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MCSE Revolt Over NT4-W2K Plans

Bloob writes, "It seems that Microsoft, in an apparent attempt at leveraging MCSEs to encourage organizations to upgrade to W2K, is expiring the NT4 certificate very quickly, and offering a dubious upgrade route. Here is an open letter from Keith Weiskamp, CEO of Coriolis, a supporter of MSCEs, with over 2000 comments from MCSEs et. al, and a response from Microsoft. Looks like quite a revolt."

10 of 326 comments (clear)

  1. Yow by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 4
    This is deeply weird. I don't think Microsoft is quite this arrogant, or quite this stupid: anybody could tell them that this is a very dangerous move, particularly if it gets serious press coverage. And yet, they are doing it anyhow.

    Why?

    My guess is this: Microsoft is hurting for money. (oh, stop laughing! I'm serious!) Microsoft depends on the _perception_ that it has so absurdly much money that it can do or buy anything. Lots of that is 'virtual' money, tied up in stock valuation, and there are also concerns about the accounting procedures used at MS, plus they have expanded so much that they've basically lost the 'start-up' energies that they once had. Apple suffered exactly the same fate in the days of never-shipping Copland and all those neat Apple-funded science projects that Jobs basically threw out. Apple nearly died of it, few people saw them as a dominant force strong enough to make their weak finances insignificant.

    In a way it's like Amazon to the Nth power- Amazon doesn't earn money, instead they try to maintain a valuation based on their chances of dominating online bookselling. Microsoft does dominate: does that mean that they earn more than they spend? That's a good question. That is _the_ question to ask as MS continues buying stuff and launching grand huge projects to theoretically maintain their empire. Ask yourself how much, do you think, it cost them to bring Windows Me to its current (dubious) state? For that matter, how much did they spend on the name? Odds are it was some shockingly large sum. The amount of overhead and bureaucracy they have to deal with staggers the mind- _and_ they have piracy to contend with, as in full-on bootleg copying of their wares including all the packaging and stickers, plus the less formal copying that's always been rampant.

    People behave as if Microsoft can't possibly be in financial trouble. I think this is a fallacy- particularly now, with no major product expected but Win2K which itself gets a 'wait and see' rating from the Gartner Group. I don't think it's reasonable to assume they can go blithely on for another year without _seriously_ big profit centers from something major and current- and if they are trying to make this profit center out of MCSEs, they are fscking desperate! I say this is blood in the water, and it's not all MCSE blood.

  2. MCSE ? by DrSpoo · · Score: 4

    Must
    Consult
    Someone
    Experienced

    'nuff said.

    --
    Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
  3. Whiners... by dillon_rinker · · Score: 4

    Disclaimer - I'm working on my MCSE

    MS owns the exams. They will behave capriciously and arbitrarily if they want to. They are the only game in town when it comes to NT certs. Deal with it.

    If you want to do something to Microsoft, then don't support their products. Don't buy their software, their training, or their certifications. In a politely worded letter, let Microsoft know the reason for your decision. Describe specific situations where you have steered clients away from MS and to a competing solution (MS would fit this category). Don't offer to change your mind.

    Don't be so naive as to think that an open letter will have any more effect on Microsoft than it would on the U.S. Marines ("Dear General, We think killing is bad..."). MS (the masters of marketing and perception) knew exactly what its MCPs would think of its policies, so congratulations to those who confirmed what market researchers told MS ages ago...

  4. Re:Whiny little punks! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4

    > Hopefully Microsoft's new program will limit the certification to those that truly understand the material

    Where?s the profit in that?

    You might as well ask them to produce fewer software products so that they can ensure that the rest is top quality stuff.

    --

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  5. MCSE certification meaning by onyxruby · · Score: 4
    I find it amusing how many people on Slashdot rip on MCSE's. I wonder how many of these people could pass just the Networking Essentails test. Just because someone has taken the time and expense to earn a certification in the biggest players product does not mean that person endorses, or particulary even likes the product. That many slashdotters make the correlation that MCSE = easy to get is laughable. If that was the case you could hire one at $7.50 an hour.

    The other thing that I find amusing is that if you have certifications from certain other vendors such as SUN, Novell, or Banyon Vines, you don't have to take as many certification tests to obtain the MCSE. That is because they (their competition) are aware of just what it takes to get the certification. This also works in reverse. The reality of the IT environment is that you are going to run into MS products. Wither or not you like their products or business practices is really not relevant. It's no different than learning Cisco if you want to get into WAN's and routers.

    Save the flames, I have and am learning to use Linux.

    1. Re:MCSE certification meaning by BrianH · · Score: 5

      This is exactly why I wont be renewing my MCSE certs. The reputation of MCSE's is so low, that it is completely worthless for me to own. How worthless? Well, I don't even list it on my resume! I have found that if I walk into an IT department and identify myself as an MCSE, every eye in the room will roll at me...but if I identify my Cisco and Sun certifications, my skills aren't doubted. Why should I, or anyone else, hold a certification that reduces our credibility? We shouldn't, and I wont.

      Something else many MCSE's don't even realize is the number of rights they give up when getting the certification. A couple years ago I was working at a large company which was preparing to upgrade their obsolete WFW/Netware workstations and upgrade the operating software. Because this was a "really big" sale, a MS rep came out to help the company with licensing and deployment issues. In our first meeting the rep asked how we were planning on setting everything up. We explained to him that we were planning on running NT4 Workstation desktops, NT4 server domain controllers, and Solaris based application and database servers. The MS rep asked why we were going to run Solaris and, in front of the company VP, the entire IT staff, and most of the company's high ranking suits, I informed him that our company needed to minimize downtime and that Windows NT simply wasn't reliable enough to base the operations of 6000 employees on. The rep, stunned, just looked at me and asked "But aren't you an MCSE?" I said yes and two weeks later I received a letter from Microsoft stating that my certifications were going to be revoked. When I called Microsoft to vent I was ever so politely informed that "the entire purpose of the MCSE program is to promote the distribution of Microsoft products. If you aren't willing to promote our software, we don't need you". When I pointed out that, of 6500 individual machines, all but ~30 were running NT I was informed that it didn't matter...I was to promote Microsoft only.

      Ultimately my certification was saved by my employer. When the company VP heard about my sitation he contacted our MS rep and canceled the entire order! He told the MS sales rep that he wasn't going to allow the company to buy from them if they were going to persecute me for thinking of my employer before Microsoft. MS backed off after that, I kept my cert, and the company bought the software. Still, it goes to show just how underhanded and profit motivated they can be.

      I just wish more MCSE's would "get it". MS is not your friend, and you only soil yourself by associating with them. The MCSE is the lowest regarded administrator certification in the industry, not a badge of honor. Stop selling your reputations for BillyG's profit!

      --

      There is nothing so pathetic as seeing a beautiful young theory roughed up by a tough gang of facts.
    2. Re:MCSE certification meaning by coyote-san · · Score: 5

      For political reasons, I considered getting a MSCE about a year ago. In the course of that, I read a substantial amount of the O'Reilly books (which I highly recommend) and agreed with the claims that:

      - about 1/3 of the MSCE is stuff that would usually be handled by technicians in any real "engineering" discipline. We still need to know about limitations on cable lengths and the like, but knowing that makes you a "network engineer" no more than being able to change the oil in your car makes you a "engine engineer" ready for an exciting new career in Detroit or Seattle (Boeing).

      - about 1/3 of the exam is unabashed MS advertising. Microsoft not only has the best protocols, they're the fastest and they'll even find you a date for Saturday. Use the outdated, flawed protocols used by Unix, Novell, Apple, or others and you'll be shunned by friends, rejected by lovers, and have your car repossessed.

      - the rest of the exam actually contains "useful" information. Use this screen to change this value. Use that screen to change the other value. And remember to reboot the system every time you modify your system. Again, I was left with the feeling that the guy in those late-night ads who is thrilled by the CAD system somehow thinks it makes him qualified to design skyscrapers, mile-long suspension bridges, etc.

      The O'Reilly MSCE books *are* good references for using Windows systems, but only because I already have a good grasp of the concepts. But the idea that anyone could demonstrate any skill beyond "technician" via that exam is a sick joke.

      --
      For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  6. Sleeping with the Enemy by argoff · · Score: 4

    notice that the people who are most likely to get screwed by MS are always the ones who are closest to them, busisness wise or professionally. Perhaps they would consider changing their often snide attitude toward Linux, and the Linux community and quit trying to shove MS down our throat. This really isn't about MS at all, it's about this attitude that people have that if you just stick with the status-quo corporate America they'll take care of you and everything will be ok......

  7. Protesting is the booby prize by rickmoen · · Score: 5

    It's not a revolt if all people are doing is complaining. To the contrary: People tend to complain instead of taking corrective action, as many classic studies have amply demonstrated.

    Dear MCSEs who are following this story: Watch closely, and you'll notice that you're being given the opportunity to vent your frustration, to give "input", to register your protest voice. That is how the game is played: You're presented with a fait accompli, and then given an opportunity to make futile, powerless gestures all about how annoyed you are.

    This is one of life's intelligence tests. The way you pass is by declining the opportunity to protest, and instead act to fix the underlying situation. Or, be honest with yourself and admit that you're going to cave in. But don't waste your time protesting.

    Consider how you came to be in this bind, and you'll see you've slowly moved into a certification relationship that's not working. Your best move is to say "No thanks": The only way to win this game is not to play.

    When Redmond is done saying it's considered "your thoughts and concerns", has finished "helping you understand", and has ceased portraying your anger as "confusion", just ponder whether you will ever want to be in a position to be conned by these people again. There are healthy business relationships to be found, and good people to work with. Your first step towards finding them will be to say "Thanks, I'll get back to you", and start looking elsewhere.

    Either that, or admit that you're dependent on Microsoft, and, as a business decision, will do what you're told. That's your decision to make -- but there's no need to kid yourself about the supposed value of protest, on your way to that course of action.

    -- Rick Moen
    rick@linuxmafia.com
  8. Look out! by codemonkey_uk · · Score: 5

    The Microsoft Certified Software Engineers are revolting!

    revolting
    adj.

    Causing abhorrence or disgust.

    revolt
    v. revolted, revolting, revolts.
    v. intr.

    To attempt to overthrow the authority of the state; rebel.
    He he he he he he
    Thad
    --

    Thad