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"QT works on less platforms than GNUstep,"

Sadly, there is a strong contingent within the community that likes the old NeXT look and doesn't want anything else to be seen. But there is a theme engine and a couple of themes that look pretty good.

If they(you) want to get this product moving, they need pretty colours and components.

If you do not like the NeXT'ish look and feel that GNUstep defaults to, you're free to use themes.

the screenshots on that page are horrible. look at these for a batter idea:
the dock

like GTK, Everything looks better once it is themed

look at this

The new icons are really nice too
gorm
help
installer

the screenshots on that page are horrible. look at these for a batter idea:
the dock

like GTK, Everything looks better once it is themed

look at this

The new icons are really nice too
gorm
help
installer

I use GNOME, but my heart is in GNUstep. Now that camaelon is working, they just need some apps.

Right now my must-have apps are Evolution, Epiphany, Gaim, Gnumeric and Rhythmox. If GNUstep gets suitable equivalents, I'll be all over it.

I'd also be interested to know if GNUstep has any equivalent to HAL, gnome-volume-manager, gnome-vfs, etc.

EOF -- an object relational mapper, providing isolation from the database and from the database model -- in particular is very, very nice. Not the final answer to everything, but still quite cool :-)

The sad thing with Apple's current WebObjects is that it's only java (it's even a J2EE environment), while originally (at NeXT) it was Objective-C based (plus WebScript, an ObjC-like script language). They dropped the Objective-C bit with WebObjects 5, sadly (4.5 had ObjC and Java). Well, ok, beeing a J2EE env has its own advantages, but still...

The documentation of WO 4.5 is here, the documentation for the current WO is here.

There is a free software implementation of WebObjects 4.5 from the GNUstep project, GNUstepWeb, which work well. OpenGroupware.org also has its own WO 4.5 implementation, NGObjWeb, which works very well too (it's the foundation of SOPE). I wrote an article showing how to do simple (html) components, but it's in french ;-)

Though, if you want to discover a really interesting project, have a look to Seaside. It's inspired by WebObjects, with an excellent component model, but is even better (support of continuations, etc). And it's completely dynamic, letting you change things at runtime easily (Smalltalk rulez ;-). It's one of the best thing I know :-)

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

And the retro-NeXT "looks like Windows 95" because Microsoft licensed a widget set from NeXT when designing Windows 95.

Um, Mac OS X still has these, if you're talking about what I think you're talking about

Floating menus: MacOS puts the app menus across the top of the screen to "obey Fitt's law", most everyone else has them at the top of the application. GNUstep kindly has them as bizarre free floating objects. Once again, not one of NeXT's better ideas. Can't we move on from slavishly copying NeXT?

It's only bad if you use them as floating menus. Back in the old days, NeXT users had them hidden by default and just popped them up with the mouse. This is actually *easier* than the Mac menubar approach. Granted, that's not obvious at first, but that's the best way to do it. The menu is always where your mouse pointer is--no need to move *at all*.

It should be noted, however, that all look and feel can be changed rather easily. Due to the dynamic nature of Objective-C and OpenStep--and the -gui/-back split in GNUstep--completely changing the look and feel just requires creating a bundle to do it. Somebody seems to be working on a theme engine already.

I almost want to sob into my keyboard.

:-)

Sorry...

They are as ugly as the hind end of a dog with a hat on it. The first few minimal ones just make the clean GNUstep app look amateurish and childish with misaligned text in the buttons and garish coloured arrows to indicate the default button; the ones that attempt to imitate Aqua are actively ugly.

Well, none of them are intended to be full-featured themes. Mostly, they are just snapshot of different tests and modifications. If you want a theme engine, you *need* to test things ;-) -- but I surely won't advocate taking one of the ugly themes here as a good UI example. I quite like the general idea of this one for example, but it's obvious it needs works. On the other hand, when you say that the OSX themes looks bad, take a look at that one -- that's really close to OSX (well, minus wmaker titlebar, of course). Anyway, there are things to correct, and they don't look perfect (like for example, the misaligned text). But mostly it was to test different features and modifications... so yes, it was because I could :-)

Don't forget it's just a theme engine -- GNUstep will still have the NeXT look by default. And you know what ? personally I tend to prefer the NeXT UI (that's partly why I didn't work as much as I should have done on Camaelon). But as you can read it on slashdot, people won't use GNUstep without a "modern" look (it's perhaps sad, but that's the reality). On a pragmatic way, having a theme engine will, regardless of slashdot users, be useful for cross platform (on Windows, etc).

I almost want to sob into my keyboard.

:-)

Sorry...

They are as ugly as the hind end of a dog with a hat on it. The first few minimal ones just make the clean GNUstep app look amateurish and childish with misaligned text in the buttons and garish coloured arrows to indicate the default button; the ones that attempt to imitate Aqua are actively ugly.

Well, none of them are intended to be full-featured themes. Mostly, they are just snapshot of different tests and modifications. If you want a theme engine, you *need* to test things ;-) -- but I surely won't advocate taking one of the ugly themes here as a good UI example. I quite like the general idea of this one for example, but it's obvious it needs works. On the other hand, when you say that the OSX themes looks bad, take a look at that one -- that's really close to OSX (well, minus wmaker titlebar, of course). Anyway, there are things to correct, and they don't look perfect (like for example, the misaligned text). But mostly it was to test different features and modifications... so yes, it was because I could :-)

Don't forget it's just a theme engine -- GNUstep will still have the NeXT look by default. And you know what ? personally I tend to prefer the NeXT UI (that's partly why I didn't work as much as I should have done on Camaelon). But as you can read it on slashdot, people won't use GNUstep without a "modern" look (it's perhaps sad, but that's the reality). On a pragmatic way, having a theme engine will, regardless of slashdot users, be useful for cross platform (on Windows, etc).

First, if you think GNUstep widgets look like ass then you haven't seen enough ass. Second, the Camaelon project provides the ability to make the widgets look nicer. Take a look at the pictures.

Camaelon.

AFAIK, you have to patch the GNUStep source, which makes it an impractical pain in the ass for a lot of people, but it's there anyway.

There's no support for traditional pixmap swapping like in so many other environments, but there might be one fine day.

The fonts are user-configurable, BTW.

How about this:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 4.png

or that:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 3.png
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 2.png
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 1.png
and so on

How about this:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 4.png

or that:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 3.png
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 2.png
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 1.png
and so on

How about this:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 4.png

or that:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 3.png
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 2.png
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 1.png
and so on

How about this:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 4.png

or that:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 3.png
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 2.png
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme4 1.png
and so on

The thing is, the NeXT machine used to have gamma corrected display. And so, in real use, it wasn't as dark as it can appear on screenshots. Alas, GNUstep gui, by default, use the same colors value -- and so, if your display is not correctly calibrated, it will appear too gray, too dark.

You can change the colors with the Preferences.app though, if you're not fond of the default gray !

The other possibility is to wait for Camaelon 2, a pixmap theme engine I'm working on. It works at the moment, and if you really want it now you can drop me a mail, but I'd like to clean up the code and add a few things. I intend to release it before the Fosdem (so, before the end of this month). Some screenshots like this one or that one show what can be done.

The thing is, the NeXT machine used to have gamma corrected display. And so, in real use, it wasn't as dark as it can appear on screenshots. Alas, GNUstep gui, by default, use the same colors value -- and so, if your display is not correctly calibrated, it will appear too gray, too dark.

You can change the colors with the Preferences.app though, if you're not fond of the default gray !

The other possibility is to wait for Camaelon 2, a pixmap theme engine I'm working on. It works at the moment, and if you really want it now you can drop me a mail, but I'd like to clean up the code and add a few things. I intend to release it before the Fosdem (so, before the end of this month). Some screenshots like this one or that one show what can be done.

funny, I think it's the opposite. the osx one looks like a light grey blur. but I suppose it has to do with opinion.
so why not check out this page for gnustep "skins":
http://www.roard.com/camaelon/

The appearance is only skin deep. Creating a theme that looks "good"? That's easy, get some graphic designers together with a usability safety inspector.

Writing a complete framework with rich, well thought-out object libraries? Now that is a feat. GNUStep is a lurker project that is getting close to hitting critical mass. They've got the hard stuff done that others are still swinging at but not quite hitting.

No, the GNUStep people have been much more concerned with laying sewer lines, roadways, electrical grids, water, gas, etc. When they get around to picking the color for their street signs, it'll be good.

Some work is already going into theming.

Now that GNUStep is getting really close to being complete, I hope they look at Cairo as a base for doing something similar to Quartz.

-Peter

Something like this ? or that ?

Something like this ? or that ?

:-)

Before Windows 95 was released, MS paid NeXT for the rights to use the look.

Many people, including yours truly, still find the NeXT look to be very pleasant. But there is a theme engine. Look at some of the files named screenshot_theme##.png. Additionally, there's a Mac Menu bundle. It all still needs work, but it's coming along.

:-)

Before Windows 95 was released, MS paid NeXT for the rights to use the look.

Many people, including yours truly, still find the NeXT look to be very pleasant. But there is a theme engine. Look at some of the files named screenshot_theme##.png. Additionally, there's a Mac Menu bundle. It all still needs work, but it's coming along.

``If OpenStep is simply a framework, then why do all of its apps have the same look and feel?''

Because GUI classes are part of the framework. This is very obvious if you RTFW.

``Is work ongoing to make it less... ugly?''

There has been some progress on making it themeable (Camaeleon). I have been disappointed with the achievements, though.

Thanks to some dedicated people, GNUstep and a bunch of apps are an apt-get away on debian.

'apt-get install gnustep*' will install all the libraries, the development tools, stepbill.app, and some others. You'll want gworkspace, too. WindowMaker is nice to have, as well as this windowmaker theme and Camaelon.

er, there is a gui bundle for gnustep that actually change that -- it moves the menu on the top, like on MacOS. So you can choose to not use the vertical menus, if you want(personally, I'm a big fan of vertical menus, but on a big screen - on a small screen, I tend to prefer horizontal menus :-)

Actually, you probably want to correct your screen's gamma -- with a proper gamma, the default color scheme of GNUstep looks much better.
It's also not very difficult to change the color scheme using Preferences.app, as you can see on this screenshot.
Plus, the look can be modified with themes

• the main GNUstep website
• the GNUstep wiki
• a presentation brochure
• a booklet about GNUstep
• an article introducing GNUstep

Stallman did quite a bit of work on the Objective C compiler. As is mentioned in this article on GNUStep.

I agree. The problems folks think they have with X are problems with software they're running on top of X, and often with lack of decent drivers. A new system isn't going to have things easier getting drivers, that's for certain.

It would be nice if there was an X replacement that had QT and/or GTK+ tied in more closely

That statement, however, I cannot agree with at all. One of the great advantages of X is toolkit-agnosticism. This allows innovation, evolution, progress that other platforms with builtin toolkits can't manage. It's a key factor explaining why X is still widely used today while other GUI systems cannot manage a fraction of its longevity.

or if we had a quartz-extreme-like OpenGL windowing system and font renderer with postscript-esque qualities (i.e. run my desktop at high resolution, but zoom everything appropriately for 'real-world' DPI).

Two words: support GnuStep.