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According to The National Hydrogen Association, this morning there were 72 fully operational battle^H^H^H fueling stations in the United States and Canada. ( I wonder how long it will take them to update their database?)

"U.S. & Canadian
Stations as of 8/26/2010
Operational: 72
Planned: 24"

http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/general/fuelingSearch.asp

If we guess that the mean age is 5 years ( Reasonable since 1/3 growth is currently planned, suggesting rapid expansion) That would be about 360 station years of operating experience. So in a given year a Hydrogen station has about a 1/360 chance of exploding. If there were 1000 stations built (20 per state) then about one a day would explode.

This analysis has the problem of a small sample size. (Was there a 0% failure rate up to now?) Hopefully, this case will be examined and its failure mode eliminated from future operations.

Now to make the comparison for gasoline:

For 2002 the Economic Census Industry Series Report indicates that there were 120,902 gasoline stations (126,889 in 1997)

The Petroleum Equipment Institute has some tracking of fires at stations. From 1992 to 2010 they have reports of approximately 200 fires that appear to be ESD related. 120,000 stations * 18 years > 2 million station years and 200 incidents give about 1/10,000 chance that a station will have an ESD fire event in a given year.

Of course not all fires are ESD related, recent years have had very few, not all fires are big explosions and gasoline stations get used much much more often (this Hydrogen station was reported to be used about once a day)

Example of presumed ESD caused gas station fire.

So if you ignore the fact that gas station could easily be used >100 of times a day instead of once a day, then the risk looks to be only about 30x greater for Hydrogen for an ESD linked fire.

Petroleum Equipment Institute: ESD data

According to The National Hydrogen Association, this morning there were 72 fully operational battle^H^H^H fueling stations in the United States and Canada. ( I wonder how long it will take them to update their database?)

"U.S. & Canadian
Stations as of 8/26/2010
Operational: 72
Planned: 24"

http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/general/fuelingSearch.asp

If we guess that the mean age is 5 years ( Reasonable since 1/3 growth is currently planned, suggesting rapid expansion) That would be about 360 station years of operating experience. So in a given year a Hydrogen station has about a 1/360 chance of exploding. If there were 1000 stations built (20 per state) then about one a day would explode.

This analysis has the problem of a small sample size. (Was there a 0% failure rate up to now?) Hopefully, this case will be examined and its failure mode eliminated from future operations.

Now to make the comparison for gasoline:

For 2002 the Economic Census Industry Series Report indicates that there were 120,902 gasoline stations (126,889 in 1997)

The Petroleum Equipment Institute has some tracking of fires at stations. From 1992 to 2010 they have reports of approximately 200 fires that appear to be ESD related. 120,000 stations * 18 years > 2 million station years and 200 incidents give about 1/10,000 chance that a station will have an ESD fire event in a given year.

Of course not all fires are ESD related, recent years have had very few, not all fires are big explosions and gasoline stations get used much much more often (this Hydrogen station was reported to be used about once a day)

Example of presumed ESD caused gas station fire.

So if you ignore the fact that gas station could easily be used >100 of times a day instead of once a day, then the risk looks to be only about 30x greater for Hydrogen for an ESD linked fire.

Petroleum Equipment Institute: ESD data

I'm not real sure what the point is. Are you alleging that hydrogen stations today are more dangerous than gasoline stations today?

The National Hydrogen Association claims 72 operational stations in the US and Canada. The first hydrogen station in North America was opened in 2000. Pharmacies in Germany started selling gas in 1888, the first purpose-built gas station was built in 1905. I can't find any statistics for the rate of fires at gas stations during the first 10 years they were around.

I did find this, though. That says that since January 2000, the same year the first hydrogen station opened in North America, that there were around 200 reported incidents of fires at gas stations started by static electricity alone (as opposed to open flames or running engines). So in the last 10 years we've had 1 incident at a hydrogen station, and over 200 incidents at gas stations caused by static alone.

You know what they say about statistics though.

Once again people post crap without looking anything up....aside from being off topic you're wrong. Here are several articles from the cell phone and petroleum industries which are provided below to give you the correct information.

Petroleum Equipment Institute (PEI)-

                        http://www.pei.org/static/

Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association (CTIA) -

                        http://www.ctia.org/news_media/press/body.cfm?reco rd_id=377

                        http://www.ctia.org/news_media/press/body.cfm?reco rd_id=407

Urban Legends -

                        http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

American Petroleum Institute (API) -

                        http://api-ec.api.org/media/index.cfm?objectid=4BB B0597-308E-49BE-9F513DE9A8B0C156&method=display_bo dy&er=1&bitmask=001007000000000000

Wired News -

                        http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,58188,00 .html

From the PEI Website
"PEI has been in contact with the fire marshall in New Paltz, NY to learn more about this incident. It turns out the initial reports were not accurate. Patrick Koch, the fire chief of New Paltz, NY offered PEI this statement:

"After further investigation of the accident scene and another discussion with the victim of the May 13 gasoline station fire in New Paltz, I have concluded the source of ignition was from some source other than the cell phone the motorist was carrying. Although we will probably never know for sure, the source of ignition was most likely static discharge from the motorist himself to the nozzle dispensing gasoline."
"

The Discovery Channel show "Mythbusters" did an item on this a while ago. They were unable to ignite a plexiglass enclosure filled with gasoline fumes by using a cellphone, and concluded that if anything, these accidents happen because of static electricy. They also mentioned that women are more likely to get this kind of accident, because more often than men, women get back in their car while refueling. The report mentioned above is particularly interesting in that regard, as the first few screenfulls exclusively mention people getting back in their car while refueling, and most of them are women.

First thing's first. The MythBusters program is meant mainly for entertainment purposes. On many occasions both Jamie and Adam (the hosts) state their position towards a topic, which usually is 'we aren't experts.' The MythBusters are neither a scientific institute nor a regulated body for research of such matters. Take their findings to heart when it comes to things like ice bullets or the physics of firing a chicken out of a cannon. When it comes to your own personal safety, do some research for yourself and use common sense. Personally, I would never talk on a cell phone at a gas station (it seems a little rude), but it is with me at all times.
WGN, a Chicago television station, quoted David Sykuta of the Illinois Petroleum Council as saying, "The truth is there has never been an explosion at a gas station from a cell phone." (link) In addition, Wired put out an article of a similar nature quoting Robert Renkes, a spokesperson for the Petroleum Equipment Institute, as saying "We have not found a cell phone responsible for any fire since the beginning of mankind." (link)
If you want more information on from the Petroleum Equipment Institute you can visit their site and find other articles about cell phones and other ESD information.

A flight line is certainly a far more hazardous place than a gas station. That is more of a mitigating risk based on the environment kind of thing. I wouldn't use any electronic device if I were, say, soaked in gasoline, regardless of how "safe" or "approved" it was.

I did find an official Navy response. (Yeah, not Air Force, I know, but should be similar.) Their conclusion? It could be possible to start a fire using a cellphone. However, their hypothetical solution to generate the correct voltage and spark requires dropping the phone, and having a spark generate when the battery pops off. Anyway, until we have one proven case where a cellphone has caused a fuel fire, I am going to continue to chalk it up to an urban legend.

Getting in and out of your car during refueling is much more dangerous, and that is not just MHO, but fact. How so? According to the Petroleum Equipment Institute, they do not have a single known case of a cell phone causing a fire. They have an entire page devoted to static electricity. (Of course, it is only fair to mention that ALL refueling fires are extremely rare to begin with, regardless of ignition source.)

A flight line is certainly a far more hazardous place than a gas station. That is more of a mitigating risk based on the environment kind of thing. I wouldn't use any electronic device if I were, say, soaked in gasoline, regardless of how "safe" or "approved" it was.

I did find an official Navy response. (Yeah, not Air Force, I know, but should be similar.) Their conclusion? It could be possible to start a fire using a cellphone. However, their hypothetical solution to generate the correct voltage and spark requires dropping the phone, and having a spark generate when the battery pops off. Anyway, until we have one proven case where a cellphone has caused a fuel fire, I am going to continue to chalk it up to an urban legend.

Getting in and out of your car during refueling is much more dangerous, and that is not just MHO, but fact. How so? According to the Petroleum Equipment Institute, they do not have a single known case of a cell phone causing a fire. They have an entire page devoted to static electricity. (Of course, it is only fair to mention that ALL refueling fires are extremely rare to begin with, regardless of ignition source.)