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Itsy Specs Updated
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:53:48 -0800
From: Deborah Wallach [kerr@pa.dec.com]
To: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk
Subject: Itsy schematics and updated Linux software available
In order to promote collaboration and to advance the state of pocket computing research, Compaq Computer Corporation's Research Laboratories are making available the schematics and manufacturing information for the Itsy V1.5 Pocket Computer. The Itsy is a flexible research platform, based on the StrongARM 1100, intended to enable hardware and software research in pocket computing. It is a small, low-power handheld device with a highly flexible interface, designed to encourage the development of innovative research projects, such as novel user interfaces, new applications, power management techniques, hardware extensions, etc. The information we are making available includes the hardware specifications, a low level monitor, and the Linux source code for the Itsy.
More information on the distribution
Deborah Wallach
Western Research Laboratory
Compaq Computer Corporation
http://crl.rese arch.compaq.com/downloads/register.cgi?download=It sy
Would you rather they didn't make the results of their own R&D on the web. They're not forcing you to share changes that you might make to the specs. You have it the wrong way around: They're doing you're R&D! -AX
...these. To bad it appears to be vapor(hard)ware (WTF is the term for vapor-type hardware?). Cpt_Kirks
It's not a touchscreen, but Motorola has a pretty slick little monitor on their site.. I forget what they call it, but it's not the typical tft type display. It might be worth a look.
I don't do much electronics work, but the Newark Electronics catalog has a few LCD screens listed.. B&W screens from 120x64 @ $140 to 240x128 @ $285 and active matrix color vga screens from 160x220 (4" diag) @ $680 to 640x480 (10.4" diag) @ $1200.. I'll bet you can find much better prices than this, but it's a place to start.
It's good of Compaq to make this information available, but it would have been of far more use if they had made available a kit for this unit.
I would be quite happy to purchase one or two units knowing full well that it is an experimental concept machine, and that I cannot get any official support from Compaq, etc. At least I would have something that's *working* as opposed to a bunch of black ink on paper =:)
I just looked through my archives and I don't have the schematics. But the thing is really easy to use. They have a development kit that includes a fully built system using all the peripherals and they documented the design completely. We just copied their design leaving off the pieces we didn't need.
Here is a link to Intel's hardware development tools
Here is a link to build your Linux cross-development tools
-tim
> Yay! Now anybody want to look into turning these into a 2.3/2.4 kernel mod?
Go ask the folks at www.netwinder.org (the other cool StrongARM/Linux box).
VMS RoXorZ!
Between the fact that, looking at the rest of your and killbill's discussion, this project is more a research prototype than a do it yourself pocket computer, and that Compaq owns this project, why not start a seperate open project of your one (you the reader as well as torpor). Design it from common components, open a CVS with the diagrams and specs in it in some open format, and you have your OpenPocketBook, or whatever jargonese you may wish to call it.
In fact, why not start OpenHardware.Org. That could be a cool project. Specs on how people can build their own boxes, from 386 to high-end Pentium, homebake peripherals, whatever people might be interested in. (The AX84 Guitar Amp Project is a non-computing project that could fit in this framework (downloadable homebrew tube amp schematics), with the goals of cooperative design and the promotion of learning and camaraderie). The goals would be similar to opensource - give control back to users and make better stuff by leveraging collective knowledge.
postmoderncore - art and creation are a higher purpose
Noone here can make one, I doubt that any of you here has access to any SMD re-work stations, the chips on the board in small quantities,a way to make a 12 layer circutboard. etc... What a joke. It was just to make people go .ohhhhhh pretty pictures.....
I really miss the days when any piece of electronics you could buy would come with schematics... And they're still kind of useful, even now that everything uses 4+ layer circut boards.
I would hate to say this in a /. forum but the device your looking for exists(minus the speach recognician). The Casio E-100. Too bad you have the Linux requirement. Side note: Everybody bashes CE for having too many features (simple is better) but everyone (palm e.g. color screen) is adding them. I just don't get it. And yes I know everbody says that CE is too buggy.
I've been following the PDA trail recently because I, like most nerds, want toys that I don't really need but if it runs linux I probably have a use for it. The Itsy is no exception. /. about new uses for portable devices. Things I would like to see include color LCD screens, speech recognition, large flash chips for holding digital audio (and maybe even video), a headphone jack, and possibly a GPS receiver. If I can have a small device that not only plays tetris but can record audio and video as well as play MP3s and tell me where I am, I would be a happy camper. I truly believe that the Itsy is going to take me there.
This follows an article recently posted to
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Kudos to them for opening up the hardware and software designs (open in the "now I know what they did" sense but not the GNU sense, although Stallman himself insists on creating an arbitrary (and in my mind artificial) distinction between hardware IP and software IP, but I digress)...
Anyway, good for them for sharing, but they are using an LCD and touch screen that is unavailable commercially. What good is that?
If they were serious, they should redesign it to use an available module, or offer modules for sale from their site for a reasonable charge.
Although realistically, given what I suspect is a lot of surface mount components and very small trace widths, and probably multi-layer PC boards, I doubt many people will be throwing together one of these in their basement...
It would be nice if they offered an "unsupported" Itsy kit with all necessary parts, but I guess I can't complain about people giving me information.
Bill
Mathematically impossible requirements are technically not against policy.
Wow /. !
Somebody actually criticizing open-source in
That's a new one!
gritsy specs released: corn, water, butter. pour a hot bowl of them down your pants today. thank you.
Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Anomalous: deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Canard: a false or unfounded repor
www.morphyone.org has some specs on open-source, 486-based hardware. I've d/l'd the specs and am startingto build the lovely lil' bastard.
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
What would the advantages of putting an ARM processor over a Crusoe in a PDA? If the Crusoe can morph any instruction set, wouldn't it be able to run ARM instructions? How would a company benefit from using ARM chips in their PDAs, other than a slight decrease in power consumption?
Well, for a start, the SA-1100 uses less power at 200MHz (about 200mW) than the Crusoe at 400MHz (about 1W). Even given that power consumption tends to go as voltage squared, and that still means that the SA core gives you more MIPS/Watt. Secondly, unless the Crusoe RISC core matches well against the SA core in as much as having virtually equivalent instructions, emulating a RISC instruction set with a different RISC instruction set can lead to performance hang ups. For example, the ARM chips tend to have both conditional instructions and barrel shifters on each instruction, so while they are single issue they can end up doing several things for instruction. (Rusty ARM code warning alert!!)
e.g. ADDS r1,r1,r2 LSR#2; MOVNE r0, r1 LSL#4
Add r1 and r2DIV4 , place in r1 and set flags on result of sum. If negative flags set, move r1 shifted left 4 into r0.
As you can see, if for each of these instructions, you end up firing off two or three Crusoe RISC core instructions, performance can be degraded to a level at around a third of the base clock speed. Similar problems do not occur to the same extent with CISC, as you have more scope to interpret and pass on RISC instructions from CISC ones (as I believe AMD do in their intel compatible chips).
The other thing that springs to mind is that if Linux is your target OS, then either Crusoe running Linux under x86 emulation or a StrongARM running ARMLinux will fit your requirements well, so if battery life is your ultimate goal, then the StrongARM hardware may fit your requirements better.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
You can't build and sell it and if you build one and modify it somehow (fruity colors?) they get the right to sell your product without compensation. It ain't very open.
Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Anomalous: deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Canard: a false or unfounded repor
LCD displays can be had on the surplus market pretty cheaply...
I'm pretty sure I've picked up more than one graphic module
for under $15 from local dealers alone.
FWIW EIO has a few modules:
http://www.eio.com/lcdprodt.htm
=-=-=-=-=-=
"...You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals/
so let's do it like they do on the Discovery channel..."
I've been following the Itsy project for some time now as a "civilian", and was fortunate enough to have been an engineer on the project early on. I've read a great many of the complaints and suggestions here on /. regarding the schematics and software.
/.
Last month I contacted an old collegue of mine who still works on the project, (Hi Jimbo!) and together we began, using Wine source as a base, porting the Win32 API to Itsy. We are calling the project PORTMAN.
I'm not sure if anyone actually checked out the linked schematics, but the bus of Itsy is actually pretty interesting. It features a proprietary (I know that's an evil word) technology called Timed Rerouting Online Linear-Link System (TROLLS). This allows PORTMAN to function efficiently, bypassing a slight bottleneck in the output system. (The bottleneck I refer to is caused by Grain Reciprocating Isolinear Transit Sensors (GRITS).
Before TROLLS, GRITS had the terrible effect of petrifying PORTMAN. That problem is no more. Thank God for TROLLS.
I hope this was helpful. I am always delighted to help my fellow engineers here on
General Chalupa
SELL THEM TO US!!!!!!
WE WANT TO BUY THEM!!!! WE WANT TO SPEND MONEY!!!! YOUR ADVERTISING BUDGET WILL BE A MAIL MESSAGE TO LINUX-KERNEL!!!!!
ahem
thanks
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
However, you don't need any of that to make a SA1100 based system. The empeg is SA1100 based. We didn't use any development boards, we just wired up the cpu and it worked - as the SA1100 is so highly integrated, there's only *one* way to wire ram chips to it, *one* way to wire a flash chip to it and *one* way to hook up serial ports and LCD. There's nothing magic about the itsy which anyone competent enough to fabricate & build an itsy from the designs couldn't simply do themselves. I mean, if they gave you the Orcad files for it, what do you plan to do - buy orcad? The schematic editor alone costs over $1000. The problem is, building computers simply isn't hobbyist compatible anymore. 0.5mm pitch SMT components? You need a binocular microscope really, even if you can mount them chips using a fine tipped soldering iron, SMT solder (silver loaded stuff), and lots of SMT rework flux. That's not even considering how hard it is to *get* the parts - tried getting EDO ram? 3.3v stuff? In small quantities? You can't get these bits (including the SA) just off the shelf, though you can get most of the discretes through some of the better (catalogue-publishing) distributors such as Farnell. PCBs? You're looking at maybe $1000 minimum for one board set on long turnaround. Compaq have obviously been asked by a lot of universities for prototypes, so they've released the designs so research departments can make a few and do software development. It's not a hardware development platform - it's too small to prototype new stuff on. Hugo empeg
small world...
The only Good System is a Sound System
Just ask if they'll give you permission to build your limited run. A few hundred wouldn't affect their company income much. They'd be letting you do a market test and there'd be several hundred more developers out here tinkering with the devices. This license forbids your doing this, so simply try to get a different license from them.
Every time we hear something about this someone or another talks about building them. Are /.'ers willing to put money on the table? How about in escrow? Anyone willing to colaborate on a project to build a handheld from the SA-1100?
I am looking for SERIOUS people here. You must be willing to dedicate a significant ammount of time toward helping the project or willing to put money on the table to see it happen. There are ways to see this done, but we would have to build a lot of them. Possibly as high as a thousand units to get the parts and such at a reasonable cost.
If you are only willing to buy one but don't want to help in the development effort, I want to hear from you too. Please email me how much you would consider paying for such a device and what specs you want it to have (RAM/Flash size, screen size/type, etc.).
If I hear from enough people to make it worth building, I'll dust off my unfinished SA design and build a prototype. The info on the unit will be published under an Open-Source compatible license and will include all design info required to build the devices.
The email address is real, all interested parties please contact me ASAP so I can get an idea of how many are really interested.
well it does beats the 1W in power saveing of transmeta hell ARM works flat out @ 1W
I notice alot of the linux PDAs are arm powered
a big THANKs to ALEX for that
regards
john
a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
In other words: "Please do our R&D for us for free. That way we don't have to pay and expensive engineers to do it for us. We are only a multi-billion dollar corporation trying to make a little money here."
Hell, they USED to at least give us free engineering samples of the hardware.
So, who would be willing to organize a limited run production of these devices for the community? I'd be willing to pay 700 or so for an Itsy.
They seem like near-perfect development platforms, great for working on new interfaces, or adapting them to wearable uses. I want one.. *whine*
-Fixer
"Avast! Prepare for the rodgering!" THWACK! "Arrr.. me nards.."
Where would one purtchess parts to build things and general electronics in Salt Lake City, Utah? Thanks in advance.
It's too bad that a company like that, who already makes computers, don't have this thing in production.
I appreciate that they make all of the info available for those who would like to build their own, but dammit, I'm too busy (or lazy) to build my own!
ItsyDK is a powerful programming tool. Check it out!
Never give a link a look that has Don Knotts in it!
Once again DEC leads the market in technology but for some unfathomable reason refuses to sell to customers who are begging to buy. Complete and utter morons.
--
Java banners:
Bad for users because Java kills Netscape
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
so now I can build my own. a dream come true ..... :)
Interestingly enough there is a license agreement attached to the downloading of the specs.
penguinicide... when jumping out a window just won't do.
They're giving away the results of who knows how much $$$ worth of research. This could be useful to a LOT of people. I'm working on a videoconferencing project here, and one of our next goals is wireless handheld video - the Itsy (if it has sufficient performance) could save us a lot of time. Otherwise, we'll have to design a Crusoe-based device. :)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Not a development board
There was a discussion here a while back about options regarding embedded linux solutions. Several gripes came up, including the lack of a filesystem or drivers for flash memory, support for varying CPU clock speed, and a few other details. Look at this. From Itsy's page,
Looks like they've gone to the trouble to write a bunch of these for us. Yay! Now anybody want to look into turning these into a 2.3/2.4 kernel mod?
Quantum mechanics: the dreams that stuff is made of.
Grits is thought of as a southern dish by most other Americans (by southern, I mean those states of the south, which include Louisianna, Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, and quite a few others. Look up info on the Civil War in America, to find out the other traditional "southern" states).
It is made out of coarsly ground corn, mixed with boiling water, and a touch of butter added. It is similar to the ground wheat variety, which over here is made by Nabisco and is called "Cream o' Wheat". Both are considered breakfast cereals. Both are rather "gritty" (in the crunchy texture sense), hence the name.
None of this explains why you would want to pour it down your pants (since the water IS boiling hot) - but, hey, I can't understand the fascination with petrifying Natalie Portman, either...
However, I can understand your confusion. Consider it mutual. Many Americans (myself included) wonder over the Brits fascination with kidney pie, as well as with the various ways of preparing eel (and monkfish!).
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
2.2 CUSTOMER agrees not to distribute the HARDWARE INFORMATION in any form, other than for CUSTOMER's own internal, non-commercial, research purposes.
2.3 CUSTOMER grants to COMPAQ a non-exclusive, royalty-free, world-wide, unrestricted license to sell, duplicate, use, market, sub-license, distribute and create derivative works of DERIVATIVE HARDWARE.
Incidentally, I have designed an embedded system using the SA-1100. It is a really cool chip. It needed no glue-logic at all to work with SRAM, DRAM, LCD, serial, etc. All the timing, delays, etc. are programmable. And JTAG is great if you cannot afford a bazillion dollar ICE.
So the HW license isn't a heartache for me since I wouldn't base my design from theirs anyway, but off my old one instead. As long as the Linux distro they are offering is GPL'd...
-tim
What would the advantages of putting an ARM processor over a Crusoe in a PDA? If the Crusoe can morph any instruction set, wouldn't it be able to run ARM instructions? How would a company benefit from using ARM chips in their PDAs, other than a slight decrease in power consumption?
"I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive." - Stephen Hawking
i liked it better in bold. .dlob ni retteb ti dekil i
I sure hope so. I've been following the SA-110 ever since it was announced, and this is still one great set of CPU chips, even if the Pentiums of the world outclock it.
So when a mammoth PC integrator like Compaq says they researching and giving giving code back to the Open Source Community here, we're talking about a major feather in Linux' cap. Not to mention that when that code is fully vetted and ported to other architectures, the whole community benefits, not just one small (PDA) sector.
Cool, eh?
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
They certainly do: I have used Acorn computers (running on ARM chips) ever since they came out in 1987... very fast for their time.
I bought a Psion Series5 last year, which is very good for certain things, such as essays, diaries and the like. It's not underpowered, and it uses (IIRRC) an ARM7500 at 30MHz. The power usage I get from it is 45mA/h when idling, going up to around 110mAh/h for maximum processing. When the backlight is on, the maximum power throughput is around 200mAh.
Looking at the Itsy numbers, they are a _lot_ higher. How is this research device powered? Even the most highly powered AAs give out 1000-2000mAh. I get a more realistic 1000mAh out of each pair of NiMHs.
Great science, but that sort of processing power is unfeasible, in my view, and impractical for such a small device.
http://blog.grcm.net/
Although they have released some information it is not enough to easily replicate the device. The schematics you get are in postscript - great for printing and staring at, impossible to put into a CAD tool and modify. The board artwork consists of Gerber files, drill files, etc. which show where copper and holes go, but can't be modified either. The lowdown is that with just what they've released and without a lot of independent redesign, you might be able to exactly replicate the Itsy, but you wouldn't be able to produce a modified version. What they've done is the hardware equivalent of handing you a binary without source and with a restrictive license. Not that I think Compaq has done a bad thing: looking at the schematics might be interesting to see what they've done. And the modified Linux should be useful to the community. I just don't think that the hardware information will be as useful as some are imagining. If you want to build a StrongARM board, Intel also supplies complete schematics for their dev kits.
Try these:
. cgi/your-email-address-here/Itsy/ hardware/itsy1-5.tar.gz http://crl.research.compaq.com/downloads/download. cgi/your-email-address-here/Itsy/ hardware/memdc1-5.tar.gz
http://crl.research.compaq.com/downloads/download
Please moderate this posting down, as well as its parent.
-russ
Wish I saw more of that on Slashdot; the above posts have dramatically increased my faith that perhaps I will see more of it...
Thanks, guys.
Tweet, tweet.
Has anyone built one out of the previous 'release' ?
:-)
how difficult is it ?
I find this idea of 'open hardware' really cool, it seems like the logicall next step, after open source software. there are lots of professionals programmers working on OSS , sure there must be lots of professional hardware developers around with too much free time
---
Hi,
If you build it they will come and buy them. Who are they? I am. I'm not an hardware guy but a software guy. You build it I'll buy it and so will many others. When will it be ready? How much will it cost?
Wouldn't it be cool to put in a Crusoe processor instead of the StrongARM?
Itsybitsy out.