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well... if any power plants burn down... i guess it's good that Cali doesn't support nuclear power plants... they could have a Civ2:CallToPower nuclear fall out zone to clean up...

oh wait... boom boom

well... looks like they lucked out this time :)

fun nuke link for ya from the nuclear power industry.

Chris DiBona

Thanks, that's interesting. Of course, it conflicts with a lot of what I've read, but a lot of what I've read conflicts, too. :)

My understanding from many sources is that a breeder can produce material of 20-30% Pu. Yes, it "can breed more fissionable fuel than it burns" but that new fuel is (as I understand it) exactly the Pu-239 we fear. All Pu comes from reactors, anyway, it's just a question of technique, esp. removing the material after a brief bombardment by appropriate-speed neutrons.

Bombarded Pu-rich reactor fuel is not the only problem, there's also the fuel-grade Pu after reprocessing. I've seen a couple of accounts of fuel-grade Pu bombs detonated, and I assume if one had the facilities to purify the fuel it would be even easier.

There are serious technical hurdles to engineering the actual bomb, but here we want to deny them even the fuel. Plenty of countries have surmounted the techincal end, anyway, such as Pakistan. Even a sloppy detonation would be bad enough. BTW, I'm not thinking about terrorists, unless they somehow stole a complete weapon. They'd take the surer low-tech path of a dirty bomb or flying a plane into a building, etc. Terrorists with nukes are a Hollywood thing for now.

On policy, here is a rather different account of why we don't reprocess -- economics. According to this account, Reagan vacated the Carter order in 1981. Truth?

What? no? Well if you don't agree then I have to consider you to be one of them, so I'll have to kill you too.

So, you'll hand them over only if we show you proof...Hmm, no that's unreasonable, I think I'd rather just kill you too rather than risk any problems for myself. You'll put him on trial? No, that's a charade of a trial you mean, not like our well run justice system that is *only* asking to take your countrymen and kill them without showing you any proof of guilt.

p.s. I hope your happy when there are 100,000 more dead American civilians because in all honesty, that's a minimum of estimate of what's going to happen. I would guess that one of our nuclear plants or waste sites is going to be "opened to the sky". Though they're now planning to add a few soldiers to some of them, I'll give you even odds one of them is blown up within the next 5 years. And hey, if it's Calvert Cliffs in good 'ole Lusby, Md then there won't be any president Bush or Cheney or most any of congress or the Supreme Court. And all it takes is one person inside the plant. What fun!

After doing some more research on the internet, I need to rectify some facts:
Since 1986, no more that two reactors of the Chornobyl plant, have been operative..

In 1991, one of the two reactors caught fire and was taken offline and was taken back online in 1995. Currently there's only one reactor operational, the second one was taken offline in 1997 because it exceeded it's lifespan. The remaining reactor, is in such a bad shape, that it needs a half year of service for every half year of operation. Ukrainia has scheduled the last reactor to shut down before 01-01-2000, but is now probably forced to use it until end Q2 Y2K, because they still haven't received any money to finish building their new power plants and winters are very harsh over there..

Currently, Ukrainia had only power 22/24 hours, before powering up #3 and the Ukrainain public transport is largly electrical powered.


In the first year after the accident, the number of cleanup workers in the zone was estimated to be 211,000, and these workers received an estimated average dose between 165-250 millisievert (16.5 rem). In total, around 600-800,000 workers have been involved since 1986 and around 8000-10000 of them died.

Right after the accident, the main health concern involved radioiodine, with a half-life of eight days. During which those 135.000 people were not evacuated.. Today, there is concern about contamination of the soil with cesium-137, which has a half-life of about 30 years.
It is true that the reactors themself are based on old analogue technologies, but the powergrid, auxialiary control units and power backup units aren't.

The POWERGRID and NOT the reactor itself perse, is THE main Y2K concern, according to the CIA.
If the powergrid fails or miscommunication etc, the 5 powerplants Ukrainia has, have to be taken off-line. The ironony is, that reactors need power from the grid to be able be be shutdown, as the Chernobyl test disaster prooved. It is feared, that the current power backup system takes to long to get online, altough it has been improved (providing it is not hit by a y2k problem).

America has offered to send batteries and power generators and also offered to improve current reactors.. But is hindered by politics.. I'm in general anti-America, but it seems like America is the only one who cares.. The G7 still hasn't payed.

How precare is the situation of #4 at the moment?
* In 1991, the Chornobyl plant suffered from an earthquake.
* There is leaking rain water into the "sarcophagus" of unit 4, causing massive corrosion and major damage of the structural integerity as robot surveying showed. There's imminent need of $700,000 todo some very short term repairs to #4, but money lacks...
* #4 contains still 70% of it's original fuel in dust form.. The roof of the 'sargophagus' is imminent to collapse. Does the term 'fall out' ring a bell to anyone? If it would collapse, the disaster would be much much bigger than in 1986.. Providing it won't ignite the nuclear fuel in #3, causing a real global disaster, which is a real fear.
And don't forget the 1991 fire..

Russia and Lithuania still also are using 14 RBMK light water graphite reactors such as at Chornobyl. The RMBK 1000 model VVER 440-230 in Novovoronezh NPP (Russia), the same as used in Chornobyl, has already failed 17 times, during it's life...
Some article on Sovjet reactors.
Some other articles: Russia today , more info this and this

"The odds of a meltdown are one in 10,000 years. The plants have safe and reliable controls that are protected from any breakdown with three safety systems." Vitaly Sklyarov, Minister of Power for the Ukrainian SSR., February 1986