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Well, rebel took down only their main page so google's cache comes in handy here. Also, the only links of any importance on that page are to their Netwinder division, and to the Enterprise pages, both of which still work right now.

In case the links stop working, or Google gets moody, the following pages link to google's caches:

• www.netwinder.net
• www.netwinder.org
• www.rebel.com
• www.rebel.com/enterprise.html

Well, rebel took down only their main page so google's cache comes in handy here. Also, the only links of any importance on that page are to their Netwinder division, and to the Enterprise pages, both of which still work right now.

In case the links stop working, or Google gets moody, the following pages link to google's caches:

• www.netwinder.net
• www.netwinder.org
• www.rebel.com
• www.rebel.com/enterprise.html

when it was still Corel's and I was appalled at how unfocused they were.

At the time, we (Comp Eng @ U of Toronto) were visiting Corel on a career exploration field trip to Ottawa (this was 2 years ago). We visited Corel Corp. and were very unexcited - nobody there could give us a cute motivational speach on why it's so great to work for Corel. The best point seemed to be "we get free cola."

Then we went to Corel Computer. Nobody was excited after what we saw in the software division. But I was just amazed at what I saw in this office. At the time, they were finishing work on the NetWinder. This was the first I had heard of it and the idea of it was fascinating. The technical team was inspired. Our jaws dropped to the floor. Here were these people showing us a 15W computer that was powerful and extensible enough to be a web server, a development workstation, a tv set top box, a gaming machine, and pretty much anything else you wanted to push it to.. like a cluster on a common fibre backbone in one box (10 of these babies). This seemed like the future's primordial soup. Anything seemed possible.

The marketing people showed us all this and then I popped the question, "what are you guys going to sell this as?" They didn't know.. they had all these ideas and couldn't tell us what this was going to be sold as first. No marketing plan whatsoever. The box ran Corel Linux and KDE, I believe. The web server version could boot the system from memory for instant reboots. The web server cluster was supposed to be hot swappable soon (8 server and 2 controller motherboards in one box).

The whole place was wholly behind open source and linux. This machine caused some commotion at Microsoft from what I heard - it was that neat! (or at least this is the impression I got)

So what happened next? Nothing... I was stupefied, but I didn't hear about this thing until the division was sold to these rebel.com people who aren't really doing anything with it either and the technology is aging. They should've ipo'ed long ago and financed a marketing campaign for this thing.

This seems to be the trend in the entire company. They just don't know how to market their stuff. I remember looking at the pathetic ads they had for Corel Draw on taxi cabs. The image given by the company is poor. With a better marketing team (one with any skill whatsoever) these guys could be big again, their internal morale would increase, and they could put some cool stuff out. The way things are now, they are toast. And giving up Linux is bad move #2 after selling Corel Computer, which was a gem.

Janimal

1. Caldera Systems, Inc.
2. Red Hat
3. Rebel.com

They include iRDA, speaker, mic, dual NIC, all the usual ports. The desktop takes up the same sort of size as a paperback book and the rackmount takes up half of a 1U chassis.

The next generation of NetWinders will be based on Transmeta's Crusoe instead of StrongARM. Shame, because a NetWinder based on a 1GHz Intel XScale (successor to StrongARM) would have been very nice.

I think that answers the question :-)

The standard low-power-consumption server is the StrongARM powered Netwinder. Originally developed by Corel and later sold to Rebel.com, the Netwinder is a very professional server. It comes with Linux and Apache installed and preconfigured and uses ~15 watts, less than most laptops.

P.S.

Netwinder is FAR from dead.

With that kind of grouping of Linux Power, there's an awful lot of Linux interest in this town - hence, a great deal of interest in running a Symposium (Thanks AH!)... if you want a symposium in your neighborhood, start one up! Can't guarantee that Alan Cox will make it (I got to sit next to him and Telsa during Miguel's keynote speech... I think I absorbed some kernel-kung-fu via osmosis)... but you never know what might come of your attempt. Maybe a few attendees will create the next great OpenSource project...

The StrongArm was mentioned.

This is particularly good, because many, many, applications for this chip have already been compiled for this chip by Rebel.Com for the NetWinder, including, of course, the Linux kernel.

The Netwinder is a very small and power unhungry device already, but I can imagine even smaller, more eficient devices.

Perhaps something that can run QNX? Or maybe Compaq could give more though to the ITSY?

Well, the future sure looks energy-efficient. Indeed.

Well, here's a UPS-on-a-card which would accomplish what you suggest.

Even better, a Netwinder runs straight from 12V, so you can just use a battery across its power supply for a UPS.

As for wiring a house with 12V, the problem is that a lower voltage implies a higher current, for the same amount of power. A 60W light bulb is only 0,5A at 120V but 5A at 12V. You either loose a lot of energy in your wiring, or have to use large-diameter, heavy and expensive wiring.

I highly doubt that Cobalt will move to 2.2 on the MIPS devices (Qube, Raq2).

Their latest and greatest Raq3 uses an AMD K6 and 2.2 is, of course, supported.

I have a Qube 2 under my desk at work, which I have abandoned due to the lack of 2.2.

If you need a small server like this and want Linux 2.2 on it, get a Netwinder. It's an ultra cool box, I recommend plugging in a monitor and keyboard. It's useable as a desktop machine. There's even a desktop version specifically for that which has NTSC I/O.

That circle thing on the side is a speaker, btw. A voice sounds "Welcome to Netwinder" when the system is properly up.

There are rackmount versions, too. You can fit two of them in a single 1u space.

Of course, the coolest thing is the hackability. Check out www.netwinder.org to find all kinds of great docs, software, and ideas. There's a pic there somewhere of a stack of netwinder guts set up as a Beowulf. The OS is a modified recent RedHat. You'll find it easier to get software compiled on it than the Qube.

Needless to say, one of these babies occupy a space on *top* of my desk.

REBEL.com's NetWinder (originally designed and formerly made by Corel's hardware division, which REBEL bought) runs an ARM port of Linux.

These are nice little boxen. They run off a 9v AC adapter, and supposedly will run off a 9v battery if necessary for a short period.

REBEL.com's NetWinder (originally designed and formerly made by Corel's hardware division, which REBEL bought) runs an ARM port of Linux.

These are nice little boxen. They run off a 9v AC adapter, and supposedly will run off a 9v battery if necessary for a short period.

[Moderators, prepare your offtopic flags]

I've been trying to figure out how to build a silent (read: convection cooled) Linux firewall/router to serve my cable modem connection to my other machines. I'd like to do it with a StrongARM part, but I can't seem to find a solution with a reasonable price (sub $500 total).

I've looked at the Chalice CATS, which could definitely do the job, but is more than $500 just for the board. LART looks pretty cool, but seems to have support for only one ethernet adapter at this time (and I have no idea how much it would actually cost). The NetWinder is also very cool, but it starts at around $1400 (and I've heard that they are not exactly silent). I've seen some info on machines from Acorn which might fit the bill, but I haven't been able to get their website to load.

Does anybody out there know of a low-cost StrongARM device which can run Linux and can support an IDE drive and two ethernet adapters?

Yes, I've looked at the fixed purpose firrewall boxes that do this, but I work for a large company with a constantly in-flux Intranet tunneling strategy, so I want enough control of my firewall to make sure I can keep up with the protocol du jour. I've also considered doing an insane i-opener hack (one USB ethernet adapter, one parallel port ethernet adapter), although I might as well just pick up a cheap box with a socket 7 motherboard and slap a Winchip in there myself to get the low power consumption. I'd have to take some other steps to quiet such a box, but it may be the best solution in my price range. Still, I think a StongARM solution would be much cooler.

HCC/CorelHardware changed its name to REBEL.com and still sells the Netwinder, but it is marketed as a server and is too expensive to compete in the sub-$400 pc market.

Regarding the merger not being adjusted, this is a response to the flack caused by an Inprise Board Director resigning in protest over the merger as he didn't thing the price was fair. Corel announced the merger would go through at the original price. See yesterday's post for more info. Of course, the board memeber is maybe a little less upset now, since this news has boosted Corel's stock price by 20% (and will likely at least double when an actual PC maker, a browser company and an ISP are identified).

FWIW, the new RAQs are x86 based. Check out the press release.

I guess they get more bang per buck, development is a bit easier, and their customers may well be more comfortable running "normal" hardware.

Cobalt's products are cool - I just wish they were a bit cheaper...

For something similar, have a look at this product from rebel.com - they have some interesting bits of hardware generally.

...j

Yep, this is part of the reason why Corel shares started to go up 'n up 'n up. The rumours said that Red Hat was going to put some of their shares towards buying Corel. Makes a lot of sense too, since Corel is profitable again, plus they have the Linux software that'll sell in business circles. Corel even has a hand in a Linux hardware company with Rebel.com and their Netwinders.

With this whole Linux frenzy, I bet Cowpland has other ideas. He's no dope, so watch for a half dozen Corel news releases in the next two weeks as Corel tries to push their stock even higher.

...Then use your shares to fund purchases of companies that actually make money. (At least that way when it returns to earth, the stock drop won't hit anyone too hard.)...

It's now owned by rebel.com, which is now one of the fastest-growing tech companies in the Ottawa area... which is actually saying quite a lot. It really hasn't been widely marketed yet though, I don't think they have the manufacturing capacity. It's pretty much going to be stagnant until the company issues an IPO, which is highly anticipated. The NetWinder LC, though, which was a desktop verion, hasn't been released, which is disappointing for me... they've all been servers.

Intel does not need IP cores, and I don't think Intel will ever enter the business of IP. IP is a completely different line of business than embedded processors. IMHO, had Intel wished to enter the IP business, they could have made low-power x86 IP cores available in a very short time, and wipe a sizable portion of the market-there are lots of companies surviving by only selling x86 compatible IP cores. So let's not use "IP core" as a synonym for embedded processors.

Intel has acquired one of the best embedded processor families when it got Digital's chip business: The StrongARM, which already powers some Internet appliances-(Rebel.com's NetWinder comes to mind. So they already have a very nice line of embedded processors for all sorts of applications. Timna is obviously not targeted at the general embedded applications market. It's rather an ultra-cheap processor for inexpensive PC's and x86 compatible network appliances. I believe it will be positioned against National Semiconductor's Geode, an Internet appliance on-a-chip, a great chip that's almost a complete PC. Intel has all the reasons to be scared of Geode, and VIA's own inexpensive integrated x86 processors, since Asian producers will start using them in large numbers when the Internet appliance business takes off. With a high quality, free operating system like Linux, and a cheap x86 processor combining CPU, multimedia and memory interface on a single chip, opportunities abound for companies which want to build Internet appliances.

And there are lots of processors in the embedded market which can TCP/IP quite well, along with a host of other capabilities required in today's applications. It's not like the embedded processor market is desperately waiting for Intel to come up with a line of powerful processors. The examples you give, Z80 and 8051, are not contenders in the Internet appliance market; although very advanced derivatives of these exist, which can be used for many purposes. EZ80, just out from Zilog, for example, is completely backwards compatible with Z80, and has its own TCP/IP stack.

Please make sure to check Geode out. You will be impressed.
--

BluetoothCentral.com
A site for everything Bluetooth. Coming in January 2000.

I think Rebel.com has done an excellent job with the Netwinder. It's a small computer using a SA1100 StrongARM processor. It's the same processor used in the Empeg car audio player and can do what you want and much more. It not only runs Linux, but it was designed specifically for Linux. I had a chance to talk with them at Linux World and I can tell you they're a small shop full of good people.

You may also look at the LART project being done in TuDelft, Netherlands. I don't think they're selling anything (yet?) but it's nice to see Linux on a small processor capable of some real power. I don't have a link handy, oops.

Or, you could use a uCsimm. It's a port of Linux to the Dragonball microcontroller with integrated Ethernet. It all fits on a 30 pin simm complete with Flash. I consider that to be really cool. There are many more choices out there than plain ol' Linux on x86. Don't limit yourself.

I think Rebel.com has done an excellent job with the Netwinder. It's a small computer using a SA1100 StrongARM processor. It's the same processor used in the Empeg car audio player and can do what you want and much more. It not only runs Linux, but it was designed specifically for Linux. I had a chance to talk with them at Linux World and I can tell you they're a small shop full of good people.

You may also look at the LART project being done in TuDelft, Netherlands. I don't think they're selling anything (yet?) but it's nice to see Linux on a small processor capable of some real power. I don't have a link handy, oops.

Or, you could use a uCsimm. It's a port of Linux to the Dragonball microcontroller with integrated Ethernet. It all fits on a 30 pin simm complete with Flash. I consider that to be really cool. There are many more choices out there than plain ol' Linux on x86. Don't limit yourself.

I like the Cobalt servers, and I might even buy one soon. Maybe there is a similar products out there to compare against?

A somewhat similar product is the StrongARM-based Netwinder, formerly of Corel Computer Corporation, now found here.
Nice hardware, but a pity about that new domain name and logo...

The difference between an ``embedded processor'' and a ``general purpose processor'' is as much marketing as anything else

At one point, the StrongARM was being strongly promoted as a Network Computer (aka ``X-Terminal'') device. Note the announcement of 1997 of the Digital Network Appliance Design.

And note that it is the processor used in the Rebel/Sidewinder that Corel Computers used to hawk.

The point of all of this is that the CPU is clearly not so ``embedded'' that it would be inherently useless in a ``desktop'' role.

It ought to have been possible to build motherboards integrating a CPU, video chipset, and Ethernet that could retail for less than $150, and this could have brought us $300 computers a year or so ago, and provided slick little boxes to velcro to the sides of 17" monitors.

If I could have bought a StrongARM motherboard for $100, I probably would have built a machine by now.

But no motherboard leads to no systems. Note that exactly the same reasoning may be used with MIPS...

Go to Rebel.com and get yourself a Netwinder. They are small, cost "something like standard x86 prices", and as far as I know, completely fanless. They use a low power StrongARM processor, and if I remember correctly, just use a standard 9V DC power adaptor as its power supply. The whole thing runs in 15 Watts.

----

Go to Rebel.com and get yourself a Netwinder. They are small, cost "something like standard x86 prices", and as far as I know, completely fanless. They use a low power StrongARM processor, and if I remember correctly, just use a standard 9V DC power adaptor as its power supply. The whole thing runs in 15 Watts.

----

If you read the C|NET article, you will find that the study refers to the "server appliance" market, not the "server market". This refers to out-of-the-box server "solutions" like the NetWinder.

The article also says that Dataquest predicts Linux-based systems will account for 8.1 percent of the "traditional server" market. I think that's underrating Linux by quite a bit.

The long-awaited NetWinder RM (the rackmount version of the NetWinder) is now shipping!

With the vector processing of the emotion, with the nuon processor doing the management, and the IEEE1394 iLink, stacking a few PSX2s will make for a helluva parallel system.

Even at $500/box, that sill slaughters most other methods I've heard of. I imagine Becker and NASA will be all over it.

This is absolutely right. I've been looking at those things as a possible replacement candidate for the several hundred x86/UltraSPARC/MIPS boxen we use in my employer's machine room. And the PSx2 looks like a very serious machine for heavy low precision floating point work. The next generation StrongARM chips also look very good for this kind of work.

The biggest problem I have in that machine room is the large power requirements x86 draws when multiplied in the hundreds. This is not just about a power bill, but it affects the size of our UPS, air conditioning, and rack requirements as well. Several hundred x86 are cheap compared to a few SGI Origin/Sun E10000 SMP boxen, but those machines are really designed for high I/O, not compute. Anyway, now that we've come to accept the price point distributed x86 systems offer over the supercomputer competition it's time to begin thinking how to drop that price point down even further. If PlayStations do the trick I'm all for it.

Thing is, Sony is going to have to support such a move. We need more than just a PSx2 Linux based SDK... we need an entire Linux distribution ported to the PSx2, plus driver support for all the nifty features like firewire et all included in the box. Sony hasn't mentioned anything like supporting a Linux distribution on this hardware, only that they're providing an SDK under Linux (probably running on x86 with a hardware cartridge dongle to the PSx2). So, Sony would have to open the hardware up before this could be a serious possibility.

If not the PSx2, maybe those crazy guys at www.rebel.com (the new name for Corel Computer) will recognize low power consumption and high integer/floating point compute systems as viable, and begin developing a hardware line specifically to target that market. I tell you, if they released a Netwinder with decent floating point performance, supported at least 512MB of RAM, and sucked roughly the same power the current Netwinders draw (about 15 Watts total) we'd buy hundreds of 'em.

Of course, the same holds for Sony if they opened up the PSx2 and began to target the performance compute market. I just want cheap compute that draws as little power as possible (thus dissipating little heat) and fits in a smaller form factor than a standard AT or ATX case. Is this really too much to ask?

the site says it's powered by netwinder .. not WHICH Netwinder. They appear to have a Netwinder 3000i which is Intel based .. could be Solaris X86 ..although that is breaking the O.S. type they claim is running on the 3000i (i.e. Linux)

I'd have preferred them to run on a StrongARM Netwinder with Linux myself ..

//jon