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"Houses are cheaper in that mortgage interest rates are a tenth of what they used to be."

Um. What? Current mortgage rates are in the 4-5% range... They have never been in the 40-50% range. There was a period in the 80s where the rates were above 10%... but historical averages are around 8%. But in spite of (or perhaps because of) low interest rates, home prices are going up. Drastically. In the 30s the average new house cost 2x the average salary, that started changing in the 70s, and now the average new home costs 6x the average salary.

"Cars are way cheaper"

This is not true... if anything the average price of a new car is now larger, relative to the average income, than it has ever been historically. http://www.thepeoplehistory.co...

You are also leaving out things like the cost of a college education, relative to what a middle class family can afford, which has changed drastically in the last few decades... and your conclusion that most people don't want more stuff? Silly. People want bigger/better cars, houses, to live in "nicer" neighborhoods, or in higher demand locations, to go on even nicer vacations, etc. We want bigger TVs, faster computers, high end smartphones, more eating out at nicer restaurants.

Regulation causes more cost, more cost is offset to the customer... ergo, regulation causes prices to raise... If that's extrapolation from a false premise, we can trash all of economics.

The average house price in the 1970's was $132k (inflation adjusted). You can buy the same house now for the same price (using my parents house as an example since I know the numbers exactly). Newer houses are more, but you get a lot more house. Eggs were $3.69/dozen (pulling random numbers http://www.thepeoplehistory.co...), I bought a dozen yesterday for $2.59. Median wage in 1970 was $38,716 (https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html). Median wage in 2016 was $44,148 (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf).

Agreed, the cost of food, shelter, clothing, and transportation is going up like crazy, while electronics go down.

* Summer of 2007, I bought a 50 inch TV (1366x768 resolution) for $3500 Canadian. Today, 48-to-50 inch TVs (1920x1080 resolution) can be had for $350. That's a 90% drop in price.

* Stuff you really need, like food, shelter, clothing, and transportation has been constatnly increasing. I remember my first car, a new 1974 Ford Maverick 4-door. It cost $4,070 including taxes. Nowadays a compact 4-seater is at least $20,000

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/s...

TTC Fare Structure, July 1, 1954:
> Adult day fares: 15cents cash; 5 tickets for 50cents 20 tickets for $2.
> Children: 5cents cash; 6 tickets for 25cents
> Scholars: 10 tickets for 55cents

http://ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes...

As of January, the fare structure will be
> Adult (cash) $3.5
> Adult (token or Presto-card) $3.00
> "S" fare (Senior or Student) (cash) $2.10
> "S" fare (Senior or Student) (ticket or Presto-card) $2.05

Food, clothing, and housing (own or rent) have also skyrocketed. See http://www.thepeoplehistory.co... for some scarey numbers. To summarize... the current "2%" number is an an outright lie. The real number is a lot worse for people in the working class.

The current average retail price of a new car is now $33,560 or about 64% of U.S. Household income. In 1980, it was $7,200 or 44% of 1980 median household income. The further back you go, the more affordable cars were. Compound that with the fact that most households used to be single income, and now most households are dual income means that the real rate of increase of car prices is even more out of control than it looks.

And back in the good old days, we bought them more often. Last vehicle I bought was to replace a ten year old one. When I started driving, in ten years, you were on your third vehicle.

Due to all of the tech in cars now, they are too fucking expensive. That's why most people lease cars -- because they cannot hope to actually pay for one outright any more. This is only going to exacerbate that problem. Until auto-makers can make cars that will last generations of drivers can they expect us to pay for them over generations.

The current average retail price of a new car is now $33,560 or about 64% of U.S. Household income. In 1980, it was $7,200 or 44% of 1980 median household income. The further back you go, the more affordable cars were. Compound that with the fact that most households used to be single income, and now most households are dual income means that the real rate of increase of car prices is even more out of control than it looks.

My 10.9 is absolutely accurate. Source: http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm/

If our economy grew by a factor of 6 only with a population growth of 3x, then we'd be only about twice as rich as our great grand fathers. You cannot possibly believe that without being horribly ignorant of history. House sizes are mammoth compared to that generation. We have electricity in every home. Even the poorest in this country have access to food, running water, electricity, a public school system and library system. And please tell me what the i7 equipped PC in your sig would cost in 1920. Cars were relatively the same cost in terms of median salary, but you gor something that looked like this http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/20scars/1924-chevy-utility-coupe.jpg

The fact is we are more wealthy than those from 90 years ago and dramatically so. To not see this requires an absolute ignorance of history.

The same with passenger cars, they aren't any faster then they were 30 years ago but they are cheaper to buy, run on less fuel and kill a hell of a lot less people each year.

Others have already responded to your other points, but this one is wrong. Yes, cars are more efficient and safer now, but they're no less expensive, even after factoring in inflation (which, handily enough, usually uses auto prices as one of its benchmarks). According to one quick Google search, I found one guy who says he bought a brand-new Corvette in 1980 for $14,600. A typical Corvette these days is 3.4 times as expensive, at about $50k. According to this inflation calculator, his $14.6k is only worth about $38.6k now, quite a bit short of $50k. According to http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1980s.html, the average car in 1980 was only $7210, which is about $19k now. For another more specific example from 1980 from http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/80scars.html, the Pontiac Sunbird was $5164 in 1980, which is $13665 now, and a GMC pickup was $5400 in 1982, which is only $12.2k now. Good luck trying to buy a full-size pickup for anywhere near $12k now!! In 1979, a Datsun 210 only cost $3869, which is equivalent to only $11.6k now.

Of course, there's a Fiat now for $15.5k, and a couple Kias in the $13k range, so you can still get some economy models that compare well with the 70s-80s prices after adjusting for inflation, but cheaper? Definitely not.

The fact I can get a return flight from Perth to Kuala Lumpur for Three fucking Hundred and Fifty Australian Dollars ONLY is your god damn advancement.

In the 60s, the airline seats were also twice as large as they are now, with a lot more legroom. Obviously, when you pack twice the number of people into the same plane, add some incremental fuel-economy savings, and add in some extra efficiencies of scale (more planes, bigger planes on average, more traffic, etc.), and oh yeah, cut out the free meals and charge an extra fee for checked luggage and soon to use the toilet, then flying's going to be a lot cheaper. That's not a major advancement, it's a change in expectations, and efficiencies of scale, while good for economics, are not evidence of improvements in technology. Where's the technological improvements? There really aren't any. Just some minor improvements in fuel efficiency and aerodynamics, like the winglets (which honestly, I don't know why they didn't do earlier; the other poster already noted they were around in the 30s and have nothing to do with avionics; these aren't B-2 "flying wing" bombers we're talking about here that are fundamentally unstable and require constant computer correction).

The same with passenger cars, they aren't any faster then they were 30 years ago but they are cheaper to buy, run on less fuel and kill a hell of a lot less people each year.

Others have already responded to your other points, but this one is wrong. Yes, cars are more efficient and safer now, but they're no less expensive, even after factoring in inflation (which, handily enough, usually uses auto prices as one of its benchmarks). According to one quick Google search, I found one guy who says he bought a brand-new Corvette in 1980 for $14,600. A typical Corvette these days is 3.4 times as expensive, at about $50k. According to this inflation calculator, his $14.6k is only worth about $38.6k now, quite a bit short of $50k. According to http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1980s.html, the average car in 1980 was only $7210, which is about $19k now. For another more specific example from 1980 from http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/80scars.html, the Pontiac Sunbird was $5164 in 1980, which is $13665 now, and a GMC pickup was $5400 in 1982, which is only $12.2k now. Good luck trying to buy a full-size pickup for anywhere near $12k now!! In 1979, a Datsun 210 only cost $3869, which is equivalent to only $11.6k now.

Of course, there's a Fiat now for $15.5k, and a couple Kias in the $13k range, so you can still get some economy models that compare well with the 70s-80s prices after adjusting for inflation, but cheaper? Definitely not.

The fact I can get a return flight from Perth to Kuala Lumpur for Three fucking Hundred and Fifty Australian Dollars ONLY is your god damn advancement.

In the 60s, the airline seats were also twice as large as they are now, with a lot more legroom. Obviously, when you pack twice the number of people into the same plane, add some incremental fuel-economy savings, and add in some extra efficiencies of scale (more planes, bigger planes on average, more traffic, etc.), and oh yeah, cut out the free meals and charge an extra fee for checked luggage and soon to use the toilet, then flying's going to be a lot cheaper. That's not a major advancement, it's a change in expectations, and efficiencies of scale, while good for economics, are not evidence of improvements in technology. Where's the technological improvements? There really aren't any. Just some minor improvements in fuel efficiency and aerodynamics, like the winglets (which honestly, I don't know why they didn't do earlier; the other poster already noted they were around in the 30s and have nothing to do with avionics; these aren't B-2 "flying wing" bombers we're talking about here that are fundamentally unstable and require constant computer correction).

Except the numbers the government puts out are pure bullshit.

Not what I'm saying...

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70yearsofpricechange.html
Dropping the great depression...

wages
1940 $1,725.00, 1950 $3,210.00 , 1960 $5,315.00 ,1970 $9,400.00 , 1980 $19,500.00 , 1990 $28,960.00 , 2008 $40,523
Note the big discontinuity start at 1990. I see a smaller increase in 1960 looking at this fresh. at my company this year,
no raises, no bonuses, but there are numerous "promotions" in the executive ranks-- no change in duties. It's just a slimy way of giving themselves raises.

house
1940 $3,920.00, 1950 $8,450.00 , 1960 $12,700.00 , 1970 $23,450.00 , 1980 $68,700.00 , 1990 $123,000.00 , 2008 $238,880
More than doubled in 1980, so we were less able to afford houses. It went from 2 years salary to 3 years salary- to 4 years in 1990 to 6 years in 2008.

car
1940 $850.00, 1950 $1,510.00 , 1960 $2,600.00 , 1970 $3,450.00 , 1980 $7,200.00 , 1990 $16,950.00 , 2008 $27,958 ,
Cars stopped doubling in 1990-- people probably couldn't afford a 32000 car or perhaps the spike in 1990 was an aberation since 7200->14400->28800.

meat
1930 12 cents , 1940 20 cents , 1950 30 cents , 1960 45 cents ,1970 70 cents , 1980 99 cents , 1990 89 cents , 2009 $3.99 ,
Meat has gone up a lot since 1990- but that may be a reaction to the dip in 1990's (so ranchers had less incentive to raise new cattle)

Meanwhile the GINI coefficient has climbed from from 39.6 to 46.6 (dropping from 47 in 2006) putting the United States very high in the list of countries with unequal income distribution.

>So that's why just about every American house had a vacuum tube radio or three before they were obsoleted by transistors? Vacuum tubes were not expensive.

Keyword: *a* vacuum tube radio. One. Just one.

I would hedge my bets that my house presently has a dozen radios in it.

In 1930, a cheap radio would cost $9.95. Calculating for inflation, that radio would cost $122 today.

In contrast, eBay sells 10 radios for $0.99.

Yes, tubes were expensive back then. That radio only had 5 tubes in it. Considering for the price of the case, I'd say that's about $10 a tube. Which is what they are now, give or take.