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DVD CCA Battle Continues Next Week

When Judge Elfving handed down the rejection of the DVD Copy Control Association's temporary restraining order on December 29th, the Open Source community knew that they had won a battle in the war. The preliminary injunction hearing on the DVD Copy Control Association case that was originally scheduled for this Friday has been pushed back to next Tuesday, January 18th, and the Free Software community will be there with bells on.

I recently had the opportunity to speak to Robin Gross, an attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation working on this case.

Slashdot : Come on, we're geeks, not lawyers. What does this hearing mean?

Robin Gross : It's important to note that in preliminary injunction hearings, this is pretty much where the game is played. This hearing is crucial in cases like this. Since we've got all these people in town for the RSA encryption conference, we're really calling upon the technical community to support this case and show up at court to educate the media there. Right now, the media focus is on piracy, and we need to turn that around. These folks are not trying to pirate movies, but rather watch the movies that they've already purchased, and continue research on DVD encryption. We're relying to a large extent on experts like cryptologists and programmers in the Linux community to educate their friends and family about encryption, and turn this around so people understand what the defendants are trying to accomplish.

This case is really important for a couple reasons. First, protecting the first amendment and free speech on the Internet. These defendants are engaging in activities that are completely legal in the US as well as in Norway where the plaintiffs are complaining the original sin occurred. A lot of these people are encryption scientists and computer programmers who are simply trying to learn how to play DVDs on their non-Windows boxes. Another reason is that it's really important that people are allowed to reverse engineer computer software. The law in this country, as well as Norway, allows people to reverse engineer software, letting them try to pick it apart, figure out how it works, and then use that knowledge to innovate and build new technology, products and services, and in this case, extending the DVD industry's market.

In a lot of ways, these people want to be DVD customers. They want to be able to buy DVDs and watch them on the computers they already have. So, their choice is either not buying DVDs, or watching them using this patch.

The EFF has their brief and other documents available at http://www.eff.org/pub/Intellectual_property/DVD/.

There are, of course, at least two sides to every story. This afternoon I spoke to Jeffrey Kessler, an attorney for Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP, the law firm representing the DVD Copy Control Association.

Jeffrey Kessler : I hope that we prevail. That's all I'm going to say at this point.

Since they weren't talking, I decided to pull on the ear of Douglas Winslow, one of the defendants named in the case. Douglas still has the DeCSS code posted on his site, and he is one of the many defendants that cannot appear in court due to distance and time constraints.

Slashdot: So, the preliminary injunction hearing is next Tuesday. Any feelings?

Douglas Winslow : I feel we have a strong case. It'll be interesting to see what kind of precedent is set.

Slashdot: Are you going to party if the defendants are victorious?

Douglas Winslow : I plan to party either way. I'll either end up watching or burning part of my DVD collection to celebrate the outcome of the hearing.

To be continued by Robin "roblimo" Miller on the 18th...

49 of 153 comments (clear)

  1. CNN by dattaway · · Score: 2

    I have seen what looks like the DVD CCA courting the press, especially CNN Headline News, about "hackers" pirating DVD's. Its one sided articles like these that make me wonder how ramped up the DVD CCA is toward public relations and pumping up press releases.

    1. Re:CNN by Royster · · Score: 2

      I'm less concerned about spin doctoring than about laywering. I wouldn't be surprised if the DVD CCA paid more for public relations than legal advise.

      Spin doctors can make a good smokescreen, but all it takes is a good stiff wind to make all their efforts for naught. When the legal ruling (which, in principle, should not be influenced by public opinion) comes down, the ruling will speak for itself. I just don't see the DVD CCA making any headway with this court.

      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
    2. Re:CNN by Wah · · Score: 2

      to continue this meme, I saw a poll at one mass media website (sorry, I don't recall) asking "Does anyone see a downside to the AOL/TW merger?" This was included on a page with 2 links to articles talking about how good it was. So they offer a leading poll question, coupled with biased content, so tommorrow on Headline News you see that 70% of your peers can see no downside to the merger. Welcome to mass media in the 21st century.

      --
      +&x
  2. Let's hit them where it hurts! by farrellj · · Score: 2

    I was about to upgrade my home video system by adding a DVD player, and some surround speakers. Until this case is resolved in favour of the defendants (ie, essentially, the Linux community), I will not buy a DVD player, or any movies. I will also encourage others to do the same.

    Us Nerds, Geeks, or whatever you want to call computer people are early adopters of new tech, if we stop buying their stuff, they may sit up and take notice.

    ttyl
    Farrell

    --
    CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
  3. How does copy protection help? by bluGill · · Score: 2

    I've been trying to understand this encryption for a while. Obviously they inseret some codes that would tell a DVD writer not to write this data stream (simply to do without encryption, though encryption makes fitlersing impossibal without breaking the encryption)

    Whats to stop me from taking apart a DVD writer (which I understand currently can'`t do this, but do to density of writing or some such, but eventially they will exist) and hooking it up to a dvd reader, again directly to the electronics. Granted this isn't easy, but I'm a geek, I can hack up enough controll software to do this. Note that I've not broken the encryption, I've just copied the moved encryption and all. This doesn't seem that difficult to me.

    1. Re:How does copy protection help? by Royster · · Score: 5

      Consumer DVD drives will not read all of the data physically on the disk without doing at least part of the CSS dance. The title key is present (encrypted with each of the 408 player keys and in a hashed form)in a special location on the disk. This area is not read by requesting the contents of sector X, but rather by issuing an IOCTL to the drive. The drive will then send some data that needs to be passed through a (once secret) hash function. If the software returns the correct hash, the disk is said to be "authenticated" and another IOCTL will return the 2k-bit special sector.

      I think that someone who could reprogram the firmware in a consumer DVD drive, could redesign it to return this segment without going through the CSS dance. Then they could extract all of the information on a DVD.

      But currently available writable DVDs won't help them make copies because the drives can't write the special sector. I've heard that it is because the sector is burnt out on blank media.
      Another difficulty is that currently available DVD writers can only write on a single layer which limits the capacity to an amount less than most DVD movies.

      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
    2. Re:How does copy protection help? by Hard_Code · · Score: 2

      Or...what's stopping you from copying the whole damn thing to your hard drive, deleting some parts of it, and then burning a new DVD or just playing it off your hard drive?

      This is exactly like VHS tapes. Did anybody use some stupid encryption scheme to keep people from copying stuff? No. They put up a big annoying sign that said if you copy this illegally, we'll open a can of whoop-ass on you.

      If you are giving something to people, there's no way to /force/ them not to do something with it. Same with MP3's etc. I mean, if we really wanted to, we could just hook video and audio out into a VCR or something and record it, or record it to disk without any encryption. It's just dumb.

      Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
    3. Re:How does copy protection help? by dattaway · · Score: 2

      Whats to stop me from taking apart a DVD writer . . . and hooking it up to a dvd reader, again directly to the electronics.

      There's always a hardware solution for everything. Unfortunately, using electronic means, rather than simply through software, is physical equipment that has to be set up. With the help of just an oscilloscope, possibly logic probes, or even a logic analyzer for the tough babies, the raw stream can be located for capture.

      Software allows a much more portable means of distributing a solution. You can think of your computer as a programmable electronic laboratory. Those electronic project kits have to be hardwired. Linux and free software allows us to program an entire science project full of gates and latches with highly configurable code.

      Granted, in this case, it would be much easier to simply copy the raw video stream if one wanted to pirate a DVD. Those who wish to steal the content and pirate it overseas can justify the costs of doing just that.

      Most consumers who have no interest in copying a cheap dvd to an expensive blank can't watch it on their "obsolete" or non mainstream computer and were stuck without a player for alternative operating systems. Now we are not excluded.

    4. Re:How does copy protection help? by DaveHowe · · Score: 3
      I've been trying to understand this encryption for a while. Obviously they inseret some codes that would tell a DVD writer not to write this data stream (simply to do without encryption, though encryption makes filtering impossible without breaking the encryption)
      That's the main point - the CCA encryption does't prevent (or even hinder) copying, but prevents a non-authorised player from playing the film, as every frame is encrypted, and supposedly only "authorised" players whose manufacturers/writers have paid their dues to the CCA receive details of the encryption used and the keys. This has two immediate effects:
      1. Only people willing to buy their way into the CCA can produce software or hardware to play -LEGALLY OWNED- DVD disks
      2. the world can be divided up into DVD "Zones" where movies from another Zone can't be played on your player - thus, if the .us version costs half as much as the .au, then you STILL need to pay the .au asking price, as the .us version just won't work (assuming you don't just set your box to .us and forget about buying .au movies, of course :+)
        YES, you can change the zone - but under the new spec, this can only be done a small number of times before the unit needs to be sent back to the manufacturer for the count to be reset.
      What it comes down to is that the movie industry wishes it was still back in the days of movie theatres, where you pay per view, per seat.
      --
      --
      -=DaveHowe=-
    5. Re:How does copy protection help? by Bob(TM) · · Score: 5

      What's to stop me from taking apart a DVD writer (which I understand currently can'`t do this, but do to density of writing or some such, but eventially they will exist) and hooking it up to a dvd reader, again directly to the electronics.

      Absolutely nothing; and that is a critical point here.

      Do you mess around with the Sony Playstation any? We'll, Sony engineered their hardware to prevent you from using copied Playstation CD in their systems. As I understand it, Playstation CDs are written with intentional checksum errors that are corrected when you attempt to copy them. The Playstation hardware looks for the errors; if they aren't there, it won't attempt to run the code on the CD.

      We'll, didn't take long before some smart folks figured out how to get around it. The process involves soldering in a small microprocessor chip (a PIC) in the right place in the Playstation. The system checks tries to check for the checksum errors and the PIC says "it's cool - just go ahead." It's a $10 modification.

      Sony doesn't send a cadre of lawyers to beat up people who do this. First off, they don't have a legal leg to stand on. The people who buy the consoles can do what they want with them and, if they want to solder chips inside - well, that's their right. Sony just makes hardware and sells hardware; you buy it and they are happy.

      It's not the same with the DVD folks. The issue to the DVD guys isn't the encryption; the encryption technology is a means to an end. Rather, they want to control who can play DVDs in order to maximize profits. They make their money by licensing the decryption technology - other people make the hardware/software. That's why the Linux community wasn't important to them; it didn't seem like a big revenue source.

      The reason they're mad (and sueing) is that they thought they could milk this decryption licensing cow a little while longer than it turned out they could. However, a bunch of smart people managed to shorted the cows life a bit. The DVD encryption folks don't have a leg left.

      --

      The little guy just ain't getting it, is he?
    6. Re:How does copy protection help? by kingkong5 · · Score: 3
      If the copy protection is limited to a special sector that is burnt out on the blank media, perhaps some quick thinking entrepreneurs could start selling blank media with this part already encoded? And as long as the writable drives aren't going to touch that sector anyway, it should work fine, right?

      --
      Why is abbreviation such a long word?
    7. Re:How does copy protection help? by mindstrm · · Score: 2

      1) The area on the disc that contains the 40 or so vendor keys is not/will not be writable on writable DVD.
      2) The purpose of the codes is not to tell the writer not to write it.. the writer can write all it wants.. the purpose of the codes is that, without these codes, you cannot decode the mpeg data to watch the movie.

      IN more detail...
      a) Each movie (title) is encrypted with a unique title key.
      b) The title key is then encrypted, 40 different ways with 40 different player keys (it's not exactly 40.. but I forget how many). These encrypted keys are stored in a table in a special area of the disc.
      c) Each DVD player is assigned a player key, and told what offset their key is at.
      d) When playing, the player looks up it's assigned position in the key table, decodes the key (giving it the title key) and plays the movie.

  4. Ambiguous language by / · · Score: 2

    When Douglas Winslow says "I plan to party either way. I'll either end up watching or burning part of my DVD collection to celebrate the outcome of the hearing[...]" does he mean setting the DVDs on fire or "burning" new copies to distribute to others in mockery of the (adverse) ruling? I assume it's the former, in which case I'm curious about what fuel he plans to use: butane, propane, beer, what? These things are plastic coated aluminum, right? They don't burn so easily or so brightly. Maybe microwaving them would be more effective.

    --
    "If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
    1. Re:Ambiguous language by overshoot · · Score: 4

      I'm curious about what fuel he plans to use: butane, propane, beer, what? These things are plastic coated aluminum, right? They don't burn so easily or so brightly. Maybe microwaving them would be more effective.

      Ah, child, you're too young to remember old-fashioned flashbulbs. Nothing but aluminum wire in a glass&plastic envelope, and man! were those suckers bright. Nothing, and I mean nothing burns like aluminum in oxygen.

      Since this is a geek forum, here's a little science experiment. Wear welding goggles and sunscreen (no, I'm not joking about the sunscreen.) Do it far from anything combustible, like yourself or your car.

      Get a little bit of the usual magnesium tape (you can light Mg with a match) and use it to start a small piece of aluminum foil supported by something you don't care about (because it's gonna be ruined.) The glare will be visible from orbit.

      Oh, year: wear white or something you don't mind getting bleached by the UV. And trust me on the sunscreen.

      --
      Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  5. Don't really wear bells! by FascDot+Killed+My+Pr · · Score: 3

    We don't want to look like a bunch of elves! They have a worse reputation than hackers.
    ---

    --
    Linux MAPI Server!
    http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
    (Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
  6. Easier said than done by kwsNI · · Score: 2
    First off, this isn't a flame :) I really would like to be able to do this - but why? Really, do you think that the relatively small number of people that truly care about this would hurt the DVD industry?
    I already have a DVD player - I don't own a VCR. I'm not willing to stop renting and buying DVDs just because the industry is launching a stupid lawsuit over creativity.

    It's a great idea, but for most of us, it's not practicle.

    kwsNI

    1. Re:Easier said than done by SoftwareJanitor · · Score: 3

      I can't say how the numbers stack up, but I own three VCRs and no DVD player, and I have no intention of buying a DVD player until this whole mess is settled. I have a practical reason for this -- I don't trust that the motion picture companies won't abandon current generation DVD players and/or format in order to get around the problem of CSS being broken. At this point I am taking a wait and see attitude, which won't really hurt me since the price of DVD players like VCRs will only continue to drop (you can buy a name brand, 4-head, HiFi stereo, HQ VCR for under $100 these days).

      Another reason I am holding off is that the local video rental stores around here have a couple dozen titles on DVD. They carry a few thousand titles on VHS. They also charge more for a DVD rental than for a new-release VHS rental. Until the selection on DVD gets better and the price comes into line, I am not that interested.

      BTW, with no VCR, how do you record something off broadcast/cable/sattelite if you want to watch it later? Until DVD's are a read/write medium, they aren't really a replacement for a VCR.

    2. Re:Easier said than done by SoftwareJanitor · · Score: 2

      DVD isn't intended to replace VCRs much the same way an audio CD was never intended to replace a cassette deck.

      Regardless of whether DVD was intended to replace VCRs, once a suitable writable/rewritable media comes out for the format they will be capable of doing so. The same thing is true of audio CD's, while they were intended to replace vinyl records and not audio cassettes, once a writable/rewritable media came out, they are now capable of replacing cassettes. While I still have cassette decks, I haven't used one in a long time. I find it preferablee to use CD-R for the things I used to use cassettes for.

  7. Why? by G27+Radio · · Score: 2

    I know I'm missing a piece of the puzzle here. How does CSS prevent piracy of a DVD? If the disc is read bit for bit, then written bit for bit (with encryption intact) how does the new disc or DVD player know that the copy isn't the original? I'm assuming the decryption comes in when it comes to converting the bits to video.

    What about people that want to create their own DVD content? Does it have to be encrypted to work on DVD players? The cynical side of me says that what it's really about is controlling the dissemination of content. Or at least finding a way to stay in the loop in a world where people would otherwise no longer need media companies to publish for them. Admittedly, my knowledge of this subject is a little weak...thus all the questions.

    numb

    1. Re:Why? by jd · · Score: 3
      As I understand it, blank DVD's will have a chunk pre-written at the time of manufacture. Because of this, it would be impossible to bit-copy onto such a disk. (Provided that the section couldn't be by-passed, in some way, giving you a slightly smaller, virtual "blank disk" to write on.)

      The only other way to make a copy, with a pre-written segment, would be if you could decrypt, and then re-encrypt, using the pre-written segment as a guide in some way. (Maybe it's written where the key is expected.)

      The only catch would be if people built their own DVD players/recorders, in which you could simply jump over that segment, or if they were able to manufacture their own blanks, in which case they wouldn't have to pre-write anything.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:Why? by QuMa · · Score: 2

      Actually, iirc the pure hardware DVD players (in other words, the VCRoid things, not the thing you shove into your comp) require the DVD to be encrypted.

    3. Re:Why? by alhaz · · Score: 2

      That conflicts with reports that a lot of region 2 dvd's aren't encrypted.

      --
      This is just like television, only you can see much further.
  8. Tired of Suboptimal Technology by dscheele · · Score: 3

    I have long been angry with the media industry's selfish policy of fighting technological improvements that give the consumer better audio or video playback and recording quality. This has been evident ever since the introduction of the DAT format in the early '80s. The industry has clearly decided that certain technology is "too good" for the consumer, because it would enable high quality copying for others. This may be a valid concern, but to resort to simpleminded protection schemes and lawsuits against equipment manufacturers shows their lack of concern for the enjoyment of their customers and demonstrates that profit is their only concern.

  9. Encryption != copy protection by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 2

    There's absolutely nothing to stop you from doing that, and that's part of the point of the case. They're making out like the community is aiding and abetting a bunch of pirates who are going to crank out $3 low-quality knockoffs of Jim Varney movies or something (or worse, that we're the pirates). Part of our point is that if we wanted to, we could easily do that without breaking the encryption, just as you described. (Never mind that it would cost a lot more than just going out and buying the DVDs already made. Never let logic get in the way of FUD, that's their motto.)

    This is really about freedom and control. They're basically using a crappy, easily-broken encryption scheme to try to control a proprietary format, and then bleating because somebody broke their crappy encryption and now a bunch of us might be able to watch DVDs on our Linux players without waiting for someone to pay them a bucketful of money for the specs on how to decode the DVDs. I say, "No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney."

    Argh, I can feel myself going into full rant mode. Time for my medication. I'll leave it to others to rehash the reasons why this lawsuit should not only be thrown out of court, but taught in first-year law school as a prime bad example.
    --

    --
    Someone you trust is one of us.
    1. Re:Encryption != copy protection by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 2

      B-O-L-O-G-N-A is what an unenlightened person puts on his sandwich when there are better alternatives. Examples of better alternatives are roast beef, turkey and maple-cured ham.

      B-A-L-O-N-E-Y is what an unenlightened person spouts forth when there are better alternatives. Examples of better alternatives are not claiming that DVD decryption is being used for purposes of piracy, and not trying to correct someone who does in fact know the difference between bologna of the awful-excuse-for-lunchmeat variety and baloney of the you-don't-know-what-you're-talking-about variety.
      --

      --
      Someone you trust is one of us.
  10. DVD CCA & Press by Diamond+Slicer · · Score: 5

    DVD CCA is courting the press for several obivous reasons.

    1. Judicial Opinion. I don't care if justices are supposed to be impartial and whatnot, but they do watch the news and I am willing to bet that a fair amount of them study the case before it starts. If DVD can influence the judge in any way they will.

    2. NSI Opinion. Remember eToys vrs eToy? eToys worked darn hard to make sure that everyone thought eToy was in the wrong. Because they did it successfully, they got NSI to step in remove the website from its DNS.

    3. Public Opinion. DVD CCA is not an idiot and realizes that people may be the deciding key in the case. If the laywers for DVD can convince the judge that the public is against DeCSS (maybe by Xpert witnesses and such) or show that the public does not yet have the DeCSS source code enough to prevent CSS from be a trademark anymore they win the case.

    The DVD CCA is doing an excellent job at its game. We (open sourcers) are doing miserably. Does anyone know of any article in FAVOR of us at any major news site? Probably not. I on the other hand have seen articles decrying us in my local paper (Minneapolis Star Trib, Pioneer Press) and heard about it on local radio stations. Nowhere (outside of /. and like sites) have I heard our story. If we are planning on winning the case, we need an effective publicity campaign also.

    Laws be dammed, history has shown that public opinion often decides cases. (If it didn't we would probably have far less supreme court cases and the thing about that cuban boy Elian - wouldn't exist)

    --
    Is it progress if a cannibal uses a fork?
    1. Re:DVD CCA & Press by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 2

      re: etoy.com. The judge did'nt order that the domain name was suspended. The judge ordered that etoy.com stopped using www.etoy.com. There's no reason why etoy's mail should be suspended (as happens when their domain is on hold). Plus they already has unplugged www.etoy.com, complying with the order. So the NSI move was useless, illegal and unmotivated. Further on, according to NSI's policy, eToyS.com SHOULD BE suspended, as their name conflicts with etoy's, which was in use way before. And note that eToys' trademark transfer (they bought it back from Etna Toys) had been ruled INVALID.

  11. FAQ:s please! by guran · · Score: 2
    The same questions keep popping up every time this DVD issue is on /.

    Is there a FAQ somewhere with the usual:

    • Commercial DVD recorders cant do bitwise copy
    • And yes they mess with DVD -> VHS too
    • Region codes yada yada
    • Reverse enginering vs Norwegian and US law
    • Single layer vs multi layer DVD
    • CSS licence agreement
    Somebody, Pllllease?
    --

    All opinions are my own - until criticized

  12. Let's make a clear statement by dsplat · · Score: 3

    If they succeed in scuttling open source DVD playing software, I won't buy DVD movies. My own computer has never run anything but Linux. Someday, if I have the time, I'll probably give FreeBSD a try. If I can't play DVD movies on a real OS, then they don't want my money.

    --
    The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
    1. Re:Let's make a clear statement by dsplat · · Score: 2
      I agree. My computer has never run commercial software code. Its an all free system. It may be dysfunctional behavior in today's society, but I feel my rights include something that is not mandated by commercial interests.


      Personally, I'm not even trying to make a political statement. I don't like to have my computer crash, and I need to be able to tailor my environment to unusual uses. I have seen that a good system administrator who knows what he's doing can reduce the number of Windows crashes significantly. I don't want to have to spend that kind of time on my home machine working around a poor default configuration.

      But the issue of being able to tailor the system to something unusual is more important. First, I have to have support for the latin-3 character set. Oops, it isn't popular. Try finding fonts for it on the Web some time and you'll see what I mean. Second, as far as I'm concerned, any tool that doesn't let me automate the things I do repeatedly is wasting my time. I edit with Emacs, and there is no one else on the planet with anything close to my key bindings.
      --
      The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
  13. Dress up day by Periwinkle · · Score: 5

    I'm the third defendant in the case. I *have* to appear becuase I live in California. I just wanted to say that I would really be grateful to the open source community if poeple made a good show of it.

    I think we have a very strong case here. A reaffirmation of the first amendment and a good pounding out of internet law. I think the precidences set by winning a case like this will be beneficial to all of us.

    On thing though... I jokingly mentioned to other defendants that I might attend this trial in a Metalica T-shirt with spiked up hair. That's what we call a bad idea. It's dress up day. We all need to look, hrmm, somewhat "professional". Remember, we're talking to a bunch of suits here.

    Please, come if you can. Your presence will be felt by the judge, the plaintif, and us frightened (angry?) defendants. Hopefully we can really change some attitudes about open source here.

  14. Amusing by friedo · · Score: 4

    What amuses me so much about this case is that it seems the DVD CA doesn't even recognize the fact that the DeCSS effort is good for business! . It simply allows people on an otherwise non-supported platform to watch their movies. They've already purchased DVD drives manufactured by DVD CA members, and they've already purchased movies made by them as well. Further, with DeCSS technology now available, they will continue to buy those products, and people who otherwise wouldn't have will start. It's still very difficult to actually copy DVD's, as you need very expensive burning gear to do so. (AFAIK, regular DVD-RAM burners won't do.) Man, lawyers are dumb :)

    1. Re:Amusing by Senior+Frac · · Score: 2

      What amuses me so much about this case is that it seems the DVD CA doesn't even recognize the fact that the DeCSS effort is good for business!. This is an interesting conflict of interest. The interests of those companies who make DVD movies are to sell as many units as possible. Yet, the goal of the DVD CA is only to sell licenses. Normally, these two goals mesh well but, in this instance, their interests diverge.

    2. Re:Amusing by Kris_J · · Score: 2
      the DVD CA doesn't even recognize the fact that the DeCSS effort is good for business
      Same dilemma as emulators - money is made on the media, not the devices, so having more devices must be good for business, right? Works right up to the point where most users of the PC PSX emulator copy CDs.

      The fact that a huge number of people have modded their PSXs to play CD-Rs does tend to get forgotten - just like the fact that you can bit-for-bit copy DVDs without any of the latest software devolpments.

      This lawsuit is just a nusance/bandaid effort. The DVD CCA probably thought this would be a simple matter where they made an example of a bunch of hacker/pirates - they picked the wrong fight.

  15. Movie makers trying to turn it around? by NettRom · · Score: 4
    I just read over on the Norwegian newspaper Nettavisen that the film industry considers the "DVD bomb" a "minor incident" (or something to the equivalent of that). The article is in Norwegian, and I'm not sure if this is really news (couldn't find anything about it on CNN even though they quote CNN in the article), but I'll try a quick translation.

    (Start of article)

    "Norwegian" DVD bomb a minor incident

    First Hollywood postponed releasing new DVDs. Then several DVD-manufacturers filed against a group of hackers, among them a 16-year old Norwegian. But now Hollywood doesn't care that the DVD-codes are broken.

    When 16-year old Jon Johansen and the rest of a hacker group found the codes necessary to copy DVD movies and distribute them on the Internet, it created a riot in the film industry.

    To trial...

    Several manufacturers postponed the release of both discs and new players to find new ways to encrypt them. The companies filed suit against the 16-year old and the rest of the group that took part in the production and distribution of the software, without gaining ground.

    Johansen removed the link to the software from his home page, by his own saying because he didn't have time or resources to fight.

    As expected...

    Now the large movie studios in Hollywood say the software that removes the copy protection is a minor thing.

    - We expected the protection code to be broken sooner or later. We were actually surprised that it took so long, says vice president of Warner Home Video, James Cardwell, to CNN.

    - There is little or no gain in hacking our products. Blank DVDs cost more than our already made discs, and it takes hours to download the movies over the Internet, claims Cardwell.

    DeCSS...

    DeCSS is the name of the software that makes it possible to copy the discs directly from a DVD-ROM player to a computer's harddrive. the DVDs have a capacity of 4,7GB, which makes it impossible to copy it to a regular CD. Other software also available on the 'net makes it possible to alter the DVD-files to a regular CD format.

    Since the VHS format for VCRs was launched, movie piracy has been a huge problem for the movie companies. They hoped that DVD would finally end this. Now it's clear that copying DVDs is as easy as copying regular videotapes.

    (End of article)

    Besides the usual mistakes about what this is all about, it seems that the movie industry is now trying to calm things down, turning around a bit. Trying to calm down the fire, maybe?

  16. DVD Piracy and Region Coding by Kagato · · Score: 2

    What I've never understood is why they are making examples out of people in the US. The US is small time for piracy. Sure there are FTP sites and the ilk, but it's small time compared to asia. Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea...this is whre pirating is a big time...open...business. They don't bother with CD-R or DVD-R. The materials are pressed with silk screen images. Other than being packaged in a normal jewl case you can't tell the difference. Last year I checked out an Electronics mall in Singapore. 8 Floors of computers and electronics...a sight to be seen for sure. There were a dozen stores selling pirate CD's and VCDs. I've heard now that DVD's are common too.

    Dispite Singapores touch love law enforcement there is little done about this. I think it has to do with the fact that the cost of making and packaging a pressed DVD in volume is USD$2-3, that 800% mark up just doesn't sit right.

    As far as region codes I saw that at most places in Singapore would put a mod in your DVD player that will allow you to play whatever you wanted to for about S$100 (USD$50).



  17. Didn't we already fight this court battle once? by buckrogers · · Score: 4

    Isn't this to see if we can archive the bits on the media that we buy? Didn't we already win this case against the software industry back in the '70's?

    That is when the software companies sued a few companies that were making archival copies of software. The judge in that case said that people can make copies of software for archival purposes. And that customers were allowed to defeat anti-copy measures that the manufacturer had installed on the media (floppy disks at the time.)

    The case was a joke then and it is a joke now. The manufacturers what us to goto them for the hardware and software that are needed to play their movies. I bet that if the players didn't have this encryption scheme that they would be less than $75 right now.

    So what somebody has broken the encrytion scheme. If they didn't want someone to do this they should have _patented_ the technology. Now they are whining in court that someone in Norway is giving away their trade secrets.

    Well BooHoo, that person never signed an agreement with the companies that he wouldn't give away trade secrets. If that person had been an employee of the company then this argument would make a lot of sense.

    Now they are claiming that all of us had agreed to not reverse engineer the software because of the shrink wrap agreement that comes with every player. I am so glad someone is finally trying to sue someone over shrink wrapped licenses. This will expose them for the sham that they are.

    I don't agree to any contract that I haven't signed. Especially one that I don't even see until after I have already purchased something. Especially when these agreements effectively say that I can't do anything to the company if their product causes me harm and that the product isn't actually suitable for anything. And that I don't really own the product that I am holding in my hand and that I had just paid my good hard dollars for.

    Of course I can sue the software company if I use their product in the way that it was marketed and it causes me harm. Of course I own the product and all of its bits if I paid money for it. And I own all the little bits on my own computer.

    I will be so glad when the judge throws out the shrink wrap agreements for the sham that they are.

    --
    -- Never make a general statement.
  18. thermite by Signal+11 · · Score: 2
    You're describing thermite, and it's aluminum and iron oxide (aka rust) mixed in a 1:1 ratio along with a piece of magnesium to start it. Now, as far as I know, magnesium burns very hot, but you can't just start it with a match. A friend of mine tried, and it didn't do anything. A bunsen burner will start it, or a butane torch.. but I don't think a match will do it. A lighter *might*, but don't bet on it.

    The optimal mixture is to turn the aluminum and iron oxide into a fine dust and mix it 1:1. The combustion, at about 20 feet, is enough to vaporize carbon-steel. It will also weld things to pavement (and leave ugly warping). If you ever wanted to fake a martian landing, this is how you do it. Don't put it on any pavement you value, and keep it atleast 150-200 feet away from anything valuable. It is not explosive, but it burns incredibly hot. The goggles are a Good Thing(tm) too - don't forget them.

    1. Re:thermite by hey! · · Score: 2

      Moderately thick (maybe .5 mm or so) magnesium wire will definitely light with a match. I've seen it done many times. The point about the welder's mask should be taken seriously, as well as precautions against getting burned. People have been seriously hurt (blinded, burnt) by playing with magnesium wire. No reason not to try it, just be real careful.

      A block of magnesium of course cannot be lit, any more than a block of aluminum. The key is having enough surface area exposed relative to the mass of metal; a fine powder is probably best. I have a small pocket fire starter that consists of an magnesium block with a steel bar on one edge. You shave off some magnesium with your pocket knife and strike the bar with your knife to get a spark. It even works in the rain.

      You can even burn fine steel wool, although it is not self sustaining by itself without a blower.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:thermite by overshoot · · Score: 2

      Nope, thermite if for graduate-level pyros. Plain ol' aluminum foil is for PYR201-level stuff.

      As for lighting Mg with a match, all I can say is "been there, done that."

      --
      Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  19. Open letter to the DVD CCA by griffjon · · Score: 5

    Dear DVD Copyright Control Association;

    I wish to inquire of you how I may return my extensive collection of DVD movies I
    have acquired over the past year. I no longer wish to possess them, despite their
    vastly superior quality, number of options, and other market-changing,
    market-creating attributes. I wish full refund of my movies, less a reasonable fee
    collected because I have viewed them a few times each.

    You see; I feel I can no longer, in good conscience as a law-abiding American
    citizen view these wondrous disks legally on my computer system. Though I
    bought or was given as a gift each DVD legally, as well as own legal copies of the
    DVD hardware and decoding software from my computer manufacturer, I have
    installed two components onto my computer since it was purchased that, I fear,
    jeopardize the legality of viewing DVDs on it.

    Most relevant, I possess a copy of deCSS, the program you are undoubtedly
    familiar with that allows users to copy DVD movies from their handy DVD-ROM
    disk into unwieldy, 6+ gigabtye files on their hard drives. I downloaded this
    software in the hopes that it would enable me to view my copy of The Matrix more
    fully, or enjoy DVD movies with fewer problems due to disk access errors. It has
    proved far to cumbersome, however (I only have 3 gigabytes of free space, which
    are rapidly becoming full with MP3s from MP3.com and from my own CD
    collection (MP3s don't skip during dancing at parties, you see).

    But furthermore, I have followed the slow progression of the production of a
    reliable and hardware-independent Linux/*nix DVD Player. The other component
    I have modified my computer with, you see, is a secondary hard drive from which
    I can boot the Linux operating system instead of Windows. Ideally, I would like to
    use Linux as my primary operating system.

    Your recent letter to the LiVid (DVD for Linux) developers and the creative
    programmers who released deCSS, however, has me concerned. It seems that
    there is no possibility that any development in a Linux DVD player would be, by
    your definition, using secret technologies via reverse engineering, despite the fact
    that the CSS technique was not patented. I fear that because I wish to view DVDs
    on Linux, and that any Linux implementation would be illegal, that I can no longer
    in good conscience view DVDs on any Operating System running on my
    computer-it is, after all, the same computer which could view them illegally in one
    OS, so how could viewing the same DVD in the other OS be possibly legal? What
    if I upgraded my Linux partition one day after a DVD solution had been reached,
    possibly 'illegally', and accidentally entered into Linux, failed to recognize the
    difference, and played a DVD of mine? I would fear that the police would be
    knocking at my door instantaneously, and this time they wouldn't be asking me to
    turn down my music (or which Jazz singer that was, anyway?). Having no recourse
    to achieve my fair-use of the DVDs which I have purchased without entering into a
    legal gray-area, I wish to return my discs and receive refunds for them.

    Please indicate the shipping address to which they should be mailed, and when I
    should expect reimbursement of their cost and the rather large cost of shipping my
    substantial investment into what I had hoped would be a brave new world of
    theatrical experiences.

    Regretfully,

    --
    Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
  20. Does this make pirating impractical? by hey! · · Score: 3

    But currently available writable DVDs won't help them make copies because the drives can't write the special sector. I've heard
    that it is because the sector is burnt out on blank media.


    Interesting... Does this mean you cannot create a DVD that is playable in an umodified player without specially prepared media?

    If this is the case, then cracking the DVD encryption scheme would only make it possible to play a movie, or to copy it to a hard drive. You would not be able to burn a DVD that was playable in a DVD player, only other DeCSS based software players.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  21. I think we're missing the point. by TonyThompson · · Score: 2
    DVD encryption doesn't exist to control DVD players. With the possible exception of zone restrictions, but even then the amount of true piracy and imported movies are minimal.

    I think the real aim of the DVD CCA is to control piracy of the movie industry, not of an individual movie. To explain: If I dupe a DVD I can cheat some distribution company like Columbia or TriStar out of $20 in profits. But if I, as an independant filmmaker release my own DVD disc, I've cut them out of what could possibly be millions in revenues. DVDs, MP3s, CDRs the internet and a few other technologies allow content producers to completely and totally circumvent distributors.

    If I was a distributor, I think this would scare me, badly.

    What I think the DVD CCA is trying to do is to make DVDs difficult to produce. Can I produce a new movie and burn it to a DVD RAM? Probably. Will that play properly in a commercial DVD player? I don't know - but I doubt it.

  22. Make The Judge Ask The Right Questions by Fezzik · · Score: 2

    Obviously it's difficult to say anything meaningful; smarter folks than I have hashed this out pretty well and IANAL, as always. But someone made a good point about the Judicial Opinion. Public opinion may not sway the judges' actual decision, but it could make him ask the wrong questions. Like Godel, Escher, Bach suggests, sometimes just asking the wrong question can derail an argument. If the judge starts asking questions like "Why do you want to encourage piracy?" or "Is copying DVDs protected under the first amendment?" he's on the wrong track. Better questions are things like "Does encryption keep people from copying DVDs?" or "What, exactly, does DeCSS let you do that you couldn't do before?" or the coup de grace, "What law/contract/right is it alleged that the defendants even broke in this case?" My two cents.

    --
    The players tried to take the field. The marching band refused to yield...
  23. A cautionary tale by risacher · · Score: 4

    An email message I sent a while back:

    I've been working on new and interesting ways to almost kill myself.

    As you may or may not know, I have this passing interest in metalworking. I've always wanted to build a rocket to the moon, and I figure that I'll need to know how to weld, cast and machine metal to do it. So I built a small foundry, according to a series of books entitled "Build Your Own Machine Shop From Scrap". Book one is "The Charcoal Foundry". Which I built. It's low-capacity; I can cast about a quart of molten aluminum. (Albeit poorly.)

    Anyhow, back when I lived in Oklahoma, I bought a whole bunch of scrap aluminum from my welding instructor. (8 or 9 VW Bug transmission housings) And I also picked up some other large castings from work (IBM 3390 disk-pack housings) that were being thrown out.

    These pieces are too large to fit in my tiny little crucible, so I would smash them to bits with a sledgehammer. But parts of the scrap were too heavy to be smashed, no matter how hard I tried. There was a paragraph about this in the foundry book, that suggested building a fire around any castings that were too heavy to smash with a sledge, and heating them till they were soft. I decided to try this.

    So, last night, I crept down the road in the inky blackness to an abandoned barn that's slowly succumbing to the Mississippi foliage and has a large pile of broken timbers. I dragged the wood out to the road, and came back for it with the truck. Then I built a bonfire of the dry timbers, interspersed with VW transmission housings and 3390 disk pack cases. Lacking somewhere better, I built the fire on the 12x12 concrete pad that forms my back patio.

    I was moderately safety conscious. I built the pile as far from the house as I could (which wasn't very far). I took the propane tank out of my grill and moved it to the other side of the house. I had the garden hose pouring water continuously into the grass. I had my kitchen fire extinguisher and welding gloves near at hand. Thus prepared, I lit the fire.

    It took a while for the fire to catch. I was concerned that the pile had too many castings and not enough wood, and that the fire wouldn't spread all the way around. But eventually it was getting pretty hot, and I could break up some of the smaller castings with a light blow from a steel bar.

    So I pulled out the big guns, and tried to hit one of the large castings with the sledgehammer. It broke, but it also sparked and sputtered and caught on fire. The metal was on fire. When metal burns, it has a flame that's quite distinctive from a wood flame. Wood burns yellow and red; metal burns white-hot like a welder's spark. I could definitely tell that there was a metal fire at the base of my bonfire.

    Now, I knew that magnesium will burn, and titanium too. I knew that sodium and potassium will burn in water. I didn't know that aluminum would burn. I never really considered that the castings would ignite. Perhaps aluminum needs to be a magnesium alloy to support combustion. I don't know. Whatever it was, it was burning.

    Metal fires are tremendously hotter than wood fires, which caused the rest of the pile to rapidly ignite from a nice controlled bonfire, to what I can only describe as a raging inferno from the depths of hell. Oh shit. So I grabbed the already-running garden hose and I tried to put the fire out. Unfortunately, this typically made things worse. Metal burns so hot that when water touches it, the water vaporizes explosively, showering the area with molten, burning metal droplets. The rate at which metal burns is limited by its surface area, and breaking up a molten metal glob by pouring water on it accelerates the process.

    So I grabbed the chemical fire extinguisher and tried to use that. Which worked, somewhat. But a small kitchen fire extinguisher has about 4 seconds worth of charge in it, and did not appreciably diminish the fire before it coughed and ran empty. Ah, shit.

    Fires, as I recall, are categorized into four classes: A, B, C, and D. I was planning on having a Class-A fire: paper and wood. Class B is an oil or grease fire; Class C is an electrical fire. But what I really had was the worst of all: Class D, a metal fire. They make special fire extinguishers for Class D fires. Unfortunately, I didn't have one.

    At this point, the flames were shooting up about 15 feet into the sky. Every so often, the pieces of burning aluminum would pop, throwing sparks and metal droplets everywhere. To complete the scene, also note that I had the stereo turned up inside the house, so as you visualize it, remember that BB King is wailing in the background.

    I did what I could. I had a big steel pole that I used to knock the fire apart, to dissipate the heat. I used the hose carefully to try to cool the fire down. I wore the welding gloves and dragged the burning timbers away from the fire where I could safely douse the wood with the hose.

    People stopped by and offered to help. They had seen the sparks and flames from the road, shooting above the house. They offered to call the fire department, an offer that a wise man would have readily accepted. But if I were a wise man, I wouldn't have done this in the first place, now would I?

    So I asked them to standby on the offer to call the fire department, and said I thought I was getting it under control. I was basically wrong, since the worst explosions, the ones that shot molten metal directly at the house, were still yet to come. But the fire was quieting down somewhat.

    (The house is brick. But the roof is not.)

    The problem that I had was that there was no obvious way to finish putting out the fire. I removed pretty much all the burning wood from the fire, and separated the metal fire into smaller fires, but how to put out the burning aluminum? All I had was water and a steel pole, neither of which really seemed to help. In hindsight, I also had a shovel nearby, which probably would have been the best tool. Hindsight is a marvelous thing, no?

    So, with a combination of patience (just letting the metal burn itself out), and cautious, gentle spraying with the hose, I got the fire out. In the end, no damage to the house, no serious injuries. My patio is a mess, my fingers are a little singed. (I later discovered that the concrete under the fire was destroyed to a depth of 3-4 inches.) My scrap metal supply is largely vaporized. I have a large new supply of humility, and a moderately good story.

    I'm sure there's some deep lesson in this cautionary tale, but I'm not precisely sure what it is. I guess the big lesson is that aluminum burns. Forget that they make engine blocks and piston heads from the stuff. It burns, I know.

    --

    "The simplest solution is to ignore your dead children."

  24. Steeltoe by Steeltoe · · Score: 2

    My Grand vision for my future Company:

    ---
    By Purchasing or Using this Product you agree on the following EULA (End User License Agreement):

    1) We own all physical- and non-physical material and accompanying documentation of the Product, in all its forms and shapes. You may not alter, copy, resell or redistribute it in any way. We own it, not you.

    2) We own your hands. You may not misuse or exploit weaknesses in the Product. All operations documented in the Users Manual must be followed in the exact sequence they were written. We have provided a safety feature for the Product if malicious breaches are detected (See section 7).

    3) We own your social life. The Product is licensed to the First Time User(tm). To use the product, this User must Register and Submit all personal information to the Company. The License is personal to that User only and may not be overdrawn to someone else, not even your Dog or Fiancee. Only a Licensed User may operate the Product. Unregistered viewers is allowed view the contents by paying a double fee per session to the Company.

    4) We own your wiring and privacy. The Product must stay On-Line with an Internet connection to the Company at all times so the Credit Card Transactions can work seamlessly. The Company reserves every right to control and inspect the Product remotely. The user must place the Product in the middle of the room uncovered.

    5) We own your eyes and thoughts. You may not derive ideas or concepts about the Product's design, functionality or structure. The contents it provides you through normal operation is owned by each copyright holder under their own License. The Company reserves the right to upload blocks for content providers we find unsuitable.

    6) We own your mouth. You may not critizise the Product in any form or forum, as all such information is owned by the Company. Every single review and article concerning the Product must be officially edited and accepted by the Company before going to print.

    7) You may not use the Product after its expiration date. For your convinience a 7.2Kg TNT explosive is included free of charge which will automatically blow up our Package, so there's no need worrying about dates. Upgrades may be bought to delay the expiration date, but every Registered User is encouraged to Purchase new releases as they will most certainly be backwards-incompatible.

    8) Every Registered User have an obligation to report all violations of this EULA they encounter to the Company. Failing to do so is in turn considered an even graver violation.

    9) ALL VIOLATIONS OF THIS EULA IS CONSIDERED BREAKING FEDERAL LAW AND WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT OF THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(These !!'s should REALLY make it clear once and for all..)

    9) REMEMBER, SOME STATES STILL HAVE THE DEATH PENALTY. IF YOU ARE A NON-US CITIZEN, WE CAN DEAL WITH THE PAPERWORK AND PAY FOR THE ONE-WAY TRIP TO USA.
    ---

    Good luck with your futures.

    - Steeltoe

  25. Deservedly angry defendants by Royster · · Score: 2

    Your presence will be felt by the judge, the plaintif, and us frightened (angry?) defendants.

    I think that several of your codefendants have reason to be very angry. Contained in this page, I found a deposition by Harvey Shapiro, one of the plaintiff's weasel^H^H^H^H^H^Hlawyers, in which nearly every defendant (but not you, I see) is described as having "offered to sell unauthorized DVD copies of my clients' motion pictures".

    One such site so described was http://openprojects.net where the Livid CVS and developers list archive were hosted. Now I've read nearly every post to that list since sometime in October and I've never seen anyone offer to sell any copyrighted material. I wonder if someone making a false accusation of this sort constitutes slander or libel.

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
    1. Re:Deservedly angry defendants by __aahyzr9271 · · Score: 2

      INAL, but assuming that Harvey Shapiro can't prove his allagations, and the allagations were made with the intent to do harm, one of two things can happen:

      * If the Motion Picture Association (MPA) made the accusations, and Mr. Shapiro was simply sending out cese-and-desist letters, the MPA would be liable for slander or libel, but Mr. Shapiro wouldn't.

      -but-

      * If Mr. Shapiro made the accusations, then he would be liable.

      From the following passages on the site you mentioned;

      3. On or about October 25, 1999, I began to receive information from the MPA that unauthorized DVD copies of its members' motion pictures, and instructions and computer applications to defeat DVD encryption, were available at specific web sites on the Internet. Beginning on or about November 4th, 1999, I (or employees of my firm acting at my direction) sent letters to Internet service providers, system administrators and others, informing the recipients that this unauthorized material was found at a specific web site address or addresses over which they exercised control. I asked them to provide me with the identity of the web site's content provider(s), and to take action to stop the infringing activity.

      4. I sent out three types of form letters, depending on (i) the type of infringing activity and (ii) the action I requested the recipient take to stop the infringing activity. These letters are appended as Exhibit A. In the first type of form letter, I notified the recipient that the person responsible for the web site apparently was offering both pirated DVDs and unauthorized decryption technology. I requested that the recipient cease and desist from infringing MPA members' copyrights. In the second type of form letter, I notified the recipient that the person responsible for the web site was offering both pirated DVDs and unauthorized decryption technology. In this letter, I requested (i) that the individual's account be terminated; (ii) that further action be taken to stop the infringing activity; and (iii) that I be provided with the account operator's name and physical address. In the third type of letter, I notified the recipient that I believed the person responsible for the web site was offering CSS decryption technology, "links" to web sites which provided such technology, and/or CSS authorizing CVS code. I requested that (i) the individual's account be terminated, and (ii) that I be provided with the account operator's name and address.


      It looks to me that Mr.Shapiro made a big mistake, one that could make him liable for slander, libal, or both.

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that slander is spoken, libel is written, and the burden is on the accuser to prove that the accusations are true. I also think that it's the accusie's responcabilty to prove that the accusations were made with harmful intent.

      My $0.02...Any lawyers out there?

  26. Getting up to speed on this issue by Animats · · Score: 2
    Many of the posters need to do some background reading on the subject. See The Home Recording Rights Coalition site for background on this and a number of related issues. It's important to see just how far the movie industry wants to go. Plans are underway to prevent by technical means the copying of essentially all commercially-produced video and audio in all media, be it Internet, removable media, cable, or broadcast. Check out the SDMI site.

    On a related note, SDMI, which exists solely to manage copy protection for music, managed to let the certificate expire on their secure web server. Remember, these guys want to manage the keys to all the audio content in the world. Here's their current certificate:

    This Certificate belongs to:
    www.sdmi.org
    EMS
    Global Integrity
    La Jolla, California, US
    This Certificate was issued by:
    Secure Server Certification Authority
    RSA Data Security, Inc.
    US
    Serial Number: 1D:37:FE:F6:B9:A4:C0:91:41:B1:F9:D7:1C:43:A2:A4
    This Certificate is valid from Wed Jan 06, 1999 to Fri Jan 07, 2000

    Certificate Fingerprint: DF:EE:C6:82:A9:E2:8E:27:91:5F:8E:ED:6D:06:0D:FB