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Real's Injunction Against Streambox Lifted
Zippy the Pinhead writes with some welcome news: "Remember the RealNetworks vs. Streambox case a few weeks ago? Well, the judge has decided to lift the injunction against Streambox. They can now resume developing and selling their nifty RealAudio tools."
JUST ANOTHER REPEAT, BRAH
BRAH, YOUR ASS IS GRASS, AN IM GONNA SMOKE IT!
JUST ANOTHER REPEAT, JUST ANOTHER REPEAT, BRAH, JUST ANOTHER REPEAT
THEN WHAT'S THAT MAKE MY DICK?
Doesn't appear to be in the dictionaries, unless you are refering to the cloth contraption some females use to fight gravity on the front of their upper body....in which case you don't need the H
MOO
WILL DO, BRAH!
DINK
DID YOU SAY, "PINK?"
According to a Register article, http://www.theregister.co.uk/index.html RealNetworks actually won. "The latest ban prevents Streambox marketing and selling either product until RealNetworks' copyright infringement case against it comes to trial and that trial is completed. That point is unlikely to be reached before this time next year."
was in fact a port of a Linux program, which was actually a collection of public domain codecs which RealAudio used (GSM stuff). Yeah, their 'proprietary format' wasn't proprietary. G2 is tho.
SAD BUT TRUE, BRAH, SAD BUT TRUE
VERY FUNNY, BRAH, VERY FUNNYT!
They're right here!
And when you're done with that, check out this!
HAVE FUN. SMARGLE YOU LATER!
Good sir, the difference between trolling and annoyance is not as nearly a fine a line as other social endeavors. All capitals and "brah", on every post in the article, do not a fine troller make. Even the other trollers are embarrased by your example; not even the venerable segfault would accept such a post.
I believe I speak for the rest of the trollers in Slashdot when I ask that if you will not at least come up with original, or at least not all-caps, content, that you not troll every comment, only a few times per article. This will keep the noise ratio on Slashdot to a microphone level, rather than a large concert PA system.
HEY GO EASY ON HEMOS! HES SPECIAL TO ME, BRAH, AS HE SHOULD BE TO YOU
GOOD WORK, BRAH!
WEE NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN THIS ORGANIZATION
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT?
METHINKS THIS FELLOW IS DUMB IN THE HEAD!
NOISE, NOISE, NOISE!
Hemos doesn't speak for them all!
What about the rest?
PLEASE CONTINUE WITH THE REVOLUTION. THANK YOU.
You may now look to your right.
- smargle frep
NERD!
BRAH, I AM SHOCKED THAT YOU CALL ME A TROLL!!!
I AM NO TROLL, BRAH, JUST A HEMOS FAN!!
IS THAT SO WRONG, BRAH?
BRAH, THIS IS A BORING TOPIC ANYWAY, AND WE ARE TRYING TO DESTROY SLASHDOT
I AM NOYT A HAPPY TROLL, BRAH, LIKE MEEPT AND NATALIE PORTMAN BUT AN EVIL ONE. DEEL WITH IT
BUT....
/evil/ folks!
Simple file conversion does not concern me much.
The much more important (and as of yet unresolved) question centers on who is/will-be in control of the data streaming into my machine.
This stuff is
Why is it in any way acceptable for "IP" lawyers to dictate when I may or may-not spool incoming packets to secondary storage?
These claims of "reverse-engineering" are simply a stopgap measure: RA's original "content security thru obscurity" has been thwarted so they want to court to put a stop to it before the perceived value of their streaming system(s) (likewise their own value as a company) drops substantially.
Get involved!! Think ICECast. We need more open source projects that address the streaming media future.
If you had read either press release rather than just blindly posting, you would have noticed that both Real's and Streambox's press releases do indeed refer to the same court proceeding, the one that happened on the 18th. The judge granted two out of three of Real's motions while denying the third, so both sides claimed victory.
Quite frankly, I can't fathom why you don't get moderated DOWN for this.
THE DAY IS STILL YOUNG, BRAH.
SORRY, BRAH, BUT IT WASN'T TO BE.
WELL BRAH, THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT (HEH HEH) IS THAT CMDRTACO HAS REBUKED ME JONKATZ HAS REJECTED ME, ROBLIMO HAS REBUFFED ME, AND COWBOYNEAL HAS REFUSED TO KNEEL, BRAH.
ONLY ME AND BATES SHARE THAT SOMETHING MAGIC, BRAH
SORRY BRAH, BUT THATS REDUNDDANT!!
SORRY TO TAKE YOUR DREAM FROM YOU, BRAH. ILL DO BETTER NEXT TIME
THANKS, BRAH, NOW LEMME CLEAN MYSELF UP
WHERE ARE TRHOSE PAPER TOWELS?
THE INVASION IS UNDERWAY, BRAH!
THANKS FOR THE USELESS INFORMATION
MOVE ALONG, NOW, MOVE ALONG
SORRY, BRAH, HEMOS DOESNT USE ONE
BRAH, YOU JUST CAN'T BEAT THE CORPORATE WORLD. DONT EVEN TRY!!
JUST ANOTHER REPEAT
Zippy the Pinhead writes with some welcome news:
.. Now I think I just reached the
Remember the RealNetworks vs. Now I'm having INSIPID THOUGHTS about the beautiful, round wives of HOLLYWOOD MOVIE MOGULS encased in
PLEXIGLASS CARS and being approached by SMALL BOYS selling FRUIT.. Streambox case a few weeks
ago? Well, the judge has decided to lift the injunction against Streambox.
state of HYPERTENSION that comes JUST BEFORE you see the TOTAL at the SAFEWAY CHECKOUT COUNTER! They can
now resume developing and selling their nifty RealAudio tools."
...It's the only way to read slashdot!
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
http://www.streambox.com/Products/press.asp
Folks, when I posted this, I only had the Streambox press release. After reading the RealNetworks release and some further comments from Alex (Streambox programmer), here's the rough truth:
Streambox has 3 products: Ripper, which converts RA to MP3 or WAV, VCR, which records PNM, RTSP and WMA streams, and Ferret, which supplements or replaces the Snap! search box in RealPlayer.
The Injunction against Ripper has been lifted. This is a Good Thing 'cos it was a test of how much control Real has over the format of streams under the DMCA.
The injunction against working on Ferret and VCR has been lifted. Since VCR's beta, an injunction against sales is immaterial.
The next step is to find out exactly where VCR crosses the line, legally. Alex sez that the big question is currently over whether VCR should have to honor the copy-protect bit in Real streams. After all, a tape deck or TotalRecorder doesn't. Meanwhile, StreamBox is working on versions of VCR with RealMedia support disabled and with copy-protect enabled.
Watch this case! This is a significant test of the DMCA's reverse-engineering provisions.
So, anyone wanna work on an open-source RTSP downloader? There's sample code...
What a surprise! Security via concensus doesn't work. Just because you and your buddies decide to repsect a bit in a file, don't be surprised when others don't. And people will still write streaming content to disk, even though you don't want them to ( oh my god he's recording off the radio! ). Without decent encryption there's no hope of restricting access. Even then, if software is involved you just have to give up hope. I can't think of any copy protrection scheme that was effective without being incredibly restrictive.
This and the DVD debacle are only the latest indications that stupidity is still rampant in the marketplace. I know I'm breathing a sigh of relief.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
It's completely bogus, in my (non-lawyer) opinion, since the courts originated the fair use defense and have long held that they alone decide
what "fair use" means as a part of fundamental public policy (this goes back to the 1830s), and the fair use exception in Title 17 is merely a codification of the existing precedent at the time. In particular, Congress doesn't have the power, constitutionally, to define away fair use, or to prevent its claim.
I'll be interested to see the court's ruling in writing (a representative of Real has said they'll be posting it as soon as they've got it transcribed).
Lynn
...does anyone know where I can get these utilities? I followed the link provided by Hemos, but Streambox apparently hasn't updated it yet. Is there another link?
"Nobody owns the fucking words man." - James Dean
I think this is actually their most interesting product. I really hate it when i can hardly understand anything in an interview just because the streaming is slow. With VCR i could at least download it and listen to it in an appropriate quality. For pirating stuff this is useless anyway as the quality sucks big time.
So, does an "inofficial" link exist?
-- Remove 'ABC' for real email address.
Did you even read what you pasted?
"RealNetworks Wins Preliminary Injunction in Landmark Case Protecting Copyright Holders in the Digital Age"
This is absolutely true.... and happened WEEKS ago! _Preliminary_ injuntion. This story is about the court case AFTER this injunction succeeded. In the court case which happened yesterday (the 18th), Streambox won. They are not 2 competing press releases, they are 2 press releases about 2 different events.
Esperandi
I can't fathom how you got moderated up for this.
If the order has been lifted how come you still can't get the injuctioned products at the company web page?
The lawsuit really scared me... if RN wins in court, do I have to give up my conversion tool? Nice to see the courts smiling in the right direction. Thanks for posting the news on /. and improving my sanity for today.
Hey lets be fair here, the judicial system has made a couple of good rulings lately. But if you consider the number of rulings they have to make, and assume a heterozygous distribution of judicial idiocy. Combine it with an increasingly loud /. response to horrendous mistakes. And the increased need for judges to be reelected. Use a chi-square test and it is obvious, they are tossing us a bone. So don't be convinced they have changed yet. A moron can still get a couple right just by guessing.
Nate Custer
"The poet presents his thoughts festively, on the carriage of rhythm; usually because they could not walk" Nietzsche
Hey lets be fair here, the judicial system has made a couple of good rulings lately. But if you consider the number of rulings they have to make, and assume a heterozygous distribution of judicial idiocy. Combine it with an increasingly loud /. response to horrendous mistakes. And the increased need for judges to be reelected. Use a chi-square test and it is obvious, they are tossing us a bone. So don't be convinced they have changed yet. A moron can still get a couple right just by guessing.
Nate Custer
"The poet presents his thoughts festively, on the carriage of rhythm; usually because they could not walk" Nietzsche
Ignore this post GenCuster
"The poet presents his thoughts festively, on the carriage of rhythm; usually because they could not walk" Nietzsche
if(strength_of_case[Prosecution] * money_spent_on_case[Prosecution] > strength_of_case[Defence] * money_spent_on_case[Defence])
{
}
if(strength_of_case[Prosecution] * money_spent_on_case[Prosecution] > strength_of_case[Defence] * money_spent_on_case[Defence])
{
win(Prosecution);
strength_of_case[Prosecution]--;
}
else
{
win(Defence);
strength_of_case[Prosecution]++;
}
strength_of_case[Prosecution] is decremented at each iteration if prosecution wins and incremented if they lose.
money_spent_on_case[Prosecution] is set to compensate. so strength_of_case[Prosecution] * money_spent_on_case[Prosecution]is roughly constant
money_spent_on_case[Defence] is a user defined value. Recently the users have been setting this abnormally high.
Anyway, this shows that equilibrium will eventually be reached at a point where the two values are roughly equal.
In an article from Jan. 3 at The Standard, it says:
The court also ordered that RealNetworks post a $1 million bond should the court later find that the restraining order was wrongfully issued.
So, does this mean Streambox will be receiving a large cash infusion?
Is a million enough to effect RealNetwork's operations?
--
He lives in a world where those who do not run the client software of the omnipresent meme are unacceptable.
Bloomberg News is reporting that Real *won* the injunction.
2 36.html?tag=st.ne.ron.lthd.10 05-200-1526236
http://technews.netscape.com/news/0-1005-200-1526
Now, which is it?
--
He lives in a world where those who do not run the client software of the omnipresent meme are unacceptable.
http://www.realnetworks.com/company/pressroom/inde x.html Dated January 18, 2000 "RealNetworks Wins Preliminary Injunction in Landmark Case Protecting Copyright Holders in the Digital Age "
In a Standard article (found and cited by Yardley in post #58) there is a quote from a content provider:
"Streambox has been stealing our streams for quite some time," says Opher Mizrahi, CEO of MovieFlix.com. "It's costing us bandwidth and we don't get the benefit of the registration. They can link to our movies illegally, and there's no reason to come to the MovieFlix Web site," he adds.
Streambox denies the theft of course, but what is the guy talking about? Deep linking? Or does the RA player provide them with some kind of statistics?
I have not used these players, but I can't see why an RA user would not be able to do the same thing as with a Streambox player.
Lars
__
Reality or nothing.
When I first started reading the description of their Streakbox Ripper product, I thought, "Cool, I will finally have a way of listening to RealAudio streams," since on the platform that I use (Amiga), the only RealAudio decoders we have are based on stolen(?) code that is years out-of-date. That's the problem with closed proprietary formats like RealAudio (and DVD too, as you Linux folks have learned) -- minority platforms have a snowball's chance in hell of getting support. In contrast, as long as there's a published standard to code to, the Amiga is often one of the first on the scene with an implementation, and even rises above all the rest in some cases (check out our web browsers!).
So, as you can imagine, a tool that converts the unplayable RealAudio format to a playable one (e.g. MP3) seems like a useful thing to have.
Then I saw "System Requirements: Windows 95, 98, or NT". I don't get it. Isn't Windoze the main supported platform by RealAudio? It seems like this would be the last platform that needs another RealAudio decoder, since Windoze already has an implementation from RealNetworks themselves.
Now, I didn't really expect to see them selling an Amiga version, but wouldn't a program like this be most useful on whatever platforms that RealNetworks ignores?
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Is there a link to anything about the order being lifted, or are we just taking your word for it?
From the Streambox press release once RealNetworks filed the lawsuit:
Oh, no! This is terrible! You mean, people may actually be able to listen to something without using RealPlayer? My God!
I don't know about you, but I'll avoid using RealPlayer every chance I get. Don't you just *love* those automatic links it features? Hey, while I'm at it, why don't I install a copy of RealJukebox sans the privacy patch so those RealNetwork yahoos can track what I'm listening to. Look ma, no RealPlayer!
--------
Oscarfish.com: tropical fish with attitude. Way t
Between this and the judge that threw out the DVD injunction (the first one at least), it seems like our judicial system may finally, in fact, "get it"!
The ABSTRUSE One
Jason Byrons
"You all laugh at me because I'm different
I laugh at you because you're a
According to a message on the "Toolkit" page of the site.
:-)
Expect the server to be Slashdotted into oblivion at about 11:00.01...
... and then watch out for all the messages from posters asking where the Linux versions are
A little planning goes a long way...
I think I see what's going on here. It looks like the judge issued an injunction against VCR and Ferret, but not against Ripper. Hence, Real decides to claim victory on the best-two-of-three principle, while Streambox claims victory because they can still sell Ripper. Notice that they only talked about "continuing development" on VCR and Ferret, not about releasing them.
-shrug- It's a start, since this yanks away some of Real's content control.
Alik
RealNetworks Wins Preliminary Injunction in Landmark Case Protecting Copyright Holders in the Digital Age
Court Bars Streambox From Distributing or Marketing Streambox VCR And Streambox Ferret
SEATTLE, Jan. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- RealNetworks Inc. (Nasdaq: RNWK - news), the recognized leader in media delivery on the Internet, said today it is pleased that the Honorable Marsha Pechman of the Western Circuit Court in Washington has granted RealNetworks' motion for a preliminary injunction barring Streambox from distributing products that illegally circumvent the copyright protection in RealAudio and RealVideo. Specifically, Streambox is enjoined from marketing and distributing the Streambox VCR, which records live streams against the wishes of copyright holders, and the Streambox Ferret, which interferes with the appearance and functionality of the RealPlayer®.
``We are very pleased that the court has upheld the basic principle that it is illegal to circumvent copy protection mechanisms in order to record streams against the wishes of copyright holders,'' said Alex Alben, vice president of Government Affairs, RealNetworks, Inc. ``RealNetworks brought this suit to protect the copyright of the content holders who trust RealNetworks' software and systems to not only provide a high quality user experience, but also to provide it in a format that is protected from duplication. We look forward to the opportunity to argue the remaining issues in court and feel confident that we will prevail on all counts at the end of the day.''
``I'm pleased by the Judge's ruling,'' said Cary Sherman, senior executive vice president and general counsel, Recording Industry Association of America, Inc. ``The RIAA fully supports RealNetworks' position in this case for the sake of our members and a legitimate marketplace. RealNetworks' technology is a success in large measure because it protects creators at the same time it givers consumers access to the music they want. Streambox's hacking tools rob creators of the very protection RealNetworks offers. That is precisely what the DMCA was intended to prevent.'' The RIAA members own 90% of legitimate sound recordings produced in the United States.
``Liquid Audio strongly supports RealNetworks' legal efforts to protect the millions of copyright holders around the world by keeping Internet music secure,'' said Gerry Kearby, chief executive officer of Liquid Audio, Inc. (Nasdaq: LQID - news). ``As pioneers in secure Internet music delivery, we firmly believe in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act as a key legal protection that will help ensure the development of a digital music economy.''
``The decision handed down today illustrates the importance of companies being able to adequately protect their intellectual property through technological means,'' said Keith Kupferschmid, Intellectual Property Counsel for the Software & Information Industry Association. ``Congress clearly respects the technological efforts being made by companies to protect their goods and services online and intended to protect these efforts when it passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Today's decision demonstrates that the courts' also understand importance of the circumvention protections provided in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.''
The order today addresses two products marketed by Streambox: Streambox VCR, which circumvents RealNetworks' copyright protection measures to save streams to disk; and the Streambox Ferret, which interferes with the appearance and functionality of the RealPlayer® and redirects end-users of the RealPlayer search bar to Streambox's search site instead of the Snap!.com search site. A third product, the Streambox Ripper, which affects only files that have already been stored locally on a user's computer, was not included in the preliminary injunction. All three products were initially enjoined by a temporary restraining order entered on December 23, 1999.
For more information: http://www.realnetworks.com/company/pressroom/stre ambox_litigation.html.
Here's the press release in question:
For Immediate Release
January 18, 2000
Landmark Decision
Favors Streambox
Judge's decision rules in favor of Streambox to continue sale and distribution of its most popular product, Streambox Ripper.
Decision allows consumers and content owners choice
in streaming media formats.
SEATTLE - Based on the ruling by U.S. District Court in Seattle today, Streambox, Inc. (http://www.streambox.com), a start-up with leading streaming technologies for audio and video files on the Internet, may now continue selling its most popular software product, Streambox Ripper. This decision, made by the Honorable Marsha Pechman, affirmed the right of consumers and content owners to convert RealNetworks streaming media into their format of preference. Ripper enables consumers and content providers to convert RealNetworks files into Windows Media, MP3 and WAV formats.
Today's ruling repeals a restraining order filed by RealNetworks (RNWK), which alleged that Ripper caused irreparable harm to RealNetworks.
"This is a big win, not just for Streambox, but for the entire Internet community," said Robert Hildeman, chief executive officer of Streambox. "Streambox feels that the Court made the right decision to allow consumers to be able to make their own choice on how streaming content is controlled by granting Streambox permission to sell and distribute Streambox Ripper. The Internet has always been about open systems, and we're proud to be a part of this landmark ruling."
Streambox will continue sales of Streambox Ripper on its website in addition to continuing development of enjoined products (Streambox VCR and Ferret plug-in) that put the control of streaming content in the hands of copyright owners as well as consumers.
"We will formally request RealNetworks to release the specifications on their copy switch, so we can include it into Streambox VCR," said Robert Hildeman. "Streambox strongly supports copyrighted content. We trust RealNetworks will come through and release this information so that all content owners can choose whether to turn the switch on or off. Previously, Real has chosen to keep this information proprietary."