Almost the entire staff and students moves around. Apart from administration, no one has their "own" computer. Having that many machines with different versions of software is a logistical nightmare.
Also, Office 2007 has the ability to save in a new XML based format. Users will not be able to exchange those new documents without the new version of the software.
I have forced the default format via group policies as the "2003" version, but that does not stop a user from using the "save as" function. Deploying the same software universally prevents file exchange issues."
Have you had the burden of supporting a large network with a large userbase? What happens to support requirements as the software base grows more diverse? The support requirements go up. Our network is maintained, not for the comfort of the users. It is maintained for the business of teaching students.
I'm sure that if a construction or assembly line worker threw a fit when his favorite welder was replaced management would show that person the door. Software is no different, it is a tool used to complete a task. The nature of progress means change. If you don't want to learn the new tools, you can find another place of employment.
-ted
I believe you are essentially wrong for many reasons.
I did not ignore anything. I tried to explain the reason behind my arguments. I clearly failed in reaching that objective, since you totally missed the points and continue with rude, selfish and shortsighted speeches. I will try again, and hope it gets a little more clear with each posting.
I disagree totally. And the minister would disagree too if he had any senses at all. He must be an educated man so I am pretty sure he would understand the implications if they were explained to him.
Open Source software contributes to New Zealand schools. That is an undisputable fact, since the software will now be used in said schools - encouraged by the Minister of Education. The issue at hand is, that for the many reasons I have explained earlier, New Zealand should return a small contribution to the software and the community from which it now benefits. The relationship between the New Zealand schools and the Open Source software community should be symbiotic in nature. Not parasitic (hard words - yes - but please just follow the analogy).
Ahemm ... *NOT* random!!! I am proposing that the New Zealand schools contribute to the projects from which they benefit. That is not random at all.
That is not at all what I am saying. With all respect, please brush up on your English lessons and read the contents of my posts. You have missed close to all the key points in them.
... were did that software come from? Did it program itself? Was it summomed by magic powers? Was it typed on typewriters by a trillion monkeys until one of them randomly ended up making a large OSX compliant office suite? The answer is: It was programmed by hard working people who contributed to the project. So in essence the New Zealand schools would be in absolutely NO position to get free and open software without this community. Since we have established that the scools cannot exist without this software the only remaing option would be to buy it.
The New Zealand schools may very well be under funded. One of the ways to solve that problem is to reduce IT spending.
I think we would both agree that a modern school can not function without providing basic IT infrastructure to its students. So it is impossible to simply throw away all computers. We need to make them cheaper to purchase and utilize.
One of many solutions is to use Free Open Sorce Software (FOSS). The price tag pretty much speaks for itself. So the schools get the free software, and everybody (except Microsoft) is happy. But wait
So yes - the New Zealand schools (and therefore the state of New Zealand) owns a favor to that community. You reaped the benefits from its hard work - the very least you could do is be honest about it.
The reason is not "just because". The reason is that you are using something other people worked hard on. And you should contribute to the continued existence of the projects you now depend on. Being selfish and cheap will not ensure your continued use of free and open software.
Your selfishness has no end has it
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
Somewhat less "buggy" than Macroslop Oriface 04 on my G4 iBook, I'll tell you! Concern over the "warning" on the NeoOffice website is just their honesty being misconstrued, I'd guess. I want to move my kids to New Zuhland, they have Macs in the schools there still! Macroslop's hegemony over Australia is about complete :-(
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
If open source is good enough to use on the Macs, why not windows too? You could get some pretty nice open source stuff if the NZ Government put the money they would spend on Microsoft licences into the OpenSource community instead. Open Office is what should be used, because people can then legally have the same office suite at home as they do at school. I would still recommend using Windows as the operating system, but they should be using open source software.