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Bernie Sanders is a bona-fide Communist, actually — a prominent member of the Democratic Socialists of America. Complete with nationalizing means of production.

He may be talking about making America more like Scandinavia, but the end result would've been more like Venezuela.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for Hillary to "disown" and reject the Communist endorsement.

I have a photograph of myself standing next to the first President Bush. I am not a Republican

Is there a picture of yourself giving a speech at a podium, while President Bush looks at you (admiringly)? Probably, not...

Ok, to rehash. You agree that Communism is evil, that's a relief. You seem to agree, that DSA are Communist enough to taint any member — if he is a member.

But you insist that:

• Sanders is a Democrat.
• Sanders is not a member of Democratic Socialists of America

The first point is not entirely relevant, so I'll just point out, that Sanders is constantly identified as "an Independent" — he is caucusing with Democrats in Senate, but he is not one of them. The usual state/party designation next to his name is (VT, I.).

He is running for a Democratic Party nomination this year, but that's neither here nor there. Ron Paul ran for Republican nomination several times, but he is a Libertarian...

Now, is he a member of DSA? Here is my evidence:

• He gave speeches at their events — more than once. (1991, 1994, 2006.)
• He is referred to as a member by the party's own materials: Bernie Sanders — the independent Maine [sic] Senator and DSA member.
• He thanked them for their helping him in his 2006 Senate race.
• The party's current strategy lists "grassroots work for Bernie Sanders" as its number one priority. And it is not mere words.
• He refers to himself in conversations as a "democratic socialist" (carefully leaving ambiguous, whether that means a political philosophy or a particular party).
• His own site promotes "talks" about both DSA and "democratic socialism".
• He is viewed rather admiringly by the DSA.

With so much evidence, it is way past time he repudiated their support, don't you think? Unless he welcomes it, of course. Far less evidence was ever presented, that Donald Trump was a KKK-member, for example, before angry voices and sneaky interviewers demanded, he "repudiates" that organization. Talk about "intellectual honesty"...

Even if a stubborn juror may insist, the above evidence does not convict Bernie Sanders of being a Communist beyond reasonable doubt, there is certainly enough to rule against him on the slightly lower preponderance of evidence standard. He is a Communist alright...

Lastly, about your (and others') attempts to distinguish between Communism and Socialism... The distinction is without difference — Socialism is merely Communism-lite.

But even if you disagree, who would want a Hugo Chavez — another "Socialist not a Communist" — to become President of their country? Because, other than the late Presidente's anti-Semitism, the Senator's ideas are indistinguishable from his...

I have a photograph of myself standing next to the first President Bush. I am not a Republican

Is there a picture of yourself giving a speech at a podium, while President Bush looks at you (admiringly)? Probably, not...

Ok, to rehash. You agree that Communism is evil, that's a relief. You seem to agree, that DSA are Communist enough to taint any member — if he is a member.

But you insist that:

• Sanders is a Democrat.
• Sanders is not a member of Democratic Socialists of America

The first point is not entirely relevant, so I'll just point out, that Sanders is constantly identified as "an Independent" — he is caucusing with Democrats in Senate, but he is not one of them. The usual state/party designation next to his name is (VT, I.).

He is running for a Democratic Party nomination this year, but that's neither here nor there. Ron Paul ran for Republican nomination several times, but he is a Libertarian...

Now, is he a member of DSA? Here is my evidence:

• He gave speeches at their events — more than once. (1991, 1994, 2006.)
• He is referred to as a member by the party's own materials: Bernie Sanders — the independent Maine [sic] Senator and DSA member.
• He thanked them for their helping him in his 2006 Senate race.
• The party's current strategy lists "grassroots work for Bernie Sanders" as its number one priority. And it is not mere words.
• He refers to himself in conversations as a "democratic socialist" (carefully leaving ambiguous, whether that means a political philosophy or a particular party).
• His own site promotes "talks" about both DSA and "democratic socialism".
• He is viewed rather admiringly by the DSA.

With so much evidence, it is way past time he repudiated their support, don't you think? Unless he welcomes it, of course. Far less evidence was ever presented, that Donald Trump was a KKK-member, for example, before angry voices and sneaky interviewers demanded, he "repudiates" that organization. Talk about "intellectual honesty"...

Even if a stubborn juror may insist, the above evidence does not convict Bernie Sanders of being a Communist beyond reasonable doubt, there is certainly enough to rule against him on the slightly lower preponderance of evidence standard. He is a Communist alright...

Lastly, about your (and others') attempts to distinguish between Communism and Socialism... The distinction is without difference — Socialism is merely Communism-lite.

But even if you disagree, who would want a Hugo Chavez — another "Socialist not a Communist" — to become President of their country? Because, other than the late Presidente's anti-Semitism, the Senator's ideas are indistinguishable from his...

I have a photograph of myself standing next to the first President Bush. I am not a Republican

Is there a picture of yourself giving a speech at a podium, while President Bush looks at you (admiringly)? Probably, not...

Ok, to rehash. You agree that Communism is evil, that's a relief. You seem to agree, that DSA are Communist enough to taint any member — if he is a member.

But you insist that:

• Sanders is a Democrat.
• Sanders is not a member of Democratic Socialists of America

The first point is not entirely relevant, so I'll just point out, that Sanders is constantly identified as "an Independent" — he is caucusing with Democrats in Senate, but he is not one of them. The usual state/party designation next to his name is (VT, I.).

He is running for a Democratic Party nomination this year, but that's neither here nor there. Ron Paul ran for Republican nomination several times, but he is a Libertarian...

Now, is he a member of DSA? Here is my evidence:

• He gave speeches at their events — more than once. (1991, 1994, 2006.)
• He is referred to as a member by the party's own materials: Bernie Sanders — the independent Maine [sic] Senator and DSA member.
• He thanked them for their helping him in his 2006 Senate race.
• The party's current strategy lists "grassroots work for Bernie Sanders" as its number one priority. And it is not mere words.
• He refers to himself in conversations as a "democratic socialist" (carefully leaving ambiguous, whether that means a political philosophy or a particular party).
• His own site promotes "talks" about both DSA and "democratic socialism".
• He is viewed rather admiringly by the DSA.

With so much evidence, it is way past time he repudiated their support, don't you think? Unless he welcomes it, of course. Far less evidence was ever presented, that Donald Trump was a KKK-member, for example, before angry voices and sneaky interviewers demanded, he "repudiates" that organization. Talk about "intellectual honesty"...

Even if a stubborn juror may insist, the above evidence does not convict Bernie Sanders of being a Communist beyond reasonable doubt, there is certainly enough to rule against him on the slightly lower preponderance of evidence standard. He is a Communist alright...

Lastly, about your (and others') attempts to distinguish between Communism and Socialism... The distinction is without difference — Socialism is merely Communism-lite.

But even if you disagree, who would want a Hugo Chavez — another "Socialist not a Communist" — to become President of their country? Because, other than the late Presidente's anti-Semitism, the Senator's ideas are indistinguishable from his...

I have a photograph of myself standing next to the first President Bush. I am not a Republican

Is there a picture of yourself giving a speech at a podium, while President Bush looks at you (admiringly)? Probably, not...

Ok, to rehash. You agree that Communism is evil, that's a relief. You seem to agree, that DSA are Communist enough to taint any member — if he is a member.

But you insist that:

• Sanders is a Democrat.
• Sanders is not a member of Democratic Socialists of America

The first point is not entirely relevant, so I'll just point out, that Sanders is constantly identified as "an Independent" — he is caucusing with Democrats in Senate, but he is not one of them. The usual state/party designation next to his name is (VT, I.).

He is running for a Democratic Party nomination this year, but that's neither here nor there. Ron Paul ran for Republican nomination several times, but he is a Libertarian...

Now, is he a member of DSA? Here is my evidence:

• He gave speeches at their events — more than once. (1991, 1994, 2006.)
• He is referred to as a member by the party's own materials: Bernie Sanders — the independent Maine [sic] Senator and DSA member.
• He thanked them for their helping him in his 2006 Senate race.
• The party's current strategy lists "grassroots work for Bernie Sanders" as its number one priority. And it is not mere words.
• He refers to himself in conversations as a "democratic socialist" (carefully leaving ambiguous, whether that means a political philosophy or a particular party).
• His own site promotes "talks" about both DSA and "democratic socialism".
• He is viewed rather admiringly by the DSA.

With so much evidence, it is way past time he repudiated their support, don't you think? Unless he welcomes it, of course. Far less evidence was ever presented, that Donald Trump was a KKK-member, for example, before angry voices and sneaky interviewers demanded, he "repudiates" that organization. Talk about "intellectual honesty"...

Even if a stubborn juror may insist, the above evidence does not convict Bernie Sanders of being a Communist beyond reasonable doubt, there is certainly enough to rule against him on the slightly lower preponderance of evidence standard. He is a Communist alright...

Lastly, about your (and others') attempts to distinguish between Communism and Socialism... The distinction is without difference — Socialism is merely Communism-lite.

But even if you disagree, who would want a Hugo Chavez — another "Socialist not a Communist" — to become President of their country? Because, other than the late Presidente's anti-Semitism, the Senator's ideas are indistinguishable from his...

Guy does not think he is a communist (hint: "democratic socialist" is not the same thing)

Whatever the fook "democratic socialist" means, Bernie Sanders is not that. He is a "Democratic Socialist" — an important distinction not easily obvious in verbal communications — a member of an American party, which adores Karl Marx and other Communists of the past and is arguing in support of collective ownership of the means of production. Page 10 from Exhibit A:

Our goal as socialists is to abolish private ownership of the means of production. Our immediate task is to limit the capitalist class’s prerogatives in the workplace

That is Communism by definition. And the guy, who wrote the above is David Green — a member of DSA National Committee — is standing right next to Senator Sanders during his speech at a DSA convention...

If you choose to engage in a dialogue, be sure to state unambiguously upfront, whether:

1. You agree, that DSA are Communists (wholly or in a substantial part).
2. You accept, that Bernie Sanders is a member of that party.
3. Communism is the most murderous school of thought known to humanity so far.

Responses without clear answers to the above three questions will be returned unopened.

Guy does not think he is a communist (hint: "democratic socialist" is not the same thing)

Whatever the fook "democratic socialist" means, Bernie Sanders is not that. He is a "Democratic Socialist" — an important distinction not easily obvious in verbal communications — a member of an American party, which adores Karl Marx and other Communists of the past and is arguing in support of collective ownership of the means of production. Page 10 from Exhibit A:

Our goal as socialists is to abolish private ownership of the means of production. Our immediate task is to limit the capitalist class’s prerogatives in the workplace

That is Communism by definition. And the guy, who wrote the above is David Green — a member of DSA National Committee — is standing right next to Senator Sanders during his speech at a DSA convention...

If you choose to engage in a dialogue, be sure to state unambiguously upfront, whether:

1. You agree, that DSA are Communists (wholly or in a substantial part).
2. You accept, that Bernie Sanders is a member of that party.
3. Communism is the most murderous school of thought known to humanity so far.

Responses without clear answers to the above three questions will be returned unopened.

One, it is pointless because it won't happen.

If you told me 20 years ago, that a self-identified "Democratic Socialist" (and a bona-fide Communist underneath) will soon have a fair shot at becoming President of the US, I would've dismissed it with the same derision... But today's youth does not care any more — the Socialism/Communism's 100 years of failure (and mass-murder) are not taught in schools.

Two, it is a pointless claim because there are no democrats currently in Washington who are willing to propose anything that even slightly resembles an initiative to "give control of healthcare to the government".

Currently is the caveat-emptor, is not it? Look on this very board — numerous people speak in favor of "single payer", and they all vote...

Even the most socialized of all medical systems still give the physicians at least as much autonomy as our system does.

TFA is not about "authority" — it is about incompetence. When doctors become government-employees — as they are in Cuba so beloved by the likes of Bernie Sanders and Michael Moore, and other worker paradises — the healthcare will suck just as it does there.

And we are on our way — by many indications, Obamacare was designed to fail, and is failing as "CO-OPs" go bankrupt, and major commercial insurers threaten to withdraw. It did not "bend the curve" of the costs either — the grows of healthcare costs is accelerating.

It will continue to suck. Which will allow the next "progressive" President to claim "the market approach has failed" — and turn to a government-owned (euphemistically called "single payer") system. Obama himself would've done it — with enthusiastic support from morons like certain anonymous cowards replying to you — but "the nation was not ready" so he simply laid down the ground work for the future:

"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that's what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That's what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we've got to take back the White House, we've got to take back the Senate, and we've got to take back the House."

In other words, you are just parroting standard slashdot conservative FUD.

You seem like the kind, who'd be trying t

If he aint talking about government ownership of all means of production....he isn't a communist.

He may not be talking about it openly, but there are enough dog whistles in there to attract vast packs. But, whether he talks about it is irrelevant — whether he believes in it is important. And he does... Bernie Sanders is a member of an organization, that is a thin front for Communists.

They know of the toxicity of the "Communist" label (preferring "Socialist" instead), but aren't shy about their admiration for Marx. For example, here DSA speaks fondly of the founder of Communist Party of Italy. Separately a member of DSA's "National Committee" David Green once wrote:

Our goal as socialists is to abolish private ownership of the means of production. Our immediate task is to limit the capitalist class’s prerogatives in the workplace.

— David Green, 2007 (page 10)

Ah, you'll say, that's all from capitalist haters, just can't be true, right? Well, here is fresh from DSA's own mouth (emphasis mine):

And while Sanders’ platform calls primarily for government to heal the ravages of unrestrained capitalism, it also includes more radical reforms that shift control over capital from corporations to social ownership

Good enough for you? Far less evidence was used to claim "Trump is a KKK-supporter" or something like that...

Anyone replying to this post and expecting to continue the conversation, please, be sure to state unambiguously:

• Whether you dispute DSA being a Communist organization (at least in substantial part).
• Whether you dispute Bernie Sanders being a member.
• Whether or not you think there is anything wrong with Communism to begin with.

Responses missing clear answers to the above will be returned unopened. Thank you.

If he aint talking about government ownership of all means of production....he isn't a communist.

He may not be talking about it openly, but there are enough dog whistles in there to attract vast packs. But, whether he talks about it is irrelevant — whether he believes in it is important. And he does... Bernie Sanders is a member of an organization, that is a thin front for Communists.

They know of the toxicity of the "Communist" label (preferring "Socialist" instead), but aren't shy about their admiration for Marx. For example, here DSA speaks fondly of the founder of Communist Party of Italy. Separately a member of DSA's "National Committee" David Green once wrote:

Our goal as socialists is to abolish private ownership of the means of production. Our immediate task is to limit the capitalist class’s prerogatives in the workplace.

— David Green, 2007 (page 10)

Ah, you'll say, that's all from capitalist haters, just can't be true, right? Well, here is fresh from DSA's own mouth (emphasis mine):

And while Sanders’ platform calls primarily for government to heal the ravages of unrestrained capitalism, it also includes more radical reforms that shift control over capital from corporations to social ownership

Good enough for you? Far less evidence was used to claim "Trump is a KKK-supporter" or something like that...

Anyone replying to this post and expecting to continue the conversation, please, be sure to state unambiguously:

• Whether you dispute DSA being a Communist organization (at least in substantial part).
• Whether you dispute Bernie Sanders being a member.
• Whether or not you think there is anything wrong with Communism to begin with.

Responses missing clear answers to the above will be returned unopened. Thank you.

If he aint talking about government ownership of all means of production....he isn't a communist.

He may not be talking about it openly, but there are enough dog whistles in there to attract vast packs. But, whether he talks about it is irrelevant — whether he believes in it is important. And he does... Bernie Sanders is a member of an organization, that is a thin front for Communists.

They know of the toxicity of the "Communist" label (preferring "Socialist" instead), but aren't shy about their admiration for Marx. For example, here DSA speaks fondly of the founder of Communist Party of Italy. Separately a member of DSA's "National Committee" David Green once wrote:

Our goal as socialists is to abolish private ownership of the means of production. Our immediate task is to limit the capitalist class’s prerogatives in the workplace.

— David Green, 2007 (page 10)

Ah, you'll say, that's all from capitalist haters, just can't be true, right? Well, here is fresh from DSA's own mouth (emphasis mine):

And while Sanders’ platform calls primarily for government to heal the ravages of unrestrained capitalism, it also includes more radical reforms that shift control over capital from corporations to social ownership

Good enough for you? Far less evidence was used to claim "Trump is a KKK-supporter" or something like that...

Anyone replying to this post and expecting to continue the conversation, please, be sure to state unambiguously:

• Whether you dispute DSA being a Communist organization (at least in substantial part).
• Whether you dispute Bernie Sanders being a member.
• Whether or not you think there is anything wrong with Communism to begin with.

Responses missing clear answers to the above will be returned unopened. Thank you.

Chinese never denied spying on everyone

Are you fucking serious?