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Gnutella v.56 Out?
GnutellaFanBoy writes "If you said Gnutella is dead gnutella.nerdherd.net would like to tell you otherwise. Currently a version .56 is available for download. If your wondering who is still developing gnutella, read this excerpt from their FAQ:
In the interest of protecting those involved, it can only be said that these versions are being produced by someone with access to the source code. No, of course they're not official in the gnullsoft sense, but let's just say that they're legitimate. I would certainly expect more versions, since we've already seen several materialize.
Also of intrest is the protocol specs are out, and people are working on *nix ports. "
Unless you are already working on a clone, probably not. There are already a heap of clones under development. Take a look here.
There is a gnutella chat forum at gnutella.nerdherd.net/phorum, and there is a section there for making feature requests too. I think the clone developers probably keep an eye on these.
For anything else gnutella based, you can probably find the answer somewhere on gnutella.nerdherd.net. Just browse around the site a bit.
BTW, .56 has been out for three or four days now. You need to speed up that back end processing Slashdot ;)
Yes, but do they have throttling implemented yet? So far I've tried getting on and in the span of a minute had 15 people downloading from me. I would like to keep at least *some* of my bandwidth.
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
It's not your fault, but you've been seduced by the same "Shakespeare philosophy" that most everyone in the world has: that the people who make the best "art" are the ones either doing it for the money or making a lot of money from it. While it was for the Bard, in almost all cases this is just not true. What follows is pure judgement, but I've found that most of the things played on the radio, MTV, and recieving Grammies, blows. I don't know if I'm growing up, or what, but it seems like music has gotten just horrible in the past few years, especially w/r/t hiphop & "alternative" (whatever that is). Conversely, most of the music I listen to and actually enjoy is from rather obscure bands that no one has heard of.
I'm not trying to be a too-good-for-the-mainstream elitist when I say this, but rather to prove a point: the best artists usually, nay, almost always, aren't making a ton of money. Look no further than the Billboard charts to see what I mean: both the Backstreet Boys & N'Sync, who literally have no - no - artistic talent (they were assembled, don't write their own songs, don't create their own dance routines, or even their own dance styles (we have Michael Jackson to thank for that), really can't sing, etc.) are raking in millions of dollars right now. Same with Ms. Spears and all the rest. I'm not saying everyone in big-time music is a sellout, but the first people to cry foul when MP3s cut palpably into their record sales would be the aforementioned.
In relation to what you said, namely "If creators of content stop making money, they stop making content," well, this is wrong. You make the flawed assumption that CD sales would simply dry up like a well, when in reality it has been shown again and again (anecdotally) that people who download MP3s find themselves buying more CDs. Hell, with all the progress MP3s made last year, Napster, Lycos creating an MP3 search, more bandwidth, CD sales still rose 10%. People want the convenience of a CD, or whatever will succeed them, and very very few people know or have the motivation to convert their MP3s to WAVs and burn them in comparison to how many are buying CDs as a whole.
Without even getting into the issues of concerts and merchandise sales, I'd conjecture that it will always be possible for an artist to make money, even without "a new paradigm". But let's assume you are right for a moment; CD sales drop drastically and the business becomes a lot less lucrative - is this really a bad thing? I don't think so. The first people to cry foul at such a situation would be people who only care about the money - vis. the Spears, Simpsons, and N'Sync's of the world. And as I said above, I think they suck. That's my opinion, but it's also a lot of other ppl's. I hear it all the time.
Artistry is a labor of love, not money, and history supports me. I'm hard pressed to think of a truly prolific (thus, talented) artist who was motivated purely by cash, fame, or legacy. Hawthorne, Van Goch, Beethoven, Hemingway, Hendrix, even the Beatles, in the end - more or less, none of them gave a fuck. The artists who would throw in the towel simply because a certain portion of their sales? Maybe they should find a new job, because I have yet to find one who is worth listening to anyways. Nail me all you want for the "small artist" just trying to eek out a living, but remember I'm assuming that CDs won't ever be phased out in favor of pirated MP3s, and I think I'm right. Me may reach a point (probably will) where a critical mass of people have the technical know and sufficient motivation to will this into a reality. But that takes time, and in that time will come new formats with more piracy protection, and the pendulum will swing back towards the record companies as audio piracy again becomes an obscure little hobby taken up by techies and poor, smart college kids.
It will always be possible for talented people to make money showcasing their work, simply because a lot of people are willing to pay to appreciate talent - if you've ever spent a couple hundred bucks on front row seats for a Lakers game or tennis match, you know what I'm about. People will not pay for talent, and if your work consists or two or three marginally catchy radio singles and twelve turkey songs with little replay value, then MP3 will kill you, because people will get the same satisfaction from MP3 that they might from your CD (get who I'm talking about? hint - already mentioned them twice). For anyone that is worthwhile to listen to, that produces intersting, I say you have nothing to worry about.
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I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
I recommend people take a look at the projects listed at http://www.cypherspace.org/links.html and http://freenet.sourceforge.net/.
There are several open source projects already trying to develop cryptographically secure, robust, distributed file storage and web services. Why not try to help out with those?
Keeping it simple is generally good, but I think Gnutella is keeping it too simple.
I have some pages on Gnutella and it's clones as well, with a PHP search engine, relatively recent list of working hosts and so forth myself.
Hey, I put (flame in the tag).
..
..because..? {emphasis mine})
...chuckle...)
.sig, which you also don't understand.
And what exactly was your argument again, oh yeah
Frankly, I don't necessarily see why there should be any defined expiration of the copyright.
and you we're saying?
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o.k. flames aside (for now).
I am defending the public perception of the people who code gnutella. If you are one of them, why are you doing this? I'm not, probably won't be. I did buy a CVS book this weekend, so we'll see. These people are doing this because they want too. The only things they need from you are praise, hopes, and bug reports. And cash when they sell it. This shit you can shove back up your ass.
Your original flames against the people building the program..
"GnutellaNet sure seems to be collapsing under it's own weight" (takes notice)
"It's been over a week since I've had anything successfully download." (then move on, slowpoke)
"I have been running it, but am quickly starting to realize that there isn't much point to it, anymore" (so go away)
"once people leech the stuff" (what?!)
"thus reducing the potential load on my machine" (would that be the load of all the developement tools?)
"I know that the pages about the program, claim that it's a tool for filesharing. But be realistic. " (yes, maybe we should)
"There are a million easier ways to share files, that are far more reliable. " (And you're not using them
"I'll email it to him. " (good, you do that. (power building {he's at 150K, Cap'n!))
"Or I'll toss it onto something like FilesAnywhere. " (so you won't even link for me, eh?)
"The only reason that I can think of, that people love stuff like this, is it's so much more anonymous than even an FTP site." (true, perhaps SSN's would be better as logins, twit (wonders if it's worth it {250K, I'm gettin' out of here, Cap'n})
"On Gnutella, et al, nobody has to identify themselves at all." (some would call it freedom)
"Just as a minor point, some cable systems use DHCP, and apparently PacBell DSL is starting to use it as well." (so minor as to be matched only by your usefulness)
and then the kickers.
"------ Count me grateful to MS. If they make it too easy to use, I'll have to get a real job."
(insult everyone who thinks for a living, a weak joke perhaps,
"I work with NT on a daily basis, because that's what the world uses. But it's just a tool."
It's a tool, and so are you. So when I said you were an "idiot", I wasn't joking. Idiots abound in this thing we call the Net. It is my duty to help point out to other would-be idiots, what one looks like, and how, precisely, they should be treated.
Did I say *idiot*, I meant complete fuckin' idiot, the kind of idiot that drools about lickin' grandma. The kind of shit-slurping dumbass that defends known felons. Didn't realize that, about your precious NT. Not only are they sick fuckin' thievin' bastards up there in Redmond, they're convicted criminals. And they still advertise on fuckin'TV DURING THE BIGGEST FUCKING COLLEGE BASKETBALL GAME OF THE YEAR!. So contortitionists like you can suck themselves off to that oh'so' grooovy beat. Fuck you and the bits you rode in on. Unicorn, your a thorn in my fine crusty ass, the only mythical thing about you is your intelligence and grasp of reality, find another virgin and maybe you can join the rest of us. The ones who don't take it up the ass all day and like it, begging for more, harder, bigger. How did you get around mommy's protection lock anyway? Aren't the Teletubbies on! Ohh, Inky-dinky-winky, he's my faavorite!.
Q:Smarter, better, nicer
A:All words I'd rather give to pile of whale dung that just raped my sister, shot my dog in the head, and got its MCSE, than to you.
Now, if you weren't such an idiot, you would realize...(continued)
..and that's all I got to say about that, 'cept for the
(aaaaahhh)
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+&x
Seriously... THis thing just encourages software/mp3 piracy.. it makes it so easy that every little -joe-suburban-14-year-old-retard can now leech their very own copy of a Matrix Rip.
It has the the potential to take the warez/piracy scene from it's quasi-underground status (IRC, FTP's, some web sites) and shove it down anyones throat that wants anything.
PLus I'm more than a bit disturbed that I kept on seeing many many many searches for "britney spears naked" showing up on my search monitor..
Sheesh.. damn kids today... frickin' raging perverts/warez jockeys, thats all they are...
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And that's my crappy opinion
I don't spell check
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http://thepoliticalgeek.com/blog/ Politics for Geeks.
You make a very good point about people not sharing their stuff, but these problems can be fixed by changing the Gnutella protocol, so lets talk about the possible fixes.
First, you can just limit how much of your bandwidth Gnutella allows people to use. Second, you can install systems which figure out which sever containing the file has the shortest ping times (they may do this now). Third, you can install a referal system where your system refuses to send a file to anyone within a day/week of sending it to someone (unless there is some local high bandwidth execption from the second category). Machine A would remember that machine B downloaded a file recently and tell machine C who now wants the file to go get the file from machine B. If B dose not have it then his IP address is blacklisted from A and C for a period of time. You could construct a "reputation system" to handle changing IP addresses if you wanted, but that would be more copmplex (and you probable do not want dialup people using Gnutella anyway). Fourth, you can market Gnutella cache servers for ISPS and colalges (note: the 3rd option might force these servers to let the whole internet use them).
Actually, the 3rd solution might make static IPs a bigger selling point for ISP, which is a very good thing. (If you live in a dynamic IP pool then there may be someone getting all the IPs blacklisted by leeching)
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
This project was not stopped on the basis of legal grounds. It was stopped because AOL was afraid Time Warner would throw a hissy-fit when it learned that AOL programmers created a decentralized file sharing system that can potentially be used to pirate media.
The fact is, I've read nothing that indicates this protocol or its implementation (through gnutella or any other system) is inherently illegal.
I was wondering if anyone still has or will be implimenting leech servers. It is extremely nice in a settting where one cannot modify the installed program base. However I don't think that this is something that people like very much.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
According to the FAQ, this program is "a tool for general peer-to-peer file-sharing" that does not need the Wrapster archiver. "It can be used to share spreadsheets, source code, design documents, really any file on your computer," meaning it could provide a distributed system for sharing files, so that mirrors of popular free software projects don't get Slash-DoS'd as easily.
Will I retire or break 10K?
0.56 was out a couple days ago. My timestamp on the installer file from the initital download is 12:34 on March 30, and I don't even know when it actually became available. Actually, I've seen 3 new versions in the last two weeks or so now--development seems to be speeding right along. It is getting a lot more stable quite quickly, though. The one three versions back loved to BSOD on me on a fairly regular basis.
Their isn't they're or there; just as a burrow isn't a burro... know your ass from a hole in the ground
Well, it could be, but not always.
When a gnutellaNET search query goes out, it is not transmitted 'peer to peer', ie, directly from you to each of the 2000 other servants. It is routed through gnutellaNET from host to host.
If gnutellaNET is a peer to peer network, so is the internet.
When will this someone make the code available? If the source is not supposed to be out there, floating around, you would think that it benefit from being distributed. Stick it on a few anonymous servers, have a bunch of people archive it on their harddrives, and then eventually, distribute it on via gnutella.
Cthulhu for President!
(darren)
Unfortunately, there are still WAY too many problems with Gnutella.
CSG_SurferDude
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
It's not very scalable. I don't know what the limitis, I haven't looked at it that hard, but I know that the network will most likely collapse under itself if currently implemented in its current state.
Example:
With 2500 hosts person A connects up to the network, that person sends an INIT broadcast message to the host he's immediately connected to, person B. Person B sends it out to everyone else he's connected to, etc. Then the replies start coming back, single-cast, to person A from 2500 other nodes (or possibly less, due to TTL). Searches happen the same way, except this time with more data.
A couple of problems I see: 1) with more hosts, the number of ping messages sent and the number of ping replies sent will grow (linearly, I think). 2) With an average TTL of 7 it is possible that one node may not be able to reach a segment of the network (any other node that's 8 or more hops away).
The protocol needs to be modified so that there are other ways of getting host information. Maybe a master browser or two. Someone can decide, or be elected a master browser. That client collects a number of hosts, and should a new host connect they can choose to ping the entire network, or talk to the master browser.
Another thing is that it really isn't necessary, as far as I can tell, to ping the entire network to see who's there, other than to possibly get additional hosts to connect to. That could be gotten in much better way. Gnutella has a list of other hosts, why can't it send those to each new person that's connected, rather than them creating a small flurry of activity on the network?
There are other issues that I've run across while developing my gnutella irc bot (gnurd - "/msg gnurd !help" on efnet). I think the developers will work out something, intelligent routing, etc. But in my opinion large changes to the protocol would have to be made to scale up past 10k people or so.
Maybe it's just me, but the GnutellaNet sure seems to be collapsing under it's own weight, and user's greed. I have been running it, but am quickly starting to realize that there isn't much point to it, anymore. It's been over a week since I've had anything successfully download. And over the weekend, at least half a dozen people grabbed a huge mpg off my system, how many copies of it are now available for grabbing - 1. Nice to see that once people leech the stuff, they have no intention of sharing it back out, thus reducing the potential load on my machine.
And last but not least, what's the point anyhow. I know that the pages about the program, claim that it's a tool for filesharing. But be realistic. There are a million easier ways to share files, that are far more reliable. If I have a file to share with a bud, I'll email it to him. Not tell him to log into Gnutella, and grab it. Or I'll toss it onto something like FilesAnywhere. The only reason that I can think of, that people love stuff like this, is it's so much more anonymous than even an FTP site. After all, someone has to be a designated contact for a domain name. On Gnutella, et al, nobody has to identify themselves at all.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
...Actually, the protocol specs are at http://capnbry.dyndns.org/gnutella /protocol.html
darren
Cthulhu for President!
(darren)
I wonder how the FSF feels about the GNU name being to promote a piece of software whose authors allege they won't give out its source code until the 1.0 release is done, which now looks exceedingly unlikely ever to happen?
I wonder why Slashdot keeps talking about this software as if it were open source and GNU-happy, when it's not, and may never be?
I wonder if this community is really as strict about its beliefs as it would like to believe, or if it has degraded, as I've long been suspecting, into a what-can-I-get-for-free-as-in-beer crew, just a tiny step above warez d00ds in the ecological chain?
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