Slashdot Mirror

Many have also lost upwards of $20k/year because their wages were pushed down by

There is no indication that salaries for welders have gone down:

http://www.myplan.com/careers/...

And, yes, if you command $70k for welding (a really high end salary), you're overqualified for jobs that can be done by people making half as much. And a lot that high end speciality welding has just been taken over by other manufacturing methods.

So far the only skilled workers that haven't been hit are pipe fitters, machinists and mechanics(gas/diesel/jet), but they're trying really hard to push the people who live here in north america and are diesel/jet mechanics out and get TFW's or other replacements in.

Their jobs are becoming increasingly obsolete, with CNCs, electric vehicles, and new technologies. What's left is only the low-skill jobs, which, not surprisingly, will be handled by low cost, low skill labor.

We don't need no cotton spinners! Let them wear silk!

I'll mourn the loss of textile-related jobs inasmuch as I'd like to see more folks employed here in the US, but these jobs still exist -- they're just being done in Pakistan or some other eastern country where poor folks are willing to do more for less. I do have a certain lack of sympathy for people who choose to be loom operators rather than studying hard and doing something a little more creative, but someone with a PHD is likely to have a certain lack of sympathy for me because I only studied hard enough to get a bachelor's degree.

Telling them that programmers make good money is definitely a way to generate interest. Computer Software Engineers make about twice the average salary in the United States and salary growth has been consistent for years. It probably wouldn't hurt to point out some of the folks who have made a fortune in the software business.

I wanted to program games when I was about their age and still do. I remember that I found the prospect of learning a language quite daunting and didn't understand why all the cosine/sine/tangent functions were necessary. Having since programmed some crappy little games, I realize that the motion of objects on a screen is all about trigonometry or geometry. Had someone explained to me back then why I would need all those weird mathy functions, it would have done me a great service I think. Uh, I'm rambling. I guess my point is that math is extremely helpful when programming games. You might want to also explain how stuff like databases or other technical stuff are really important and useful too. For example, storing high scores (or inventories of weapons/armor/whatever) are easily accomplished with a database. If you spend some time explaining why they have to learn the "boring" stuff by giving examples of how it's used, they might be more inclined to slog through it to actually become a game programmer.

Another thing they might find extremely useful to know is what technologies might get them started without having to shell out money for an integrated development environment or a server. For instance, all you need is a browser and a text editor to start working with HTML and Javascript. If they want to write a game, perhaps you could demonstrate some simple code that listens for keystrokes and moves a DIV tag or image around the screen.

And lastly, you might want to point out how there's a huge difference between being a computer scientist and just building websites for a living. It can be a simple vocation or it can be an abstract, theoretical endeavor.

it != cs

Telling them that programmers make good money is definitely a way to generate interest. Computer Software Engineers make about twice the average salary in the United States and salary growth has been consistent for years. It probably wouldn't hurt to point out some of the folks who have made a fortune in the software business.

I wanted to program games when I was about their age and still do. I remember that I found the prospect of learning a language quite daunting and didn't understand why all the cosine/sine/tangent functions were necessary. Having since programmed some crappy little games, I realize that the motion of objects on a screen is all about trigonometry or geometry. Had someone explained to me back then why I would need all those weird mathy functions, it would have done me a great service I think. Uh, I'm rambling. I guess my point is that math is extremely helpful when programming games. You might want to also explain how stuff like databases or other technical stuff are really important and useful too. For example, storing high scores (or inventories of weapons/armor/whatever) are easily accomplished with a database. If you spend some time explaining why they have to learn the "boring" stuff by giving examples of how it's used, they might be more inclined to slog through it to actually become a game programmer.

Another thing they might find extremely useful to know is what technologies might get them started without having to shell out money for an integrated development environment or a server. For instance, all you need is a browser and a text editor to start working with HTML and Javascript. If they want to write a game, perhaps you could demonstrate some simple code that listens for keystrokes and moves a DIV tag or image around the screen.

And lastly, you might want to point out how there's a huge difference between being a computer scientist and just building websites for a living. It can be a simple vocation or it can be an abstract, theoretical endeavor.

Computer Programmers are tracked separately from Computer Software Engineers - Applications or Computer Software Engineers - Systems. And salaries vary by city, state, and industry. You may find these links interesting:

http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1021.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1031.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1032.00

Be sure to hover over the "details" link as it will give you more detail on salary distribution.

As for the question "is it lucrative?" I think the answer is definitely yes as both salaries and total employment are increasing. Especially when you check out the employment numbers for 'sewing machine operator'. Despite gradually increasing salaries, total employment has shown a rapid decline:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/5.php?onet=51-6031.00

Or maybe check out dishwashers salaries:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4.php?onet=35-9021.00

Less than $18k per year and employment is flat.

Computer Programmers are tracked separately from Computer Software Engineers - Applications or Computer Software Engineers - Systems. And salaries vary by city, state, and industry. You may find these links interesting:

http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1021.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1031.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1032.00

Be sure to hover over the "details" link as it will give you more detail on salary distribution.

As for the question "is it lucrative?" I think the answer is definitely yes as both salaries and total employment are increasing. Especially when you check out the employment numbers for 'sewing machine operator'. Despite gradually increasing salaries, total employment has shown a rapid decline:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/5.php?onet=51-6031.00

Or maybe check out dishwashers salaries:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4.php?onet=35-9021.00

Less than $18k per year and employment is flat.

Computer Programmers are tracked separately from Computer Software Engineers - Applications or Computer Software Engineers - Systems. And salaries vary by city, state, and industry. You may find these links interesting:

http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1021.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1031.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1032.00

Be sure to hover over the "details" link as it will give you more detail on salary distribution.

As for the question "is it lucrative?" I think the answer is definitely yes as both salaries and total employment are increasing. Especially when you check out the employment numbers for 'sewing machine operator'. Despite gradually increasing salaries, total employment has shown a rapid decline:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/5.php?onet=51-6031.00

Or maybe check out dishwashers salaries:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4.php?onet=35-9021.00

Less than $18k per year and employment is flat.

Computer Programmers are tracked separately from Computer Software Engineers - Applications or Computer Software Engineers - Systems. And salaries vary by city, state, and industry. You may find these links interesting:

http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1021.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1031.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1032.00

Be sure to hover over the "details" link as it will give you more detail on salary distribution.

As for the question "is it lucrative?" I think the answer is definitely yes as both salaries and total employment are increasing. Especially when you check out the employment numbers for 'sewing machine operator'. Despite gradually increasing salaries, total employment has shown a rapid decline:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/5.php?onet=51-6031.00

Or maybe check out dishwashers salaries:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4.php?onet=35-9021.00

Less than $18k per year and employment is flat.

Computer Programmers are tracked separately from Computer Software Engineers - Applications or Computer Software Engineers - Systems. And salaries vary by city, state, and industry. You may find these links interesting:

http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1021.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1031.00
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4st.php?onet=15-1032.00

Be sure to hover over the "details" link as it will give you more detail on salary distribution.

As for the question "is it lucrative?" I think the answer is definitely yes as both salaries and total employment are increasing. Especially when you check out the employment numbers for 'sewing machine operator'. Despite gradually increasing salaries, total employment has shown a rapid decline:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/5.php?onet=51-6031.00

Or maybe check out dishwashers salaries:
http://myplan.com/careers/db/4.php?onet=35-9021.00

Less than $18k per year and employment is flat.