Domain: yp.to
Stories and comments across the archive that link to yp.to.
Comments · 1,222
-
Re:If only it were so good...
The real answer (that can't be implemented because nobody will put in the effort) is that messages should be stored and kept on the senders side. Push technology died ages ago, except for email/usenet. It should die for email as well (don't know so much for usenet, though).
If the 0.1 GB of photos you want to send from work to someone's dialup (I'm in tech support, this happens at least a few hundred times a day) had to be stored by your company, your ass would get fired once you filled up the email server with that trash. And the dialup user on the other end would just laugh and not care. If the message you sent were actually important, the receiver could actually decide to... (gasp!) archive it!
Of course, this means spammers have to keep a server running constantly to serve spam. As you can imagine, they would try to use botnets. But these are always moving targets, most people infected are only online for an hour or two a day. Then the spam goes away. As you can imagine, this shrinks the window of opportunity down significantly for spammers and it means they will have to root actual 24/7 boxes. This usually involves some actual skill, and is usually detected, and will often result in prosecution (depending on their location, of course).
Basically, as usual, djb is right, but we can't use his ideas, again, because people are lazy. :-( -
Re:claiming?The journal is saying that, if you want them to publish your work (which no-one is forcing you to do) then you must assign them the copyright. If you don't like it, publish in a different journal.
According to DJB, you don't even have to do that in a lot of cases:
Readers have to be free to download your papers and print them out. You will probably also want mirrors, i.e., copies of your papers available from other sites around the world.Please don't sign any contracts that prevent you from authorizing these activities! In several cases I've said something like
This paper is entirely my own work. I have put it into the public domain. Luxury Press is therefore free to publish it. instead of signing a copyright transfer agreement. If you ever encounter a publisher that doesn't accept this, let me know, and I'll be happy to blacklist that publisher here. I'm now blacklisting IEEE. -
Re:What's wrong with this plan?
IPv4 packets would be turned into IPv6 packets in the IPv4 subset of the IPv6 address space when they left the IPv4 endpoints, and then turned back to IPv4 if the destination didn't support IPv6.
Unfortunately the IPv4 address space isn't embedded in the IPv6 address space in the way that you suggest. Dan Bernstein pointed out many years ago that this was a mistake.
-
Re:The IPv6 mess
"I think this article by Dan Bernstein is a pretty good read regarding this subject - http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html"
Bernstein is quite right as always, but you don't care and unlike Bush, don't need to panic. There's lots of milage left in the protocol and those that think we're running out of addresses just aren't looking at the packet headers. They're in meetings instead.
http://rs79.vrx.net/interests/computers/net/v6failure/
This is a non-issue. -
Not compatible, not happening
DJB said it best at http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html Why switch from an Internet with a billion people on it to one that has nobody on it that can't be reached by IPv4?
-
The IPv6 mess
I think this article by Dan Bernstein is a pretty good read regarding this subject.
-
No, the answer is not to use "int" for timeBy 2038, no major consumer cpu manufacturer will be producing anything but 64 bit chips.
I noticed that you were careful to refer specifically to "consumer" CPU manufacturers. However, 8-bit, 16-bit, and 32-bit CPUs are still in widespread use in both consumer and industrial (embedded) electronics, and there's no reason to expect that electronics manufacturers will start using 64-bit processors exclusively, when 32 (or-fewer) bits-per-word will suffice.
Prof. Daniel Bernstein came up with a decent integer time representation called TAI64, and a public-domain library for using this representation. Using it requires getting over one's dislike of his personality, but would mostly solve the 2038 problem long before the year 2038 hits.
-
No, the answer is not to use "int" for timeBy 2038, no major consumer cpu manufacturer will be producing anything but 64 bit chips.
I noticed that you were careful to refer specifically to "consumer" CPU manufacturers. However, 8-bit, 16-bit, and 32-bit CPUs are still in widespread use in both consumer and industrial (embedded) electronics, and there's no reason to expect that electronics manufacturers will start using 64-bit processors exclusively, when 32 (or-fewer) bits-per-word will suffice.
Prof. Daniel Bernstein came up with a decent integer time representation called TAI64, and a public-domain library for using this representation. Using it requires getting over one's dislike of his personality, but would mostly solve the 2038 problem long before the year 2038 hits.
-
You're doing it wrongThe talk referenced by Schneier in his essay as being the one that publicly disclosed the backdoor was given by two Microsoft researchers. So all the "OMG micro$oft iz so stoopid" posts might be a bit
.... misdirected. Shhhh! That's not the way to bash Vista! Regardless, I was wondering when this little fact would spring up, and lo and behold it is by an AC after hundreds of 'stupid microsoft' quips.
Let us all eat a large slice of humble pie. -
Worth Noting
-
Obligatory
A link to DJB's essay on the issues of IPV6 adoption feels obligatory here.
-
No license does not give redistribution rights
That appears to be his take on 'software law', his own page at http://cr.yp.to/softwarelaw.html shows his position. Hoever, from an open-source point of view, notice how how he doesn't allow for distributions of modified versions of his software?
"Once you've legally downloaded a program, you can compile it. You can run it. You can modify it. You can distribute your patches for other people to use ... As long as you're not distributing the software, you have nothing to worry about. ".
Right, really open source that. He's asserting the absence of a license allows only the distribution of patches (which could well be true) but not particuarlly open-source like! Critically, you have no redistribution rights to the program itself from the absence of a license. Indeed, I think DJB and RMS are in agreement on this point.
DJB did, however, allow limited redistribution, so long as the tar.gz's were the specific tar.gz's that he distributed with that exact MD5 checksum. The only precompiled binaries you were permitted to distribute "if (1) installing the package produces exactly the same /var/qmail hierarchy as a user would obtain by downloading, compiling, and installing qmail-1.03.tar.gz, fastforward-0.51.tar.gz, and dot-forward-0.71.tar.gz;" (same page).
Again, no redistribution of modified source or binaries derived from modified source - definintly not open-source.
(That same page, now, merely states the final .tar.gz (1.03) is in the public domain) -
No license does not give redistribution rights
That appears to be his take on 'software law', his own page at http://cr.yp.to/softwarelaw.html shows his position. Hoever, from an open-source point of view, notice how how he doesn't allow for distributions of modified versions of his software?
"Once you've legally downloaded a program, you can compile it. You can run it. You can modify it. You can distribute your patches for other people to use ... As long as you're not distributing the software, you have nothing to worry about. ".
Right, really open source that. He's asserting the absence of a license allows only the distribution of patches (which could well be true) but not particuarlly open-source like! Critically, you have no redistribution rights to the program itself from the absence of a license. Indeed, I think DJB and RMS are in agreement on this point.
DJB did, however, allow limited redistribution, so long as the tar.gz's were the specific tar.gz's that he distributed with that exact MD5 checksum. The only precompiled binaries you were permitted to distribute "if (1) installing the package produces exactly the same /var/qmail hierarchy as a user would obtain by downloading, compiling, and installing qmail-1.03.tar.gz, fastforward-0.51.tar.gz, and dot-forward-0.71.tar.gz;" (same page).
Again, no redistribution of modified source or binaries derived from modified source - definintly not open-source.
(That same page, now, merely states the final .tar.gz (1.03) is in the public domain) -
Re:OK so when exactly?Already.
From http://cr.yp.to/qmail/dist.html:
I hereby place the qmail package (in particular, qmail-1.03.tar.gz, with MD5 checksum 622f65f982e380dbe86e6574f3abcb7c) into the public domain. You are free to modify the package, distribute modified versions, etc.
-
Re:Market Capitalization tells another story
Mail: qmail pretty much rocks. Problems with Exchange start with the JET DB it is built on, and go downhill from there. (Note that this is from the view of operations/support, not so much users unless they need support)
Any iCal standard server is better as they're not running in the "integrated" Exchange JET DB. (did I mention that Exchange's problems start with the JET DB?)
Clients, that's MS's strong point. They managed to put some integration on the client side for proprietary (of course) data and create an interaction between calendaring, email, and address books (the lynch pin). No other client I'm aware of has combined LDAP (address book) with mail and iCal support that I'm aware of, except maybe Apple which still has separate apps. -
Re:DNSSEC is dead, let's move on
-
How to Fight and Keep your Job
You're not the only one that's been faced with the prospect of swallowing the end result of some dumb/greedy corporate lawyers. You can "comply" with the agreement, if you have to, and possibly keep your job while showing them how idiotic the policy is — especially if you can convince some coworkers to do the same.
-
Publishers quality editing: don't make me laugh
As an academic with publications, I find
the quality of the proofreaders and of the typesetters to be
abyssimal. I can accept that from a non profit journal that lacks manpower
but not from well known publishers (Elsevier cough Elsevier) that are sitting
on a pile of gold but are too cheap to hire good proofreaders and good typesetters.
Of course it is cheaper to hire monkeys typesetters and not to hire proofreaders.
Just read http://cr.yp.to/bib/20050504-copyediting.txt
to see what kind of work knowned publishers do. And it is a best case scenario:
cosmetic changes that neither add nor remove anything. In many cases, the typesetters
destroy the paper while editing it and since he doesn't indicate his changes, you have to reread
it line by line. -
Re:Which is worth more...
Slide 10: http://cr.yp.to/talks/2007.11.02/slides.pdf 2007.11: $500 ! $1000; qmail placed into public domain.
-
Re:security is paramount
Security at any cost? Easy. Unplug your computer. Done.
Getting the job done actually counts for a lot, you know.
Also, "security at any cost" would mean it wouldn't be a leading source of backscatter spam. Security at any cost would also mean that his array handling code would be very throughly checked to be secure no matter what enviroment it was running in. However:
"In May 2005, Georgi Guninski claimed that some potential 64-bit portability problems allowed a ``remote exploit in qmail-smtpd.'' This claim is denied. Nobody gives gigabytes of memory to each qmail-smtpd process, so there is no problem with qmail's assumption that allocated array lengths fit comfortably into 32 bits. " -- http://cr.yp.to/qmail/guarantee.html
(in reply to http://www.guninski.com/where_do_you_want_billg_to_go_today_4.html )
I very much doubt anyone bothers to put limits on processes (we assume that they're secure without relying on operating system features like that! Does DJB's installation instructions say to do this? I doubt it.
Anyway, if it was secure at any cost, why is is reliant on the OS providing that? Qmail on 64 bit with decent amounts of virtual memory available is seemingly easily compromised. -
Re:license
No documentation?? Every executable has a man page, even executables that the system runs (e.g. qmail-local or qmail-remote).
His licensing isn't poorly explained. But then again, you can't run 'man' so no wonder you couldn't Google for "djb licensing" and find http://cr.yp.to/distributors.html
Your third allegation was true until the publication of this PDF which you obviously didn't read since it included a dedication of qmail to the public domain.
The binaries aren't "mixed in with the mail spool". Binaries are in /var/qmail/bin, the queue is in /var/qmail/queue.
1 for 4. 25%. That's a failing grade in every school I know of. -
Re:I just love qmail
> 1. How do you start / stop your MTA?
/etc/init.d/... or delete a file and recreate it to restart.
http://cr.yp.to/daemontools/svc.html
svc -d /service/qmail - stops
svc -u /service/qmail - starts
svc -t /service/qmail - terminates the service and daemontools restart it.
> 2. How do you configure software? Config files or adding and removing files from a magic directory?
http://www.qmail.org/qmail-manual-html/man5/qmail-control.html
> 3. How do you kick the mail queue? Buggered if I can remember.
send ALRM to qmail-send process.
kill -s ALRM `pidof qmail-send` -
Qmail going public domain?
The bad thing is that the license is NOT FOSS.
Actually, that might be changing in the immediate future. Check out the slides to go with this talk, in particular, page 10 where there's a timeline including:
2007.11: $500 -> $1000;
qmail placed into public domain. -
qmail in the public domain?
According to one of DJB's slides it might happen this month that qmail will be placed into public domain. I hope this will become true as it might help qmail to get rid of its obsolescence.
-
licenseThe good thing is that is easy to work with and works really good. The bad thing is that the license is NOT FOSS. Sure, you can see the code and modify it but....from authors site: If you want to distribute modified versions of qmail (including ports, no matter how minor the changes are) you'll have to get my approval. This does not mean approval of your distribution method, your intentions, your e-mail address, your haircut, or any other irrelevant information. It means a detailed review of the exact package that you want to distribute.
-
Re:Uh ohWe should put Theo and Daniel J. Bernstein (DJB) and see who survives. These so-called 'visionaries' and have a hard time forming an argument without degrading the argument with words like 'stupid'. It's a real shame that men like these are considered leaders the Free Software movement.
After reading vitriolic posts by these two fools, RMS doesn't seem all that bad. I disagree. He seems to call it like it is. And I would agree that anyone deluded enough to think that adding another layer to the, already complex, PC model increases security is just stupid. Sure, it may be that they are not well versed in the inner workings of both the hardware and software, but does that make their assertion any more correct? And besides, he's on a mailing list where the majority of the readers should be close to his level of knowledge.. He may not be the most tactful guy in the world, but he's a hell of a lot smarter than most...
I've been on the fence about virtualization for a very long time now. Sure, it's quite convenient to install VMware, load up a guest OS, and tinker with new features. But to load up a server with multiple instances of the same operating system is ludicrous. It certainly doesn't scale well at all. And the marketing teams are incredibly good at making people believe that by installing their virtualization software, you'll suddenly have a bunch of "virtual" servers with the same capabilities as a single server. Sure, they all have the same capabilities from an OS standpoint, but performance isn't going to be anything close to a standalone server..
And as far as security goes, it's nonsense. Ok, so I install 5 copies of RHEL 5.0 on my virtual server. If the virtualization software itself is attacked and compromised, all 5 servers go down. If an OS level attack is successful, then all 5 virtual servers are likely vulnerable because it's an OS level attack. The only security "benefit" I can see is if a single virtual server is compromised through something like a web application. That application may not exist on the other virtual servers, so they're "safe".. However, once you get into that one server, DDoS attacks aren't far behind. At the very least, you'll take up resources and you can potentially impact the operation of the other virtual servers.
I'll stick with standalone servers for now.. At least until there's a better solution, of which I don't see one coming anytime soon... -
Re:Uh oh
We should put Theo and Daniel J. Bernstein (DJB) and see who survives. These so-called 'visionaries' and have a hard time forming an argument without degrading the argument with words like 'stupid'. It's a real shame that men like these are considered leaders the Free Software movement.
After reading vitriolic posts by these two fools, RMS doesn't seem all that bad. -
Re:Not exactly. I think.
If everybody is going to have to install new software, why not swap protocols?
http://cr.yp.to/im2000.html -
post-quantum cryptographyI googled (surprise!) and found this result:
"PQCrypto 2006: International Workshop on Post-Quantum Cryptography"
http://postquantum.cr.yp.to/
From The link:Will large quantum computers be built? If so, what will they do to the cryptographic landscape?
Anyone who can build a large quantum computer can break today's most popular public-key cryptosystems: e.g., RSA, DSA, and ECDSA. But there are several other cryptosystems that are conjectured to resist quantum computers: e.g., the Diffie-Lamport-Merkle signature system, the NTRU encryption system, the McEliece encryption system, and the HFE signature system. Exactly which of these systems are secure? How efficient are they, in theory and in practice?
PQCrypto 2006, the International Workshop on Post-Quantum Cryptography, will look ahead to a possible future of quantum computers, and will begin preparing the cryptographic world for that future. -
Re:Study funded by TI?
It was presented at the CRYPTO Rump Session: http://rump2007.cr.yp.to/
A rump session is a kind of free podium, meant to announce new results or entertain the audience with jokes (related to the area of research of course).
These guys just combined both: they presented a new result, but did so in an entertaining way.
Obviously they will write a serious research paper about this and publish it, probably at some other conference in the field of cryptography. -
Re:The IPv6 messProf. Bernstein pointed this out many years ago in http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html and there seems to have been no changes to make IPv6 deployable.
Dan's just a contrarian ass; always has been, always will be. For example, here's why he doesn't like IPv6:
Excerpt from a message I sent to the ngtrans mailing list on 2002.03.20:
(1) I'd like to connect my office computers to the IPv6 network, and make their services---the web server, for example, and the mail server---available to IPv6 clients around the world.
(2) I control the operating system and the applications. I am ready and willing to make various changes to the code.
(3) However, I refuse to provide any information to those programs beyond what they already have (such as my IPv4 addresses), and I refuse to do any work outside changing the programs themselves. I'm not going to ask my ISP for an IPv6 address, for example, and I'm not going to touch my DNS data.
Here's the big question: How do I achieve #1, taking advantage of #2, without violating #3?
In other words, "how can I run IPv6 without lifting a finger?" (or "how can I run IPv6 DNS without modifying my precious djbdns so that it supports AAAA records like every other server in the world?", despite what he says in #2). He goes on to explain why his dumb question isn't really dumb, even though it's still dumb.
Sure, you bring up some valid points. Don't make the mistake of bringing in DJB's opinions for support, though. Once he's decided that he doesn't like something, a team of wild horses can't make him change his mind.
-
The IPv6 mess
It is clear that IPv6 made several basic design decisions that, essentially, made IPv6 impossible to deploy. Prof. Bernstein pointed this out many years ago in http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html and there seems to have been no changes to make IPv6 deployable. As other people have pointed out, IEFT saying MUST means nothing - if they had the power, you would be reading slashdot over a IPv6 link already.
Basically, the problem is interoperability between IPv4 and IPv6. IPv6 is completely separate and not compatible with IPv4. This means there is no incentive for any server to go v6-only since there are all clients are v4; the most you can hope for is some servers going dual stack. There is no incentive for clients to go v6 since there will be servers that stay v4 and all severs will be at worst dual-stack, so there is no incentive for clients to go even dual-stack. When you figure in the cost of going dual-stack and the troubles that all ISP's will go through; there is huge incentive to stay v4. So it is surprising that the world has stayed IPv4? -
Re:Come again?
I just wish more places would use djbdns.
-
djbdns
I've been using djbdns for years. It takes some getting used to if you're coming from BIND-land but it's worth making the effort.
-
Re:NewThis weakness of BIND has been griped about for TEN YEARS!
http://www.openbsd.org/advisories/res_random.txt http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/forgery-cost.txt
-
Re:More comments then code...
2 & 3. it's DJB hasher. it's known to be good for strings. it's probably not nice to force people to google for 5381 to figure that out. you can find it described in DJB's cdb documentation, as well as many of his open source projects.
4. I agree. I couldn't come up with anything interesting for my specific example though, perhaps you can do better?
5. I agree. I certainly hate the repetition, but I did not do that in the comments I presented. I commented at a high level of what the syntax presented. .. do you have a specific example of what would be better? -
Shameful behavior from Posfix or qmail authorBefore praising postfix's code again, you might want to read this.
First, compare the way each author handled security disclosures.
Found nothing shameful? Did you see this about Postfix? http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
Next, compare the number of false public statements made by each author.
Found nothing? Did you see this about Postfix's author? http://cr.yp.to/qmail/venema.html
And finally, compare the number of security flaws and their severity in Postfix compared to qmail.
Ultimately, do you support or condone the behavior documented at http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
-- begin quote http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html --
IBM released Postfix with massive hype in mid-December 1998. ``IBM software to shield email from hackers,''
blared the Reuters headline. ``This will make IBM's and everyone's Internet activities more secure,'' IBM's network security research manager said in a prepared statement.A few days later I glanced at the Postfix security documentation. ``No Postfix program is set-uid,'' the Postfix author wrote. ``Introducing the concept was the biggest mistake made in UNIX history. Set-uid (and its weaker cousin, set-gid)
causes more trouble than it is worth.''This set off alarm bells in my head. ``Does postfix really use a world-writable directory
for people to drop off mail?'' I wrote in a 19981217 email message to another security expert.
``Is there anything that stops a user from making a hard link to another user's message, preventing postfix from delivering the message?''In fact, when Postfix saw an extra hard link, not only would it fail to deliver the message, but it would actively remove the hard link, Any local attacker could trivially exploit this to anonymously destroy other users' incoming or outgoing messages. There was no way for the system administrator to find the culprit, and no way to recover the messages.
The Postfix author's reaction to my first public comments was outright denial.
``Bernstein is wrong on all points,'' he said in a public statement in response to a summary of the problems. ``Bogus. ... Bogus. ... Bogus. ... Bogus.'' He continued by giving an example of how an incompetent attacker might fail to destroy a file.
Several people pointed out his mistake, but he continued to deny the problem. ``In my opinion, no-one has brought forward a vulnerability worth mentioning,'' he said in a bugtraq message titled ``Claimed Postfix Vulnerabilities.''I sent a detailed description of the vulnerability to bugtraq.
The Postfix author finally admitted that the attack would destroy mail. However, he didn't post a security alert on the Postfix web pages. Instead he added a brief note to the middle of the ``Postfix Errata'' page:
A local user can hard link a maildrop queue file to another
directory within the same file system, causing the mail to not be
delivered. Workaround: chmod 1733 /var/spool/postfix/maildrop, and
edit /etc/postfix/postfix-script, replacing 1777 by 1733.
When I saw this, I posted a note to comp.security.unix, explaining that this ``workaround'' simply didn't work. Any user could still anonymously destroy messages.The Postfix author followed up, using the subject line of ``DAN BERNSTEIN'S CLAIM'' without admitting that my claims were correct, summarizing the problems as ``local users [can] play games with hard links'' without mentioning that these games
-
Shameful behavior from Posfix or qmail authorBefore praising postfix's code again, you might want to read this.
First, compare the way each author handled security disclosures.
Found nothing shameful? Did you see this about Postfix? http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
Next, compare the number of false public statements made by each author.
Found nothing? Did you see this about Postfix's author? http://cr.yp.to/qmail/venema.html
And finally, compare the number of security flaws and their severity in Postfix compared to qmail.
Ultimately, do you support or condone the behavior documented at http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
-- begin quote http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html --
IBM released Postfix with massive hype in mid-December 1998. ``IBM software to shield email from hackers,''
blared the Reuters headline. ``This will make IBM's and everyone's Internet activities more secure,'' IBM's network security research manager said in a prepared statement.A few days later I glanced at the Postfix security documentation. ``No Postfix program is set-uid,'' the Postfix author wrote. ``Introducing the concept was the biggest mistake made in UNIX history. Set-uid (and its weaker cousin, set-gid)
causes more trouble than it is worth.''This set off alarm bells in my head. ``Does postfix really use a world-writable directory
for people to drop off mail?'' I wrote in a 19981217 email message to another security expert.
``Is there anything that stops a user from making a hard link to another user's message, preventing postfix from delivering the message?''In fact, when Postfix saw an extra hard link, not only would it fail to deliver the message, but it would actively remove the hard link, Any local attacker could trivially exploit this to anonymously destroy other users' incoming or outgoing messages. There was no way for the system administrator to find the culprit, and no way to recover the messages.
The Postfix author's reaction to my first public comments was outright denial.
``Bernstein is wrong on all points,'' he said in a public statement in response to a summary of the problems. ``Bogus. ... Bogus. ... Bogus. ... Bogus.'' He continued by giving an example of how an incompetent attacker might fail to destroy a file.
Several people pointed out his mistake, but he continued to deny the problem. ``In my opinion, no-one has brought forward a vulnerability worth mentioning,'' he said in a bugtraq message titled ``Claimed Postfix Vulnerabilities.''I sent a detailed description of the vulnerability to bugtraq.
The Postfix author finally admitted that the attack would destroy mail. However, he didn't post a security alert on the Postfix web pages. Instead he added a brief note to the middle of the ``Postfix Errata'' page:
A local user can hard link a maildrop queue file to another
directory within the same file system, causing the mail to not be
delivered. Workaround: chmod 1733 /var/spool/postfix/maildrop, and
edit /etc/postfix/postfix-script, replacing 1777 by 1733.
When I saw this, I posted a note to comp.security.unix, explaining that this ``workaround'' simply didn't work. Any user could still anonymously destroy messages.The Postfix author followed up, using the subject line of ``DAN BERNSTEIN'S CLAIM'' without admitting that my claims were correct, summarizing the problems as ``local users [can] play games with hard links'' without mentioning that these games
-
Shameful behavior from Posfix or qmail authorBefore praising postfix's code again, you might want to read this.
First, compare the way each author handled security disclosures.
Found nothing shameful? Did you see this about Postfix? http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
Next, compare the number of false public statements made by each author.
Found nothing? Did you see this about Postfix's author? http://cr.yp.to/qmail/venema.html
And finally, compare the number of security flaws and their severity in Postfix compared to qmail.
Ultimately, do you support or condone the behavior documented at http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
-- begin quote http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html --
IBM released Postfix with massive hype in mid-December 1998. ``IBM software to shield email from hackers,''
blared the Reuters headline. ``This will make IBM's and everyone's Internet activities more secure,'' IBM's network security research manager said in a prepared statement.A few days later I glanced at the Postfix security documentation. ``No Postfix program is set-uid,'' the Postfix author wrote. ``Introducing the concept was the biggest mistake made in UNIX history. Set-uid (and its weaker cousin, set-gid)
causes more trouble than it is worth.''This set off alarm bells in my head. ``Does postfix really use a world-writable directory
for people to drop off mail?'' I wrote in a 19981217 email message to another security expert.
``Is there anything that stops a user from making a hard link to another user's message, preventing postfix from delivering the message?''In fact, when Postfix saw an extra hard link, not only would it fail to deliver the message, but it would actively remove the hard link, Any local attacker could trivially exploit this to anonymously destroy other users' incoming or outgoing messages. There was no way for the system administrator to find the culprit, and no way to recover the messages.
The Postfix author's reaction to my first public comments was outright denial.
``Bernstein is wrong on all points,'' he said in a public statement in response to a summary of the problems. ``Bogus. ... Bogus. ... Bogus. ... Bogus.'' He continued by giving an example of how an incompetent attacker might fail to destroy a file.
Several people pointed out his mistake, but he continued to deny the problem. ``In my opinion, no-one has brought forward a vulnerability worth mentioning,'' he said in a bugtraq message titled ``Claimed Postfix Vulnerabilities.''I sent a detailed description of the vulnerability to bugtraq.
The Postfix author finally admitted that the attack would destroy mail. However, he didn't post a security alert on the Postfix web pages. Instead he added a brief note to the middle of the ``Postfix Errata'' page:
A local user can hard link a maildrop queue file to another
directory within the same file system, causing the mail to not be
delivered. Workaround: chmod 1733 /var/spool/postfix/maildrop, and
edit /etc/postfix/postfix-script, replacing 1777 by 1733.
When I saw this, I posted a note to comp.security.unix, explaining that this ``workaround'' simply didn't work. Any user could still anonymously destroy messages.The Postfix author followed up, using the subject line of ``DAN BERNSTEIN'S CLAIM'' without admitting that my claims were correct, summarizing the problems as ``local users [can] play games with hard links'' without mentioning that these games
-
Shameful behavior from Posfix or qmail authorBefore praising postfix's code again, you might want to read this.
First, compare the way each author handled security disclosures.
Found nothing shameful? Did you see this about Postfix? http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
Next, compare the number of false public statements made by each author.
Found nothing? Did you see this about Postfix's author? http://cr.yp.to/qmail/venema.html
And finally, compare the number of security flaws and their severity in Postfix compared to qmail.
Ultimately, do you support or condone the behavior documented at http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
-- begin quote http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html --
IBM released Postfix with massive hype in mid-December 1998. ``IBM software to shield email from hackers,''
blared the Reuters headline. ``This will make IBM's and everyone's Internet activities more secure,'' IBM's network security research manager said in a prepared statement.A few days later I glanced at the Postfix security documentation. ``No Postfix program is set-uid,'' the Postfix author wrote. ``Introducing the concept was the biggest mistake made in UNIX history. Set-uid (and its weaker cousin, set-gid)
causes more trouble than it is worth.''This set off alarm bells in my head. ``Does postfix really use a world-writable directory
for people to drop off mail?'' I wrote in a 19981217 email message to another security expert.
``Is there anything that stops a user from making a hard link to another user's message, preventing postfix from delivering the message?''In fact, when Postfix saw an extra hard link, not only would it fail to deliver the message, but it would actively remove the hard link, Any local attacker could trivially exploit this to anonymously destroy other users' incoming or outgoing messages. There was no way for the system administrator to find the culprit, and no way to recover the messages.
The Postfix author's reaction to my first public comments was outright denial.
``Bernstein is wrong on all points,'' he said in a public statement in response to a summary of the problems. ``Bogus. ... Bogus. ... Bogus. ... Bogus.'' He continued by giving an example of how an incompetent attacker might fail to destroy a file.
Several people pointed out his mistake, but he continued to deny the problem. ``In my opinion, no-one has brought forward a vulnerability worth mentioning,'' he said in a bugtraq message titled ``Claimed Postfix Vulnerabilities.''I sent a detailed description of the vulnerability to bugtraq.
The Postfix author finally admitted that the attack would destroy mail. However, he didn't post a security alert on the Postfix web pages. Instead he added a brief note to the middle of the ``Postfix Errata'' page:
A local user can hard link a maildrop queue file to another
directory within the same file system, causing the mail to not be
delivered. Workaround: chmod 1733 /var/spool/postfix/maildrop, and
edit /etc/postfix/postfix-script, replacing 1777 by 1733.
When I saw this, I posted a note to comp.security.unix, explaining that this ``workaround'' simply didn't work. Any user could still anonymously destroy messages.The Postfix author followed up, using the subject line of ``DAN BERNSTEIN'S CLAIM'' without admitting that my claims were correct, summarizing the problems as ``local users [can] play games with hard links'' without mentioning that these games
-
Daniel Bernstein's Cryptography Course
Back in the day, I attended the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC); Daniel Bernstein is a member of their MSCS department.
In 1995 (IIRC), Bernstein taught a course on cryptography in which a friend of mine had enrolled. Naturally the government (I forget which agency specifically) flipped out and tried to shut him down. I believe this led to Bernstein's lawsuit against the Federal Government. Anyway, students in his class were forbidden from speaking to others about material covered in the course, were forbidden from showing their notebooks to others and also had their notebooks confiscated (okay, turned in) at the end of the semester. I believe the students also underwent background checks prior to their enrollment in the class, but I could be mistaken about that.
I was more than a little surprised about all of the commotion. I mean, this is the United States; aren't we supposed to have academic freedom? I suppose the big concern was that foreign nationals would be taught cryptography, but again, the Constitution guarantees those freedoms.
More information about all of this is available at Berstein's website, linked to above.
-
Re:sendmail vs postfix
I couldn't find any "critical security flaws" for postfix. I did, however, find this: http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html
I think today postfix works around this as it encodes the inode in which the mail is stored in the filename of the mail itself. If you link to it the inode does not fit and postfix detects the attack. -
Re:sendmail vs postfix
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/17192
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/8641
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/8649
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/6991
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/6548
etc...
I couldn't find any "critical security flaws" for postfix. I did, however, find this: http://cr.yp.to/maildisasters/postfix.html -
Re:Could be good news for BSD projects
qmail is way more than non-GPL. It is not free software at all. Not even close.
-
Re:Hrm.Not sure but would something like
dig axfr @yournameserver.com yourdomain.com
expose the subdomains, unless blocked by an allow-transfer directive in named.conf? ("From a snoop's perspective, the difference between AXFR and normal queries is that normal queries force the snoop to guess the relevant domain names, while AXFR reveals the domain names for free.")
dig axfr @ns2.gkg.net gkg.net
dig axfr @ns2.bfccomputing.com bfcomputing.com -
Re:Multics
The reason is that programmers cannot reliably write long running process code. Programs crashed all the time in Multics. Something Multics wasn't very good at handling back in the 1960s. There was some research done and it was observed that programmers could write code for short lived processes fairly well but not long lived.
So, one lessoned learn from from the failure Multics is that programmers do not write reliable, long running code.
This is one of the reasons I love daemontools by DJB. I run tcpserver to launch sshd even, so that SSHD isn't running all the time -- it gets executed if a connection comes in and not before. tcpserver is nice and small and easy to audit for long-running bugs.
Using 'launcher' programs to load the parts of a system that are needed when they're needed would make many systems more reliable, IMHO, not just network servers. -
Re:Weakness of DNS
By the way, remember that Paul Vixie's BIND is just one implementation and it's considered to be flawed by some wise people:
http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/blurb/unbind.html
Just because he is wise doesn't mean he doesn't have an agenda of his own (he does).
I get fairly pissed at DJB when he says bind is flawed, and parades his djbdns in front of us, without mentioning that djbdns only implements a tiny part of what bind does. Well, guess what ? dnsdns is not an option for 90% of the DNS servers (at least). His solution for complex problems that are prone to have security implications is just not implementing them. Well, doh!
And yes, Paul Vixie is know for providing bugging, security flawed software. I particually remember some serious issues with his crond daemon. I just don't think DJB is a good judge regarding any software he providing an "alternative". -
Re:moving hosts blows
tinydns has a nice option to make one address expire at a specific time and another take its place (or just start serving a record at a specific time, or have a record stop working at a specific time). When it gets close to the expiry time, the existing record's TTL is reduced accordingly to prevent problems as well -- its quite a nice feature really for IP changes.
-
Weakness of DNS
I'd rather say that DNS is damned weak. It's probably the weakest point in the Internet infrastructure as a whole, and that's a lot to say. DNS was chosen by SANS Institute as one of the top 20 Internet vulnerabilities in 2006:
http://www.sans.org/top20/
Last time there was a major DNS failure? The DNS system relies on 13 servers. In 2002 nine of them went down due to a DDoS attack, the whole Internet was very slow or unreachable for an hour. This year in February almost three of the servers crashed due to another DDoS, which moved the Department of Defense to say that next time they will counterattack and even bomb the source of the DDoS, so guess if it was important.
By the way, remember that Paul Vixie's BIND is just one implementation and it's considered to be flawed by some wise people:
http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/blurb/unbind.html -
Re:From TFA: free pr0n!
The IPv4 addresses are a subset of the IPv6 space -- you can get to all of the IPv4 systems from an IPv6 network.
No! And that's the really BIG problem with moving over to IPv6. You should read up D.J. Bernstein's run-down of the miserable state of matters at http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html