Domain: vehiclechoice.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to vehiclechoice.org.
Comments · 7
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False False analogy."...locally, contrails are equally as significant as greenhouse gases"
Baloney.
First of all, if the analogy holds any water at all (excuse the pun), then locally, contrails are equally as significant as a really cloudy day.
The destructive nature of greenhouse gases has been piped loud and clear regarding the CFC-Ozone reactions that allegedly occur in emitted fossil fuels in the high atmosphere. Here [ucsusa.org] is a decent description of the process.
Take a look at the link you yourself provided.
- 2. What have humans done to the ozone layer?
Humans have damaged the ozone layer by adding molecules containing chlorine or bromine that lead to ozone destruction. ..."
Nothing there about fossil fuels or jets. Read a little more and you'll learn those "molecules" are gases which are released on the ground. - "5. Is ozone depletion related to global warming?
No. Ozone depletion and global warming are separate problems, though some agents contribute to both." - "CFCs are responsible for less than 10 percent of total atmospheric warming, far less than the 63 percent contribution of carbon dioxide."
Total atmospheric warming? I think water vapor contributed a bit more than carbon dioxide to the total greenhouse effect.
There have been many loud things said about greenhouse gases, but apparently not clearly enough.
- 2. What have humans done to the ozone layer?
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Re:Interesting quote
Thats how far the data goes. Doesnt mean that 1653 was warmer.
Right. In fact is was probably far colder, since the world at the time was in the middle of the Little Ice Age.
In fact, things got much more unusually cold back then than they are unusually warm today. That's why thermometers were invented then. -
That's not why SUV's took off
Think CAFE: Corporate Average Fuel Economy.
CAFE standards require each automaker to meet a sales-weighted average fuel economy level for the fleets of new cars and light trucks it sells each year... One standard governs passenger cars, and another governs light trucks.
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Another result of CAFE has been a marked increase in the sales of light trucks including pickups, vans, minivans and sport utility vehicles. As cars became smaller and lighter, some models (like large station wagons) became harder to find. Since some consumers could no longer find the utility and performance they desired in cars, many switched to light trucks. In the mid-1970s, light trucks made up 20% of light-duty vehicle sales; today, they make up about 40% of new vehicle sales.Basically, the car manufacturers realized they couldn't keep producing full-size station wagons and still meet CAFE standards. But since "light trucks" not only have a less stringent standard, but also are counted separately from their cars, they could replace full-size wagons in their lines with SUV's and mini-vans instead.
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Re:No, I don't believe
Well you don't have to belive the ice ages on this planet have happened recently and climate changes can be dramtic enough without undue influence from man . Besides that althou the planet is a couple of billion years old the exsistance of man on this planet is not. Man made pollutants have rendered areas unihabatible . These factors contribute to atmosphic pollutants which help the global warming isssue. The planet may exsist another couple of billion years. How ever it may not be able to support life. Humans should try to contribute to a continued exsistance and not a quick destruction.
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Re:I never would have thoughtWe are more powerful now than we were 1,000 years ago. Project that 1,000 years into the future and it is almost unimaginable how much control we might have over our food sources. My whole argument is that as human-kind progresses, we are learning to expand into previously unformidable environments. Compare our existence now to that of 1,000 years ago and look where we might be 1,000 years from now. And the technology curve isn't even a linear increase.
You claim there was a dust bowl in the 1930's. I tell you there was an ice age in the late 1600s and early 1700s. What do you think had a larger impact? My guess is that the global ice age had more impact. But, we survived.
So, Stephen Hawking may think that at the current rate of pollutant production and current state of technology that we're doomed within 1,000 years. But, 1,000 years is a long time for things to change, especially as our technological prowess increases. We could certainly use our increasing powers to destroy ourselves faster. But I submit that human kind has come this far by having a will to survive slightly stronger than our will to destory simply for our convenience.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say Stephen Hawkin was running for office on an environmentalist ticket. Now, I'm all for the environment, but I also think we have to look outside the lifespan of humans to see trends that are "bigger than life". And I think that trend has been that humans and the earth have survived. We are part of nature, not separate from it. We evolve with nature and nature evolves with us.
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Doubt it..."It's taken us three hundred years to upset the planet's balance"
Three hundred years ago is when the Little Ice Age happened. It was unusually cold then, so of course it's warmer now.
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Re:"Noxious" Carbon Dioxide? - NOT
Water vapor causes 98% of the Earth's greenhouse effect. Carbon dioxide gets called "major" because environmentalists love water and can't do anything about it. Imagine what the next ice age will do to the present environment.