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EU Prepares 'Right To Repair' Legislation To Fight Short Product Lifespans (bleepingcomputer.com)
An anonymous reader writes: The EU is preparing legislation that would legalize a customer's "right to repair," and would force vendors to design products for longer life and easier maintenance, in an effort to combat electronic waste and abusive practices like manufacturers legally preventing users from repairing their devices. The legislation is in its earlier stages of public discussion, but it already has the backing of several EU Members of Parliament, along with support from organizations like Greenpeace.
Currently, in the US only eleven states have similar laws, and they have been adopted after years of public discussions, and only for certain markets, and not for all types of products. It is unclear what leverage the EU will use to force manufacturers to produce longer lasting products, as this would mean lesser profits for big businesses, who often used tactics such as software DRMs, warranty contract lock-ins, and soldering components together, just to avoid users repairing products on their own.
Currently, in the US only eleven states have similar laws, and they have been adopted after years of public discussions, and only for certain markets, and not for all types of products. It is unclear what leverage the EU will use to force manufacturers to produce longer lasting products, as this would mean lesser profits for big businesses, who often used tactics such as software DRMs, warranty contract lock-ins, and soldering components together, just to avoid users repairing products on their own.
While I applaud such measures [as a techno-nerd one of the most infuriating aspects of the economy for me is the enforced obsolescence] I cannot help but wonder - since the whole planet agrees on the basic principles of free market capitalism, which inevitably result in forced obsolescence and a race to the bottom ["best product for the most affordable price' is the same as "worst product for the highest possible price"] why do we then spend absolutely enormous amount of time, money and effort to STOP the system going to where it goes naturally based on its premises.
What an absurd idea - make the worst and most destructive qualities of humans the most rewarded in the system [greed!], thus creating evolutionary pressure for all of us to become more and more sociopathic [i.e. successful] and then start pushing against the inevitable outcome.
Why don't we change the system so that it encourages and promotes human survival, procreation and happiness rather than greed and criminal wasting of resources. Ah, I know - the economists told me that the present system reflects exactly human nature [which is flawed, so we can't do jack shit about that - what a fucking LIE this is!] so this is the best of all possible worlds - where the ancestors of those economist set the system 200 years ago to benefit the "haves" and now we call that "natural system"; we claim that it is as immutable as the laws of Nature rather than a scam set up by humans to keep and increase their power.
'Summary: Humanity collectively opened the shitter above our heads and then stood in the shit rain wondering why it is shit and not honey.....unbelievable!
The main impediment to repair of electronics is simply lack of information - that schematics and board overlays are simply unavailable. Without them, a repair person is flying blind. With them, they can determine the fault by measuring voltage rails around the board, and the repair is often replacing jelly bean parts that are worth pennies - or just bypassing broken board connections. The other thing we lack is source code. manufacturers abandon products as soon as they are sold, and withhold source code (as well as locking the device up with code signing) so users cannot fix their bugs. 'Right to repair' legislation should address these problems first.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
Like many people I have been plagued with some devices going belly up suspiciously close after the warranty period expiry
So I am all for a right to repair, but a design for easier maintenance may be difficult to enforce because it can go against other aims of the product.
For example, lots of functionality could be in a set of custom surface mounted chips. There is nothing wrong with smds and they can make designs more compact (usually desirable), but they sure are difficult to troubleshoot and replace if you're a 3rd party. Similarly some products are desirable for the public precisely because they are super slender (macbook air and their clones, various smartphones, tablets...). Easy repair goes against the desire of slimness. I read that recent Surface tablets are literally glued shut, which is obviously bad and should be forbidden going forward, but otherwise how far should this legislation go?
along with support from organizations like Greenpeace.
If Greenpeace supports it, then I better take a closer look first.
Too often, they did things purely for PR purpose and would do more harm than good.
Would an out of support iPhone still be usable? Yes, but... at the first reported vulnerability, you'd would need to stop using it as a smartphone. As a normal phone, it could last for multiple more years. Case in point, I gave an old iPhone 4 to an aunt of my wife. Her subscription has no Internet. She uses it as a phone. It will cause no problems.
The Android world has a support problem. Patches are only dependable with well know brands (Samsung) and you never know how long you'll get them (6 months? 2 years? Your guess is as good as mine!). Android handset developers have no incentive to update the software of their phones, because they want you to buy new handsets. This is where such a law would works, BUT, it would make those handset much more expensive: the software development costs would skyrocket, and as such the handset makers will have to charge more. You'll basically, get a world where Android handsets lose their "cost less" status.
In summary: a law like this will ensure that your devices will double or triple in price. Basically making certain devices so high on the luxury ladder, that normal people won't be able to afford them... making the divide between poor and rich bigger. (Similar to the roaming regulation, where basically many people lost roaming because their plans became national-only... Or if you don't want that: pay more... often for less data/calls... In my eyes, it's the poor "less roaming" people subsiding the rich "travelling a lot and thus roaming" people... A scandal... It is, however, hailed as one of the major achievements of the EU.)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
I remember the old dsys when i used to get spring for mechanical clocks and tape recorder to repair. Now a days even household mop comes in one piece. They dont sell mop and handle separate.
Oh please, melodrama much?
For once the EU actually does something to the benefit of the average Joe, but rest assured you find some dimwit to complain about it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You are fogetting the millions of OOTB Androids that get zero (or almost zero) patches or security updates.
They are so cheap that it is almost impossible to get people to repair them or at the other end of the market, devices like the Galaxy S8 has such a weak screen that it breaks easily and costs an arm and a leg to get fixed.
Send all the unrepairable junk to the UK. They will be desperate for any trade deal.
The EU already has mandatory warranties, when a product is sold to a private consumer.
The minimum is two years, but there is a catch:
After six months, the burden of proof shifts from the seller to the buyer. In many cases, that means YOU have now to prove that you did not mishandle the product. Make that easier for the consumer, and perhaps extend the two years too. A lot of companies will now have to up their standard of quality.
C - the footgun of programming languages
I agree. Simply force companies to repair the products they sell in a timely manner, for free (including free shipping) for a reasonable amount of time and the products will *magically* become a) more reliable in the first place and b) easier to repair. I suggest 20 years as a starting point for most items, so that the current generation of incredibly low-quality and unreliable disposable washers/dryers/air conditioners/toasters/microwaves/furnaces/hot water heaters/etc. is the last generation of this complete crap.
Oh please, melodrama much?
For once the EU actually does something to the benefit of the average Joe, but rest assured you find some dimwit to complain about it.
To be fair you would kind of expect "Vinegar Joe" to complain when Average Joe is the one who gets the benefit.
When I worked at a major electronic company in Belgium, the warranty period went from 1 to 2 years. We also sold extended warranties and that made a nice sum. When we went from 1 to 2 years, that would mean the following:
1) More repairs done during the warranty period
2) Less sales in warranties as people will think 2 years might be enough.
So I asked the CEO if this was a burden and he said no. The reason as that we knew exactly how much it would cost and the price was adapted accordingly (I believe an increase of 1% or less).
So what will happen is that the prices will slightly go up, so the companies will need to make up in loss for a tiny bit. Not even enough to really notice. If this means I get a better product that can be used for longer, I have no problem that the government "forces" me to pay a bit more.
It is a bit like paying extra for a red triangle in your car. It is a small extra cost required by law to have, but in the end it is better, even if I (hopefully) never need to use it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I'd settle for 5 years in the first step, but extend it to software, including embedded software. The scope of the software warranty could be similar to what Microsoft does during extended support:
Fixes for vulnerabilities, but no new features.
I think that would already send many vendors into a panic ;)
C - the footgun of programming languages
As someone who works in implementing lean practices, this is a terrible approach. There is a cost to making something user repairable. Extra connectors, new interfaces, room for accessing subassemblies (which increases overall size), added thickness to support thread engagement of screws. If there isn't a mandatory recycling program (i.e. manufacturer has to buy back failed or obsolete or unwanted product), then we're just going to create more waste.
Even with a strong recycling program, this is not a win unless a large number of customers *actually* repair their devices instead of buying the new shiny version. How do we know that this isn't creating a cost for all customers and wasted energy (more material) to appease a vocal minority of customers many of whom won't actually repair their devices?
The EU needs to figure out a way to improve this iteratively by making smaller, incremental changes and seeing if customers respond. For example, find the most common reasons phones get tossed out and address those - battery, screen, and phone body are obvious candidates for replacement. This gets say 80% of the issues addressed for minimal cost. Then move on to bigger problems.
I get the right to repair movement. But frankly, repairing technology has been fading for some time. Remember the TV repair man? Used to come to your house, replace a couple tubes and charged like $25. As iFixit has reported many devices simply are not feasible to fix and are basically throw away. Let's also realize nobody fixes stuff they replace screens, motherboards, and other parts. Its like taking your car for a tune up and they replace the engine. Sorry EU while I agree stuff should be more fixable passing a law won't make it so.
For once? The EU does more than any other democratic government to further consumer's interests against corporate ones.
Old fashioned countries like the UK greatly benefit from the influence of the more modern, progressive ones in the EU. That's why we want out of it - our country is shitty and that's the way we like it, thank you very much.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Require appliance companies to label their products in an easily scannable way. Any time one of their products hits a waste transfer station, the appliance company has to pay the waste transfer station a nontrivial disposal fee that is a percentage of their list price. Start with a very high percentage if a product is disposed of in the first year after manufacture and reduce it over time.
Give them a financial incentive to make their products last longer.
to make it easily repairable doesn't that mean the device becomes less secure?
Right now many phones are purely disposable because a cost of a develop world tech to repair the phone would be a huge percentage % of buying it again new.
Maybe the compromise is to force the manufactures to allow the user to replace the battery.
I know that it would cause some hives in the mobile phone sector. We'd certainly see some low budget players vanish.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Will this mean, we get replaceable batteries back on phones.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. Forcing is good.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Should have been implemented decades ago.
Maybe huge tech and electronic companies would only realize that the planet has a very limited and finite resource once there are no more metals and rare metals which can be harvested for e-gadget production. Unless if humans can colonize far away planets for additional resources, but nobody knows which would come first, whether depletion of Earths resources or colonization of other planets. Better play safe and guard our planets resource, so I hope this "Right to Repair" gets implemented ASAP.
Speaking of product lifetimes... I'd like to see at least some transparency, and maybe some consumer control, in rechargeable battery management. As I understand it, rapid charging, charging to nearly full capacity, and discharging to near empty, all shorten the life of a lithium-ion battery. I would like to know whether a product is designed for 100 cycles, or 1000, or what. I don't see that in product spec sheets. If anything, they brag about quick charging and long intervals between charges. Does it stop charging at 80% of capacity, and start warning me when it discharges to 20%? If the charge state is only indicated by a 5 bar display, do those bars indicate the full charge range, or only the part between 10% and 90% (like the gas gauge in a car)? Does the number of cycles depend on whether I use the charger that came with the device?
Ideally, I'd also like some control over battery management - e.g., only charge my smartphone up to 80% unless I'll be taking a long flight the next day.
Companies ripping off customers because the customers cannot tell something is going to break down after 2.5 years (2 years mandatory warranty in the EU) is just completely unacceptable. Sure, I personally have a policy to never buy again from anybody that does this to me, and that has worked pretty well so far, although I have had to amend it to "for a few years". (Currently on my shit-list: Netgear, Asus, Seagate permanently, Enermax for bad PSU fans.) But ordinary people are basically getting screwed over because they do not really understand what is going on and usually they have far less disposable income than I do so they are hit harder. That is just not acceptable at all. Modern society critically depends on _not_ screwing over ordinary people and it is the only morally acceptable thing to prevent that.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Or we'll see old phones resold as low end phones...
But yeah, you can't do this without some negative side-effects, it was probably the same with RoHS... With any luck though customers will never notice and half the world will adopt the standards because making products they can't sell the EU is bad business.
I can't replace CPU/RAM/HDD on my MBP when it fails...
Though I have no interest going back to the days where all the components were pluggable and I had a 10lb laptop.
Why only phones and tech? I can resole a pair of leather shoes, but my sneakers, I cannot get resoled? What gives Nike?
auto drive cars will need free software/ maps years at least 6+ as the last thing you want is for one to shut down do lacking an software update just for ford to say after 2-3 yeas you can buy a new car or go to dealer for an update at say $500-$1000.
What if they need super mapped roads and say to keep driving you can to do the dealer for an 4TB hdd upgrade for only $500-$600 or you can put car into limited my zone mode as the factory 320GB hdd can only fit an area 800 miles from your home base.
and ultrasonic welding if they feel like being a real cunt
Notes the role of commercial strategies, such as product leasing, in the design of durable products, whereby leasing firms retain ownership of the leased units and have an incentive to remarket products and to invest in designing more durable products, resulting in a lower volume of new production and disposal products;... Highlights that the shift towards business models such as ‘products as services’ has the potential to improve the sustainability of production and consumption patterns.
Part of the report seems to dwell on the potential benefits of a shift away from people actually owning any products...
We've seen how this works out on the software side of things...
More likely we'll see some sort of design where you can easily switch one component for another to make it repairable for Europe while keeping the rest of the world in the trash loop.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.