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I urge slashdotters to read some european history

If it doesn't involve nonsense like orcs, mithril armor and little twerps playing 'witch' games, then no Slashdotter will read it.

I suggest Keegan's "The First World War" to dispell any Merikin foolishness about how cowardly the French are in wars. The US showed up in the Great War well after the shit went down. Also, according to cca 1941 GOP policy, WWII was "Roosevelt's War." Godless unpatriotic queers!

Don't hate people for being evangelical Christians. Their motivation is to get as many people to heaven as possible.

Hate them? I love them. They give me something to do over coffee on a boring day.

And I've lost count of how many I've converted to Buddhism (which I don't practice myself) - Did you know that most strongly religious people don't realize that most religions repeat the same tired themes over and over and over, and if you can point them to something "close enough" that entirely predates what they believe, it confuses them? ;-)

Boy, would Uncle Screwtape feel proud of me (if he didn't patiently wait for me to fail so he can consume my soul slowly and painfully).


But the worst are evangelical atheists. The only motivation there is for you to be godless just like them so you won't be happier than they are.

Joking aside, I think you have committed the logic error called bifurcation, or the "false dilemma" - You propose that, if they don't want to "save" you so you can go to heaven, they must want to deprive you of that reward. In this case, it counts as a "false" dilemma because they do not believe such a reward exists, therefore they do not intend to "deprive" you of it.

Atheists (who I consider almost as amusingly wrong as anyone claiming to know the "one true" religion) believe, in the same way a Christian believes (ie irrationally, that no god exists. Therefore, they only want to free people from the oppressive shackles of religion. Any resources you devote to a nonexistant afterlife must, in their opinion, count as purely wasted. Any restrained behavior for reasons outside the law (or basic health and safety) deprives you of pleasure for no good reason. Any praying for cures or money or peace or whatever just tries to put off the inevitable outcome of having to deal with your problems yourself, since no divine intervention will come.

For an analogy, if you met someone who, for every dollar they get, they throw a dime straight up into the air so the Great BunnyRabbit will bring them good luck, would you consider that a valid belief, or nonsense that, assuming said person doesn't have a screw loose, you would do them a favor by showing them the error of their ways? (For amusement, now go back and change "Great BunnyRabbit" to "Jesus" or "Jehovah", and look up the idea of the tithe).


So, as hard as it may seem to accept this, the evangelical atheists have just as noble a goal as the evangelical Christians (or any group that hypes itself to an absurd extreme). If, of course, you consider it "noble" to stubbornly considering oneself as absolutely, unyieldingly correct, and all others need to learn "the truth".

But the worst are evangelical atheists. The only motivation there is for you to be godless just like them so you won't be happier than they are.

Well, there are certainly other motivations. For example, I would prefer not to be burned at the stake for my atheism, as many atheists and non-conforming theists have in the past. Therefore, the fewer religious people the better, for me. Also, being an atheist means I'm free of original sin, which always seemed to be a real downer, so I'm probably happier than most Christians too.

But the worst are evangelical atheists. The only motivation there is for you to be godless just like them so you won't be happier than they are.

As an atheist, I think I can say that the ones that "evangelize" are just sick of having Christianity stuffed down their throats (at least here in America).

Just a quick aside here...

Don't hate people for being evangelical Christians. Their motivation is to get as many people to heaven as possible. Most other religions can't claim this. How many Muslims have asked you if you've been saved, and if you'd like to be?

But the worst are evangelical atheists. The only motivation there is for you to be godless just like them so you won't be happier than they are.

Interesting. In the godless United Kingdom, Blockbuster have no problem with stocking a fairly large range of soft porn movies...

Apple Computer is the maker of the popular Macintosh line of computers. The real operating system hiding under the newest version of the Macintosh operating system (MacOS X) is called... Darwin! That's right, new Macs are based on Darwinism! While they currently don't advertise this fact to consumers, it is well known among the computer elite, who are mostly Atheists and Pagans. Furthermore, the Darwin OS is released under an "Open Source" license, which is just another name for Communism. They try to hide all of this under a facade of shiny, "lickable" buttons, but the truth has finally come out: Apple Computers promote Godless Darwinism and Communism.

But is this really such a shock? Lets look for a moment at Apple Computers. Founded by long haired hippies, this company has consistently supported 60's counter-cultural "values". But there are even darker undertones to this company than most are aware of. Consider the name of the company and its logo: an apple with a bite taken out of it. This is clearly a reference to the Fall, when Adam and Eve were tempted with an apple by the serpent. It is now Apple Computers offering us temptation, thereby aligning themselves with the forces of darkness.

This company is well known for its cult-like following. It isn't much of a stretch to say that it is a cult. Consider co-founder and leader Steve Jobs' constant exhortation through advertising (i.e. mind control) that its followers should "think different". We have to ask ourselves: "think different than whom or what?" The disturbing answer is that they want us to think different than our Christian upbringing, to reject all the values that we have been taught and to heed not the message of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Given the now obvious anti-Christian and cultish nature of Apple Computers, is it any wonder that they have decided to base their newest operating system on Darwinism? This just reaffirms the position that Darwinism is an inherently anti-Christian philosophy spread through propaganda and subliminal trickery, not a science as its brainwashed followers would have us believe.

It's too bad I was beaten to the punch. That'll teach me to wander off won't it?

Muslims don't hate the US because we're Godless, polls show that between 90% and 95% of Americans believe in some kind of voice from the void. (I don't happen to be one of them).

Muslims hate the west because their culture has stagnated by their own choosing for half a millenia. Their priests tell them they are the good, the faithful, the chosen, and yet they are the poor, the weak, and the oppressed. How can this be? For certain God would bestow His multitude of blessings on the people who are most loved before Him, and keep who His laws and wishes foremost in their hearts. But yet the fact remains. The west, and white people must be evil. They are so corrupt and decadent that they must have made an aggrement with satan to steal these gift which are rightfully theirs.

Of course the truth is comical. They're the most corrupt, the laziest, the most decadent. They care nothing or little for the fellows, and are unable to cooperated well enough to form an effective government let alone lift themselves up from their feudal, culture of vengance, and alliance. They seek not to make something of lasting worth in the world (the secret hope of everyone I know), but to be given which they presume to deserve.

We're it my choice, we'd pass out iodine pills and give them the Last Crusade which they seem so desperate to fight. We should fight it from afar in the comfort of air-conditioned control rooms. After all, when it's a war of annihilation, as per their request, what's the point of being there? Besides, they deserve to be treated seiously, not like miscreant children, but as the foe bent on destroying all those things we hold dear. Far from deserving to be coddled, they should be able to witness the full force of our engineering prowess. The very least we could do, is show them, close up, what and who they are really up against. Anything less is mocking and needlessly cruel.

" Considering some of them said that we deserved September 11th because I didn't go to their church?"

Who exactly said this? Please provide a name, the exact quote, and a RELIABLE link as a source.

"His sentiment is all too accurate."

Considering the fact that radical Muslims hate the US in part because they see us as Godless, how is his sentiment accurate?

That's a pretty thing to think. Let's just try to wean our municipalities off of charging crazy fines for speeding tickets.

Not gonna happen, and anybody who suggests it is going to be labeled as a Godless communist baby-murdering lawbreaker.

Why don't you give up on karma whoring demoRATic communist, George Bush is evil posts and go to a Peta protest or something you godless tree hugging communist hippy bastard.

http://www.exmormon.org/whylft149.htm

INSTITUTE DIRECTOR RESIGNS FROM THE CHURCH

"I was honest in a gentle way with institute students about the church's history and doctrine. CES and PH leaders refused to acknowledge that superior resources on church history and doctrine are available from books, journals, and websites labeled by church leaders as "anti." And that most of the independent sources are not anti at all. They are objective."

I need to admit up right away that I'm a little bitter. I feel lied to and used. The church had every opportunity to be truthful from the time my wife and I took the discussions to the time we left.

Out of the Mormon Church

My wife and I left the LDS Church on August 7th, 2002, the same day that I resigned as Institute Director of the Pullman Washington Institute of Religion, and the LDS Church Education System (CES). I had worked full-time for CES for 27 years. I'm also a former bishop, high councilman, stake young men's president, high priest's group leader, ward mission leader, ward young men's president, and more. I wasn't a casual Mormon who lived on the fringes.

I had been seriously looking for another job for some time due to harassment from Priesthood (PH) leaders and CES administrators. I couldn't take it anymore. They were not crazy about my teaching style. I was honest in a gentle way with institute students about the church's history and doctrine. I wasn't impressed with their denial and dishonesty. CES and PH leaders refused to acknowledge that superior resources on church history and doctrine are available from books, journals, and websites labeled by church leaders as "anti." And that most of the independent sources are not anti at all. They are objective.

I felt compelled to teach the truth about the church's drastic revision of history and doctrine. It was an ethical bind: by remaining loyal and teaching the LDS viewpoint about history and doctrine, I was being dishonest but valuable to the church. However, by being honest with the students I was branded as disloyal and I could be fired. I found out that it is impossible to change the system from the inside. The humility that the church encourages members to adopt--to remain teachable--is not present in church leaders when they feel it necessary to protect the church's image.

As one general authority told church educators, "Some things that are true are not very useful;" (Boyd K. Packer to a Church Educational System Symposium at BYU in 1981). It was a commandment to professionals to hide uncomfortable truths about Mormon history and doctrine from students instead of teaching it accurately. I gradually learned that loyalty is and always has been more important to church leaders than honesty. Mormons from the beginning have revised their history to create a sympathetic image of a people who have been persecuted and driven by ruthless, godless, hypocritical mobs for no good reason. It isn't true. It's also a myth that Mormon prophets and apostles have always been godlike, infallible, and exemplary representatives of God. Much of the time they have, but many times they have broken the commandments they are supposed to model. Nevertheless I felt tremendous pressure to teach what CES ordered while trying to find another job. I gradually lost respect for the church leaders because in annual temple recommend interviews (interviews to determine one's worthiness to enter temples) they demanded that I be honest. Yet they wanted me to be dishonest with my students. When I tried to be honest they called it undermining students' testimonies or undermining the authority of the prophets of God. The vast majority of students found the honest approach in my classes refreshing. The pressure from leaders resulted in weekly migraine headaches requiring a prescription to manage and regular prescriptions of acid reflux medication to prevent ulcers.

The Second to the Last Straw--Bishop L

On August 4th, 2002 our bishop called my wife and I into his office for an int

Dear lord, at first I thought this was just funny but the guy that originally wrote this actually seems to believe it.

No matter, I am a Godless Communistic Darwinist. Must be why I bought an Apple.

Apple Computer is the maker of the popular Macintosh line of computers. The real operating system hiding under the newest version of the Macintosh operating system (MacOS X) is called... Darwin! That's right, new Macs are based on Darwinism! While they currently don't advertise this fact to consumers, it is well known among the computer elite, who are mostly Atheists and Pagans. Furthermore, the Darwin OS is released under an "Open Source" license, which is just another name for Communism. They try to hide all of this under a facade of shiny, "lickable" buttons, but the truth has finally come out: Apple Computers promote Godless Darwinism and Communism.

But is this really such a shock? Lets look for a moment at Apple Computers. Founded by long haired hippies, this company has consistently supported 60's counter-cultural "values". But there are even darker undertones to this company than most are aware of. Consider the name of the company and its logo: an apple with a bite taken out of it. This is clearly a reference to the Fall, when Adam and Eve were tempted with an apple by the serpent. It is now Apple Computers offering us temptation, thereby aligning themselves with the forces of darkness.

This company is well known for its cult-like following. It isn't much of a stretch to say that it is a cult. Consider co-founder and leader Steve Jobs' constant exhortation through advertising (i.e. mind control) that its followers should "think different". We have to ask ourselves: "think different than whom or what?" The disturbing answer is that they want us to think different than our Christian upbringing, to reject all the values that we have been taught and to heed not the message of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Given the now obvious anti-Christian and cultish nature of Apple Computers, is it any wonder that they have decided to base their newest operating system on Darwinism? This just reaffirms the position that Darwinism is an inherently anti-Christian philosophy spread through propaganda and subliminal trickery, not a science as its brainwashed followers would have us believe.

" And when did having faith in something become the requirement for being a decent person living a respectable life?"

About 4 years ago, when Bush took office - you Godless Commie Queer. [/satire]

(Don't take offense, t'was a joke!)

I thank you for the support however, I do wish to point out (whilst hoping to avoid a futile debate on religion) that all major faiths subscribe to a core set of morals and values and that is what the founders of this country set out to behold. In order to remain true to the impartiality they valued so much, they set their personal religious beliefs aside so that they could forge a universal document that would not oppress any group of people.

I don't want to offend you for your faith, and if I have, I am deeply regretful. However, I personally am not Christian and feel that in spite of that, I still hold good and true values about how we should treat one another. I feel my values are just as righteous and good as yours or anyone elses' and I see the conflict not as "godless vs. faithful" but more of "ethical vs. non-ethical." I feel that the ethicality of a decision or action hinges on the fulcrum of reason and the common good. We as people must act in a way that does not harm others and in a manner that follows unbiased and clear reasoning. I feel that it is wrong to simply take one side of an issue without observing all of the facts and deciding on one's own accord.

I again thank you for your support, however I do wish to point out that my use of the word "ungodly" was not to be confused with "unGodly." Just because someone does not subscribe to the Christian faith does not make them wrong or invalid, it is when one acts in a manner that is selfish, harms others, and results in no positive outcome that they are unjust and must be stopped.

I hope I have not offended you or anyone else. I assure you, this was not my intent. I merely wanted to post my point of view in a (hopefully) constructive manner so that we may all learn from one another.

devise. it would reek of corepirate nazi censorship to US, if it worked at all.

coming soon to/already on, yOUR desktop/network?:

Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, comment posting has temporarily (permanently, if we could figure out how to do it) been disabled. If it's you, consider this a chance to sit in the timeout corner. If it's someone else, this is a chance to hunt them down. If you think this is unfair, we don't care.

alert: you've been lax in yOUR payper liesense 'upgrades', you're out.

alert: there's a rumour that you've been badmouthing/lowrating the corepirate nazis, & the naykid furor of the felonious kingdumb, you're out.

alert: looks like yOUR kids have been listening to music again, you're out.

alert: although you appear to be browsing regularly, you've failed to make a purchase recently, you're out.

consider this a chance to stare at your monitor screen, & plan how you can become .compliant. if you think that you are already compliant, & it's somebody else, consider this a chance to rat them out, to gain re-admission to the onLIEn wwwhirled again, (c SourceForgerIE(tm) all rights reserved, you have none).

etc... lookout bullow. these foulcurrs haven't a clue yet, as to what J. Public can do, once he's peaced off. they live in a tiny wwworld, consisting of only their owned greed/fear based goals. they should get ready to see the light.

we're building a vessel that floats on almost any suBStance.

as to the newclear power/planet/population rescue initiative:

it's all free (as in survival), & available immediately to you/all of US.

as you can maybe already see, yOUR survival/success is not the least bit dependent on the gadgets/combinations of the greed/fear based corepirate nazis, & their phonIE ?pr? ?firm? buyassed /.puppets.

consult with/trust in yOUR creator. more breathing. vote with yOUR wallet (somtimes that means not buying anything, a notion previously unmentioned buy the greed/fear/war mongers). seek others of non-aggressive/positive behaviours/intentions. stop wasting anything/being frivolous. that's the spirit.

investigate the newclear power plan. J. Public et AL has yet to become involved in open/honest 'net communications/commerce in a meaningful way. that's mostly due to the MiSinformation suppLIEd buy phonIE ?pr? ?firm?/stock markup FraUD execrable, etc...

truth is, there's no better/more affordable/effective way that we know of, for J. to reach other J.'s &/or their respective markets.

the overbullowned greed/fear based phonIE marketeers are self eliminating by their owned greed/fear/ego based evile MiSintentions. they must deny the existence of the power that is dissolving their ability to continue their self-centered evile behaviours.

as the lights continue to come up, you'll see what we mean. meanwhile, there are plenty of challenges, not the least of which is the planet/population rescue (from the corepirate nazi/walking dead contingent) initiative.

EVERYTHING is going to change, despite the lameNT of the evile wons. you can bet your .asp on that. when the lights come up, there'll be no going back, & no where to hide.

we weren't planted here to facilitate/perpetuate the excesses of a handful of Godless felons. you already know that? yOUR ONLY purpose here is to help one another. any other pretense is totally false.

pay attention (to yOUR environment, for example). that's quite affordable, & leads to insights on preserving life as it should/could/will be again. everything's ALL about yOUR motives.

that old tune title (hope we don't get 'busted' for using it) "make the world go away", takes on new/varied meaning in these times.

the prevalent notion that 'everything will be taken care of' without yOUR knowledge/participation is insidiously misleading.

in our estimation, the biggest 't

YOU'RE missing the point.

The libraries are selling the books rather than putting them on the shelves!

You know why? There's no SPACE on the shelves. Many, many public libraries are filled almost to overflowing. To add a new book to the collection, you often have to take an old book out of the collection. If that means sacrificing 'DOS 5.0 for Dummies' or the most dog-eared of the 20 copies of Shakespeare's Hamlet, so be it.

Have your ever noticed that the CDs and videos in the library are never the latest albums and movies?

I have. Would you like to know why that is?
1. Since people tend to BUY the latest CDs and videos themselves, there's less demand for the library to carry them.
2. A library's mission is to store materials that are PERPETUALLY useful, not those which are ephemerally popular. Would anyone check out Britney's latest CD five years from now if they put it in the collection today? It usually takes time before the lasting utility of a publication is fully understandable; thus the decision making process when expanding a library's collection needs to take time.
3. Something else that takes time is the very process of purchasing, cataloging, and making media loan-ready. Order a book from the distributor today, it may not get here until next week, and it'll take another day for library staff to look up the Dewey number, enter the info into the online card catalog, paste a barcode and theft-prevention strip in, and everything else that needs to be done before the book is ready to check out -- and that's only if they don't already have a backlog of other new materials that need to be processed. THIS is why it costs a library $30 to carry a book you can get at Waldenbooks for $9.50.

For example, there are many books I would donate if I knew I could check them out later.

It's very generous of you to volunteer to use the library as overflow for your own limited storage space. But is anyone else in your area going to find your books useful? If not, why should the library waste any of their own storage space on it?

Somehow the people who want to corrupt the system, apparently publishers, have gotten control over the libraries.

Do you realize how psychotic that sounds? Hey, here's a thought, maybe it's not publishers that have infiltrated our libraries -- maybe it's GODLESS COMMUNISTS! Better organize a House committee and go on a witch hunt.

Librarians are some of the most vocal defenders of your intellectual freedoms that you'll ever find, and on behalf of them I'm hurt that you would make such a wild accusation as to suggest they're colluding against us.

(Oh, and as background I worked at my hometown's public library for three years, so I do at least have a basic understanding of how running a library actually works.)

Five cuckoos.

From the original Slashdot article:

I was worried about some of his evaluation criteria (see the introduction available on-line as a sample chapter), because he includes several points that strike me as fairly dicey: "Who proposed the idea?"; "How attached is the proposer to the idea?" and "Does the proposer have an agenda?" These all relate to judging the person rather than the idea itself.

Science is a human endeavor. It's conducted by humans. Science is a process, however, and that process is defined in such a way that it doesn't matter which humans conduct it.

Perhaps with homeopathy and other forms of medical quackery coming as a close second, "creation" "science" is the canonical example of why "Does the proposer have an agenda" and "How attached is the proposer to the idea" are important questions you have to ask yourself when evaluating a theory.

The scientific method is independent of humanity. Any sentient being is capable of doing science. But to the best of our knowledge, the only sentient beings that are performing science are humans. We know from observation that humans are fallible. Humans let their emotions get in the way of the facts. When a human is very attached to a theory, and even more so when a human has an agenda that can be advanced by promulgation of that theory, it's not guaranteed, but it's highly more probable, that the human will depart from the scientific method in an effort to cling to a theory that's been repudiated.

One of many links: A Bullshit Detection Guide

Creation "science" fails on: 1A: Manipulative buzzwords - "Intelligent"? "Design"?
1C: Audience the BS appeals to: Self-explanatory here :)
1E: Underdog appeal: "Just the little ol' Christians fighting the hordes of Godless Atheistic Communistic Scientists that Run the Schools"
1F: Requires A Negative View of Authority: As above. Evolution is part of the Grand Conspiracy to Keep The Christians Down.
2B-1: A small group of "experts" pretending to own the field
2B-2: Experts beyond their field of expertise.
2B-3: False claims of objectivity. It used to be called Creation Science, then it got renamed to Intelligent Design. Wonder what it'll be called next week when the scam is exposed?
2E: Blizzard of Numbers - the Creation "scientist" to whom I'm responding is the case in point: "26 variables? 66 variables? Does he really know enough about physics, cosmology, and biology to be sure it's not 27, or 65? Does anyone?!?!

Intelligent Design: Pegs the BS Detector. Five cuckoos.

ID is a nice belief system if you're already a creationist who accepts on faith that the Universe was created by the God of Genesis (optional: 6,000 years ago in a week), but it's not science.

For the record, I'm not bashing Christians here. Frankly, I see zero inconsistency between Genesis and our presently-understood notions of cosmology. Take a guy from 4000 BC and show him a PBS documentary on current theories of cosmology, and ask him to write what he saw. You're likely to get something like "Umm, I saw this vision with moving pictures about how the universe came to be. So, like, first there was nothin'. No time, no space, zilch. Then Something Happened, a couple of branes smacked into each other and nobody knows quite what that means yet. But that was the start of our universe. Then they said something about electromagnetic force breaking symmetry with the weak force, which I couldn't understand, and there was light, which I could understand. Then it cooled enough that the mean free path of a photon got pretty long, and I didn't know what that meant, but that was when it b

built by carefully selected and screened teams of programmers working to build proprietary, secure software." -Darl McBride (on koolaid) c'mon, M$, you're the champion of the proprietary, free-enterprise system--show us that your 'carefully selected and screened programmers' really ARE better than the godless, communist 'numerous unrelated and unknown software developers' ...