Slashdot Mirror

Look, privatized fire departments don't work.

That will be news to these people.

They don't make economic sense.

Oh, really?

From a quick glance at their ten-year chart and their market valuation, I'd have to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

-jcr

When I owned a house near Knoxville, TN, I had to pay for subscription fire service from "Rural Metro." It was affordable and gave me enough protection that my home owner's insurance rates were reasonable. I'm fairly certain that Rural Metro was a "for profit" fire department. Yep - here they are http://www.ruralmetro.com/. Paying those fees and a few others were preferable to our subdivision being annexed by Knoxville so that we would receive the "free" services in return for paying Knoxville city taxes.

I'm not so keen on the versions of the public "option" that I've heard offered so far. But maybe if they analyze the real problems with the health care system, and present a prioritized list of issues along with non-bullshit documentation making the case, we might be able to start a debate. And then I would be willing to listen.

Scottsdale, Arizona is a good example. They used Rural/Metro as their private carrier until 2004. linky. Here's Rural/Metro's history and locations. From the history link:

Rural/Metro's history goes back more than 50 years, when founder Lou Witzeman became concerned that his neighborhood didn't have fire protection. So he pooled together some money, bought a fire truck, and asked his neighbors to subscribe to his fledgling company.

With the company was also born a new way of thinking about health and safety services. As a private sector company, Rural/Metro is dedicated to finding the most cost-effective ways to deliver the highest quality ambulance transportation and fire protection services.

Where fire protection is private, the cost tends to be covered by subscription as part of the homeowner's fire insurance policy required by the lender.

And in this case do I have a choice of fire protection companies? Can I choose to have the guys from engine 39 be my fire department instead of those cocksuckers at District 12?

Even after the formation of paid fire companies in the United States, there were disagreements and often fights over territory. New York City companies were famous for sending runners out to fires with a large barrel to cover the hydrant closest to the fire in advance of the engines. Often fights would break out between the runners and even the responding fire companies for the right to fight the fire and, therefore, the insurance money that would be paid to the company that fought it.

So let me see if I have this straight: You're against small, municipally controlled WiFi networks but you're in favor of large, government subsidized and authorized Telcos developing these networks?

No, I'm just as opposed to government granting monopoly authorization to telcos on the local loop. The only reason you don't see the same people complaining about this is that it's a fait accompli. It's better to fight the current battle on the current front than endlessly bemoan battles lost years ago. I'm not even saying that I want all fire departments to be private. I'm just objecting to your implied claim that fire protection inherently couldn't be provided without tax dollars when it currently /is/ so provided in many places.

Scottsdale, Arizona is a good example. They used Rural/Metro as their private carrier until 2004. linky. Here's Rural/Metro's history and locations. From the history link:

Rural/Metro's history goes back more than 50 years, when founder Lou Witzeman became concerned that his neighborhood didn't have fire protection. So he pooled together some money, bought a fire truck, and asked his neighbors to subscribe to his fledgling company.

With the company was also born a new way of thinking about health and safety services. As a private sector company, Rural/Metro is dedicated to finding the most cost-effective ways to deliver the highest quality ambulance transportation and fire protection services.

Where fire protection is private, the cost tends to be covered by subscription as part of the homeowner's fire insurance policy required by the lender.

And in this case do I have a choice of fire protection companies? Can I choose to have the guys from engine 39 be my fire department instead of those cocksuckers at District 12?

Even after the formation of paid fire companies in the United States, there were disagreements and often fights over territory. New York City companies were famous for sending runners out to fires with a large barrel to cover the hydrant closest to the fire in advance of the engines. Often fights would break out between the runners and even the responding fire companies for the right to fight the fire and, therefore, the insurance money that would be paid to the company that fought it.

So let me see if I have this straight: You're against small, municipally controlled WiFi networks but you're in favor of large, government subsidized and authorized Telcos developing these networks?

No, I'm just as opposed to government granting monopoly authorization to telcos on the local loop. The only reason you don't see the same people complaining about this is that it's a fait accompli. It's better to fight the current battle on the current front than endlessly bemoan battles lost years ago. I'm not even saying that I want all fire departments to be private. I'm just objecting to your implied claim that fire protection inherently couldn't be provided without tax dollars when it currently /is/ so provided in many places.

Also, I doubt there is any business model that can support a fire department.

Um, actually, there are commercial fire companies, they contract out to municipalities who for various reasons don't want to run their own.

==>Lazn

==>Lazn

Privately run for-profit fire protection companies are generally able to provide better service at a lower cost than are public firms. Most rural areas still have volunteer fire departments rather than a city-paid force, and in many areas businesses and individuals have the option of subscribing to one or more competitive firms.

In short, there's no reason to think fire services couldn't be provided without a federal income tax. Just ask the Rural/Metro company of Arizona whether they provide fire protection!

Rural/Metro currently provides fire protection services to more than 25 communities, and responds to more than 60,000 calls annually. Studies have shown that Rural/Metro's fire protection provides residents with a higher degree of safety than is available in most communities, while featuring comparatively lower costs.

And Rural/Metro's emphasis on fire prevention has resulted in an incidence of structure fires that is more than 300% lower than the national average.

Privately run for-profit fire protection companies are generally able to provide better service at a lower cost than are public firms. Most rural areas still have volunteer fire departments rather than a city-paid force, and in many areas businesses and individuals have the option of subscribing to one or more competitive firms.

In short, there's no reason to think fire services couldn't be provided without a federal income tax. Just ask the Rural/Metro company of Arizona whether they provide fire protection!

Rural/Metro currently provides fire protection services to more than 25 communities, and responds to more than 60,000 calls annually. Studies have shown that Rural/Metro's fire protection provides residents with a higher degree of safety than is available in most communities, while featuring comparatively lower costs.

And Rural/Metro's emphasis on fire prevention has resulted in an incidence of structure fires that is more than 300% lower than the national average.