GNUstep 0.6.5 freeze

teferi writes " The GNUstep project, a GPL'ed implementation of the OpenStep environment, has gone into a code freeze for the 0.6.5 release. The base library is 94% done, and the various parts, including the DPS/DGS graphics backend are coming along well. "

Comments

Re:wmaker?

[jcr]

GnuSTEP aims to re-implement the entire OpenStep spec under GPL. When this is done, you can expect about 200 NeXT apps to suddenly appear on Linux, FreeBSD, etc.

-jcr

NEXTSTEP / Mac OS X relationship?

[Erich]

What is the relationship between NEXTSTEP and the new MacOS X? If the OpenSTEP project is successful in making a NEXTSTEP-compatable system, would it be trivial to compile the new MacOS stuff to run under it?

Re:NEXTSTEP / Mac OS X relationship?

[smart2000]

Mac OS X has several programming interfaces, one of which is called Cocoa. Depending on what you combine with it, this is also similar to OS X Server, Rhapsody, Yellow Box, OpenStep and NeXTSTEP.

NeXTSTEP (an operating system) was first, and had a damn good programming model, but originally only ran on NeXT's hardware.(which was pretty sweet, but also pretty expensive) (and also one version on RS/6000, running on AIX, again fast, sweet and expensive.).

NeXT then began making moves to dump hardware and make NeXTSTEP available on Intel hardware.

Right around that time, they also started development on OpenStep, which has a very similar object hierarchy to NeXTSTEP, but uses a better object allocation model, and has renamed many methods to make the API "cleaner".

To move an application from NeXTSTEP to OpenStep, you ran a series of scripts that would convert to the new API.

OpenStep was made to run on several OS's including Solaris, Mach (from NeXT), HP/UX and Windows. OpenStep meant two things at the time, both the API and the NeXT delivered operating system as a whole. One was called OpenStep, and the other was OPENSTEP. You guess which was which.

Any ways, Apple bought NeXT so that the NeXT management team could take over Apple, and now all that API is part of OSX Server and soon OSX.

It is easy to move a program from NeXTSTEP to OpenStep or OSX Server. I moved Xox, an arcade style shooter with a few days of work.

It is trivial to move the average program from OpenStep or OSX Server to GNUstep. In many cases the same code compiles on both.

We moved our entire development over to GNUstep, and haven't looked back yet. We found the Foundation kit to be more stable than Apple's and easier to explore.

Re:That's great...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are the applications?

Very simple.. Once GNUstep is 100% done, it should
require little effort to port tons of NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/MacOS X
apps to GNUstep... The process is already on its way to port
some of those.

Not to mention the fact that ProjectCenter.app, once completed, will
provide a really nice environment to create new GNUstep apps with
a minimum of effort. (kinda like Steve Jobs demonstrating how to
create a word processor in 5 minutes using NeXSTEP's ProjectBuilder.app).

The final word is that the applications are just around the corner...

Cheers.

This is AC of Borg.
Accounts are futile;
Trolls are irrelevant.
You will be slashdotted.

they are there, just...

[Anonymous Coward]

waiting to run. The problem is that GNUStep hasn't reached a point where GUI OpenStep apps can just be compiled. There are too many inconsistencies and too much not done yet in the AppKit Foundation. But once it's done, in theory any openstep app should be able to be run on linux. They also run on MacOSX, and Windows. OpenStep is the cross platform app development environment that Java wishes it was. A JVM is stupid, it slows things down to much especially considering what a hog swing is, and you have to use swing to do decent interfaces. OpenStep got it right. The basic philosophy of OpenStep is write once, compile anywhere as opposed to Java's compile once, run anywhere...

Ah yes!

[Yarn]

I remember lusting after NeXT boxes when I was like 12 after we got our 1st 386, they looked so sweet, and the UI was so *smart*. Consistancy is something that almost everyone agrees is a problem with X, but plans to make is nice always seem to fall over. CDE is/was hell (imo), gnome and kde are diverging and converging at the same time, and I'm getting confused. SAVE ME GNUSTEP :)

Re:Ah yes!

[scrytch]

Sun, of course, also uses CDE. It's also pretty much universally hated there. It does do some things well that KDE still doesn't quite manage, and gnome doesn't even try for. But overall it's ugly, klunky, and unfriendly. The file manager is a joke (except when you want to set ACL's, there it's the best interface going). The mail client is primitive (except it does IMAP perfectly, something free email clients are always lagging on). And it uses the classic motif look, which can only be described as "boxy but good" if only it were good.

All that said, CDE does some things right. Like a web browser icon on the panel that runs sdtwebclient, which acts as the equivalent of the netscape-wrapper script for netscape or hotjava. The panel isn't very flexible, but it's far more intuitive and easy to navigate than any START button or knockoff thereof.

I'd love KDE on Solaris if it were actually as functional as CDE. Give it a year or two and it'll probably get there, faster than CDE, for sure.

Re:Another (L)GPLed project that will never finish

[smart2000]

Anyone who would devote any time to GNUstep is an idiot.

Please, tell us what you really think. I devote time to GNUstep because it allows me to quickly write cool software that we need and distribute it on commodity hardware that runs an operating system that supports the cards and features we need. I make money doing this. How does this make me an idiot?

It is possible to work with GPLed software for the wrong, and wasteful reasons. But just choosing GNUstep over the competition doesn't make one an idiot.

This project will clearly never finish.

Probably so. Like most free software it will continue to live and improve each day. However they have met several important goals, and they stuff the code as it stands is useful TODAY.

GNUstep is in the same hopeless position as projects such as GNU Classpath, forever trying to catch up to an evolving standard.

At the time GNUstep started, OpenStep was supposed to become a certified standard. Since then Apple bought NeXT (who saw it coming?) and is trying to take their existing code base and justify the purchase. Whether they actually ship it is another question.

.. snip.. The bizarre GNUstep mission page claims that the project will accomodate both commercial and free software. How's that supposed to happen with GPLed libraries?

The libraries are LPGL, not GPL. There is nothing in the GPL that prevents commercial projects from using the source. There is nothing that requires them to distribute the source unless they distribute binaries. For MCCA users, there is no conflict

GNUstep clarification: Support GNUstep!

[RevAaron]

People seem to be kind of confused about what GNUstep is and implies, I'll try to clarify:

GNUstep is: an implementation of the OpenStep API. The OpenStep API makes it quite easy to develop programs for it, as the developer doesn't have to worry about the little things, and spend their time innovating and writing great code . It's cross-platform (between Windows w/ the YellowBox, anything running GNUstep, Mac OS X/Cocoa). It's a dream to develop with, and the Objective-C language, to me, is much nicer to use than C++ (although I think there's wrappers for Java, and perhaps C/C++).

GNUstep will: Allow for easy ports to platforms running GNUstep from source written under OpenStep, Rhapsody, or Mac OS X (using Cocoa/YellowBox). This encourages cross-platform development, and hopefully will help bring many apps to Mac OS X/Cocoa, as well as Linux/FreeBSD/etc.

GNUstep is not: a window manager or a desktop environment. Desktop environments can (and quite easily) built with GNUstep. In fact, someone is working on a NeXT-like file manager right now, which is working and developed under OpenStep, and easily recompiled on a FreeBSD box using GNUstep.



For more information, see the GNUstep website or the unofficial GNUstep website, both of which have plenty of information on the OpenStep spec, and where GNUstep is going.

In short-- definately check it out!

Aaron