Domain: unvienna.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to unvienna.org.
Comments · 56
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Re:You didn't...
"Trailblazer is expected to launch from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan within the next nine to 12 months. "
So, WTF does it have to do withthe US government?
From the Space Law pages:
"The Outer Space Treaty states that States Parties shall bear international responsibility for national activities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, whether such activities are carried out by governmental agencies or non-governmental entities, and for assuring that national activities are carried out in conformity with the provisions set forth in the treaty. The Treaty further states that the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party."
Presumably TransOrbital is registered in the US, so the US government will be responsible for supervising any activities. -
Re:Who "owns" the moon, anyway?
Legal status of the moon according to the UN: http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/SpaceLaw/moon.html
No mention of the United States as having any special rights. -
Re:eh, leave it to the pros
1) The survery is a self-selected group. Britney Spears nuts aren't going to visit planetary.org
2) NASA is not independently wealthy. The funding they get is ultimately reliant on public opinion, because they are the ones who pay for, and if they complain loud enough in these recessionary times, politicians will look for things to cut. By doing thing, they (hopefully) will be working on projects that *do* have public support, and therefore will be spared the ax.
But I do find it flawed. Better solutions would be:
1) Privatize NASA so they aren't dependent on public funds.
2) Do what we need to do to extricate ourselves from the Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space Treaty, which effectively outlaws any private interests in space.
I'm quite anti-corporate, and as a topic for another thread I could discuss reforms in corporate law and legal status, but I don't view them as inheritly evil.
That said, it's obvious that corporations are many times better at marshalling resources and getting things done than a government agency, given the motivation of shareholder return on investment. -
Humans will not set foot on Mars for generationsConsidering the cost of a manned expedition to Mars, there will not be an economic incentive to do so because international treaty prohibits in Article II "national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means."
But we have seen this before in human history, for example, the Ming Dynasty of China and the voyages of the eunuch Zhen He (Cheng Ho). China at that time had broken free from Mongol rule, and centuries of progress in engineering, science, arts, and philosophy could justify a Chinese feeling that the Ming Dynasty was the greatest civilization the Earth had ever seen. For seven voyages Zheng He captained a stupendous fleet that explored the coasts all the way to East Africa, trading and exacting tribute. In theory Southeast Asia, the surrounding islands, and the coasts of the Indian Ocean lay at China's feet.
The problem was that China was the center of civilization. There was no immediate reason to conquer and displace inferiors. What could they offer China? China had no incentive to put skin in the game. And since China's explorations were financed and controlled by the government, once the program lost favor with the leadership, all such exploration could be swiftly terminated.
Today's space craft sent to other planets or other outer space bodies are our equivalent of the voyages of Zheng He. For a generation the idea of exploring space captured the imagination of a rising and relatively rich civilization. But now the civilization is facing other concerns, concerns closer to home. And the civilization believes that it is the greatest of all time with no competitor on the horizon. The greatest science, the greatest engineering, the greatest arts, the greatest philosophy all permeate the civilization, one which can earnestly ask if it has reached the end of history.
And the civilization has a better alternate space program than one that could actually be physically constructed. Through the magic of special effects in television, movies, and games all potential space programs and futures can be experienced by the masses, the ultimate space program of the mind.
The cycles of history teach us that such a period of self-satisfaction turns into degeneration and finally collapse. After the wise king follows the corrupt sons and grandsons who cannot hold the kingdom together let alone promote expansion. The failure of this generation to take its shot at further manned space exploration means it will be a while until the next window of opportunity opens.
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don't be so sure !!The real issue in Nuclear power is the true cost of nuclear power. The pro-nuclear power lobby usually hide the hidden costs associated with waste processing, plant life, etc There are plenty of excellent books and reports availabe on this.
Regarding nuclear material sent up with the help of rockets. Already these are widely used as power sources in Spy Satellites and deep space probes. Plenty of information is available. Then there are the UN/international guidelines.
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Re: Outer Space Treaty
The 1967 Outer Space Treaty does not ban commercial ventures. It bans national sovereignty and nuclear weapons and any obstacle to free access, among many other things, but puts responsibility for compliance in the hands of the signatories, e.g. the US is responsible for making sure that no US companies violate the treaty. The treaty didn't really envision private space launches, so it's going to be obsolete eventually, but it does have an amendment procedure.
Now, the 1979 Moon Treaty does ban, in effect, private property rights on the Moon. That's a little different, and a potential obstacle to development, but Russia and China have both come around to free enterprise and trade, and we'll have to see what happens. The basic problem is the same as Antarctica: everyone will eventually want the resources, the only question is who gets the benefits of bringing them back to Earth. Most likely the treaty signatories will eventually provide commercial charters a la those that were used to initially explore and exploit the Americas (like the Hudsons Bay Company). I think this is so obvious and practical that we can assume it as the long-term outcome, though I don't discount political delays in getting there.
>Since when does NASA overrule the UN?
Since when does the UN have any jurisdiction over NASA or the USA? The UN, contrary to myth, is not a world government, it is a diplomatic body governed by treaty. The UN sponsored, but does not control, the space treaty; only the signatories govern the space treaty. If the US signs a treaty, it's obligated to live up to what it promised, which is why treatys are few and far between and argued over for years. But as far as the UN is concerned, the Assembly can pass resolutions of condemnation as many times as it likes and the US, like anyone else (say Saddam Hussein) may freely thumb its nose at them. Even the UN Security Council is effectively toothless in the face of a permanent member such as the US choosing to flout its decisions.
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