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Very astute, and I hope no one will be suprised when the release performs exactly as you say... for anyone who has used Office98 (a Mac-only release), or even read the benchmarks, Im sure you know what I mean...

When PowerPC-based machine performs an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE slower than a comparable x86 box in Excel on raw calculations you think someone would be fired, but Im sure the marketing genius in charge of insuring crippling performance in Mac apps gets a bonus everytime they make another office worker convert because of unacceptible performance.

Sure, launch time may not be as bad as Word 6.0 was (we're talking two-digit minute counts), but at least once it ran it didnt seem especially lame... Office98 runs like a mangey, one-legged pony.


Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

Well said! The world can, as we all did, come to Linux, and not the other way around... there is no need to waste precious time and focus (since money has been traditionally less of a currency in this community) "battling" Microsoft when I think its ridiculous to even lump the two together as opponents... proprietary OS developers have no interest in the goals and strategies of the OSS community, and likewise, save vendors like RedHat, we should pay no interest to what they consider "business" since Linux wasn't created as a commercial product to begin with...

anyways, lets all just turn our noses and not even glance sideways at those devils in Washington... comparing Linux to NT only makes those presenting the comparison look like fools because they miss the point of OSS entirely... the goal isnt to compete with proprietary, it is to provide viable alternatives for those brave and pioneering geeks among us :) maybe someday the OSS syndrome will be significantly dominant that producing proprietary software will not be realistic, and until then, just ignore the other side.

Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

There is no Office97 for Mac... they are staggering releases between platforms, so Mac users got Office98 and Exlorer 4.5.

In any case, all their claims about Office98 being a Mac-native app are obviously bullshit, no app without 10 nested compatibility/abstractions layers would possibly be as slow and resource-hungry as it is. Its features are totally counter-intuitive, and forget about large documents or intensive uses, all the modules will crumble on the mightiest, and slablest, of machines.
Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

Yeah, no kidding.. now no one will be able to use the excuse "i hate seeing this crap on Slashdot so i submit flamebait" when they dont enjoy the articles... maybe the KDE and Gnome crowds will mutually exclude each other, as maybe all those ready to jump on any non-Linux OS story or editorial will exclude the BeOS and FreeBSD threads.

I personally wanna read every article on Slashdot... I mean, jeez, does it REALLY take that much time or energy to read an extra 200 words?
Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

Actually I think he made his point quite nicely, if not technically.. basically, yes, most Mac apps, even when "multithreaded", dont take advantage of SMP unless explicitly coded for it, though I do have a large number of apps that have some serious punch on my dual-604e motherboard, and these are the apps youd expect it from (ezcept servers). Most 3d apps have support for it, and i believe it scales pretty well up to 4 cpus... I dont know of any SMP-capable servers or databases for the legacy MacOS, but OS X is a different game.

Is it your belief that a monothreaded x86 app would somehow distribute its load across multiple processors? I very much doubt this...

As far as MacOS X supporting SMP *EVENTUALLY*, there seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding regarding this... OS X Server 1.0 should be fully SMP capable, though the current line of PPC 750s arent gonna be spawning any dual-cpu models because of a weakness of the 750 ("G3")... tho there have been some interesting demos of 750-based SMP systems.

In any case, there is absolutely nothing preventing SMP in MacOS X, just the current CPU line, which is coming close to be cycled out at the high-end anyways... and, thank GOD, one nice legacy ball-and-chain will be gone in that we will no longer have to choose between virtual memory (swap) and SMP... i dont care what happy-happy-joy-joy Mac Evangelist lays his touchy-feely crap on me, that is one pain Ive lived with for far too long (though its a great excuse to have every DIMM slot filled with the big ones).

No, this definitely isnt Mac Evangelism... it brought tears to my eyes to see the true potential of my SMP box the first time I loaded BeOS on it.

One GREAT app for these machines (dual 604e based boxes) is running Distributed.net clients... I just loved comparing my keyrates with my Intel brethren :)
Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

>> Rather than porting ANY Open Source OS to a company that is ANTI Open Source or to a dead
>>platform, why not support the projects to port to LIVE hardware?

Well, there are lots of ports of great software to "dead" platforms, thats what keeps em alive... and no one ports anything to "a company that is ANTI Open Source...", just to its products, which provides value ONLY to the user, not the company (in this case Apple/Newton Inc.).

Why not just support any such ambitious projects? I have owned several Newtons, still carry my favorite of the bunch, a clear-case 110, an ancient beast yet it still provides me pleasurable use daily, and aside from the lack of backlighting and a little more heft (which is actually good, it feels solid when Im drawing on it), is WAY better than the Palm III I also carry. The Palm III is great for its compact size, but Ive never gotten used to its Graffiti and it always suprised me that their designs are so clunky (squared edges, awkard and everchanging serial port interface) and the stylus' so flimsy.

Hey, ever seen a web server running on a newton? nhttp i think its called... all those articles a while back about mini web servers gave me a good chuckle as id seen tiny devices (WITH LCD and powersupply) server pages long before :)


Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

This will probably be my shortest post of the day:

Well said!

Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

I think Ill agree with you, as we certainly cannot force admiration of any particular object on the psyches of those who dont already admire said object.

However, admiration aside, I think there is a valid point to be made in that, while we are primarily a grassroots, user-fed community, there exists a small group of leaders without whom none of this would be possible... I think even limiting RMS' recognition to his contribution of the GNU portions of Linux is rather short-sighted, as he has also been one of the most vocal advocates of the very system we have built for much longer than it has formally existed.

I dont think we should start calling Linux GNU/Linux (and GOD, never GNUlix), its too late for that... but as this platform grows in size, the collective consciousness here becomes less aware of its roots, and less aware of its "debt" to people like RMS, and thats a shame. Maybe something as simple as a system of honors and awards is due.


Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

Actually I completely agree with you... Im always happy to have a good discussion on the meaning of this movement, occassionally I just get fed up with the distasteful, and downright hypocritical, personal attacks.

I apologize for my own lack of tolerance, I only wish we could resist the infighting that will probably be the chief detractor, in the long-term, of the OSS and Linux movements.


Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

Well, I certainly read the whole thread, I just take offense to anyone attempting to LIMIT the respect and recognition of the Gettys and Stallmans of the world rather than supporting their hopes for it... I see nothing negative about RMS, and would certainly, equally, support Gettys if he felt a need to emphasize his lack of acknoqledgement... i think these people have all done a great service to us and deserve hero-worship from ever one of us.


Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

Why dont you go screw yourself, maybe then YOULL have kids Mr Bronson.

But really, what fucking business is it of ANY of us whether he wants to have kids or not, how and when, why and with whom... WTF does that have to do with his obviously underappreciated, yet highly significant, contributions to the "Linux" world?

Just looking through todays posts I think we have ENOUGH unwanted children just on SlashDot, let alone on the streets...
Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

So should we also look over jim Gettys, and not provide him proper community admiration, even WHEN WE KNOW BETTER?

Come on, its not like we havent ALL known ALL along that RMS is GNU, theres no excuse in anonmity because there never was any, the real reason is bitterness and plain, outright betrayal.
Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,

I cant tell you how disgusted I am at the CONTINUING backstabbing within the community, the seeming LACK OF TOLERANCE, and general disdain for those who arent the leaders of the day (especially those who held the title yesterday).

Regardless of personality flaws, which I would bet we all share pretty equally, RMS has done a GREAT deal for the movement... shit, who cares if he doesnt own his own equipment, that to me is pretty straight inline with his stated philosophies, and no matter how counter-culture he is, WHY THE HELL cant we accept that.

Do you people REALLY care about him not wanting children, not wanting to work, not wanting to even own his own machine? The answer is NO!, strenuously... the chief concern here seems to be to kick him while hes down.

Id say the most important part of the GPL is its efforts to maintain proper credits for work done, not to control payment of licensing terms (or lack thereof), and I think, out of everyone, RMS and GNU seems to be the only crew we're willing to publicly deny that proper credit to...

I also absolutely BELIEVE that informed people primarly do not use the term "GNU/Linux" because it IS too damn awkward...

Give the man some credit, he had these ideas when most of us, Linus included, were eating dirt in the sandbox in kindergarten.

When we loook back in a few years, I believe we will see the ultimate loss of men like RMS and Bruce Perens from the flock as one of the turning points, and I dont think itll appear as the right turn...

Linus, save me from your followers.
Binary Boy

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
-- Derek Bok,