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Linking to Ken Sabet basically discredits you in any Marijuana related discussion. Things are fine here, please fuck off and stop pointing fingers at my state.

Sabet is a U.S. citizen and a student at the University of Georgia but the iPad was to be a gift for a cousin living in Iran.

They were planning on sending it OUT OF THE COUNTRY!!!

Sabet says she later called Apple's corporate customer relations, where an employee reportedly apologized and told her she could buy an iPad online.

Isn't that nice. She gets "an apology" from some guy on the phone. Not from the employee who refused to sell to her, or anyone involved at that store. And then she's told "Well, just buy it online, what's the big deal?"

The clerk didn't know, and even if he did the state department does not enforce embargo law for local sales as it is CLEARLY said in the text:

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Sabet told WSBTV that the iPad was intended as a gift to her cousin in Iran, but said she didn't mention that to the clerk.

"It's a slippery slope," he said. "If someone is speaking Arabic are employees going to stop them and say 'are you from Syria?' and deny them service? Or if they're speaking Spanish, are they gonna say are you from Cuba?"

Sabet said when she called Apple’s corporate customer relations an employee apologized told her she could buy an iPad online.

A State Department representative told WSBTV it's illegal to travel with the electronics to Iran without federal permission, but that he was not aware Apple was enforcing the law, reported WSBTV

*******

Apple has no legal obligation to enforce the law, it is going beyond its duty in order to discriminate its clients.

Except that the employee had no idea she was going to give it to anyone in Iran:"Sabet told WSBTV that the iPad was intended as a gift to her cousin in Iran, but said she didn't mention that to the clerk."

Except you are wrong and the whole point was the clerk who was Iranian as well heard her say in Iranian while in the store she intended to send it to Iran, not to mention she admitted on the news she intended to break US law.

Bingo.... now that she has admitted to the news she could be in the slammer before night fall.
Both her and her Uncle have colluded in a conspiracy to break the law.

She is cute but I know from numerous James Bond movies that not all cute girls
are good girls. Some are downright bad ass spies and assassins. Thank you
Ian for the education.

"Sabet says she later called Apple's corporate customer relations, where an employee reportedly apologized and told her she could buy an iPad online."

Obviously we do not know exactly what she said when she called customer relations. Did she say "he refused to sell me an iPad because I am Farsi"? In that case I would expect that they apologize, that this shouldn't have happened, and if she wants an iPad but doesn't want to go to the same store (which would be understandably), she could buy on online. If she said "I want to buy an iPad to send to my cousin in Iran and they refused to sell it", then she would have got a different answer.

Correct. I conflated two different reports of customers being turned away. There was a separate case involving an Iranian on a student visa that was mentioned in the articles, and I apparently confused the two. That was an error on my part.

That said, the article also report:

"When we said 'Farsi, I'm from Iran,' he said, 'I just can't sell this to you. Our countries have bad relations,'" Sabet said.

So it's reasonable to believe that she may also be an Iranian citizen in addition to an American since she said she's from Iran. Even if she isn't, for purposes of exports to an embargoed country, it wouldn't matter. Worst case scenario, I'm outright incorrect (which is quite likely), but it still doesn't change anything if she was planning to sending it or bringing it into Iran.

Right or wrong, on second reading, your comments were understandable and stemmed from a reasonable reading of a poorly written TFA.

However, I disagree with your conclusion. I do not believe that the sales person should have taken that tack. If the salesperson was concerned about the legality of the sale, he should have verbally confirmed (in English) with at least one witness present, whether or not the customer wanted to export the device to Iran.

If she was dumb enough to say yes, then he can take appropriate action. If she said "no" and he didn't believe her, he can still contact the authorities. Last time I checked, it's not a retail store employee's role to enforce ITAR regulations.

At this point, it's just his word against hers as to what was actually said (in Farsi) in front of him.

Even though she admitted later that she wanted it for a cousin in Iran, there's no evidence that he verified that before refusing the sale.

All that said, as I mentioned previously, the Apple Store (or any other private business) can refuse to do business with anyone for any reason. However, especially since two different incidents happened recently, it smacks of discrimination which is bad PR for Apple. Which is why (IMHO) the Apple apologists are getting their knickers in a twist over "following the law."

I think we both could do with some better reading comprehension. In your case, you apparently missed this in the articles (emphasis mine):

"When we said 'Farsi, I'm from Iran,' he said, 'I just can't sell this to you. Our countries have bad relations,'" Sabet said.

The person was from Iran according to their own quote in the article, so I did get that correct, though that does not, of course, preclude them from also being an American citizen, so it is possible that we're both correct about their citizenship. Even if they're not an Iranian citizen, that doesn't change #3 from what I said earlier, and that would apply to everyone, regardless of citizenship.

That said, you weren't alone in missing details, since I apparently conflated two separate reports mentioned in the articles regarding customers being turned away. In the second case, the person had an Iranian citizen with them on a student visa, which I mixed up with the first case in my previous comment. So for that, I do apologize.

Not to worry. Perhaps I missed the part about the customer saying something about exporting the device within earshot of the sales person. If so, I apologize. Then again, the truth is that in the end, a private business can refuse to sell to anyone - for any reason. However, if it's a poor reason, bad press may result.

Are you suggesting that it should be that way? I think there is a good case to be made that law enforcement should be left to the people our society employs in that capacity. I skimmed your homepage and gather that's a consistent stand for you to take.

If that's all you were trying to say, then it doesn't add much to the conversation since it has been said before and many times and in many ways. Most of the posters had more passion or more information to add to the discussion. In most of your 31 posts in fact, you had more to add.

I'd hope you've read enough of the comments here to realize there is at least a common belief that selling something comes with an obligation to refuse sales when you have knowledge the buyer intends to break the law. I'm going to assume that with 31 posts, you know that, so your stance is that the US policy is wrong or that Apple is not following it correctly.

For background, lets take a couple quotes from the featured articles:

"[A store clerk heard them talking and asked what language they were speaking] When we said 'Farsi, I'm from Iran,' he said, 'I just can't sell this to you. Our countries have bad relations,'" Sabet said. The employee showed them Apple's corporate policy on export sales...

and then this:

A representative for the U.S. State Department told Viteri [the journalist writing the story] it is illegal to travel to Iran with laptops or satellite cellphones without U.S. authorization.

In a related but not featured article, we see:

State Department representative told WSBTV it's illegal to travel with the electronics to Iran without federal permission

Consider that the sales clerk had reason to believe from the statement of the buyer that the buyer was a citizen of Iran. The sales clerk could reasonably assume that somebody that said they were from Iran would take the purchase with them back to Iran when they returned to where they said they were from. The fact that the buyer intended to do something that was illegal with it that didn't match the incorrect assumption of the seller just clouds the issue.

I think the best approach by Apple would be to modify their policy to include a list of questions to be asked if they were refusing a sale, but I think you've taken this as a little more personal than it was intended. The clerk was following US policy based on what he understood from what the buyer told him.

Correct. I conflated two different reports of customers being turned away. There was a separate case involving an Iranian on a student visa that was mentioned in the articles, and I apparently confused the two. That was an error on my part.

That said, the article also report:

"When we said 'Farsi, I'm from Iran,' he said, 'I just can't sell this to you. Our countries have bad relations,'" Sabet said.

So it's reasonable to believe that she may also be an Iranian citizen in addition to an American since she said she's from Iran. Even if she isn't, for purposes of exports to an embargoed country, it wouldn't matter. Worst case scenario, I'm outright incorrect (which is quite likely), but it still doesn't change anything if she was planning to sending it or bringing it into Iran.

I think we both could do with some better reading comprehension. In your case, you apparently missed this in the articles (emphasis mine):

"When we said 'Farsi, I'm from Iran,' he said, 'I just can't sell this to you. Our countries have bad relations,'" Sabet said.

The person was from Iran according to their own quote in the article, so I did get that correct, though that does not, of course, preclude them from also being an American citizen, so it is possible that we're both correct about their citizenship. Even if they're not an Iranian citizen, that doesn't change #3 from what I said earlier, and that would apply to everyone, regardless of citizenship.

That said, you weren't alone in missing details, since I apparently conflated two separate reports mentioned in the articles regarding customers being turned away. In the second case, the person had an Iranian citizen with them on a student visa, which I mixed up with the first case in my previous comment. So for that, I do apologize.

2) The person doesn't just have "cultural links to said country", they're a citizen of that country and are studying in America on a visa.

True

false. From TFA:

Sabet is a U.S. citizen and a student at the University of Georgia

Refusing to sell a piece of electronics to an American Citizen because they are of Iranian extraction

Comprehension failure. There was no "might". Read the article.

Blowing off the mods I've made on this thread -- due to Double comprehension failure. FTFY above. See quote from TFA below. The refused buyer said she was "from Iran" in Farsi. She did not say that she was going to ship the device to Iran. The moron at the Apple store decided not to sell to someone who said they were from Iran. This is not illegal, just prejudiced and stupid -- given that Ms. Sabet is an American citizen who lives in the US. It means that the Apple store employee is a jerk -- again, not illegal -- but if you take your own advice and read the quoted text (in the TFA) of Apple's export policy, the employee did not follow corporate policy. As such, he is not only a jerk, but a crappy employee.

All that said, no one (at least I haven't seen it on this thread) has produced the text of the embargo law that specifically restricts this technology from being *given* to anyone. AFAIK, the sanctions are specific to companies that knowingly *sell* restricted technologies to foreign governments or the agents thereof. I could be wrong on that -- please correct me if I am.

From TFA:

Sabet [the refused buyer] is a U.S. citizen and a student at the University of Georgia but the iPad was to be a gift for a cousin living in Iran. "When we said 'Farsi, I'm from Iran,' he said, 'I just can't sell this to you. Our countries have bad relations,'" Sabet said.

[emphasis mine]

Except that the employee had no idea she was going to give it to anyone in Iran:"Sabet told WSBTV that the iPad was intended as a gift to her cousin in Iran, but said she didn't mention that to the clerk."

Except you are wrong and the whole point was the clerk who was Iranian as well heard her say in Iranian while in the store she intended to send it to Iran, not to mention she admitted on the news she intended to break US law.

Citation needed.

After overhearing customer Sahar Sabet speaking Farsi, an Apple salesperson, who is also of Iranian descent

It is in the first paragraph of the article linked to by the summary. The first link. Basically The saleperson understood Farsi and based on what the customer said decided not to sell her an IPad. The salesperson is not doing interviews because of corporate policy at Apple. So they can't defend themselfs on blogs. I don't know about the other incident you spoke of. Hearsay and rumor isn't the best way to judge people or companies.

Since Apple reportedly apologized and offered that Sabet could buy it online I'm sure you'll support a Federal investigation.

Sabet says she later called Apple's corporate customer relations, where an employee reportedly apologized and told her she could buy an iPad online.

I'm sure you're mad at Apple for that right?

The store employee didn't know she was going to give it to anyone in Iran: "Sabet told WSBTV that the iPad was intended as a gift to her cousin in Iran, but said she didn't mention that to the clerk."

So no excuse on that front.

She intended to break a law that carries a penalty up to 20 years in jail. She is stupid enough to make it public knowledge that she intended to break this law. And you believe what she says?

Try to think about this logically: What reason would Apple have to refuse selling to someone because of their nationality? None. It doesn't make sense. Next, what would you do if you were refused to purchase because of your national origin? You would call some other sales person, or talk to the manager. In what situation would you _not_ do that? You wouldn't if you realised that you said something you shouldn't have said, and if you knew that the sale isn't refused because of your origin, but because you talked about breaking the law, not knowing that you would run into one of the few sales people who would have understood you.

The employee had no idea she was going to give it to anyone in Iran: "Sabet told WSBTV that the iPad was intended as a gift to her cousin in Iran, but said she didn't mention that to the clerk."

Except that the employee had no idea she was going to give it to anyone in Iran:"Sabet told WSBTV that the iPad was intended as a gift to her cousin in Iran, but said she didn't mention that to the clerk."